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Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 16,096
New York, New York, US


http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/sicko/

Just watched this.
You should too.
Jun 15 13 01:50 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Magic Forests
Posts: 530
New York, New York, US


This makes me more than nervous. I've got a handful of health concerns and am always nervous that some day my coverage won't pay for some treatment that I need. sad
Jun 15 13 02:30 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 16,096
New York, New York, US


Magic Forests wrote:
This makes me more than nervous. I've got a handful of health concerns and am always nervous that some day my coverage won't pay for some treatment that I need. sad

The UK & France look very attractive to me.
You can take a long trip to Cuba too.

I had a recent scare and if I wasn't insured, there would have been a huge problem. It was the insurance that prompted my 'now it's time to check this out finally'.

Sad thing is too, I won't have my insurance surely after October.

Ever see this movie?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96rIjxlHpmE

I would seriously consider moving at least temporarily to one of those countries.

Jun 15 13 07:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
noir
Posts: 275
Crewe, England, United Kingdom


Deja vu

Here's one a friend of mine made  for TV (3 part series I believe for Channel 4) when the US was being held up to the UK as an aspirational model.


KENTUCKY FRIED MEDICINE

Channel 4, 1988

"A commendably intelligent and sceptical series exploring the alleged merits of private health care.

Observer

"The excellent KENTUCKY FRIED MEDICINE peers behind the rhetoric in the United States and finds a succession of heart-rending, harrowing tales: the dying cancer patient refused treatment unless he stumped up $500; the repo man who removed an essential piece of equipment from a baby who then died. Tony Wardle and Yvette Vanson's finely researched film exposes the realities of commercial medicine .... Essential viewing."

The Independent

"Had KENTUCKY FRIED MEDICINE been scheduled for Panorama, there might have been questions in Parliament, or even a rap over the knuckles ... Claims that the private sector offers more choice, higher quality services and better value for money are ruthlessly demolished."

Sunday Times
Jun 15 13 11:26 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 16,096
New York, New York, US


noir wrote:
Deja vu

Here's one a friend of mine made  for TV (3 part series I believe for Channel 4) when the US was being held up to the UK as an aspirational model.


KENTUCKY FRIED MEDICINE

Channel 4, 1988

"A commendably intelligent and sceptical series exploring the alleged merits of private health care.

Observer

"The excellent KENTUCKY FRIED MEDICINE peers behind the rhetoric in the United States and finds a succession of heart-rending, harrowing tales: the dying cancer patient refused treatment unless he stumped up $500; the repo man who removed an essential piece of equipment from a baby who then died. Tony Wardle and Yvette Vanson's finely researched film exposes the realities of commercial medicine .... Essential viewing."

The Independent

"Had KENTUCKY FRIED MEDICINE been scheduled for Panorama, there might have been questions in Parliament, or even a rap over the knuckles ... Claims that the private sector offers more choice, higher quality services and better value for money are ruthlessly demolished."

Sunday Times

Thank you for sharing.
It's amazing how corrupt big business is.

I used to work for two really big Healthcare companies myself.

Jun 15 13 01:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 36,415
Columbus, Ohio, US


What the hell is wrong with my sound.  yikes
Jun 15 13 01:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Michael Bots
Posts: 5,679
Kingston, Ontario, Canada


The doctors are not happy either.


Survey: Many physicians unhappy with their jobs
http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/biz-beat/201 … heir-jobs/

Doctors dump health insurance plans, charge patients less
http://www.breitbart.com/system/wire/up … 32724-6523

U.S. producing 'abysmally low' number of primary care doctors
http://www.breitbart.com/system/wire/up … 35806-4920
Jun 15 13 04:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Wicked Photos
Posts: 7,576
New York, New York, US


that was a fun movie.. esp them going to fuckin cuba for doctors.
Jun 15 13 05:06 pm  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 21,689
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna


Don't scoff at Cuba. Their doctors and other medics actually make house-calls.

