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Photographer
Green Grape
Posts: 270
West Paterson, New Jersey, US


Many go nuts over what 'expensive'  lighting equipment to use in order to get the right shot. Not many people are curious of controlling their camera. I always suggest people to read their cameras manual & start off with what they can afford being that Light is Light. (unless quality is also a in interest)

I mean, shouldn't photographers master the camera first-then discover how light works?
Jul 10 13 06:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
m_s_photo
Posts: 601
Port Moody, British Columbia, Canada


Oowee. I can hardly wait for the responses to this one. Good luck.
Jul 10 13 06:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MMR Digital
Posts: 1,661
Doylestown, Pennsylvania, US


DEJA VU MM?
Jul 10 13 06:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PhotographyByLeon
Posts: 64
Coral Gables, Florida, US


Awaiting the replies.
Jul 10 13 06:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Ziff
Posts: 4,105
Los Angeles, California, US


Camera operation isn't very difficult, but most people start off by shooting natural light anyway and more or less figuring out how shutter speed and aperture work, and what's the appropriate ISO (or film speed, if you work with film).

Once you get serious though, there's nothing more important than light and lighting.  Better lighting systems give you more control, more consistency, and open a world of possibilities in terms of modifiers and light shapers.

Light is light, but the way you control it is everything in photography.  And in any case--there's no manual you can read on having a good eye.
Jul 10 13 06:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
L A U B E N H E I M E R
Posts: 8,383
Seattle, Washington, US


iso 400....check
shutter speed 1/125....check
aperture f3.2...check

ok....now on to the lighting.

and guess what? my all important camera manual didn't even suggest those settings!
Jul 10 13 06:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tulack
Posts: 516
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


Here is one of my favorite photographers.

http://500px.com/89205537525

Only natural light. Know your camera, know light, know post. "Cheap" photoshoot every time. Only camera, sometimes reflector.
Jul 10 13 06:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leighthenubian
Posts: 2,749
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


L A U B E N H E I M E R wrote:
iso 400....check
shutter speed 1/125....check
aperture f3.2...check

ok....now on to the lighting.

and guess what? my all important camera manual didn't even suggest those settings!

This

+ I hate the "Strobist" movement. It started out as a way to light images inexpensively and became light everything until no shadows exist.

Jul 10 13 06:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Green Grape
Posts: 270
West Paterson, New Jersey, US


Brian Ziff wrote:
Camera operation isn't very difficult, but most people start off by shooting natural light anyway and more or less figuring out how shutter speed and aperture work, and what's the appropriate ISO (or film speed, if you work with film).

Once you get serious though, there's nothing more important than light and lighting.  Better lighting systems give you more control, more consistency, and open a world of possibilities in terms of modifiers and light shapers.

Light is light, but the way you control it is everything in photography.  And in any case--there's no manual you can read on having a good eye.

No, camera operation isn't difficult. If you read the manual and know..
But What If a Volunteer job calls for a group shot of 20. The person using the camera may need to know what appropriate settings are needed for a well focused & lit shot. Playing the guessing game Will turn out looking like it was shot with a flip phone.

L A U B E N H E I M E R wrote:
iso 400....check
shutter speed 1/125....check
aperture f3.2...check

ok....now on to the lighting.

and guess what? my all important camera manual didn't even suggest those settings!

How can you decide all those settings when basic lenses don't even reach 3.2 & What if the person is doing a sports shoot at 200mm are you still going to shoot at 125?

Jul 10 13 06:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leighthenubian
Posts: 2,749
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Green Grape Photography wrote:

Brian Ziff wrote:
Camera operation isn't very difficult, but most people start off by shooting natural light anyway and more or less figuring out how shutter speed and aperture work, and what's the appropriate ISO (or film speed, if you work with film).

Once you get serious though, there's nothing more important than light and lighting.  Better lighting systems give you more control, more consistency, and open a world of possibilities in terms of modifiers and light shapers.

Light is light, but the way you control it is everything in photography.  And in any case--there's no manual you can read on having a good eye.

No, camera operation isn't difficult. If you read the manual and know..
But What If a Volunteer job calls for a group shot of 20. The person using the camera may need to know what appropriate settings are needed for a well focused & lit shot. Playing the guessing game Will turn out looking like it was shot with a flip phone.


How can you decide all those settings when basic lenses don't even reach 3.2 & What if the person is doing a sports shoot at 200mm are you still going to shoot at 125?

If someone is shooting sports I hardly think fancy lighting is their main concern.

