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Photographer
Warren Leimbach
Posts: 2,549
Tampa, Florida, US


Dear Retouchers,

I tried shooting several different actors individually to composite into a single shot.

I screwed up the perspective.

Now, when I place them in the scene they either are 1) out of scale or 2) they don't look like they are facing each other.

Simply scaling them up and down is not enough.  I think I will have to twist them somehow so they look they are facing each other.

What tool would you recommend for this?  puppet warp?  Liquify?  something else?
May 17 13 02:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,077
Orlando, Florida, US


Is a reshoot impossible?
May 17 13 02:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


Warren Leimbach wrote:
hat tool would you recommend for this?  puppet warp?  Liquify?  something else?

Camera. Re-shoot.

May 17 13 02:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Natalia_Taffarel
Posts: 7,400
Buenos Aires, Buenos Aires, Argentina


This is like asking a chef "Hey, I think I've put too much salt on the meal. Should I add more water or some potatoes?"

We need to SEE the problem to advice you.

x
May 17 13 02:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


Natalia_Taffarel wrote:
We need to SEE the problem to advice you.

In most cases, yes. In this case, no. Re-shoot.

May 17 13 02:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Warren Leimbach
Posts: 2,549
Tampa, Florida, US


Reshoot.


Ugh.  I was afraid of that.


But maybe there is a way to reshape a head so that it looks like the gaze has twisted to the side a bit?

I will try to post a sample.....
May 17 13 03:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


Warren Leimbach wrote:
But maybe there is a way to reshape a head so that it looks like the gaze has twisted to the side a bit?

No. Re-shoot.

May 17 13 03:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Roy Nelson Photos
Posts: 204
West Hollywood, California, US


The key to a realistic multiply shot composite is a fixed camera angle, lens and lighting.  Re-shoot.
May 17 13 03:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Scarlett de la Calle
Posts: 414
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia


agree with the crowd reshoot. Liquify wont do poop and the other ones will just make the body look distorted and wont actually fix your problem. Use a tripod don't move the camera between shots and get it right! While photoshop is amazing it can't fix a photo that wasn't shot right
May 17 13 03:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kevin Connery
Posts: 16,637
El Segundo, California, US


Warren Leimbach wrote:
But maybe there is a way to reshape a head so that it looks like the gaze has twisted to the side a bit?

There is.

It simply takes more time, effort, skill, and training than drawing the face/head from scratch and making it look like a photograph. There's at least a dozen people in the world who can do work like that.

Reshoot.

May 17 13 07:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
AKMac
Posts: 304
London, England, United Kingdom


Can't you show us the image? It might actually be quite an easy fix.
May 17 13 11:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Charlie-CNP
Posts: 2,556
New York, New York, US


+1 for re-shoot.   Also, this might help you. Watch this video on Greg Heisler's workflow. He literally puts paper down on the floor in the studio to map every spot that his subjects are standing, gear is located..etc. and draws it out to avoid issues. Makes for astounding work also. Good luck 

video: http://www.profoto.com/blog/videos/mast … -mourning/
May 17 13 11:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Warren Leimbach
Posts: 2,549
Tampa, Florida, US


As requested, here is the image:


http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/130518/00/519731aa11448_m.jpg



Here is the dilemma as I see it:

Given the scale of the room, the warrior is oriented too much toward the camera left.  He doesn't appear to be facing toward the witch.  (Conversely, if the witch is scaled up, she enters the warrior's eye line but then her eye line doesn't lead to the warrior.)



This is a TFP project that has dragged on and has really begun to consume me.  I would really like to get some closure on this and deliver something useful to all the models involved.  Chances of a reshoot are low; getting the wardrobe together again would be a challenge and I imagine I have exhausted all my credibility with the models.  They would probably mutiny.

Would you:
Chalk it off to theatrical license and just live with it?
Reshoot it?
Warp the warrior; maybe stretch one of legs and compress his profile so he looks like he is facing down the corridor a bit more?
Warp the corridor?
Other ideas?
May 18 13 01:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bruno Inacio
Posts: 27
Paris, Île-de-France, France


I never had composited, but I think your first problem is not the eye contact, the problem is on the perspective of the captures and on the focal distance difference between the space and the actors!

