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Photographer
D Smyre
Posts: 4
New York, New York, US


How many edited images would you offer models  for a tf casting???
Jul 08 13 12:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lars R Peterson
Posts: 1,073
Seattle, Washington, US


2 or 3 per look.
Jul 08 13 12:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Grin Without a Cat
Posts: 427
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


I am probably in the minority on this, but when I do a shoot, the model always gets the exact same number of shots as I do.  That is, however many I decide are decent and worth editing.  It could be 10 or it could be 50 or more...just depends on how the shoot goes.
The only difference between what I end up with and what the model ends up with is that mine are full-res and the model's are resized to portfolio res (800 px).
Jul 08 13 12:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ShotbyRon
Posts: 767
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US


I've had some TF shoots where I've given back only 10, others where I have given back 50+. It depends on length of shoot, outfits and how experienced your model is. Discuss with your model what they thinks is fair, and go from there.
Jul 08 13 01:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Svetlana Muerte
Posts: 905
Austin, Texas, US


I think I usually get anywhere from 2-10 pictures from a tf shoot.  2-4 pics per look is pretty typical.
Jul 08 13 01:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark C Smith
Posts: 775
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Depends how many I like. Depends how long we shot for. Usually around 10-12. I've had great shoots where I just couldn't decide and where not much retouching was needed so I sent quite a few more.

I always decide with the model at the shoot what our process will be...it's usually I sort through and pick the best of the bunch. Only once has the model asked for all the shots.
Jul 08 13 01:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
L A U B E N H E I M E R
Posts: 8,482
Seattle, Washington, US


D Smyre wrote:
How many edited images would you offer models  for a tf casting???

you only need one good photo.

try to only give your best.

Jul 08 13 01:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J Millman Photography
Posts: 197
Norwich, England, United Kingdom


I generally give the model more than I keep for myself.
I will give them any that I like and others that I deem to be acceptable (although I do not want them myself). The reason for this is purely because I realise that what appeals to me, doesn't necessarily appeal to everyone else.
And, as others here have said, it all depends on the shoot, anything between 2 or 3 to 30 or so.
Jul 08 13 01:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Images by MR
Posts: 7,531
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


L A U B E N H E I M E R wrote:

you only need one good photo.

try to only give your best.

So if you do a 3 hr TF shooting you're just giving one photo?

Jul 08 13 01:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JAE
Posts: 2,103
West Chester, Pennsylvania, US


I promise 5-6 (or 2-3 per look) and usually deliver 8.  Granted 1 really strong picture is all I personally want from a shoot, but a lot of models like a few to post on Facebook and various other places.
Jul 08 13 01:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gippingvalleyphotograph
Posts: 41
Ipswich, England, United Kingdom


I am a hobbyist and not of the same standard as others on this site. I tend to say I'm aiming for five, but then usually provide many more.

Depends how the shoot goes. If I only get five good shots, no one is getting less than was offered. If its more, then everyone is happy (I hope).

I also offer to re-work any images if the model has a specific 'want'.

Most importantly, I discuss with the model in advance so that there is less scope for misunderstanding and disapointment.
Jul 08 13 01:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ForeverFotos
Posts: 6,620
Indianapolis, Indiana, US


I'm usually in the range of 20 to 25 images for a half day shoot, depending on the quality of the images available. The model gets both hi-res and web-sized images. I haven't had any complaints at all about this number.
Jul 08 13 01:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
terrysphotocountry
Posts: 4,064
Rochester, New York, US


Lars R Peterson wrote:
2 or 3 per look.

Same

Jul 08 13 01:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Innovative Imagery
Posts: 2,815
Los Angeles, California, US


TF is NOT free !  It is an exchange of services as a form of payment.  Your work has a value.  Their work has a value.  Try to make the most even exchange of value between the parties and that way, no one is taken advantage of.

Coming from a portrait photographer perspective, one of my images is worth anywhere from $300 - $1500, depending on duration of shoot, size and finishing (retouching, mounting, etc.) of the print.  Plus framing!  Commercial work is higher due to industry standards and the more involved shoots with higher costs.

A "model" or MUA or Stylist services are each worth their going rate.  Let's say $300, for example.  This could be one hour or all day, depending on their price rate and experience.   So if we do a TF shoot together and each gets one image, that is fair and they "should be" happy.

As the copyright holder, I do get the opportunity to make copies and use them as additional sales, or I wouldn't be able to compensate the MUA and stylist !  Those are additional uses.  That is how and why this works this way.

If their rate is $300 per hour and I agree and shoot with them and we shoot for 3 hours, they they can reasonably expect at least three images, UNLESS the shoot was of such a complex nature (special effects, animals, pours, etc.) that only one hero image was created and they should know that possibility going into the shoot.

They "shouldn't"  expect one copy of every image, as that would not be a balanced exchange of value and each file created may only be ground work or foundation for the one image that was the "winner".

