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first12
Photographer
DG at studio47
Posts: 2,362
East Ridge, Tennessee, US


If anyone makes an appointment with anyone else and fails to keep the appointment without some type of communication, its simply proof of their lack of professionalism, courtesy, ethics, motivation, maturity, etc., etc., etc. Whatever you call it, it stinks. we have all experienced it. ALL of us at one point or another. Just grow a spine, mark the person off and move on. its part of dealing with the public at large. final answer.
May 16 13 11:52 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Nathine
Posts: 144
Scottsdale, Arizona, US


EdBPhotography wrote:
Sooooo...these are reasons why you won't show up to a shoot with other photographers???  As in; "that last photographer who contacted me for a shoot never got back to me or scheduled anything.  Therefore, I'm not gonna' show up the next time some photographer sets up a shoot with me, because he might be just as unreliable as that last guy."

That doesn't sound reasonable, it just sounds like something a flake would say.  If you don't show up for a shoot, regardless if you're the model or the photographer, you're still a flake.  No one cares what your reason for it is.

I have always showed up to a shoot, sometimes to the extreme, with travel.
I assume that the girl who related that to me, had no confirmation of the shoot. It can be embarrassing to show up, "where nobody knows your name"

I am here representing some models, who asked me to speak on their behalf. Seems I am sort of a Danielle in the lions den.

As such I am representing a feeling an opinion of a group, who are trying to express their frustration with the shooters, and after a while, they also start the excuse factory going. Obviously there are good and bad on both sides.

Nathine

May 16 13 11:54 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Big A-Larger Than Life
Posts: 33,400
The Woodlands, Texas, US


Nathine wrote:
Same definition as yours. Luckily I make a living with LA and Eastern shoots. Beginning to wonder about AZ at times. Same things happens with plumbers, and repair men.

I can understand paid, and reschedule, The key operative is reschedule. Courtesy in the industry is of utmost importance, as with any industry, although I know there is always a new batch of incoming, every week.

I like to keep busy, like what I do, and hate down time. Since the economic collapse, big shoots have changed, one photographer, three clothing lines, and in some cases 1/2 to 1/3 the usual paycheck. Of course less on the hourly, studio time, and assorted para help. (Basically becoming similar to work hours just under full time, so no benefits, etc). The real high price ones, are still the same, with exceptionally long hours for a directed scripted pose.

Nathine

Huh?

May 16 13 12:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Nathine
Posts: 144
Scottsdale, Arizona, US


Big A-Larger Than Life wrote:
Huh?

Please be more elaborate smile

May 16 13 12:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Big A-Larger Than Life
Posts: 33,400
The Woodlands, Texas, US


ontherocks wrote:
how about this one: "me and my boyfriend rescued some baby nutria this morning and he took off to play golf and left me to care for them" that one was so out there i believed it was true.


HAHAHAHAHAHA!

May 16 13 12:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Big A-Larger Than Life
Posts: 33,400
The Woodlands, Texas, US


Nathine wrote:
Right. No not a photographer, now some tricks in setups for optical illusions that I was taught on the fly. Know how to do scripted sets, done many. Don't know an F stop from an ISA or shutter speed.

Just getting carried away.

Nathine

Hella random....

May 16 13 12:06 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
GPS Studio Services
Posts: 34,669
San Francisco, California, US


I stopped trying to figure these things out.  I had a model scheduled to come up today from LA.  I had bought her ticket, made all the arrangements, etc, etc, etc.  She had spoken to references who had been here before and was happy as a clam.  We talked on the phone and she was excited every time we chatted.

When finalizing plans yesterday for picket up the station, etc, she suddenly went silent.  She hasn't replied to a phone call or text message and she didn't get onto the bus.  I am totally in the dark.

So, oh well.  I will never understand these things and I just move onto the next model.  Life goes on.  There is no formula and no way to predict.  I just make a point of not letting it drive me crazy.  Oh well.

My advice is to spend less time worrying about the ones who don't show and concentrate on the ones who do.
May 16 13 12:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Innovative Imagery
Posts: 2,815
Los Angeles, California, US


Diane Diederich  wrote:
Man. I am so sick of these threads that pit models against photographers, like they were sides in a war. There are flakey people of all stripes who do inconsiderate things...get over it...it's part of the biz.

In fairness to those who make these types of posts, I have to mention that MM is a very different experience.

