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Model
TaylorHaze
Posts: 185
Dallas, Texas, US


OK so where do I find information on getting paid for shoots?

I have had a few people now ask my rate and I really didn't know what to say...
I do TF because I don't feel like I have enough experience. I wouldn't want someone to pay me and then I let them down?!

But it seems some people get on mm and flat out start asking for paid work and get it, so maybe I'm not ballsy enough? Lacking confidence? I mean im not so lost now, I know I'm getting far better and I see things so differently and I'm not looking to do high fashion or expecting high salary, but I am starting to kind of think I could get good enough for a small rate.

Also I get this weird feeling about nudes, I love implied. Going to do a lot more work. But when I'm asked to do full blown nudes I don't feel uncomfortable just a little, frustrated. I don't want to show off all the mystery for free...is that like hooker mentality..I don't know if I should feel weird like that.

HELP?!
Jun 24 13 06:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marin Photography NYC
Posts: 7,102
New York, New York, US


TF till you are comfortable nude. Nothing worse than a scared naked model trying to pose for pay.  big_smile Shoot with someone you trust and have worked with before and try it, practice. See if you get that confidence. Tell yourself the tog is gay and treat it like business. Whatever it takes mentally to get the job done...
Jun 24 13 06:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Walter Green
Posts: 14
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Bottom line, if you are not comfortable, you are not comfortable.  Anyone pressuring for nudity... I'll leave it at that.
Jun 24 13 06:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Revenge Photography
Posts: 1,793
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


TaylorHaze wrote:
Also I get this weird feeling about nudes, I love implied. Going to do a lot more work. But when I'm asked to do full blown nudes I don't feel uncomfortable just a little, frustrated. I don't want to show off all the mystery for free...is that like hooker mentality..I don't know if I should feel weird like that.

I wouldn't say hooker... stripper mentality maybe haha

Jun 24 13 06:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Flex Photography
Posts: 5,151
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada


Determine what your comfort limits are. Those should not depend on whether you are paid or not. Use TF to get good examples of all styles up to your comfort limits. If you accept paid shoots, you will give best value if you are within your comfort limits.

It is better for you to get them to quote a rate, and then you decide if it is acceptable, considering all costs, and a small beginning fee. You could use what amount you would need to be reimbursed, if you had to take that time off work.
Jun 24 13 06:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ash Photographic
Posts: 378
Cirencester, England, United Kingdom


TaylorHaze wrote:
I don't want to show off all the mystery for free...is that like hooker mentality..I don't know if I should feel weird like that.

If posing nude makes you feel like a hooker then maybe you should ask yourself why that is?

Do you equate nude modelling to prostitution?

Do you see nudity as sinful?

Do you assume all photographers who shoot nudes are only doing it for sexual thrills?

My advice would be not to do any nude modelling until you are sure the answers to all of the above are "no".




Ash.

Jun 24 13 07:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 19,066
Chicago, Illinois, US


Taylor, Texas is pretty conservative.   Before you do full nudes make sure you'll be comfortable with people you know seeing them.   There is a good chance they will.   Cool with that?   If so.   First, factor in what it costs you too shoot.   Lets say you make $15.00 per hour at work.   Start there.   Add in gas, the length of the shoot and here's what's tricky.   How will the images be used and who's doing them.   Is a tear sheet possible?  A shoot at a old dirty factory is different then a nice studio with a MUA in air conditioning.   Is the photographer really good?   Are the images going to be used in a gallery or on-line for content.   

Maybe start around $40.00 to $60.00 per hour and adjust up or down based on the project.   Try and get a deposit before you start shooting and sign a release only after payment is made in full.   Ask all your questions before the shoot.   Try and see samples of what's expected.
Jun 24 13 07:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Nature Coast Lightworks
Posts: 1,859
Spring Hill, Florida, US


TFCD.

jf
Jun 24 13 07:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
TaylorHaze
Posts: 185
Dallas, Texas, US


Marin Photography wrote:
TF till you are comfortable nude. Nothing worse than a scared naked model trying to pose for pay.  big_smile Shoot with someone you trust and have worked with before and try it, practice. See if you get that confidence. Tell yourself the tog is gay and treat it like business. Whatever it takes mentally to get the job done...

Ha the whole the crowd is wearing underwear bit, I understand. The thing is I'm not so scared of nudes, like I said, just feel odd exposing so much and putting myself out there, and not getting paid.

My mentality, as I'd like to think of it, is a naked woman can be the most beautiful piece of art you'll find. So working with someone that gets that for free is odd. Maybe I'm stuck on relationships, you gotta work to see the goods. It might be just my preference but isn't that what...matters...