My preference is to do a TF shoot where I use a model to test a few lights or some design goal and then I do a session for him/her and make an image that solves a need for them.  We do a selection and then I do the editing and retouching to create the file or print for them.

I just did a session, with a beginning model and the time spent testing the lights was broken up by reviewing those images and providing feedback.  By the time we got to doing her images, she was much more educated and relaxed and we got several great images to choose from and deliver.  Definitely a win win.

So it makes no difference if the work is being used commercially or not.  If the value of your participation is adequate for your participation, then it is FINE!  IT is NOT FREE!

On the other hand, if you feel your work is not being adequately compensated by the exchange, take a pass.  Just don't say it is free.   Say it is inadequate for your needs and move on.
Jul 08 13 02:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J Millman Photography
Posts: 197
Norwich, England, United Kingdom


Images by MR wrote:

So if you do a 3 hr TF shooting you're just giving one photo?

Ha ha!....good point!

Jul 08 13 02:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Camerosity
Posts: 5,087
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


One, maybe two photos per look.

I rarely use more than one photo per look. Most good models are looking for one true portfolio-quality photos to add to their portfolios.

Considering that most of my shoots are 4-6 hours, and my average retouching time per photo is about three hours, I think that's a fair trade. I spend more time selecting the photos to retouch from a shoot than I spent on the shoot.
Jul 08 13 06:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BP Glamour
Posts: 834
San Bernardino, California, US


I usually do 5 per look! Or, If it's hard to choose which ones, it could be up to 10.
Jul 08 13 06:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Phase Shift Photography
Posts: 86
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Camerosity wrote:
I spend more time selecting the photos to retouch from a shoot than I spent on the shoot.

Interesting.

I typically know which one(s) is the "money shot" moments after I snap the pic, so I limit the amount of time choosing images to about 20 minutes. 

In response to the original question -- it depends.  If the model is really good, they receive more retouched images because I'm more inclined to retouch them.

Jul 08 13 06:42 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
-JAY-
Posts: 6,428
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Lars R Peterson wrote:
2 or 3 per look.

This for me.

Jul 08 13 07:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Camerosity
Posts: 5,087
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


Camerosity wrote:
I spend more time selecting the photos to retouch from a shoot than I spent on the shoot.
Phase Shift Photography wrote:
Interesting.

I typically know which one(s) is the "money shot" moments after I snap the pic, so I limit the amount of time choosing images to about 20 minutes. 

In response to the original question -- it depends.  If the model is really good, they receive more retouched images because I'm more inclined to retouch them.

I'm using an older machine. It takes 27 seconds just to open and close a 14-bit, 24.5 megapixel RAW file - without even looking at it, checking it at a higher magnification, looking for various ways to crop it, etc. I look at each photo at least once, Generally it takes 3-4 passes through a diminishing number of photos with each pass to select *the* photo for each look. The final selection usually comes down to details and nuances.

Jul 08 13 08:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
White Lace Studios
Posts: 1,719
Mesa, Arizona, US


2-3 per look. (the length of the shoot is irrelevant).

most of the models, unless new, will tell you they don't want you inundating them with a ton of photos they then need to cull. they don't want or need that many - they want the best handful from the shoot. Same as you.
Jul 10 13 02:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BlueMoonPics
Posts: 4,158
New York, New York, US


I give up to 8 retouched images.  It takes me quite a while to retouch each image.  I may lower this to about 2 or 3 per look since my time is getting even shorter now.
Jul 10 13 02:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AG Media 13
Posts: 227
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia


4-6
Jul 10 13 11:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sarah Jane Photographie
Posts: 184
Saint Catharines-Niagara, Ontario, Canada


It would honestly depend on how many I liked and edited.
I think I gave my model 6 from the shoot we did last month.
Jul 11 13 12:08 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


If anybody asks I say a 'minimum' of 3, total, not per look.

Not every look may work and some looks may only yield one image I can be bothered to retouch.

For tests I do what I feel like - every minute of my time spent retouching after the shoot is finished is effectively a free gift from me for a model who has already gone home and has nothing more to do but wait for me to retouch and email her some images.

If a model wants a set number of images etc. then it ceases to be a trade and she can pay me to retouch them!




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com
Jul 11 13 12:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 2,784
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan


Sorry, don't do TF.
For collaborations all parties get to chose as many images as they need - it's a joint effort after all.
Jul 11 13 12:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ash Photographic
Posts: 378
Cirencester, England, United Kingdom


R.EYE.R wrote:
For collaborations all parties get to chose as many images as they need.

You will live to regret that.

Come back in a few years and tell us how it worked out for you and at what point you decided to be less 'generous' wink





Ash.

Jul 11 13 01:00 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 2,784
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan


Ash Photographic wrote:

You will live to regret that.

Come back in a few years and tell us how it worked out for you and at what point you decided to be less 'generous' wink





Ash.

I don't see that happening any time in a foreseeable future wink
Given the facts that I never pray and spray and that I choose my collaborations carefully wink

But generally the more you give...wink

Jul 11 13 01:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


R.EYE.R wrote:
I never pray and spray.