Cuban medical team put world to shame during Haitian disasters
http://madmikesamerica.com/2010/12/cuba … disasters/

Studio36
Jun 15 13 08:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 16,096
New York, New York, US


studio36uk wrote:
Don't scoff at Cuba. Their doctors and other medics actually make house-calls.

Cuban medical team put world to shame during Haitian disasters
http://madmikesamerica.com/2010/12/cuba … disasters/

Studio36

Awesome

Jun 16 13 06:13 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Magic Forests
Posts: 530
New York, New York, US


Jules NYC wrote:
The UK & France look very attractive to me.
You can take a long trip to Cuba too.

I had a recent scare and if I wasn't insured, there would have been a huge problem. It was the insurance that prompted my 'now it's time to check this out finally'.

Sad thing is too, I won't have my insurance surely after October.

Ever see this movie?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96rIjxlHpmE

I would seriously consider moving at least temporarily to one of those countries.

That movie is going to make me cry. sad

I hate to think about moving out of the country just to afford health care. I hope it doesn't come to that in your case.

Jun 16 13 09:59 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 16,096
New York, New York, US


Magic Forests wrote:

That movie is going to make me cry. sad

I hate to think about moving out of the country just to afford health care. I hope it doesn't come to that in your case.

Nah

I'm cancer free
*phew*

...but my scare made me think deeply about healthcare.

Jun 16 13 10:02 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dream-foto
Posts: 4,357
Chico, California, US


It's estimated that in 2012, 600,000 Americans traveled abroad for medical treatment


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/0 … 51217.html
Jun 16 13 10:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Solas
Posts: 9,486
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Dream-foto wrote:
It's estimated that in 2012, 600,000 Americans traveled abroad for medical treatment


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/0 … 51217.html

I saw a show about that..someone in the USA had to have a triple bypass done, which would've cost him 200 grand or something ridiculous. He traveled to Thailand and had it done (and done well..treated like royalty) for $14,000.

It blows my mind hearing that people are turned away if they can't afford treatment in the USA. That's barbaric IMO.

Jun 16 13 12:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Vivus Hussein Denuo
Posts: 64,079
New York, New York, US


In the past decade, I've been diagnosed with high blood pressure, clogged arteries, prostate cancer and Parkinson's Disease.  Everything is under control at present (knock on wood), but I've racked up tens of thousands of dollars in hospital and doctors' bills.  Medicare has paid for most of it, leaving only a few thousand for me to pay.  Fortunately, I'm able to afford it.  But imagine where I'd be without Medicare.  Poor and broke for sure, and maybe homeless.  Or dead.

Obamacare is essentially "Medicare for everyone."  It's an idea whose time has come.  In fact, came long ago.
Jun 17 13 10:42 am  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 21,689
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna


There was some years ago a press comment that the two single biggest causes of personal bankruptcy in the US were [then] un-payable medical bills and divorce. Something tells me things haven't changed much since then.

You guys should worry a lot less about medical conditions that can be "managed", especially with medications, over the long term because at least you can shop around for the savings if there are any -v.- un-prepared for accidents or sudden medical crises e.g. heart attack or infection run rampant and the cost of medical treatment for those. The later are the things more likely to put you in a hospital and more likely to break the bank.

Studio36
Jun 17 13 11:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bob Helm Photography
Posts: 18,176
Cherry Hill, New Jersey, US


studio36uk wrote:
Don't scoff at Cuba. Their doctors and other medics actually make house-calls.

Cuban medical team put world to shame during Haitian disasters
http://madmikesamerica.com/2010/12/cuba … disasters/

Studio36

Great but when the big guy got sick he sent for out of country experts.

Jun 17 13 12:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bob Helm Photography
Posts: 18,176
Cherry Hill, New Jersey, US


Karl Johnston wrote:

I saw a show about that..someone in the USA had to have a triple bypass done, which would've cost him 200 grand or something ridiculous. He traveled to Thailand and had it done (and done well..treated like royalty) for $14,000.

