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Photographer
Leland Ray
Posts: 301
Hattiesburg, Mississippi, US


What do you see in a photographer's profile that tells you he might be sketchy? 

I kind of hesitate to bring this up, since some perfectly legitimate photographers can be abrasive, or they don't communicate well, but I've had a couple of models I consider friends contact me and report bad experiences with people; when I looked at their profiles, I immediately read things that would have set my antennae buzzing immediately, yet the models didn't notice.

I know, I'm not stating this very well, but I do believe it's a discussion that could be beneficial for young models.
Jun 19 13 04:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


I always find the distant clanking of spurs to be a pretty good warning sign.






Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com
Jun 19 13 04:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Boho Hobo
Posts: 25,351
Portland, Oregon, US


sketchy how?
Jun 19 13 04:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 26,984
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


lack of crediting the models in their portfolio
lack of "thanks for the great shoot!" "I cant wait to shoot with you again" etc positive tags from past shoots
been on the site for years and years but still has very few photos, or is currently active but all photos are from years and years ago. (begs the questions what have you been doing, and/or why wont more people work with you?)

outright lies like "Ive been published in ELLE, Vogue, GQ, etc" but their work is beyond obviously not publication quality and they dont exhibit any of the tears in their portfolio.
A handful of really great photos and then one or two that are just downright awful and dont fit in with the rest whatsoever. Makes me wonder if you actually took all the photos youre showing, or if the good ones were set up by someone else (workshops) and youre not actually that good on your own.

Really long rambling bios about how much they just oh so love the female body and its so sexy and sensual with its curves and smooth skin and suppleness and yadda yadda....oh but they're just appreciative, totally not creepy! (If you have to TELL people youre not creepy...either you deep down know that your behavior will come off that way or someone has outright told you so...and you probably ARE. ) Bios are meant for Who, what, when, where, why, not what gets your rocks off in the shower, regardless of how flowery you can make it sound.
Jun 19 13 04:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leland Ray
Posts: 301
Hattiesburg, Mississippi, US


Laura UnBound wrote:
lack of crediting the models in their portfolio
lack of "thanks for the great shoot!" "I cant wait to shoot with you again" etc positive tags from past shoots
been on the site for years and years but still has very few photos, or is currently active but all photos are from years and years ago. (begs the questions what have you been doing, and/or why wont more people work with you?)

outright lies like "Ive been published in ELLE, Vogue, GQ, etc" but their work is beyond obviously not publication quality and they dont exhibit any of the tears in their portfolio.

Really long rambling bios about how much they just oh so love the female body and its so sexy and sensual with its curves and smooth skin and suppleness and yadda yadda....oh but they're just appreciative, totally not creepy! (If you have to TELL people youre not creepy...either you deep down know that your behavior will come off that way or someone has outright told you so...and you probably ARE. ) Bios are meant for Who, what, when, where, why, not what gets your rocks off in the shower.

Okay, I think you got the high points. smile  Those are some (not all) of the exact things I was talking about.

Jun 19 13 04:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 18,966
Chicago, Illinois, US


Leland Ray wrote:

Okay, I think you got the high points. smile  Those are some (not all) of the exact things I was talking about.

Leland your profile is a curious read.

Jun 19 13 04:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Omaroo
Posts: 996
Madison, Wisconsin, US


Laura UnBound wrote:
lack of crediting the models in their portfolio

This one annoys me.  I'm left to interpretation and I tend to interpret that the photographer is possessive of the models and doesn't want anyone else "stealing them away."

Jun 19 13 04:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leland Ray
Posts: 301
Hattiesburg, Mississippi, US


Tony Lawrence wrote:

Leland your profile is a curious read.

Well, part of the reason I posted this was because I was in the process of revising it.  I come across as kind of cynical.  That's because I AM cynical, but I'm also a really nice guy all the same--seriously, if I had any friends they'd tell you. smile

Jun 19 13 04:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leland Ray
Posts: 301
Hattiesburg, Mississippi, US


Omaroo wrote:

This one annoys me.  I'm left to interpretation and I tend to interpret that the photographer is possessive of the models and doesn't want anyone else "stealing them away."

EXACTLY!  And I hate it when a model says, "yes, I'm a model, but I prefer to shoot with my REGULAR photographer."

So why is she here anyway?

Jun 19 13 04:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 18,966
Chicago, Illinois, US


Leland Ray wrote:

Well, part of the reason I posted this was because I was in the process of revising it.  I come across as kind of cynical.  That's because I AM cynical, but I'm also a really nice guy all the same--seriously, if I had any friends they'd tell you. smile

I guess most things are about perception.   Once your model friends told you they had problems you suddenly found 'red flags' in the photographers profiles.   Could your not allowing escorts be a red flag?   Could a model misinterpret your Brian De Palma quote?  For the record I don't allow escorts and I know for a fact that some models see that as a red flag but I don't give a shi^.   I did find your link funny and Jesus comment funny.