After 32 years of people making and showing up for appointments, returning calls and emails, to come here and find a huge percentage the opposite is quite the culture shock !

I am thinking that they just are so gobsmacked that they need to reach out.  If we just had one person give one quick, polite response, then these threads would die and wouldn't run on for page after page.

May 16 13 12:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Nathine
Posts: 144
Scottsdale, Arizona, US


GPS Studio Services wrote:
I stopped trying to figure these things out.  I had a model scheduled to come up today from LA.  I had bought her ticket, made all the arrangements, etc, etc, etc.  She had spoken to references who had been here before and was happy as a clam.  We talked on the phone and she was excited every time we chatted.

When finalizing plans yesterday for picket up the station, etc, she suddenly went silent.  She hasn't replied to a phone call or text message and she didn't get onto the bus.  I am totally in the dark.

So, oh well.  I will never understand these things and I just move onto the next model.  Life goes on.  There is no formula and no way to predict.  I just make a point of not letting it drive me crazy.  Oh well.

My advice is to spend less time worrying about the ones who don't show and concentrate on the ones who do.

Now that I don't understand. If communication was good, expenses paid I would feel obligated to do the shoot. If I say I am going to be there, I am going to be there, come Hell or High Water. (Did one of those hell in high water shoots)

Nathine

May 16 13 12:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Big A-Larger Than Life
Posts: 33,400
The Woodlands, Texas, US


Nathine wrote:

Now that I don't understand. If communication was good, expenses paid I would feel obligated to do the shoot. If I say I am going to be there, I am going to be there, come Hell or High Water. (Did one of those hell in high water shoots)

Nathine

You did them both at the same time?

May 16 13 12:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MN Photography
Posts: 964
Chicago, Illinois, US


As far as I can tell, the top fives reasons that models no-show (not cancel, but no-show) are:

1) I wasn't feeling it.

2) Something better came along.

3) My friends told me not to do it.

4) Hung over from the night before.

5) Still drunk from the night before.
May 16 13 12:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


MN Photography wrote:
As far as I can tell, the top fives reasons that models no-show (not cancel, but no-show) are:

1) I wasn't feeling it.

2) Something better came along.

3) My friends told me not to do it.

4) Hung over from the night before.

5) Still drunk from the night before.

6) Oh, wait. The shoot was today? I didn't know.

May 16 13 12:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Nathine
Posts: 144
Scottsdale, Arizona, US


Big A-Larger Than Life wrote:
You did them both at the same time?

During one of our flood seasons here. Said I'd do the shoot, didn't expect it to be hanging from a helicopter rope over a stranded car driver. The shot concept had changed drastically. I will do action shoots, but this one was something again. But I did say I would do it. so....

Nathine

May 16 13 01:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Big A-Larger Than Life
Posts: 33,400
The Woodlands, Texas, US


Nathine wrote:

During one of our flood seasons here. Said I'd do the shoot, didn't expect it to be hanging from a helicopter rope over a stranded car driver. The shot concept had changed drastically. I will do action shoots, but this one was something again. But I did say I would do it. so....

Nathine

Brahahaha.  Hanging over cars I dunno.  I'd maybe flake.

May 16 13 01:02 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
GPS Studio Services
Posts: 34,669
San Francisco, California, US


GPS Studio Services wrote:
I stopped trying to figure these things out.  I had a model scheduled to come up today from LA.  I had bought her ticket, made all the arrangements, etc, etc, etc.  She had spoken to references who had been here before and was happy as a clam.  We talked on the phone and she was excited every time we chatted.

When finalizing plans yesterday for picket up the station, etc, she suddenly went silent.  She hasn't replied to a phone call or text message and she didn't get onto the bus.  I am totally in the dark.

So, oh well.  I will never understand these things and I just move onto the next model.  Life goes on.  There is no formula and no way to predict.  I just make a point of not letting it drive me crazy.  Oh well.

My advice is to spend less time worrying about the ones who don't show and concentrate on the ones who do.
Nathine wrote:
Now that I don't understand. If communication was good, expenses paid I would feel obligated to do the shoot. If I say I am going to be there, I am going to be there, come Hell or High Water. (Did one of those hell in high water shoots)

Nathine

For the record, it wasn't a TF shoot.  The model walked way from about $1,000. 

I will never understand.

May 16 13 01:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Nathine
Posts: 144
Scottsdale, Arizona, US


Orca Bay Images wrote:
6) Oh, wait. The shoot was today? I didn't know.