It blows my mind hearing that people are turned away if they can't afford treatment in the USA. That's barbaric IMO.

And if he had insurance the company would have paid between $15 and 25K and he would have had less out of pocket and did not have to travel halfway around the world. Medical cost to the consumer have no basis in reality and are wildly inflated to show value to having insurance.

Jun 17 13 12:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Big A-Larger Than Life
Posts: 33,407
The Woodlands, Texas, US


studio36uk wrote:
There was some years ago a press comment that the two single biggest causes of personal bankruptcy in the US were [then] un-payable medical bills and divorce. Something tells me things haven't changed much since then.

You guys should worry a lot less about medical conditions that can be "managed", especially with medications, over the long term because at least you can shop around for the savings if there are any -v.- un-prepared for accidents or sudden medical crises e.g. heart attack or infection run rampant and the cost of medical treatment for those. The later are the things more likely to put you in a hospital and more likely to break the bank.

Studio36

Don't forget about the C monster.  I'm on one of the best PPOs in the country, have 10 percent copay on ANYTHING- Rx, inpatient, outpatient, rehab, anything.  And I currently have a 600,000 dollar medical bill sitting on my head.  If I weren't fiscally blessed, I'd be fucked.  It's the chronic diseases that are extremely expensive.  ONE chemo treatment can be 1500 bucks.  A transfusion- 3500.  And that's just the packed red cells.  I also get platelets, Neupogen, and Procrit with each transfusion.  Every week.  Do the math....  Being alive is expensive shit!  Even if I give up and croak, my Cartman box and grass to put it in is like 30 grand minimum.  Even dying is expensive shit!  And when you're a giraffe, it's more expensive!  Turns out custom ordering tall jeans and big shoes is cheaper than ordering tall pine boxes. 

But I'm not ready to join the party in the sky yet, so I'm gonna chillout here and make peeps laugh for about 142 more years.  I figure I can either become a bank robber or a congresswoman to pull that off.  big_smile   Good thing los Estados Unidos has no debtor prisons for unpaid medical bills!

Jun 17 13 12:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Big A-Larger Than Life
Posts: 33,407
The Woodlands, Texas, US


RennsportPhotography wrote:

And if he had insurance the company would have paid between $15 and 25K and he would have had less out of pocket and did not have to travel halfway around the world. Medical cost to the consumer have no basis in reality and are wildly inflated to show value to having insurance.

Yeah it's true.  And that comes from someone with experience on both sides of the medical field.  We are truly blessed here in the U.S.  We have the best medicine in the world.  It's ACCESSING it that becomes a very exclusive socialite territory...

Jun 17 13 12:23 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 21,689
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna


Big A-Larger Than Life wrote:
Don't forget about the C monster.  I'm on one of the best PPOs in the country, have 10 percent copay on ANYTHING- Rx, inpatient, outpatient, rehab, anything.  And I currently have a 600,000 dollar medical bill sitting on my head.  If I weren't fiscally blessed, I'd be fucked.  It's the chronic diseases that are extremely expensive.  ONE chemo treatment can be 1500 bucks.  A transfusion- 3500.  And that's just the packed red cells.  I also get platelets, Neupogen, and Procrit with each transfusion.  Every week.  Do the math....  Being alive is expensive shit!  Even if I give up and croak, my Cartman box and grass to put it in is like 30 grand minimum.  Even dying is expensive shit!  And when you're a giraffe, it's more expensive!  Turns out custom ordering tall jeans and big shoes is cheaper than ordering tall pine boxes. 

But I'm not ready to join the party in the sky yet, so I'm gonna chillout here and make peeps laugh for about 142 more years.  I figure I can either become a bank robber or a congresswoman to pull that off.  big_smile   Good thing los Estados Unidos has no debtor prisons for unpaid medical bills!