What does that have to do with anything?

Surely you at least edit your output down to selects before allowing your team to choose?






Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Jul 11 13 01:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 2,784
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan


That Italian Guy wrote:

What does that have to do with anything?

Surely you at least edit your output down to selects before allowing your team to choose?






Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Bon Giorno!!

It has to do with the final shot count.
And no, I present them all results. I do advise on some selections of course.

Jul 11 13 01:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marciofs
Posts: 1,944
Freiburg, Baden-W├╝rttemberg, Germany


From 3 up to 10 if the shot went really good.
I shoot film so I barely get more than 50 images per shoot.




Marcio Faustino
Marcio Faustino - Traditional Prints
Are you an aspiring model?
Jul 11 13 02:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Image Works Photography
Posts: 2,890
Orlando, Florida, US


This topic comes up very often. While in the past I have given up to 50 pictures I now think the models don't want that many. Its overwhelming for them. I now aim at doing no more than 10 per look.
Jul 11 13 08:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,304
Salem, Oregon, US


i post a session gallery and let the model choose her favorites and then i retouch as many as i can. but usually at least 2/hour of shoot time, sometimes a lot more if the retouching is easy or the shoot went really well or i really liked the model. often a model only uses a couple on mayhem but they can show more on their facebook.
Jul 11 13 08:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Camabs
Posts: 323
Utrecht, Utrecht, Netherlands


5-10 for most shoots (2 looks). I typically use 1-3 myself, but I give the model something to choose from.
Jul 11 13 08:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


R.EYE.R wrote:
And no, I present them all results.

Big mistake.

Never let the models or team see ALL the images - somebody will always want one you hate or which is out of focus or accidentally cropped etc., causing you headaches and lots of wasted time in post.

Only show them your 'selects' - ie. those images you have picked out as being "OK" for people to see and use. In my case, this is generally around 10% of what I shoot.

The images you give out are your shop window; they represent you. Why would you ever allow anything but your best work (or at least work you're comfortable with) to see the light of day?



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Jul 11 13 08:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Yugoboy
Posts: 77
Rochester, New York, US


Grin Without a Cat wrote:
I am probably in the minority on this, but when I do a shoot, the model always gets the exact same number of shots as I do.  That is, however many I decide are decent and worth editing.  It could be 10 or it could be 50 or more...just depends on how the shoot goes.
The only difference between what I end up with and what the model ends up with is that mine are full-res and the model's are resized to portfolio res (800 px).

With the 2 shoots I've done so far, this is the process I've been following.  I watermark whatever I produce and toss up the shots on a Shared folder in my SkyDrive.

I am following the advice and avoiding just handing over an unedited CD/DVD.

Jul 11 13 08:37 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Valenten Photography
Posts: 265
Balikpapan, Kalimantan Timur, Indonesia


I try to give more than 10, less than 20. That's a lot of retouching work but sometimes (often) my preferred picts are different than those preferred by the model. I'm trying to make everyone happy and I'm selecting pictures "for everyone".

Valenten
http://www.valentenphotography.com
Jul 11 13 08:41 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Philip R
Posts: 575
Agoura Hills, California, US


6-7 pictures
1-2 per look
Jul 11 13 04:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 2,784
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan


That Italian Guy wrote:

Big mistake.

Never let the models or team see ALL the images - somebody will always want one you hate or which is out of focus or accidentally cropped etc., causing you headaches and lots of wasted time in post.

Only show them your 'selects' - ie. those images you have picked out as being "OK" for people to see and use. In my case, this is generally around 10% of what I shoot.

The images you give out are your shop window; they represent you. Why would you ever allow anything but your best work (or at least work you're comfortable with) to see the light of day?



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Ciao Bello!

People I chose to work with are intelligent enough to chose interesting photos coinciding with my choices (hence I work with them, of course wink).
If a photo is OOF I tell them I won't retouch it and they understand.
Besides, what patronising approach to creative partner is questioning their intelligence?
It would be obnoxious of me to assume that people I shared the idea with will start chosing random fail shots, would it not?

You will find girls (and especially so Russian) chosing on completely different criteria than us photographers. And guess whom girls will share their photos with if not their female friends?

I haven't worked out my style yet, so most TF work is dedicated to testing equipment and polishing my skills. For each image I photoshop I get +1 to my skill and I would never do it just for myself for many valid reasons - in this situation girls are the catalyst.

Having said that, I am not shooting TF anymore except select few I shot with before and agency models. Though total frame counts of those shots are in 50-100 ballpark.

Plus my ego is not size of Windsor Castle wink

Jul 11 13 05:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ruben Sanchez
Posts: 3,416
San Antonio, Texas, US


I usually give 5 edited photos, which I let the model pick for herself.  Usually I do one for myself, which does not count as one of the 5.
Jul 11 13 05:34 pm  Link  Quote 
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