Had one of those with a support model for a shoot. The whole production team just sat around waiting. I'm dressed, and getting hot, can't take off the outfit and waiting..., They finally reached her, brings her kids to the shoot, and she acts like nothing happened.

Nathine

May 16 13 01:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Nathine
Posts: 144
Scottsdale, Arizona, US


GPS Studio Services wrote:
For the record, it wasn't a TF shoot.  The model walked way from about $1,000. 

I will never understand.

I will show for a TF shoot if I say I am coming. I make a good living at modeling, but I like what I do, and down time is boring. So once committed I'm there.

Nathine

May 16 13 01:06 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 5,930
New York, New York, US


Whaddaya think? If we'd all put as much effort into not flaking as we do into dreaming up excuses for flaking, would flaking still exist?

My observation has been that the people who show up rarely have a laundry list of reasons for not showing up whereas the people who have a whole list of reasons for flaking seem to be the ones who don't show up..

Just a thought.
May 16 13 01:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Nathine
Posts: 144
Scottsdale, Arizona, US


Rays Fine Art wrote:
Whaddaya think? If we'd all put as much effort into not flaking as we do into dreaming up excuses for flaking, would flaking still exist?

My observation has been that the people who show up rarely have a laundry list of reasons for not showing up whereas the people who have a whole list of reasons for flaking seem to be the ones who don't show up..

Just a thought.

True

May 16 13 01:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
The Original Sin
Posts: 13,894
Louisville, Kentucky, US


Nathine wrote:

True

Ironic.

How's Viera and Pavel?

May 16 13 02:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Film/TV Producer
Forrest Media
Posts: 12
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


Andrew Koenig wrote:
There are only two possible reasons to fail to show up for a shoot[snip]:

1) A genuine emergency, such as an auto accident, a mugging, a heart attack, etc.

2) The model never wants to have anything to do with that photographer again but is unwilling actually to come out and say so.

#1 is valid (and even then you owe a phone call to the other party).  I can't credit #2-- anyone who wants to have a career needs to be able to tell someone that they don't wish to work with them.  Failing that, they should at least learn to lie 10 days in advance about why they won't be at the scheduled shoot.

May 16 13 03:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Film/TV Producer
Forrest Media
Posts: 12
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


A list of acceptable lies to get out of being on a shoot, all given by voicemail AND email 10-30 days before the scheduled shoot, listed in order from best lie to worst:

-"I'm very sorry, but I've been booked for a high-paying gig for a solid week and need the money."
-"I'm very sorry, but my parent/sibling/kid is dreadfully ill and in the hospital and will need constant care for quite some time."
-"I'm very sorry, but I've been in a bad accident that has limited my ability to perform until I'm done with rehab."
-"I'm very sorry, but I've accepted a full-time staff position at an agency and have to cancel all my freelance shoots."
-"I'm very sorry, but I'm moving out of town.  I should have told you that was a possibility when we scheduled the shoot and I apologize for not doing so."
May 16 13 03:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
glumpy
Posts: 516
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Nathine wrote:
Why models don't show to a shoot.

1. Perhaps its the photographer initial contact - Great looks, let's talk on collaboration. Never heard from again.

2. Date set for meeting or shoot, last minute cancellation.

3. Response from photographer when contacted - Who are you again?

4. Response from photographer - other things have come up, get back to you (translation - someone hotter than you has just contacted me. Leer.)

5. Casting call no nudity, contact from photographer, can you send me some nude photos.

6. I'm sure other models have a lot more to add.

Come on people, let's have some cooperation and commitments. or can that only be expected from the big guys back east?

Nathine

The part I find most disturbing in your post is that you are a " Mature" person by modeling standards yet you are still prepared to present ( represent) these excuses as being creditable.  Wether or not came up with them is irrelevant, the mere fact that you would present them supposedly on behalf of other models without telling them they are a crock of Shite says something disturbing right there.

As unacceptable as it is for a 18 yo to think there is any validity in any of these crap excuses, for someone that a person would normally think would have had a chance through the fullness of time to know better to  present then try to defend them really says a lot about the attitudes  of some models and why internet modeling is such a cesspit and waste of time for anyone half serious.

Furthermore your attitude seems to be that because tradesman don't turn up or cancel at the last minute and shooters have given you some clearly unacceptable excuses, that makes it OK for models to do the same.