Jun 24 13 07:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
TaylorHaze
Posts: 185
Dallas, Texas, US


Revenge Photography wrote:

I wouldn't say hooker... stripper mentality maybe haha

maybe so..lol...I mean girls get paid alot for not even being that attractive or really trying to make a connection with a camera... just a here, look, that's my naughty bit. Once it's out there, it's out there and you can't go back

Jun 24 13 07:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
TaylorHaze
Posts: 185
Dallas, Texas, US


Flex Photography wrote:
Determine what your comfort limits are. Those should not depend on whether you are paid or not. Use TF to get good examples of all styles up to your comfort limits. If you accept paid shoots, you will give best value if you are within your comfort limits.

It is better for you to get them to quote a rate, and then you decide if it is acceptable, considering all costs, and a small beginning fee. You could use what amount you would need to be reimbursed, if you had to take that time off work.

quote a rate sounds good, thanks...what do you mean by beginning fee though

Jun 24 13 07:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
TaylorHaze
Posts: 185
Dallas, Texas, US


Ash Photographic wrote:
If posing nude makes you feel like a hooker then maybe you should ask yourself why that is?

Do you equate nude llamaling to prostitution?

Do you see nudity as sinful?

Do you assume all photographers who shoot nudes are only doing it for sexual thrills?

My advice would be not to do any nude llamaling until you are sure the answers to all of the above are "no".




Ash.

No, doing nude work doesn't make me feel like a hooker, it's thinking I might deserve some pay for taking my clothes off that does

Jun 24 13 07:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ash Photographic
Posts: 378
Cirencester, England, United Kingdom


TaylorHaze wrote:
So working with someone that gets that for free is odd.

If you consider TF to be 'working for free' then you are trading with the wrong people.

And also, what do you mean by "gets that" for free? A photographer (as opposed to a GWC) is there to make photos, not to see you naked.

Don't work with GWCs and you won't have this problem.



Ash.

Jun 24 13 07:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ash Photographic
Posts: 378
Cirencester, England, United Kingdom


TaylorHaze wrote:
No, doing nude work doesn't make me feel like a hooker, it's thinking I might deserve some pay for taking my clothes off that does

Then you should be thinking about how to deserve to get paid without taking your clothes off.

Once you've reached that level, then you can charge for your time, not for "showing your bits" and you won't feel like a hooker after all.



Ash.

Jun 24 13 07:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
TaylorHaze
Posts: 185
Dallas, Texas, US


Tony Lawrence wrote:
Taylor, Texas is pretty conservative.   Before you do full nudes make sure you'll be comfortable with people you know seeing them.   There is a good chance they will.   Cool with that?   If so.   First, factor in what it costs you too shoot.   Lets say you make $15.00 per hour at work.   Start there.   Add in gas, the length of the shoot and here's what's tricky.   How will the images be used and who's doing them.   Is a tear sheet possible?  A shoot at a old dirty factory is different then a nice studio with a MUA in air conditioning.   Is the photographer really good?   Are the images going to be used in a gallery or on-line for content.   

Maybe start around $40.00 to $60.00 per hour and adjust up or down based on the project.   Try and get a deposit before you start shooting and sign a release only after payment is made in full.   Ask all your questions before the shoot.   Try and see samples of what's expected.

That's the best advice so far.
Do you deny a shoot then if you have only been paid a small sum and then they say they will not shoot, nor pay the rest, unless the contract is signed beforehand?

Jun 24 13 07:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
TaylorHaze
Posts: 185
Dallas, Texas, US


Ash Photographic wrote:

Then you should be thinking about how to deserve to get paid without taking your clothes off.

Once you've reached that level, then you can charge for your time, not for "showing your bits" and you won't feel like a hooker after all.



Ash.

True, it's just..I do want to get nudes done. Tastefully, of course, not spread eagle in the front of the camera is what we are going to call "art" junk. But there are very few I would feel okay doing that with thus far without pay. That's why I say it's an odd feeling I can't shake. I don't feel good enough to get paid for the rest, but even if I might not be good at nudes I want paid...does that mean practice with someone I have worked with before and trust to do a good job, or to not work at all until I get paid for the rest first

Jun 24 13 07:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,318
Orlando, Florida, US


TaylorHaze wrote:
OK so where do I find information on getting paid for shoots?

Here, facebook, Craigslist, friends who you know who do promo work, etc.