I don't disagree with you one bit A. I think my point was more that an accident or sudden and serious medical condition could run up the 600 grand tab in under a week. For chronic conditions they drip feed you the bills over a somewhat longer time.

The effect is most definitely the same, either way. You are absolutely correct.

Studio36

BTW there was an interesting observation made here in the UK last week about the difference in costs. We have, of course, the National Health Service public service option but along side that also one can choose to go private and pay. The discussion was about dialysis. One dialysis treatment costs the UK tax payer through the NHS about UK£150; the same treatment in a private facility runs UK£500. And for that condition three treatments a week for life or until a transplant is available. A transplant on the NHS would cost nothing - zero!; A transplant in the private sector? I shudder to think! Some contrast, wouldn't you say? The very same contrast, adjusting the numbers of course, would apply to such as cancer treatment.


I spent two weeks in an NHS hospital 2 1/2 years ago - direct cost? Zero!
I spent a repeat two weeks in an NHS hospital last year for the same condition - direct cost? Zero!
I needed emergency surgery + blood on my second stay - direct cost? Zero!
They did a follow up corrective op last Feb - direct cost? Zero!
The US has the means to do similar, they just don't have the will.

Jun 17 13 12:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Bunny Bombshell
Posts: 11,752
Huntington, West Virginia, US


Yep, saw it a few years ago. Definitely a must-see
Jun 17 13 01:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Damon Strong
Posts: 1,841
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada


My father had triple bypass surgery earlier this year and it didn't cost him a cent.    Canada rocks!
Jun 17 13 02:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Erik Ballew
Posts: 714
Westminster, Colorado, US


Jun 17 13 09:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Little Queenie
Posts: 6,213
Indio, California, US


I had a baby 3 weeks ago.

I received a bill from my anesthesiologist Saturday. They didn't have my insurance information and are asking $6300 for my epidural a procedure that took less than 20 minutes...

Yeah, ain't nothing wrong here.
Jun 17 13 09:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cosplay Creatives
Posts: 10,714
Amundsen-Scott - permanent station of the US, Unclaimed Sector, Antarctica


Little Queenie wrote:
I had a baby 3 weeks ago.

I received a bill from my anesthesiologist Saturday. They didn't have my insurance information and are asking $6300 for my epidural a procedure that took less than 20 minutes...

Yeah, ain't nothing wrong here.

Congrats! on the baby. smile

Jun 17 13 09:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,573
Salinas, California, US


Vivus Hussein Denuo wrote:
In the past decade, I've been diagnosed with high blood pressure, clogged arteries, prostate cancer and Parkinson's Disease.  Everything is under control at present (knock on wood), but I've racked up tens of thousands of dollars in hospital and doctors' bills.  Medicare has paid for most of it, leaving only a few thousand for me to pay.  Fortunately, I'm able to afford it.  But imagine where I'd be without Medicare.  Poor and broke for sure, and maybe homeless.  Or dead.

Obamacare is essentially "Medicare for everyone."  It's an idea whose time has come.  In fact, came long ago.

I hear you!   It's a wicked secret that if you bill through insurance, you add a couple zeros to everything.   I have congestive heart failure.   I have had open heart surgery to replace my valve.  If I pay cash under the table for an office visit, it's $45.  If my doctor has to bill it to medicare OR any insurance company, it's $450!   A friend of mine high up in the billing department of a hospital near a wealthy area of the Bay Area told me that most of the wealthiest Americans (the 1%) who have millions if not billions ... never buy insurance.  They simply pay in cash ... and get a discount because of that!  The mark up on medical care in the United States is insane!  We needed to do something!   I'm hoping that National Healthcare will turn this around.  However, as long as insurance lobbies pour billions of dollars into Congresses pockets?

Jun 18 13 12:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bob Helm Photography
Posts: 18,176
Cherry Hill, New Jersey, US


Little Queenie wrote:
I had a baby 3 weeks ago.

