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Forums > Model Colloquy > Who are they emulating Search   Reply
Photographer
T A R I K
Posts: 1,237
BRONX, New York, US


Jun 01 13 04:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


Outing and unsolicited critique of another member's work is not allowed.

CAM'd



Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com
Jun 01 13 05:02 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
T A R I K
Posts: 1,237
BRONX, New York, US


That Italian Guy wrote:
Outing and unsolicited critique of another member's work is not allowed.

CAM'd



Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

I do apologize I was not trying to out anyone nor was I asking for a critique that was never my intent. In fact I like the work and was wondering who they were emulating.

Jun 01 13 05:34 am  Link  Quote 
Model
MB JenB
Posts: 2,883
Clarksville, Tennessee, US


T A R I K wrote:

I do apologize I was not trying to out anyone nor was I asking for a critique that was never my intent. In fact I like the work and was wondering who they were emulating.

Hi,
Since they are obviously emulating someone I didn't get the sense that you were outing them. I'm sure the intent was to do their take on that famous pose. I recognize it but can't help you on who did it first. ?

Jun 01 13 05:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
T A R I K
Posts: 1,237
BRONX, New York, US


MyrnaByrna Jen B wrote:

Hi,
Since they are obviously emulating someone I didn't get the sense that you were outing them. I'm sure the intent was to do their take on that famous pose. I recognize it but can't help you on who did it first. ?

thanks

Jun 01 13 05:54 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 26,900
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


That Italian Guy wrote:
Outing and unsolicited critique of another member's work is not allowed.

CAM'd



Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

lol


what happened to simply and kindly pointing out the error of his ways to this fellow first ?

Jun 01 13 06:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


Garry k wrote:
what happened to simply and kindly pointing out the error of his ways to this fellow first ?

I think that the "be nice to newbies" boat has pretty much sailed in this case.

1056 posts - he should know this is not allowed by now.





Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Jun 01 13 08:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
nyk fury
Posts: 2,918
Port Townsend, Washington, US


That Italian Guy wrote:
I think that the "be nice to newbies" boat has pretty much sailed in this case.

1056 posts - he should know this is not allowed by now.

really? i think he just wants to know the source of the concept. clearly absence of malice, except maybe for you.

Jun 01 13 08:50 am  Link  Quote 
Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3,862
Seattle, Washington, US


The original concept most likely belongs to Sylvie Blum:

http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/286429

If you search google images, there doesn't appear to be any more copycats out there.  I know several people who have shot with Sylvie, and from what I've seen & heard, she's not the type that would try to closely reproduce someone else's concept.  At any given time, there are usually several photographers trying to reproduce her concepts. I could be wrong, but that's my guess.
Jun 01 13 11:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


nyk fury wrote:
really? i think he just wants to know the source of the concept. clearly absence of malice, except maybe for you.

So if I were to take one of your photos and find another on MM very like it and post links to both and ask who was emulating who you'd be happy about that?

The OP invites unsolicited critiques of both these members' work with the clear implication that the first is a copy of the second.

And no malice here - I haven't got an axe to grind in this at all. I simply feel that the OP should know better.



Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Jun 01 13 06:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3,862
Seattle, Washington, US


That Italian Guy wrote:

So if I were to take one of your photos and find another on MM very like it and post links to both and ask who was emulating who you'd be happy about that?

The OP invites unsolicited critiques of both these members' work with the clear implication that the first is a copy of the second.

And no malice here - I haven't got an axe to grind in this at all. I simply feel that the OP should know better.



Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

I completely see your point Stefano, but in the OP's defense, he did say
"I like the work and concept and was wondering who they were emulating," which implies that he thinks *both* of the photographers he linked may have tried to reproduce a concept from another famous image, much like people try to reproduce Helmut Newton's work. 

I don't think he meant any harm, and obviously didn't think about the fact that one of the photographers he linked may have actually been responsible for the original concept, which identifies the other as the copycat.  Probably not the best idea for a thread, but hopefully it has been a lesson learned.  I'm surprised the thread hasn't been locked yet though...

Jun 01 13 07:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David M Russell
Posts: 1,087
New York, New York, US


That Italian Guy wrote:
Outing and unsolicited critique of another member's work is not allowed.

CAM'd



Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

I don't get it. Who got "outed"? And where was the solicitation for critique?

Jun 01 13 08:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JONATHAN RICHARD
Posts: 638
New York, New York, US


T A R I K wrote:
I like the work and concept and was wondering who they were emulating

The Dry Eye for rapper Q-Tip

Or just a form of eye massage from back in the day

Now you have $ 0.04 of valued information   ... go subscribe to Adobe CC

Jun 02 13 04:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marin Photography NYC
Posts: 6,997
New York, New York, US


You aren't supposed to put other member's work on display without their consent. Doesn't matter if you like it or not. They may or may not want to participate in this and pointing out that someone else did it - outing.
Jun 02 13 04:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David M Russell
Posts: 1,087
New York, New York, US


Marin Photography wrote:
You aren't supposed to put other member's work on display without their consent. Doesn't matter if you like it or not. They may or may not want to participate in this and pointing out that someone else did it - outing.