TaylorHaze wrote:
I have had a few people now ask my rate and I really didn't know what to say...
I do TF because I don't feel like I have enough experience. I wouldn't want someone to pay me and then I let them down?!

Where's the harm in quoting something?  Worst that can happen is they say no.  If they're willing to pay you, they see something in your portfolio that find value in.

TaylorHaze wrote:
But it seems some people get on mm and flat out start asking for paid work and get it, so maybe I'm not ballsy enough? Lacking confidence? I mean im not so lost now, I know I'm getting far better and I see things so differently and I'm not looking to do high fashion or expecting high salary, but I am starting to kind of think I could get good enough for a small rate.

So ask these people who you think are getting paid work right away.  Sometimes, people will help you out of the kindness of their hearts.

TaylorHaze wrote:
Also I get this weird feeling about nudes, I love implied. Going to do a lot more work. But when I'm asked to do full blown nudes I don't feel uncomfortable just a little, frustrated. I don't want to show off all the mystery for free...is that like hooker mentality..I don't know if I should feel weird like that.

Full blown nudes.  That sounds like a great project name.
What sort of mystery do you have going on there???  You use strange terminology.

TaylorHaze wrote:
HELP?!

I'm hoping that I did.
Try answering people with a number when they ask for one.  You'd be surprised how well it works.
Don't do nudes until you want to.
If it's really a mystery, sometimes mysteries are better left unsolved.

Jun 24 13 07:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 19,066
Chicago, Illinois, US


TaylorHaze wrote:

That's the best advice so far.
Do you deny a shoot then if you have only been paid a small sum and then they say they will not shoot, nor pay the rest, unless the contract is signed beforehand?

A deposit starts the shoot and payment in full gets a signed release.   Taylor, there are photographers here who do exceptional nude work.   They don't pay but they are well worth working with.   Review portfolios before you quote rates.   Some shooters may not want to pay anything before all the paperwork is signed.   Discuss as much as possible before the session.   Don't believe that every nude model makes bank.   Many don't.   Its those that travel that seem to do better.   Again go over as many details as possible before a session.

Make a list and ask questions from it.   Try and have the critical questions replied via email.    Be friendly and polite but firm about your limits for nudes.

Jun 24 13 07:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,318
Orlando, Florida, US


TaylorHaze wrote:

True, it's just..I do want to get nudes done. Tastefully, of course, not spread eagle in the front of the camera is what we are going to call "art" junk. But there are very few I would feel okay doing that with thus far without pay. That's why I say it's an odd feeling I can't shake. I don't feel good enough to get paid for the rest, but even if I might not be good at nudes I want paid...does that mean practice with someone I have worked with before and trust to do a good job, or to not work at all until I get paid for the rest first

This is a problem statement in bold.

You are either interested in doing nudes or not interested.  If you are interested, leave the pay part out for now and just work with the very few you want to first.  If you decide that you want to do nude modeling for profit, then do that.

The "hooker" statement is:  Your work is crappy, but I'll still get naked for your camera for $X/hr.

Jun 24 13 07:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ash Photographic
Posts: 378
Cirencester, England, United Kingdom


TaylorHaze wrote:
There are very few I would feel okay doing that with thus far without pay.

Then approach those who you would feel comfortable about shooting TF nudes with and do just that.

TaylorHaze wrote:
Even if I might not be good at nudes I want paid.

Wrong attitude.

THAT is the stripper mentality.

REAL photographers are there to take great photos, not to look at your "bits".

Get some experience working with real photographers (as opposed to GWCs) and do it for the images, not for cash.

You might find that your attitude to posing nude changes as well.



Ash.

Jun 24 13 07:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 12,671
Atlanta, Georgia, US


TaylorHaze wrote:
But it seems some people get on mm and flat out start asking for paid work and get it...

But who is paying??? It's doubtful you are missing any great opportunities from these "clients"

Jun 24 13 07:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
TaylorHaze
Posts: 185
Dallas, Texas, US


Ash Photographic wrote:

If you consider TF to be 'working for free' then you are trading with the wrong people.

And also, what do you mean by "gets that" for free? A photographer (as opposed to a GWC) is there to make photos, not to see you naked.

Don't work with GWCs and you won't have this problem.



Ash.

Get's that (kind of work) for free. And I know for fact, even if someone is professional, even if it is art, seeing someone naked can also be a bonus. There is nobody to sway me other wise that some photographers,that may be serious, may be safe as a kitten, but they also very much like to see the women naked. I have read a forum here on just the thing.."why so much revolving around doing nudes"...."oh well I'm too old to see women like that naked otherwise".