Also, even basic lenses start around 3.5. ISO 400 is a basic starting point for the past 50 years at least when shooting indoors without artificial lighting.

Did you even read the OP?

Jul 10 13 06:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,113
Tampa, Florida, US


Green Grape Photography wrote:
I mean, shouldn't photographers master the camera first-then discover how light works?

Let me ask you this. Who is going to to be further along the curve to attaining excellent photography?

Person A - who has mastered light but has never picked up a dslr? Or, Person B - who has read their manual, "mastered" the technical functions of the camera, but hasn't a clue about using light?

I'm putting my money on Person A.

It doesn't take very long to learn how to use a camera and its functions. Mastering light is far more elusive, something many spend years trying to achieve, and what truly sets apart the great photographers from the "meh."

Jul 10 13 06:35 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
-JAY-
Posts: 6,299
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Leighthenubian wrote:

This

+ I hate the "Strobist" movement. It started out as a way to light images inexpensively and became light everything until no shadows exist.

I have never seen the "obliterate shadows" mentality of strobists, and I have been following them since David Hobby started the hype... I myself own 16 speedlites, am a devout "lighting on a budget" enthusiast, and typically LOVE shadows.

Jul 10 13 06:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
salvatori.
Posts: 3,720
State College, Pennsylvania, US


Green Grape Photography wrote:
Many go nuts over what 'expensive'  lighting equipment to use... [snip]

... and many don't.

It's a wash.

Jul 10 13 06:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl JW Johnston
Posts: 9,399
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


-JAY- wrote:
I myself own 16 speedlites, am a devout "lighting on a budget" enthusiast.

lighting on a budget...a budget??...with several thousand in speedlites.. tongue
???
...riiiiiiiight....wink

Jul 10 13 06:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
L A U B E N H E I M E R
Posts: 8,383
Seattle, Washington, US


Green Grape Photography wrote:
No, camera operation isn't difficult. If you read the manual and know..
But What If a Volunteer job calls for a group shot of 20. The person using the camera may need to know what appropriate settings are needed for a well focused & lit shot. Playing the guessing game Will turn out looking like it was shot with a flip phone.


How can you decide all those settings when basic lenses don't even reach 3.2 & What if the person is doing a sports shoot at 200mm are you still going to shoot at 125?

well, the camera isn't going to decide them for me. and the person is me. i don't shoot sports. i make portraits at 85mm.

my camera doesn't have live view. i don't tether. i don't use a tripod. i don't use a zoom lens. i use only 4GB memory cards.

maybe i'm just a simple person. i find a pair of shoes i like and i'm off for a walk.

Ellen, June 29, 2013
http://archives.marklaubenheimer.com/image.php?image=/models/2013/06-29-2013_Ellen/ellen2web08.jpg&quality=70&width=600

Jul 10 13 06:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark C Smith
Posts: 734
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


You need light to make a photograph. At least an interesting one. Why shouldn't people worry about mastering it?

I'd say it's a lot easier to master a DSLR than it is to master the art of controlling light.
Jul 10 13 06:44 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
-JAY-
Posts: 6,299
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Karl Johnston wrote:

lighting on a budget...a budget??...with several thousand in speedlites.. tongue
???
...riiiiiiiight....wink

Here's the one that stretches the budget: Yn560II (9 of those) the rest are more reasonably priced... I know #ballin #highroller, right?

Jul 10 13 06:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
L Bass
Posts: 948
Nacogdoches, Texas, US


Tulack wrote:
Here is one of my favorite photographers.

http://500px.com/89205537525

Only natural light. Know your camera, know light, know post. "Cheap" photoshoot every time. Only camera, sometimes reflector.

You might want to tweak that to say... 'and a TON of post.' If you know your camera and light... you don't have to know squat about post, unless you're going after totally unrealistic results.

Jul 10 13 06:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 5,551
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


-JAY- wrote:

Here's the one that stretches the budget: Yn560II (9 of those) the rest are more reasonably priced... I know #ballin #highroller, right?

Jay is right on the money and really was a big help in influencing me to buy some speedlights. I have a complete set of Einsteins and a wide array of modifiers but I often have a lot more fun with my 6-pack of Yongnuos that are a lot easier to take with me on remote shoots.