Jun 19 13 04:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leland Ray
Posts: 301
Hattiesburg, Mississippi, US


Tony Lawrence wrote:

I guess most things are about perception.   Once your model friends told you they had problems you suddenly found 'red flags' in the photographers profiles.   Could your not allowing escorts be a red flag?   Could a model misinterpret your Brian De Palma quote?  For the record I don't allow escorts and I know for a fact that some models see that as a red flag but I don't give a shi^.   I did find your link funny and Jesus comment funny.

I don't give a shit either, and I've met some creepy escorts.  Yeah, the De Palma quotation might be construed that way, but it happens to be very much the way I feel.  I have been riding in this rodeo for a very long time.

As for perception... I'm a very careful reader, and I can usually catch the flags without prior information.

Jun 19 13 04:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
CBAPhoto
Posts: 239
Sparks, Nevada, US


I've learned you really can't say anything right on this site. So I stopped. I get far better response for my photos and who I am personally on Facebook and Google+. Here I change out the photos from time to time whether or not people have faved them, and then I check in from time to time. Some weeks I'm here daily. Some weeks I'm not here at all. Right now I'm showing two shots from a personal project simply because I have too many other shots to sort through and post when I know I'll just be changing them out again. hmm
Jun 19 13 05:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 26,984
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


CBAPhoto wrote:
I've learned you really can't say anything right on this site. So I stopped. I get far better response for my photos and who I am personally on Facebook and Google+. Here I change out the photos from time to time whether or not people have faved them, and then I check in from time to time. Some weeks I'm here daily. Some weeks I'm not here at all. Right now I'm showing two shots from a personal project simply because I have too many other shots to sort through and post when I know I'll just be changing them out again. hmm

Its kind of hard to go wrong with just covering the 5 Ws. When I was full time thats basically all I ever had in my profile, in bullet point form, and I kept each to 2-5 sentences. I let anyone looking to book me know almost everything they could possibly need to know before they even sent their first message, but I didnt go on long rambling paragraphs of nonsense that nobody would ever read in the first place. I got a lot of "Im so glad youve got an intelligent useful profile I can actually read!" comments from people. Its pretty simple.

Jun 19 13 05:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MedievalIce
Posts: 206
Ithaca, New York, US


Rants about the cost of gear and why they should get paid.
Jun 19 13 05:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marin Photography NYC
Posts: 6,605
New York, New York, US


I don't think it matters. Most models I dealt with don't read the darn bio anyway. You know how many people ask me where I am located when it's clearly stated where I live. Then they go on to ask questions that are already answered in my bio. So, for this reason alone, I wouldn't put too much stock in the stupid bio.
Jun 19 13 06:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 26,745
Dearborn, Michigan, US


Marin Photography wrote:
I don't think it matters. Most models I dealt with don't read the darn bio anyway. You know how many people ask me where I am located when it's clearly stated where I live. Then they go on to ask questions that are already answered in my bio. So, for this reason alone, I wouldn't put too much stock in the stupid bio.

They have no idea where the Bronx is.   big_smile

Jun 19 13 06:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Erik Ballew
Posts: 710
Westminster, Colorado, US


IMO the hardest thing about any of this is the Bio... sad  I have no idea what to say!
Jun 19 13 06:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
sweetcheekscouture
Posts: 376
West Palm Beach, Florida, US


Omaroo wrote:

This one annoys me.  I'm left to interpretation and I tend to interpret that the photographer is possessive of the models and doesn't want anyone else "stealing them away."

I credit models when I can but a lot of the models are agency girls and don't have profiles on here.

I do try to credit them by their first name and their agency when possible.

Jun 19 13 06:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
L Bass
Posts: 941
Nacogdoches, Texas, US


To some models (specifically young newbies on MM) it's a turnoff to see anything remotely resembling nudity in a port. It's translated into 'that's all they shoot', even if it's a small portion of the port.

The girls that choose to shoot with me... we have a blast and we usually come up with some pretty cool (sometimes bizarre) stuff. The girls that don't... need to find a photographer that they are comfortable with, to shoot the genres that they are limited to.

With experience comes genre expansion, which usually translates to a wider variety of work opportunities. I prefer to work with experienced models for that reason. If I have to throw some $$ their way, or give them a place to stay, or both... we all get what we want and walk away smiling smile

With that said... I guess I should have a peek at my profile and look for those flags... lol.
Jun 19 13 06:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
CBAPhoto
Posts: 239
Sparks, Nevada, US


Laura UnBound wrote:

Its kind of hard to go wrong with just covering the 5 Ws. When I was full time thats basically all I ever had in my profile, in bullet point form, and I kept each to 2-5 sentences. I let anyone looking to book me know almost everything they could possibly need to know before they even sent their first message, but I didnt go on long rambling paragraphs of nonsense that nobody would ever read in the first place. I got a lot of "Im so glad youve got an intelligent useful profile I can actually read!" comments from people. Its pretty simple.