I don't have ANY of the problems with people I approach on the street that I have had with so called " models" from the internet. I have often wondered how the fk the attitude changes and brains, common courtesy and decency fly out the window when girls sign up on sites like this to be a model.

It's like they now think they are above and beyond everyone else and they are entitled to muck people around and act like self centred primma donna's and everyone should accept that without complaint.

May 16 13 03:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kelleth
Posts: 2,504
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


None of the reasons listed in the OP are legitimate reasons for flaking. If you drove your car off a cliff by mistake then maybe...but short of that, don't commit to what you don't want to commit to. And if an emergency comes up, CALL!
May 16 13 04:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BrooklynHill
Posts: 4,790
Los Angeles, California, US


If they don't show up without notice, there is no reason good enough.
May 16 13 06:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdBPhotography
Posts: 7,679
Torrance, California, US


Nathine wrote:
I have always showed up to a shoot, sometimes to the extreme, with travel.
I assume that the girl who related that to me, had no confirmation of the shoot. It can be embarrassing to show up, "where nobody knows your name"

I am here representing some models, who asked me to speak on their behalf. Seems I am sort of a Danielle in the lions den.

As such I am representing a feeling an opinion of a group, who are trying to express their frustration with the shooters, and after a while, they also start the excuse factory going. Obviously there are good and bad on both sides.

Nathine

I don't care who's giving these excuses for why they don't show up to a shoot. If someone's logic behind flaking is because other people have not followed through on setting up shoots with them (or any other reason you listed), then they're still flakes.  In essence, they're inconveniencing OTHER people, because someone else hurt their "feel bads".  That's bullshit.

I have models contact me all the time asking to shoot.  Sometimes they communicate after I respond and we finalize a date.  Other times, I respond and ask when they're available to shoot, but never hear from them again.  I don't hold it against them or anyone else, because it's likely they weren't THAT SERIOUS about shooting in the first place.  I've also had models cancel a TF shoot with me for a paid gig.  I'm not gonna' hold that against them either, if they contact me well ahead of time.  Hell, I'd do the same thing.  And if I choose to go with a model who has a better look; that's also my prerogative. 

Saying models flake because of negligent behavior from photographers is just as much of a flake excuse as grandma dying for the eighth time this year.  If a model is serious about wanting to shoot, she'll keep looking to shoot regardless of how many other people close their door on her.  We as photographers do the same thing.

In fact, I just came home from a shoot with a model whose scheduled photographer flaked on her.  She posted an announcement on the main page here saying she still wanted to shoot.  She was nearby, so I contacted her and we met up.  Had a great shoot too.  So, his loss was my gain.  THAT is what a dedicated person does...they don't give up and find another way to make the best use of their time.

May 16 13 08:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
AnnieS
Posts: 34
Bountiful, Utah, US


I have had to cancel shoots before but I give plenty of notice.  I had a shoot lined up for this Saturday and I had to cancel yesterday as on a shoot we ran into some trouble and our front and rear windows of our car got totally smashed in. I just don't have any money to go and get it fixed before Saturday, so no transportation.  I always reschedule. 

Another time I had to cancel a week before as my insomnia and depression got bad and I knew that my sleep would just not be fixed in that time frame and I would have been so exhausted the shoot would have just not worked, we rescheduled.

I have had photographers cancel on me too, some had double booked by mistake again we rescheduled and also family turning up at last minute so we couldn't shoot on that day.

If something ever causes me to have to cancel I either call if I have their number or send a message of apology and ask about other dates that we can shoot.   There has never been any problems, in life shit sometimes happens.
May 16 13 11:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AaronPawlak
Posts: 2,703
New York, New York, US


Nathine wrote:
Why models don't show to a shoot.

Why models don't show to a shoot.

1. "My mom just came in from out of town."

2. "I'm sick."

3. "I'm in the hospital"

4. "I have family obligations"

5. "I overslept."

6. "I have to work."

7.

May 16 13 11:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,746
London, England, United Kingdom


Kelleth wrote:
None of the reasons listed in the OP are legitimate reasons for flaking. If you drove your car off a cliff by mistake then maybe...but short of that, don't commit to what you don't want to commit to. And if an emergency comes up, CALL!

This.

There's no excuses for not calling or showing up unless you're not able to physically do so on your journey.

Everything else is just an excuse for poor behaviour.

