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Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 2,755
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan


I been thinking about it for some time now.
In my younger days with Deluxe Paint on Amiga I could replace the palette of the image entirely, thus being able to control each colour precisely.

Now in the Photoshop age I am looking for most precise way to tone an image using a separate high/mid/low tones adjustments while keeping contamination and separation to minimum possible.

Can it be done at all?

PS without Camera RAW split toning and Nik Viveza!
Jun 20 13 02:32 am  Link  Quote 
Digital Artist
Koray
Posts: 6,679
Ankara, Ankara, Turkey


you'll have to dive into learning how to make luminosity masks of your own.
here is where I and probably everybody else started learning:
http://goodlight.us/writing/luminositym … sks-1.html

There are more advanced ways once you figure out the ones above. pm me if needed.
Jun 20 13 02:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 2,755
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan


Great stuff mate!
Will check it out. Really appreciate your comments - instead of laying everything out you stimulate my thinking process when you point me in a direction of solution wink
Jun 20 13 03:25 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Retouch007
Posts: 403
East Newark, New Jersey, US


a really simple way is just to use color range and in the pull down menu all the colors are listed.
Jun 20 13 04:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 2,755
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan


R G wrote:
a really simple way is just to use color range and in the pull down menu all the colors are listed.

Don't have Photoshop at hand atm. The selection palette should be there, right?
How about applying it to a tonal range?
Then again, colour range will cover tonality...does make sense.

I was hoping the gradation would be adapted automatically from the selected colour. Or would I need to define high/low of the colour range?

Jun 20 13 05:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Warren Leimbach
Posts: 2,551
Tampa, Florida, US


R.EYE.R wrote:
Now in the Photoshop age I am looking for most precise way to tone an image using a separate high/mid/low tones adjustments while keeping contamination and separation to minimum possible.

I am no expert, but take a look at Image>>Adjustments>>Gradient Map
You can set multiple colors and adjust the range of each one.  Lows, mids, highs.


The Kuyper articles are awesome but it will take you days to digest and weeks of experimenting with adding and subtracting masks until you can create a mask to select a precise range.  (I have a real beef with Photoshop here; the way masks combine - especially subtraction - are not very intuitive.)  Be patient and take lots of notes.  It is worth grappling with, especially if you plan to go deeper into Photoshop.

Jun 20 13 07:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
3068875
Posts: 944
Los Angeles, California, US


Well, I'm no expert either, but you can make very precise luminosity masks by creating black and white gradient maps from the image's luminosty.

You can make a mask that is black from 0% to 12%, ramps up to white by 19%, stays white until 37% and then falls softly back to black by 56% if you want.

Then you can use that as a layer mask to control one color version of an image over another. You can layer as many as you want with precision.

Probably could do something similar with blend-if sliders.
Jun 20 13 07:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 2,755
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan


Thank you for your input everyone! Sincerely appreciated!
Looks like we now have several methods with various precision levels which is fantastic!
It should allow flexibility in control of saturation in direct corellation to image's theme and end means!
I found Kuyper's article rather easy to digest - makes a lot of sense.
Gradient maps and colour range should allow to apply the effect quicker for "less important" work!

Superb!!!
Jun 20 13 09:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 2,755
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan


A mini update if you will:

Channel mixer and gradient maps seem to do the trick, albeit a bit primitively imho.
Luminosity masks (as per Kyuper's article) do have fair spread. I still haven't tried to narrow down selections as he described.

I seem to get a more subdued coloration when combining luminosity adjustments with adjustment layers clipped to them.
My avatar image was adjusted that way (I think I went a little haywire on d&b though)..

All in all, this adds a neat saturation control to the processing.

I am still looking for a colour replacement method that would essentially replace a tone within the image..but I guess without masking, adjusting and painting in maske there is not much to do...
Jul 17 13 10:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tulack
Posts: 502
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


R.EYE.R wrote:
Luminosity masks (as per Kyuper's article) do have fair spread. I still haven't tried to narrow down selections as he described.

If somebody need it, or if you want to save 10$, you can use mine. Had nothing else to do, so I made it.

https://app.box.com/s/mbc0n4tt431hlaig0lcu

R.EYE.R wrote:
I am still looking for a colour replacement method that would essentially replace a tone within the image..