Yeah. Tried that too. No bueno.

Jun 19 13 06:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marin Photography NYC
Posts: 6,605
New York, New York, US


Jerry Nemeth wrote:

They have no idea where the Bronx is.   big_smile

No they don't...I have to tell them what train and everything...geeze! I thought cell phones had google... big_smile

Jun 19 13 06:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Nogawd Photography
Posts: 92
Cleveland, Ohio, US


Laura UnBound wrote:
lack of crediting the models in their portfolio
lack of "thanks for the great shoot!" "I cant wait to shoot with you again" etc positive tags from past shoots

There are some of us on here that don't shoot many MM models, or if they were here they have since deleted ports or quit all together. 

I always love your posts, btw.

Jun 19 13 06:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bare Essential Photos
Posts: 3,210
Upland, California, US


To Tony Lawrence --

Tony Lawrence wrote:
For the record I don't allow llama herders and I know for a fact that some models see that as a red flag but I don't give a shi^.

Yes, I've had plenty of models PM me saying that I must be a "creeper" for not allowing llama herders (friends).

That's okay. I prefer not shooting models who are insecure with themselves and view photoshoots as an opportunity to hang with a friend(s) while getting paid.

That's not acceptable to me.

Jun 19 13 06:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,780
Olivet, Michigan, US


Leland Ray wrote:
What do you see in a photographer's profile that tells you he might be sketchy? 

I kind of hesitate to bring this up, since some perfectly legitimate photographers can be abrasive, or they don't communicate well, but I've had a couple of models I consider friends contact me and report bad experiences with people; when I looked at their profiles, I immediately read things that would have set my antennae buzzing immediately, yet the models didn't notice.

I know, I'm not stating this very well, but I do believe it's a discussion that could be beneficial for young models.

I would think that asking models what they consider to be a red flag, is a red flag. 

The thing that has always stood out to me as stupid is "I require that models bring an llama herder for their safety."  I mean, allow them, or don't.  But if you don't think models are safe WITH YOU without an llama herder, perhaps you should just quit.

Jun 19 13 06:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Sabine Luise
Posts: 890
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Recently, I had two bad experiences so far in a row. Reason why I have no updates.

You think have been here for awhile so I kind of get some of what to avoid, but even still it is hard to tell.
Jun 19 13 07:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
gorgeous3mikecasa
Posts: 35
Chicago, Illinois, US


Omaroo wrote:

This one annoys me.  I'm left to interpretation and I tend to interpret that the photographer is possessive of the models and doesn't want anyone else "stealing them away."

+1

Jun 19 13 07:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
E L I N
Posts: 199
Montreal, Quebec, Canada


Model Mayhem albums classified by name of girls with 30 "good" pictures from each girls. Run.
Jun 19 13 07:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
E L I N
Posts: 199
Montreal, Quebec, Canada


DP.
Jun 19 13 07:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mountain Image
Posts: 1,184
Morgantown, West Virginia, US


Leland Ray wrote:

EXACTLY!  And I hate it when a model says, "yes, I'm a model, but I prefer to shoot with my REGULAR photographer."

So why is she here anyway?

+100 I just had one of those in the past couple of weeks. I agree with the comment what are they doing on here.

Jun 19 13 07:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 26,984
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Marin Photography wrote:
I don't think it matters. Most models I dealt with don't read the darn bio anyway. You know how many people ask me where I am located when it's clearly stated where I live. Then they go on to ask questions that are already answered in my bio. So, for this reason alone, I wouldn't put too much stock in the stupid bio.

To be fair, I know several people in NYC who live in one burrough, have a studio in another, and shoot locations in another, so its actually a bad idea to assume "so and so lists their location as the bronx, Im obviously going to be working with them in the bronx then." Ive done that before only to find out last minute that we're actually shooting way way the fuck far away from where I thought we were and its going to add another hour onto my commute and if I go there I wont even come close to making it to my second shoot in time and everything gets screwed up. Regardless of what someone lists in their location I still ask them "where will we be shooting/where are you located?"

Also true for LA. LA is goddamn HUGE and everyone lists themselves as being IN LOS ANGELES PROPER when really they mean theyre an hour and a half outside of downtown without traffic and no, they wont come to you or meet you half way. roll

Jun 19 13 08:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 26,984
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Nogawd Photography wrote:
There are some of us on here that don't shoot many MM models, or if they were here they have since deleted ports or quit all together. 