Jul 10 13 06:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R.EYE.R
Posts: 2,757
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan


Isn't it highly relative as well as a subject to individual learning preference?
Jul 10 13 06:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Ziff
Posts: 4,105
Los Angeles, California, US


Green Grape Photography wrote:
No, camera operation isn't difficult. If you read the manual and know..
But What If a Volunteer job calls for a group shot of 20. The person using the camera may need to know what appropriate settings are needed for a well focused & lit shot. Playing the guessing game Will turn out looking like it was shot with a flip phone.

I'm not sure what a volunteer job is, or what it matters how many people are in the photo, but obviously you have to know what the basic adjustable parameters of your camera and lens do.  Like I said, though, it's really not complicated.  Maybe I'm just a savant, but I've never had to read the manual to understand aperture, shutter speed and ISO.

I feel it should go without saying that if you're a photographer, you should know how your camera works.

Jul 10 13 06:53 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
-JAY-
Posts: 6,299
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Shot By Adam wrote:

Jay is right on the money and really was a big help in influencing me to buy some speedlights. I have a complete set of Einsteins and a wide array of modifiers but I often have a lot more fun with my 6-pack of Yongnuos that are a lot easier to take with me on remote shoots.

My pleasure.

I can fit 8 flashes (alongside my 2 bodies, and 4 lenses) in my backpack, with a couple different modifiers attached (softboxes, umbrellaboxes, 86" plm, etc strapped to the backpack) with a heavy duty stand in each hand and hike anywhere, shoot anything, in reasonable comfort.

Jul 10 13 06:56 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
-JAY-
Posts: 6,299
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Green Grape Photography wrote:
I always suggest people to read their cameras manual & start off with what they can afford being that Light is Light. (unless quality is also a in interest)

I mean, shouldn't photographers master the camera first-then discover how light works?

Have you SEEN the D600 manual?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl … pc7k#t=05s

Jul 10 13 06:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Green Grape
Posts: 270
West Paterson, New Jersey, US


Brian Ziff wrote:
I feel it should go without saying that if you're a photographer, you should know how your camera works.

That is was trying to say. know how your camera works first

Jul 10 13 07:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GER Photography
Posts: 7,558
Imperial, California, US


It's all about the light, the camera is simply the tool you must learn to use to capture the light.
Jul 10 13 07:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Green Grape
Posts: 270
West Paterson, New Jersey, US


-JAY- wrote:

Have you SEEN the D600 manual?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl … pc7k#t=05s

haha.... come on.. your Killing me

Jul 10 13 07:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
In Balance Photography
Posts: 3,370
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Green Grape Photography wrote:

That is was trying to say. know how your camera works first

Do you think that people that worry about the lighting equipment don't know how their camera works?

Jul 10 13 07:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chronos Creations
Posts: 353
Benidorm, Valencia, Spain


Photography means Drawing with light.

Light is definitely the most important part (IMO). Without light hitting the right side/ at the right places/ etc, even the best composed photos can look dull.

If I had the budget my lighting setup would be a lot more impressive than a couple of flashes tongue I can always dream.

But of course people should learn how to use their cameras to the highest point, no point buying a Harley if you cant ride a moped!

Then again, never met someone who thinks about lighting when they don't know about their camera....
Jul 10 13 07:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
1k-words-photograpy
Posts: 322
Leesburg, Virginia, US


Why do we care so much? If you like Profoto or Einstien, or sunlight or if you shoot by with matches what difference does it make? Shoot with what you want to shoot with, that's the end all be all of it.
Jul 10 13 07:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
marknmanna
Posts: 305
Golden City, Missouri, US


I'm not opposed to using any tools available to get the images I want. Whether it be speedlights. studio strobes, window light, reflector, software.
It's all there to use for a reason. When a photographer says " I only shoot natural light" or" I don't post-process because I get it "right" in camera", I wonder why anyone would self-impose restraints on themselves. Do what works for you.
Jul 10 13 07:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
jb nyc
Posts: 5
New York, New York, US


L Bass wrote:

You might want to tweak that to say... 'and a TON of post.' If you know your camera and light... you don't have to know squat about post, unless you're going after totally unrealistic results.

There is enough post work in there to kill 10 men.

Jul 10 13 07:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chronos Creations
Posts: 353
Benidorm, Valencia, Spain


L Bass wrote:
You might want to tweak that to say... 'and a TON of post.' If you know your camera and light... you don't have to know squat about post, unless you're going after totally unrealistic results.
jb nyc wrote:
There is enough post work in there to kill 10 men.

Yet it still has its own style and there are definitely a lot of people who love that stuff.