Tone is luminosity (darker or lighter), not color. If you talking chromatic reduction it's black and white points to produce neutral gray. Not exactly understand what you need.

Jul 18 13 11:34 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 2,755
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan


Tulack wrote:

R.EYE.R wrote:
Luminosity masks (as per Kyuper's article) do have fair spread. I still haven't tried to narrow down selections as he described.

If somebody need it, or if you want to save 10$, you can use mine. Had nothing else to do, so I made it.

https://app.box.com/s/mbc0n4tt431hlaig0lcu


Tone is luminosity (darker or lighter), not color. If you talking chromatic reduction it's black and white points to produce neutral gray. Not exactly understand what you need.

Much obliged!

To simplify, I would for instance like to change a yellow to more orange tinted within a part of image, without affecting all yellows in the image. And without having to paint it in - I tried that before and the results (at least to me) look obviously fake...

Jul 18 13 10:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jakov Markovic
Posts: 1,073
Belgrade, Central Serbia, Serbia


OOOH I get it, you want to select the color without making a mask!

Well just use channels to select? Then refine that mask in the simplest way.

It's like hm... this differs in luminosity on a blue channel, so I select it, then it is different in color to what I don't need, so I remove what I don't need from selection via selective color, and then just use the result as a mask for a curve adjustment.

It's really simple, and you don't have to mask everything, you just need to know the tools. smile
Jul 18 13 10:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tulack
Posts: 502
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


I don't know your knowledge of PS, did you try Hue Saturation? Take a "Hand" and click on color you need. On the bottom of adjustment layer you will see the range of picked color. It would be wide apart. Slide them together. Then put saturation to -100. Take "+color picker" and click on color you need. It will turn to black and white. Only those pixels that Black and white affected by adjustment layer. Keep clicking until all the colors you need are black and white. Then put saturation back to zero. And use hue to change your color. If necessary cover everything with black mask and paint out.
Something like that.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/q71/s720x720/998697_10153023467275153_1783023171_n.jpg

Sorry, for taking your image.
Jul 18 13 10:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 2,755
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan


Jakov, Tulak - thank you guys.

Tulak: don't worry about it. It's great example.

I am familiar with colour replacement. Maybe I should have been more specific...
This is very close to what I been looking for.
Now, problem is - say you have a greenish yellow light source which throws a cast onto face. Changing that range of the colour as well as it's falloff.

I think I am just confusing myself and you guys..smile

Here is what I am after:
This is one of my assignments for FM some time ago:
http://www.3byk.org/imgposts/fma/IMG_5994s.jpg

I would love to use the following palette in the shot:
http://www.thefilmframes.com/wp-content … r_025c.jpg
(I don't think they allow hotlinking to images..)

Except, not entire palette, but only yellows and certain tint of blues..smile

Sorry, I am thinking in DeLuxe Paint terms where I could open image and replace palette of selected colours...smile

I think I am keeping on leading you guys in circles, sorry about that..smile
Jul 19 13 01:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Camerosity
Posts: 5,054
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


R.EYE.R wrote:
Jakov, Tulak - thank you guys.

Tulak: don't worry about it. It's great example.

I am familiar with colour replacement. Maybe I should have been more specific...
This is very close to what I been looking for.
Now, problem is - say you have a greenish yellow light source which throws a cast onto face. Changing that range of the colour as well as it's falloff.

I think I am just confusing myself and you guys..smile

Here is what I am after:
This is one of my assignments for FM some time ago:
http://www.3byk.org/imgposts/fma/IMG_5994s.jpg

I would love to use the following palette in the shot:
http://www.thefilmframes.com/wp-content … r_025c.jpg
(I don't think they allow hotlinking to images..)

Except, not entire palette, but only yellows and certain tint of blues..smile

Sorry, I am thinking in DeLuxe Paint terms where I could open image and replace palette of selected colours...smile

I think I am keeping on leading you guys in circles, sorry about that..smile

Like in this tutorial?

http://phlearn.com/how-to-apply-cinemat … our-photos

Actually this one deals with blues and oranges - but you can always skip the red.