I always love your posts, btw.

I do understand that. However if youve been here for 4 years, got 20-50 photo slots and not a single one of them is used for an MM model, or you just refuse to take the extra 30 seconds to credit them... hmm

Also, just for future reference, when someone leaves MM (or if they remember what their profile number was) their credits still show, which even if I cant go contact her anymore at least it shows you DID work with someone from the site at SOME POINT which is better than nothing. How do I know all your uncredited photos werent just yanked off the web somewhere otherwise? Its better than nothing.

Jun 19 13 08:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eastfist
Posts: 3,497
Green Bay, Wisconsin, US


Leland Ray wrote:
What do you see in a photographer's profile that tells you he might be sketchy?

The same things you look for if a model's profile might be sketchy:

-stolen photos
-glaring photoshopped/imposter photos
-sock puppet profiles
-scams
-nonsensical bot comments
-etc etc

You never know unless you interact with them first.

Jun 19 13 08:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leland Ray
Posts: 301
Hattiesburg, Mississippi, US


I put the comment about escorts on my page to address a particular trend I was seeing, that of models who'd email me saying that "my boyfriend is coming to insure my safety."  They didn't even ask if it was okay to bring someone along, just assumed there was some "danger" to working with me (or anyone else) and made the decision to have a bodyguard on hand.

Since I work with a lot of inexperienced models, it was necessary for me to state in very strong terms that I am NOT okay with making assumptions.  Professional models, those that do this as a primary or secondary source of income, don't even ask, they simply check my bona fides in their own way and come to work.  A recent model didn't have transportation, so her boyfriend drove her, but he literally had the power of invisibility whenever we were shooting.  I found myself looking around to see where he was, which I appreciated more than he could know.  Considering his attitude, I doubt I would have minded him being right there anyway, though he chose to let his girlfriend do her job and stay completely out of the way.

I often allow escorts, but it's on a case by case basis.  I've decided finally that if a model says her escort is her "bodyguard," I'm not interested in her at all.
Jun 19 13 08:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AMCphotography
Posts: 436
Los Angeles, California, US


Omaroo wrote:

This one annoys me.  I'm left to interpretation and I tend to interpret that the photographer is possessive of the models and doesn't want anyone else "stealing them away."

I always think that too! Sometimes I'm lucky enough to find a model, if she credited the said photographer. I also find it crazy when folks turn off their credited photo filter.

Jun 19 13 08:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AMCphotography
Posts: 436
Los Angeles, California, US


Jerry Nemeth wrote:

They have no idea where the Bronx is.   big_smile

The Bronx is up and the Battery's down...

Jun 19 13 08:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PictureItYakima
Posts: 371
Seattle, Washington, US


I see old, out dated credits and pics in the port as a sign.
No llamas credited on their profile, whether on MM or not.

The escort thing, I've finally after getting sick and tired of reading about it here, just took it off my profile. I'll deal with it as it comes up and fortunately has not been an issue. I'm believing a half way decent port and semi thoughtful profile helps eliminate or reduce the escort crap.
Jun 19 13 09:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 18,966
Chicago, Illinois, US


I think its not a great ideal to judge anyone by a few paragraphs on a web site.   If a shooter has been here a while but not updated its fair to ask why.   Few MM members shot?   Based on the many flake threads easy to understand.   A shooter may have taken some time off.   People are often too quick to judge others.
Jun 19 13 09:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
nyk fury
Posts: 2,900
Port Townsend, Washington, US


Tony Lawrence wrote:
I think its not a great ideal to judge anyone by a few paragraphs on a web site.   If a shooter has been here a while but not updated its fair to ask why.   Few MM members shot?   Based on the many flake threads easy to understand.   A shooter may have taken some time off.   People are often too quick to judge others.

exactly. communication is key. but a profile is not really communication. it's an entrance. what lays behind a krunky profile may be little different than what lays behind an excellent one. grain of salt.

Jun 19 13 10:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
nyk fury
Posts: 2,900
Port Townsend, Washington, US


Laura UnBound wrote:
lack of crediting the models in their portfolio

one thing MM could do, if it was the least bit evolutionary - which it isn't - is have a place to credit [and link to] models other than MM ones. instead we have to somehow shove model info into one of the available lines presented, such as title or location.

Jun 19 13 10:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Glamour by Glenn
Posts: 930
Nashville, Tennessee, US


I think this is a no-win proposition for photographers. Every model I've actually worked with has said they enjoyed working with me and many have worked with me multiple times. But I've had a couple (whom I've never worked with) say that I seem creepy with my bio, like I'm over compensating or something. So I just choose to be myself and let the models decide. You can't make everyone happy, so don't try. Just be a decent person and be honest. That's all you can do.
Jun 19 13 10:38 pm  Link  Quote 
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