I suppose that's a more reasonable argument than what has been presented to date, but....really?!? They're links, not pictures. If you think it isn't cool, don't click.

And if that's the way the rules are really meant to be interpreted, I humbly suggest they be revised in a very clear way. If you're offended by the OP your skin is too thin to be in this business. You'd have to be paranoid to read any kind of malice in that.

By this interpretation of the rules, I couldn't post an example of a makeup or retouching technique I liked, ask from whence it originated, or how to emulate it.

Jun 02 13 04:55 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
T A R I K
Posts: 1,237
BRONX, New York, US


Wow, I did not think my posting would get so much negative feedback especially from those sensitive photographers whose work is not "original" to begin with. To keep the peace and to end this back and forth I will remove the original posting.  As I mention earlier it was never my intent to disrespect or out any of the artist.

I leave on this note

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." - Charles Caleb Colton
Jun 02 13 05:37 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marin Photography NYC
Posts: 6,997
New York, New York, US


David M Russell wrote:
By this interpretation of the rules, I couldn't post an example of a makeup or retouching technique I liked, ask from whence it originated, or how to emulate it.

If they weren't members and the photos/links were not in their port, like an add you find on the internet then it's not outing.  Outing - doesn't have to be malicious.
If you want to know how a member did something why not just go directly to the source? Most would help you.  I have done it and gotten positive results that way.

I am not offended at all. Just explaining why it's considered outing.

Jun 02 13 05:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


T A R I K wrote:
especially from those sensitive photographers whose work is not "original" to begin with.

So you keep the peace by offering an unsolicited critique of the people who disagree with you?

Very classy.




Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Jun 02 13 06:18 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kevin Connery
Posts: 16,709
El Segundo, California, US


David M Russell wrote:
And if that's the way the rules are really meant to be interpreted, I humbly suggest they be revised in a very clear way. If you're offended by the OP your skin is too thin to be in this business. You'd have to be paranoid to read any kind of malice in that.

To the best of my knowledge, the rules are not intended to cover this situation, and you've done nothing improper for posting as you did.

Jun 02 13 06:33 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
T A R I K
Posts: 1,237
BRONX, New York, US


Kevin Connery wrote:

To the best of my knowledge, the rules are not intended to cover this situation, and you've done nothing improper for posting as you did.

thank you ..................

Jun 02 13 09:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


Kevin Connery wrote:

To the best of my knowledge, the rules are not intended to cover this situation, and you've done nothing improper for posting as you did.

I believe you are mistaken. As the OP has now deleted his post I guess the issue is now moot, so I've deleted the CAM but my point remains.

Opening up another member's work to critique without their express permission is not allowed. Any comment by other member on these images could easily be seen as a critique and therefore the OP was in error to post as he did.

This has been discussed a number of times and other mods have generally agreed with me. The rules say we're not allowed to post other members' work as 'examples' of anything because that is in effect inviting unsolicited critiques from the peanut gallery. How is this a difficult concept for you to understand?




Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Jun 02 13 10:03 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
L A U B E N H E I M E R
Posts: 8,441
Seattle, Washington, US


T A R I K wrote:
Wow, I did not think my posting would get so much negative feedback especially from those sensitive photographers whose work is not "original" to begin with. To keep the peace and to end this back and forth I will remove the original posting.  As I mention earlier it was never my intent to disrespect or out any of the artist.

I leave on this note

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." - Charles Caleb Colton

calling the work of other MM photographer's "unoriginal" here in the forums is an unsolicited crutique. hmm

Jun 02 13 10:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
nyk fury
Posts: 2,918
Port Townsend, Washington, US


That Italian Guy wrote:
So if I were to take one of your photos and find another on MM very like it and post links to both and ask who was emulating who you'd be happy about that?

The OP invites unsolicited critiques of both these members' work with the clear implication that the first is a copy of the second.

And no malice here - I haven't got an axe to grind in this at all. I simply feel that the OP should know better.

i don't really care what people do with my junk. i thought he was wondering if there was a source which preceded both of those links, however i think i have to concede to your sharper thinking here and that this thread is tantamount to implied criticism.

Jun 02 13 10:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
nyk fury
Posts: 2,918
Port Townsend, Washington, US


T A R I K wrote:
Wow, I did not think my posting would get so much negative feedback especially from those sensitive photographers whose work is not "original" to begin with.

oops. your fly is down.

T A R I K wrote:
I leave on this note
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." - Charles Caleb Colton

in my small opinion it is a big mistake saying that, or thinking that.

Jun 02 13 10:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


T A R I K wrote:
Wow, I did not think my posting would get so much negative feedback especially from those sensitive photographers whose work is not "original" to begin with. To keep the peace and to end this back and forth I will remove the original posting.  As I mention earlier it was never my intent to disrespect or out any of the artist.