Jul 19 13 01:48 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 2,755
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan


Camerosity: Interesting method, cheers mate! Wonder if it offers more precise control over exact colour range.....
Jul 19 13 02:03 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Camerosity
Posts: 5,054
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


R.EYE.R wrote:
Camerosity: Interesting method, cheers mate! Wonder if it offers more precise control over exact colour range.....

Don't know. I haven't tried it. The tutorial was only posted on Wednesday.

This guy does 2-3 free video tutorials a week. Most of them have something I didn't know. Some are all about things I didn't know. He cut back to one a week for a while, but I'm guessing the hits on his web site went down, because he's back to 2-3 a week.

Here are a couple of others that might be of interest:

http://phlearn.com/get-amazing-colors-w … thing-else

http://phlearn.com/forget-color-correct … -selection


This one is a longer, paid tutorial. Although it doesn’t mention it in the text, it includes a method for changing the color of the dress that you may already be familiar with. (Check the mouse-over photo for before and after.)

http://phlearn.com/pro/look-amazing-in-no-time

Jul 19 13 03:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tulack
Posts: 502
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


R.EYE.R wrote:
Except, not entire palette, but only yellows and certain tint of blues..smile

Sorry, I am thinking in DeLuxe Paint terms where I could open image and replace palette of selected colours...smile

I think I am keeping on leading you guys in circles, sorry about that..smile

This would be even easier. I thought you don't want to use ACR. Color grading done in LR. 
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/q86/945166_10153025071605153_1798948651_n.jpg https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/q73/s720x720/426181_10153025071735153_1985780470_n.jpg

Jul 19 13 11:18 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 2,755
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan


Tulack wrote:

This would be even easier. I thought you don't want to use ACR. Color grading done in LR. 
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/q86/945166_10153025071605153_1798948651_n.jpg https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/q73/s720x720/426181_10153025071735153_1985780470_n.jpg

This looks exceedingly cool atm (on Iphone right now).
Sorry, I filed for divorce from LR as it suddenly stopped supporting tethered for 5DC wink there are numerous other reasons for that move.
Curves would be preferred method in Photoshop for this?

Jul 21 13 09:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tulack
Posts: 502
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


ACR is exactly same engine, as LR.
Jul 22 13 10:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 2,755
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan


As you can see I tried and failed miserably wink
Perhaps I need to review techicality of my approach.
I can match colours nearly identically given the the source and destination, but fail to find those using the method alone (I hope I make sense here)..
Jul 22 13 09:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tulack
Posts: 502
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


I don't know what to say.
Jul 22 13 11:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 2,755
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan


I reckon I just go on exploring. It's about time I realise that I am no longer living in 16bit 4096 colour palette world wink
Jul 23 13 12:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 2,755
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan


Tulack, was your correction of my example relative or absolute?
(I was thinking long and hard about this, lol)..smile
Sep 03 13 09:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tulack
Posts: 502
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


What do you mean? I just took your picture as reference. Here is an example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtTpvxdYbfo
Sep 04 13 01:11 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 2,755
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan


Aah, so it's relative then. Basically you matched the result as you were reworking, right?
Is there a way to use absolute match? I.e value for value exactly?
Sep 04 13 03:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tulack
Posts: 502
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


Depends on picture. Colors are relative.
Sep 04 13 06:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Camerosity
Posts: 5,054
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


Here's another tutorial.

Aaron goes through the process twice to change the hue of two color ranges. I suppose you could keep repeating it ad infinitum.

http://phlearn.com/use-hue-saturation-t … to-a-photo
Sep 04 13 12:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tulack
Posts: 502
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


Not exactly what needed. We are talking processing hundreds or thousands pictures in seconds.
Sep 04 13 03:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 2,755
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan


Well, colour reproduction is indeed relative. I am just interested if absolute correction is possible given destination value.
Perhaps it's not a feasible option because of coplexity involving neighbouring colours in cases where corrected values are part of a range (as gradients in a tinted light source falloff for instance).

Actually considering the differences in sensor designs it will be nearly impossible to replicate results evenly.
Sep 04 13 09:10 pm  Link  Quote 
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