But it's really not just that, like I said, being naked can make beautiful art, and getting that work, for free, I feel for me, shouldn't happen. And with my previous statements of doubt, I'm not boasting or thinking I'm just so hot that's what I deserve, it's just what I think I might have earned. Seeing as how lots of women will turn their nose up at nudes completely, no ands, ifs, or butts( wink wink) about it

Jun 24 13 07:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
TaylorHaze
Posts: 185
Dallas, Texas, US


Good Egg Productions wrote:

This is a problem statement in bold.

You are either interested in doing nudes or not interested.  If you are interested, leave the pay part out for now and just work with the very few you want to first.  If you decide that you want to do nude modeling for profit, then do that.

The "hooker" statement is:  Your work is crappy, but I'll still get naked for your camera for $X/hr.

I really think that's what I'll go for start with the few I have found

Jun 24 13 07:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ash Photographic
Posts: 378
Cirencester, England, United Kingdom


TaylorHaze wrote:
Even if it is art, seeing someone naked can also be a bonus.

If you see your nudity as "a bonus" then unless you're comfortable with "giving it away" you should NOT be shooting nudes on a trade basis.

You should just always demand cash payment for the privilege of allowing people to see "your goods" and accept that you have and will always have a stripper mentality towards nudity.

TaylorHaze wrote:
Being naked can make beautiful art, and getting that work, for free, I feel for me, shouldn't happen.

If you feel that way then you don't value the art highly enough.

It seems that only cash is king in your world.

That's fine, but don't try to pretend it's not, if that's the way you really feel.




Ash.

Jun 24 13 08:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fred Gerhart
Posts: 736
San Antonio, Texas, US


How about simply coming up with an hourly rate that you are comfortable charging for all levels of work including nudity?  This business of so much for fashion, so much for bikini, so much for implied, and so on and so forth is way too much accounting for most.

Just tell us what your hourly rate is and what your limits are. Simple and clean.

Done...

As for posing nude do not even go there. You are not ready..
Jun 24 13 08:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Prolens Photography
Posts: 489
Fullerton, California, US


MONEYS PAID to MODELS for MAGAZINE PUBLICATION, CALENDARS, PB Inc. CYBER-CLUB, AND GROUP PHOTO SESSIONS are set to the concept of demand, sales, and supply!
 
Pin-Up in Glamour, Swimwear, Lingerie = $40 per hour.
Semi-Nude, Pin-Up in Lingerie, Swimwear, Glamour = $70 per hour.
Totally-Naked, Semi-Nude, Pin-Up in Glamour, Lingerie, Nude = $100 per hour.
Money paid at signing of model release.
Jun 24 13 09:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MedievalIce
Posts: 214
Ithaca, New York, US


Determining rates can always be a tricky thing since things can vary so much from place to place and from photographer to photographer.  I would suggest that you take this as a starting point:  Calculate total time you will spend shooting and traveling and multiply that by your normal hourly wage at your day job (and maybe just a bit more, but not much), and add to that the cost of fuel.  Then divide that number by the length of the shoot (but do not include travel time!), and quote that as your hourly rate.  That way you know you're at least breaking even. 

If that rate proves to be too low and you're getting flooded with requests, great! just up the rate a bit until things even out.  In my experience it's usually easier to aim a bit low and up the rate once you realize that you're in demand, than to try and create the demand when you start too high.

You should also consider charging per commission rather than an hourly rate, and factor in things such as usage, exposure, and the skill and experience of the photographer. 

As for the nudes issue, I'd like to echo a lot of the advice that others have posted here about trading and the stripper mentality.  I completely understand where you are coming from wanting money for nudity.  And while it does seem to make sense, it may not always be in your best interest.  I did have a longer reply written, but I discarded it. I would recommend that you do listen to some of the other posters and carefully consider what they have to say.
Jun 24 13 09:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mortonovich
Posts: 5,376
San Diego, California, US


Classic Model Mayhem . . . .
Jun 24 13 10:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Know Idea
Posts: 2,931
San Diego, California, US


TaylorHaze wrote:
True, it's just..I do want to get nudes done. Tastefully, of course, not spread eagle in the front of the camera is what we are going to call "art" junk. But there are very few I would feel okay doing that with thus far without pay. That's why I say it's an odd feeling I can't shake. I don't feel good enough to get paid for the rest, but even if I might not be good at nudes I want paid...does that mean practice with someone I have worked with before and trust to do a good job, or to not work at all until I get paid for the rest first

hahhahahhahaha
No you don't. You're clearly not comfortable at all with the idea shooting nudes.