I leave on this note

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." - Charles Caleb Colton

So, you defend the fact that you weren't inviting a unsolicited Critique by giving an unsolicited Critique of the person who brings it to your attention. Then follow it up with "it was never my intent to disrespect any artist."

Congrats, you win the Passive Aggressive Award of the Week.

Jun 02 13 10:16 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 26,900
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


M Pandolfo Photography wrote:

So, you defend the fact that you weren't inviting a unsolicited Critique by giving an unsolicited Critique of the person who brings it to your attention. Then follow it up with "it was never my intent to disrespect any artist."

Congrats, you win the Passive Aggressive Award of the Week.

personally I think he was provoked

sorta like someone who is jaywalking and a bystander yells " I am calling the cops !"

Jun 02 13 10:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
nyk fury
Posts: 2,918
Port Townsend, Washington, US


Garry k wrote:
personally I think he was provoked

sorta like someone who is jaywalking and a bystander yells " I am calling the cops !"

perhaps, but perhaps provoked into showing his true colors.

Jun 02 13 10:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 26,900
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


nyk fury wrote:

perhaps, but perhaps provoked into showing his true colors.

too many people here trying to create petty melodrama when they should be out shooting !

Wish You were here Nyk , You could join me for my shoot with the oh so sexy Rebecca this afternoon

seriously

Jun 02 13 10:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 26,900
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


oopsie double
Jun 02 13 10:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
nyk fury
Posts: 2,918
Port Townsend, Washington, US


Garry k wrote:
Wish You were here Nyk , You could join me for my shoot with the oh so sexy Rebecca this afternoon

seriously

argh gary, you have to keep rubbing it in?! tongue

Jun 02 13 10:58 am  Link  Quote 
Model
P I X I E
Posts: 35,267
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Garry k wrote:

personally I think he was provoked

sorta like someone who is jaywalking and a bystander yells " I am calling the cops !"

Still against the rules.

Jun 02 13 10:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,788
Olivet, Michigan, US


Kevin Connery wrote:
To the best of my knowledge, the rules are not intended to cover this situation, and you've done nothing improper for posting as you did.

It never would have occurred to me that it was a violation of the rules to link to someone else's work and say "I love the way they did this."  Apparently, I was right, and that IS acceptable.

Jun 02 13 11:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


Art of the nude wrote:
It never would have occurred to me that it was a violation of the rules to link to someone else's work and say "I love the way they did this."

That's not quite what the OP did though.





Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Jun 02 13 11:56 am  Link  Quote 
Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3,862
Seattle, Washington, US


Art of the nude wrote:
It never would have occurred to me that it was a violation of the rules to link to someone else's work and say "I love the way they did this."  Apparently, I was right, and that IS acceptable.

It would have been perfectly okay if he would have only posted one link, and said something like," I love this work, can I get tips on how to accomplish this?"

The fact that he posted both links, and then implied that the work was a copy, (unoriginal), is what caused the problem. That kind of statement makes people wonder which photographer was responsible for the original, and opens both artists up for critique (especially the copycat) because two images with the same concept and different artists are being compared.

Jun 02 13 12:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
L A U B E N H E I M E R
Posts: 8,441
Seattle, Washington, US


MelissaAnn  wrote:

It would have been perfectly okay if he would have only posted one link, and said something like," I love this work, can I get tips on how to accomplish this?"

The fact that he posted both links, and then implied that the work was a copy, (unoriginal), is what caused the problem. That kind of statement makes people wonder which photographer was responsible for the original, and opens both artists up for critique (especially the copycat) because two images with the same concept and different artists are being compared.

bingo!

Jun 02 13 12:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
salvatori.
Posts: 3,743
State College, Pennsylvania, US


T A R I K wrote:
Wow, I did not think my posting would get so much negative feedback especially from those sensitive photographers whose work is not "original" to begin with.

I'm not sure if this defines 'ironic' or not; but as a budding novelist, I'm always trying to learn...

Jun 02 13 12:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dean Johnson Photo
Posts: 56,387
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


Moderator Note!

That Italian Guy wrote:

I believe you are mistaken. As the OP has now deleted his post I guess the issue is now moot, so I've deleted the CAM but my point remains.

Opening up another member's work to critique without their express permission is not allowed. Any comment by other member on these images could easily be seen as a critique and therefore the OP was in error to post as he did.

This has been discussed a number of times and other mods have generally agreed with me. The rules say we're not allowed to post other members' work as 'examples' of anything because that is in effect inviting unsolicited critiques from the peanut gallery. How is this a difficult concept for you to understand?




Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

I understand that you think this thread goes against the rules, but that does not give you the right to hijack it.
You do know that hijacking a thread is against the rules right?

These things should be decided by the mods.

And the snarky remark to a mod is out of line as well.

Jun 02 13 02:17 pm  Link  Quote 
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