I received a bill from my anesthesiologist Saturday. They didn't have my insurance information and are asking $6300 for my epidural a procedure that took less than 20 minutes...

Yeah, ain't nothing wrong here.

And check your EOB (Explanation of Benefits) to see what the insurance ACTUALLY paid. Then check what he (she) pays for malpractice insurance (depending on location and specialty can be as much as $200,000 PER YEAR).

Jun 18 13 06:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Juicylicious
Posts: 352
Orlando, Florida, US


There is something wrong here. USA is suppose to be the most advance country in the World but we have the most mess up healthcare system here. Obamacare in 2014 is suppose to fix all this? I think not, and I am not even a Republican.
Jun 18 13 06:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Juicylicious
Posts: 352
Orlando, Florida, US


Big A-Larger Than Life wrote:

Yeah it's true.  And that comes from someone with experience on both sides of the medical field.  We are truly blessed here in the U.S.  We have the best medicine in the world.  It's ACCESSING it that becomes a very exclusive socialite territory...

How do you explain while the same pill I can get it at about half price in Canada than in the U.S.??

Jun 18 13 06:32 am  Link  Quote 
Model
C A K E M I X
Posts: 873
Louth, England, United Kingdom


I watched this last night, made me feel quite uneasy.
To give you some perspective on where I stand on this.

In scotland, EVERYTHING is free, I'd never paid for a prescription in my life, in our out of school or employment, it's covered.

I moved down to england at the start of the year and the first thing I noticed which shocked me, is that prescriptions here are paid, something like £7.25 now.

So yeah, just the thought of people being turned away for ANY sort of treatment, life threatening or not, sickens me.

The healthcare system sounds like some nightmare you here from third world countries, infact they have it better sussed than you guys hmm

How sad is that?
and there are still elitests who argue that private care is the only way to go, and talk shit about the NHS and other free (taxed) national health care systems.

Sure if you can afford it, but the grand majority of people can not afford their own health care, and it shows.
Jun 18 13 06:42 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Big A-Larger Than Life
Posts: 33,407
The Woodlands, Texas, US


Juicylicious wrote:

How do you explain while the same pill I can get it at about half price in Canada than in the U.S.??

That was precisely my point....

Jun 18 13 07:44 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Little Queenie
Posts: 6,213
Indio, California, US


RennsportPhotography wrote:
And check your EOB (Explanation of Benefits) to see what the insurance ACTUALLY paid. Then check what he (she) pays for malpractice insurance (depending on location and specialty can be as much as $200,000 PER YEAR).

Like I said, they sent me the bill as if I didn't have insurance. So regardless of what my insurance will pay, this is what people without insurance who pay out if pocket for their medical care get billed.

Anyways, I was one of 4 people in L&D that night having a kid vaginally, that's not considering the women in OR. 99% of women in that hospital receive an epi so even if she pays $200k for malpractice insurance I'm sure it doesn't take her to long to come up with that amount of money based on what she charges even at a discount which insurance will pay.

Mind you I'm still on the hook for 20% of that bill.

Jun 18 13 07:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BT Imagery
Posts: 1,017
Cedar Falls, Iowa, US


Vivus Hussein Denuo wrote:
Obamacare is essentially "Medicare for everyone."  It's an idea whose time has come.  In fact, came long ago.

No, Obamacare is absolutely NOT 'medicare for everyone'. If people understood what Obamacare did, how it worked, and what the inevitable results would be NO ONE with an IQ over 80 would support it. It's a disaster from start to finish.

Healthcare DOES need to be overhauled, but the ACA was NOT the way to do it.

Jun 18 13 08:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BT Imagery
Posts: 1,017
Cedar Falls, Iowa, US


C A K E M I X  wrote:
I watched this last night, made me feel quite uneasy.
To give you some perspective on where I stand on this.