Just shelf it for a year or so while you work on your craft more. Come back to it later.

Jun 24 13 10:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
-The Dave-
Posts: 8,625
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


I'm not sure quite what to say other than you are not ready for nudes, paid or not.  Being nude at a shoot is not about your bits unless you are shooting with the wrong person. Anyone worth their salt won't care one way or another.
Jun 24 13 10:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
nyk fury
Posts: 2,918
Port Townsend, Washington, US


TaylorHaze wrote:
I don't want to show off all the mystery for free...is that like hooker mentality..I don't know if I should feel weird like that.

you are a hoot. i have no idea what to do with your mystery, but i do know it's pretty damn fun reading about it. smile

Jun 24 13 11:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


TaylorHaze wrote:
Even if it is art, seeing someone naked can also be a bonus.
TaylorHaze wrote:
Being naked can make beautiful art, and getting that work, for free, I feel for me, shouldn't happen.
TaylorHaze wrote:
Is that like hooker mentality?

It's a stripper mentality.

The only promising sign is that you're at least asking about it, but all the rest points to you NOT being ready to shoot nudes yet.

Unless you're shooting nudes deliberately (and only) to make money from GWCs - who ARE paying to see you naked, so it's basically stripping rather than modelling - then nude modelling is NOT about your bits, your "goods", "the mystery", "the money makers" or whatever other crass and demeaning term you want to apply to the parts of your body normally covered by a bikini.

All the girls who model nude for me do so on a trade basis because they love being part of creating beautiful images. Yes, they will shoot for cash when a photographer can't offer them anything for their portfolio, but their attitude is always that (clothed or nude) they're being paid for their look and modelling skills NOT just for allowing somebody to see their "bits" as you put it.

Oh, and another thing. At a real nude shoot, with a real nude model and a real photographer, nobody cares about "bits". It's about the images. Period.

Of course, nobody in their right mind would try to deny that shooting beautiful images of a beautiful model (nude or clothed) is an unpleasant task, but in my studio the atmosphere is one of a celebration of beauty (on both sides of the lens) rather than that of a peep show. Real nude models are just as comfortable nude as clothed because they don't see anything "special" or "dirty" about being nude. They enjoy being nude, they enjoy their beauty and they enjoy creating beautiful images. It's nothing to do with "bits".

However, if you feel that your "bits" have some kind of special value that warrants you getting paid cash to reveal them, then your stripper mentality has got the better of you and and you should either NOT model nude at all, ever, or you should simply resign yourself to doing nothing but stripping for GWCs, because without a decent portfolio to showcase your beauty and talent as a model, that's pretty much all that you will ever get the opportunity to do.



Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Jun 25 13 03:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Wolfy4u
Posts: 1,089
Grand Junction, Colorado, US


Just two observations......

TFCd is not working for free, it's bartering. If you modeled for a diamond ring, would that be working for free? Do TFCd, when you benefit. At this point, gaining experience and knowledge that will lead to paid (for money) jobs is being paid.

You have the nude thing a bit backwards. It makes no sense charging for nudity, that's setting up the situation that you want to avoid and that's why you feel funny about doing it. I have a feeling that's it's more your insecurity with your ability to provide the best in nude modeling that's causing your 'odd' feeling and not the 'giving up the mystery'. Btw, for us experienced photographers, it's not all that mysterious. :-)
Work until your nude modeling is worth being paid in cash, then you'll be doing it for the right reasons. Btw, nude modeling, especially 'art nudes' opens up an area that requires the most skill of all, and can provide that most satisfaction or all.
Jun 25 13 03:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Nogawd Photography
Posts: 105
Cleveland, Ohio, US


ChiMo wrote:
Classic Model Mayhem . . . .

+1 

It was a rather entertaining read, was it not?

Jun 25 13 04:17 am  Link  Quote 
Model
TaylorHaze
Posts: 185
Dallas, Texas, US


Just skimming responses I've missed..but just going to say I value implied more than art nudes. Mayhem the right word considering people don't read, look too into things, and crave the drama for the business. When I say mystery I dont mean there is a magical treasure chest hidden beneath my panties, I am saying the mystery that implied holds, for all models. I thank the ones that actually helped and whom I have had personal messages between. As for the rest, I'm off to other forums, enjoy your mayhem elsewhere
Jun 25 13 09:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Nogawd Photography
Posts: 105
Cleveland, Ohio, US


TaylorHaze wrote:
I'm off to other forums, enjoy your mayhem elsewhere

Another one bites the dust, but there will always be new ones.

Jun 25 13 09:59 am  Link  Quote 
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