May 17 13 01:37 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
G D Peters Photography
Posts: 2,920
North Platte, Nebraska, US


JohnEnger wrote:

These are reasons to cancel, not to flake. There is nothing wrong with cancelling as long as due notice is given. Not showing up is just rude.


J.

.....and very disrespectful and unprofessional.  Many believe that being "professional" is synonymous with a quality product, though not necessarily so.  One's behavior, attitude and respect are often qualities overlooked which need to be taken into account also.   twocents

May 17 13 02:15 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gavin Poh
Posts: 225
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


Shot By Adam wrote:

I don't understand this one in your list. If a photographer calls off the shoot, it would kind of go without saying that a model wouldn't show up to a shoot that didn't exist.

Now, that said, I think there are a few other items you neglected to mention, and these are based on actual excuses I've heard from models no-showing for a shoot:

- Model partied all night the night before and is too hung over to show up.
- Model forgot to put it on their calendar.
- Model couldn't understand how to use Google Maps, Mapquest, or a GPS and couldn't figure out where the shoot was based on the address given to them.
- Model got a better offer, like going shoe shopping or helping a friend move.
- The schedule at the Strip Club changed and they had to go into work.
- They didn't "feel pretty" the day of the shoot.
- Model lost her iPhone the night before and that was her only alarm clock.
- Model just got dumped by their BFF.
- Model's only ride to the shoot was an escort who flaked.
- Model's only ride to the shoot was the boyfriend of their roomate who decided to come over and have sex with said roomate instead of driving them to the shoot.
- "I'm on the rag today".

And then, of course, there is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnrCsaSICEE

+1

May 17 13 03:48 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
zaxpix
Posts: 1,988
New Brunswick, New Jersey, US


The OP has long ago, left the building.

Z.
May 17 13 03:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Grit City Pinups
Posts: 264
Tacoma, Washington, US


Well, AZ does have that weird daylight savings thing going on, so maybe everybody did actually show up to the shoot, just at different times.
May 17 13 11:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dario Western
Posts: 619
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


Vector One Photography wrote:
Those are just a lot of excuses for bad behavior. There are very few good reasons not to show for a shoot (car accident on the way, last minute illness, death in the family). There may be more reasons to cancel a shoot but that should be done days or weeks before the event.

Most of what you wrote were reasons to cancel, not to fail to show up.

Is there a cigar icon in these forums?!  Well said!  smile

May 18 13 01:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bravo Magic Images
Posts: 765
Temple City, California, US


I wish i had a super power of getting rid of all my Flakes and no shows and models with bad bad teeth,
May 18 13 01:59 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Scarlett de la Calle
Posts: 414
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia


Orca Bay Images wrote:

Agree with above.

Reasons not to show for a shoot...

Car accident,

food poisoning so you are stuck on the toilet and incapable of shooting,

A limb got badly sprained / broke/ cut off (Dont' show to a shoot with a freshly cut off toe)

A close family member ACTUALLY DIED!!! But ask to reschedule so they don't think you are lying because apparently some models are assholes and use this as a reason to flake.

You are in hospital

May 18 13 02:04 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
lightscapes
Posts: 349
Phoenix, Arizona, US


The OP not only left the building but has apparently shut down her profile and portfolio here !  Does that count as flaking ?  WTF. Going to bed. G' nite John Boy !
May 18 13 02:16 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,113
Orlando, Florida, US


   Lightscapes wrote:
The OP not only left the building but has apparently shut down her profile and portfolio here !  Does that count as flaking ?  WTF. Going to bed. G' nite John Boy !

It likely had to do with the bullying that us regulars sometimes do to newbies.

Or, maybe the fact that she was caught stealing photos and trying to pass them off as her. She either left in embarrassment of that or the admistrators removed her.

One of those things.

May 18 13 05:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,860
Albany, New York, US


Nathine wrote:
Same definition as yours. Luckily I make a living with LA and Eastern shoots. Beginning to wonder about AZ at times.

What I hear from traveling models passing through, it seems like everyone hates their home base area & see the benefits to an hour they frequent. I suspect its a familiarity breeds contempt sort of things.

May 18 13 05:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Pete Kreger
Posts: 2
Pass Christian, Mississippi, US


I had to cancel a shoot once because my wife really did break her ankle.  Its the truth, honest.....Pete
May 19 13 07:45 am  Link  Quote 
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