Jul 10 13 07:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
1k-words-photograpy
Posts: 322
Leesburg, Virginia, US


marknmanna wrote:
I'm not opposed to using any tools available to get the images I want. Whether it be speedlights. studio strobes, window light, reflector, software.
It's all there to use for a reason. When a photographer says " I only shoot natural light" or" I don't post-process because I get it "right" in camera", I wonder why anyone would self-impose restraints on themselves. Do what works for you.

I don't mind so much if someone says I don't do X or Y. That's cool. I myself don't do much post because I don't like it.

It's when people say "You are so wrong for doing X or Y" that it gets all feisty.

Jul 10 13 07:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KellyKooperPhotography
Posts: 54
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


Brian Ziff wrote:
Camera operation isn't very difficult, but most people start off by shooting natural light anyway and more or less figuring out how shutter speed and aperture work, and what's the appropriate ISO (or film speed, if you work with film).

Once you get serious though, there's nothing more important than light and lighting.  Better lighting systems give you more control, more consistency, and open a world of possibilities in terms of modifiers and light shapers.

Light is light, but the way you control it is everything in photography.  And in any case--there's no manual you can read on having a good eye.

Spot on. Lighting is absolutely essential and once you have control over it, you have the power to create suspense, emotion and drama. It's vital. I'm always learning, I don't think I've mastered it yet - but I'm all too aware of its importance.

Jul 10 13 07:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Green Grape
Posts: 270
West Paterson, New Jersey, US


Green Grape Photography wrote:
Many go nuts over what 'expensive'  lighting equipment to use in order to get the right shot. Not many people are curious of controlling their camera. I always suggest people to read their cameras manual & start off with what they can afford being that Light is Light. (unless quality is also a in interest)

I mean, shouldn't photographers master the camera first-then discover how light works?

Read slowly. I never said light was NOT important. I said master the camera settings First.

Shutter, Aperture, ISO,
Speed light
White balance
Rules like inverse square, maybe

instead of buying your first slr then 5 min later buying a $500 strobe set. (if they want to whatever. just saying)

what did i say that was so Off?

Jul 10 13 07:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
In Balance Photography
Posts: 3,370
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Green Grape Photography wrote:

Read slowly. I never said light was NOT important. I said master the camera settings First.

Shutter, Aperture, ISO,
Speed light
White balance
Rules like inverse square, maybe

instead of buying your first slr then 5 min later buying a $500 strobe set. (if they want to whatever. just saying)

what did i say that was so Off?

Who are these people you are talking about?

Jul 10 13 07:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
L A U B E N H E I M E R
Posts: 8,383
Seattle, Washington, US


Green Grape Photography wrote:
Many go nuts over what 'expensive'  lighting equipment to use in order to get the right shot. Not many people are curious of controlling their camera. I always suggest people to read their cameras manual & start off with what they can afford being that Light is Light. (unless quality is also a in interest)

I mean, shouldn't photographers master the camera first-then discover how light works?
Green Grape Photography wrote:
Read slowly. I never said light was NOT important. I said master the camera settings First.

Shutter, Aperture, ISO,
Speed light
White balance
Rules like inverse square, maybe

instead of buying your first slr then 5 min later buying a $500 strobe set. (if they want to whatever. just saying)

what did i say that was so Off?

you wrote, "Light is Light. (unless quality is also a in interest)"

that's like saying sushi is sushi, unless taste is also an interest.

jiro dreams of sushi. mark dreams of light.

Jul 10 13 07:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Green Grape
Posts: 270
West Paterson, New Jersey, US


L A U B E N H E I M E R wrote:

you wrote, "Light is Light. (unless quality is also a in interest)"

that's like saying sushi is sushi, unless taste is also an interest.

jiro dreams of sushi. mark dreams of light.

Actually i said "start off with what they can afford" meaning non name brand lighting equipment instead of the High Quality

Jul 10 13 07:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Azimuth Arts
Posts: 1,420
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Leighthenubian wrote:

If someone is shooting sports I hardly think fancy lighting is their main concern.

Also, even basic lenses start around 3.5. ISO 400 is a basic starting point for the past 50 years at least when shooting indoors without artificial lighting.

Did you even read the OP?

I mostly agree with you but he is the OP smile

Jul 10 13 07:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
In Balance Photography
Posts: 3,370
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Green Grape Photography wrote:

Actually i said "start off with what they can afford" meaning non name brand lighting equipment instead of the High Quality

Who is starting off with equipment they can't afford?

I think these people are a figment ...

Jul 10 13 07:36 pm  Link  Quote 
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