Try to do the shadows before stress with the eye contact...
I think this will never be a very good composite (because of that capture errors) but if you at least match the light and shadows, saturation and hues between the space and the actors, maybe you can solve this delivery problem.

You will not use it for your portfolio, but at least you got more background to your next experience!

Cheers.

P.S. Let's wait for the pro's posts, maybe you will find 10 solutions! big_smile
May 18 13 09:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bruno Inacio
Posts: 27
Paris, Île-de-France, France


Ah, and eye contact is this case is ok, it's not a problem! (in my Point of view)
May 18 13 09:39 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


Warren Leimbach wrote:
Other ideas?

I wouldn't try to warp the perspective. About the only cheap fix I can see is to use puppet warp to turn the man's head up a bit.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f164/Peano2/headturn4_zps12b1f73f.gif

To get it really right, the head would also have to be rotated to the right a little, which would expose more of the back of the head and probably turn the nose out of view, or nearly so. But I suspect that the cheap fix would pass for ordinary viewers (as opposed to pixel-peepers).

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f164/Peano2/headturn1a_zps6c7d9273.gif

May 18 13 09:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Warren Leimbach
Posts: 2,549
Tampa, Florida, US


YES!  A solution exists!


Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you!


That is exactly what I was going for.  So that is what I need to learn next!  Puppet warp.


I am constantly amazed by the talents and humbled by the generosity of the MM community.


Thank you all so much.
May 18 13 10:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jakov Markovic
Posts: 1,034
Belgrade, Central Serbia, Serbia


Compositing is much easier when you use a tripod.
May 18 13 06:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Downtown Pro Photo
Posts: 1,543
Crystal Lake, Illinois, US


when shooting composites the key to success is planning and then checking the plan 3 more times before you shoot.
Using marks on the wall, posts with props attached and a tripod for the camera are musts.  Ray Harryhausen always had stick figures made up at the correct heights for what he was going to composite in later so the actors knew where to look.  Even today if there's going to be a CGI character there will be an actor in a rough outfit for the other actors to know where to interact.

Do you possibly have an image that can be used for a different scene?  Maybe the foreground subject looking away in a defensive stance so it looks like he's starting to dodge an energy bolt being thrown at him?  Maybe place the bottom of the flying person where he's looking with a portal opening at waist level with the rest of her exiting the other portal opening somewhere else as if she's escaping.
Don't get so set on a specific placement that you might not see a solution that can work and possibly make an even cooler image.  A lot of the fantasy images I make don't end up looking anything like I originally started off going for.  But I saw a great emotional capture and then changed things around to incorporate it.
May 23 13 10:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eros Studios
Posts: 690
Boston, Massachusetts, US


I'd try free transform and mess around with skew, perspective, warp.
May 23 13 11:41 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,077
Orlando, Florida, US


Warren Leimbach wrote:
As requested, here is the image:


http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/130518/00/519731aa11448_m.jpg

As far as the fantasy composite, I think it's less important that the eyes are directly parallel and more important that the players actually look like they're in your environment.  That's harder to do that I thought when I had this idea.

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/111213/09/4ee78aef9e1cf_m.jpg

My problem was I didn't have the environment first.  I did it backwards.  Trying to find an environment to fit the players was hard.  Faking the light was even harder.

After seeing your quickie cut and paste, I feel like you can do this and make it look as it should without too much actual manipulation of the players.  You can try a puppet warp to move the male's head, but if you can integrate them well enough, your audience probably won't notice that their eyes aren't on a parallel.

For my image, I actually shot the actors together, but wasn't satisfied with any of the together shots, so I cut them individually and moved them about the environment anyway.

May 23 13 11:55 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PEDRIN-PHOTO
Posts: 31
Newark, Delaware, US


May 23 13 12:09 pm  Link  Quote 
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