In scotland, EVERYTHING is free, I'd never paid for a prescription in my life, in our out of school or employment, it's covered.

Free, huh? So you don't pay taxes at all? Oh, right, of course you do! It's not free at all, it's just paid for by the government via YOUR money. So, in other words, you give the government more of your money and they decide how you should spend it. Sounds amazing. :eyeroll:

Jun 18 13 08:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 22,063
New York, New York, US


Cherrystone wrote:
What the hell is wrong with my sound.  yikes

Sore throat?   wink

Jun 18 13 12:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
JadeDRed
Posts: 5,397
London, England, United Kingdom


Biggs Photography wrote:
So, in other words, you give the government more of your money and they decide how you should spend it. Sounds amazing.

Of the things our taxes are spent on, vaccinating children or fixing some old lady's hips are not the ones we worry about.

Jun 18 13 12:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
C A K E M I X
Posts: 873
Louth, England, United Kingdom


Biggs Photography wrote:

Free, huh? So you don't pay taxes at all? Oh, right, of course you do! It's not free at all, it's just paid for by the government via YOUR money. So, in other words, you give the government more of your money and they decide how you should spend it. Sounds amazing. :eyeroll:

Don't pick and choose your quotes, I did mention and am fully aware (big surprise) that we pay for our healthcare through taxes, if you bothered to read my reply fully.

I'd rather pay a few hundred pounds (or less) a year towards healthcare for everyone, than THOUSANDS of pounds on my own/or families health care in one sitting.
The NHS might have it's flaws, but you still get decent healthcare and service.
And even the people who do want to go private, health care systems like Bupa are MUCH more affordable for even working class families, so if you feel you cannot wait for treatment off NHS, you can still get quality affordable private healthcare.

So yeah, it is rather smashing. smile

Jun 18 13 12:57 pm  Link  Quote 
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Model
Koryn
Posts: 36,353
Boston, Massachusetts, US


A couple of winters ago, my best female friend happened to accrue about $900,000 in medical bills. She has been under-employed since she got laid off from her house-cleaning job when the financial crisis hit North Carolina back in 2009, and her husband works 3 jobs to keep a roof over their heads. Most months, they don't really have enough food after they pay to keep their lights and heat on, and take care of rent. Neither of them would ever ask for anything from anyone, so you have to sort of covertly send them gifts of groceries, and just say it's because you had extra.

Yeah, that kind of poor, but $900,000 in debt for her medical care. After all those scans and tests and x-rays, the hospital never could figure out what was wrong with her, referred her to a psychiatrist and said her chronic breathing problems and respiratory infections were all in her head. She just had a lot of mucus, and they didn't feel like it was a big deal, even though she said she coughed up chunks of gunky phlegm all the time and felt like she was living with the flu 24/7.

Turns out, the $300/month trailer they rented was full of black mold. All kinds of mold really; mold is known to make people sick. Really really sick. It was pretty much rotting down, but that's what they could afford, so that's where they lived. After some of their family (who are also broke as fuck) pitched in to help them get together a deposit and first month's rent on a new place, and they moved, her breathing improved a lot and the respiratory inflammation went away.

Now, they have a $400/month rotting down house with inadequate heat, but at least she's not sick anymore. I went to see them last week, and she just handed me this giant box full of medical bills, and said something to the extent of, "We send them $40 a month, when we have $40 to send. We'll never pay it off, and we'll never be able to buy another car, or a house."

$900,000 and they never even figured out it was the house she was living in that was making her sick.
Jun 18 13 01:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Vivus Hussein Denuo
Posts: 64,079
New York, New York, US


We pool our money and pay collectively for military defense, police services, fire services, education through high school, sewer services, highways, bridges and tunnels, and many other important things.  But mention health care, and some say "No!  That's socialism!"

Call it what you want.  Everyone should have affordable access to medical care, imo.
Jun 18 13 01:38 pm  Link  Quote 
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