K E E L I N G wrote:
You can be wildly successful with great light and a shitty camera... but it's almost impossible to be successful with shitty light and a great camera.

Unless of course your camera has a fabulous low light sensor and possesses the ability to dig deep into the low light trenches and record amazing images at much higher than average ISOs...







GO NIKON!...

In Balance Photography wrote:

L A U B E N H E I M E R wrote:
people keep posting, right?

Those people. What are we going to do with them?

Attempt to educate, so they can improve to where they can actually see what is being discussed; or ignore them, and let them fall by the wayside. There's advantages and disadvantages to both.

Kevin Connery wrote:

Attempt to educate, so they can improve to where they can actually see what is being discussed; or ignore them, and let them fall by the wayside. There's advantages and disadvantages to both.

^^ Yep.

Tulack wrote:
Here is one of my favorite photographers.

http://500px.com/89205537525

Only natural light. Know your camera, know light, know post. "Cheap" photoshoot every time. Only camera, sometimes reflector.

With that much post it's almost impossible to say what they actually recorded on the chip..

Green Grape Photography wrote:
I mean, shouldn't photographers master the camera first-then discover how light works?

It's kinda one in the same. Although the tech curve of learning the camera is often much shorter than learning how to see light, let alone manipulate or control it.


ETA: Holy crap, I didn't realize I posted in a fustercluck of a thread. 

L A U B E N H E I M E R wrote:

tim walker:

Holy shit!!!

Wow!

Natalia_Taffarel wrote:

Cognitive dissonance.

I just want to point out to anyone reading, you can take this poster's points and invert them and you have the path to success:

Don't rely on what you like, that will change as your eyes get trained

Trust in those who are on the top of the scale in the market you want to be (even if you don't understand why)

Accept criticism from profesionals and grow on it

Before rejecting advice, try it for yourself and study results

Don't ever be happy with your work

+1

Camerosity wrote:

It kinda started out that way. But it's turned into the guy who thinks he has all the answers talking down to everyone else.

And to me, the worst part is that he is not totally wrong. Which is what makes it so difficult to educate him. He constantly reverts back to those parts where he is right and then refuses to hear anything that contradicts where is is completely wrong.

This is very much  beginning to sound like a typical freshman year Art School discussion, with one person who has read a little bit by some opinionated artists.

In fact if one has the patience to filter through the dross of his comments, there is some good stuff. But if you know enough to see the good amongst the dross, then you do not need his comments. What is scary, is that for those who do not already know, they will get filled with an enormous amount of BS.

Natalia_Taffarel wrote:
Don't ever be happy with your work

Actually, be happy with your current and best work... cause there's millions who probably haven't see it yet... BUT... use it as a benchmark to improve on your photographic endeavors of the future...

K E E L I N G wrote:
You can be wildly successful with great light and a shitty camera... but it's almost impossible to be successful with shitty light and a great camera.

Sorry, but many camera retailers would disagree with you.

Although they may be a tad biased.

ChiMo wrote:
a fustercluck of a thread. 

I like.

This I will steal.

ChiMo wrote:
a fustercluck of a thread. 

But that's OK... you can bank on it never getting locked... as the primary moderator of this forum has invested far too much time responding to posts listed in this thread to ever let that happen...

Warrenjrphotography-SJ wrote:
No point in reading/responding when the thread has gone from factual to political!

So when you have something to say it's 'fact' and when a whole bunch of people with vastly more experience point out that you're talking nonsense that's 'political'?

OK.

I call troll, because I find it hard to believe that the level of ignorance demonstrated in this and other threads is anything other than wilful.



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Herman Surkis wrote:

And to me, the worst part is that he is not totally wrong. Which is what makes it so difficult to educate him. He constantly reverts back to those parts where he is right and then refuses to hear anything that contradicts where is is completely wrong.

This is very much  beginning to sound like a typical freshman year Art School discussion, with one person who has read a little bit by some opinionated artists.

In fact if one has the patience to filter through the dross of his comments, there is some good stuff. But if you know enough to see the good amongst the dross, then you do not need his comments. What is scary, is that for those who do not already know, they will get filled with an enormous amount of BS.

Well said Herman

Select Models wrote:

But that's OK... you can bank on it never getting locked... as the primary moderator of this forum has invested far too much time responding to posts listed in this thread to ever let that happen...

If I hadn't been foolish enough to get sucked into the "discussion", it would have lbeen locked pages ago. I've requested another mod to review it.

That Italian Guy wrote:
I call troll, because I find it hard to believe that the level of ignorance demonstrated in this and other threads is anything other than wilful.

Experience, alas, has shown otherwise.

Camerosity wrote:
The Politics of Light - one of my favorite college classes.

I don't remember that one. Did I miss something?

Kevin Connery wrote:
If I hadn't been foolish enough to get sucked into the "discussion", it would have lbeen locked pages ago. I've requested another mod to review it.

What?!?!?!?... a moderator displaying 'foolish behavior' in his own forum?... OMG... dude... we're gonna havta have some administrators re-evaluate your position here...

Green Grape Photography wrote:
Many go nuts over what 'expensive'  lighting equipment to use in order to get the right shot. Not many people are curious of controlling their camera. I always suggest people to read their cameras manual & start off with what they can afford being that Light is Light. (unless quality is also a in interest)

I mean, shouldn't photographers master the camera first-then discover how light works?

I dunno that I know what the first paragraph is saying.  Personally, I think anyone going "nuts" over expensive lighting equipment has probably some understanding of their camera.  I'm sure there are exceptions but in my experience the lighting enthusiast/nerd/specialist has a pretty decent understanding of his/her camera.

As for the actual question: "shouldn't photographers master the camera first-then discover how light works?"  ...I don't think you can really master your camera unless you're also mastering light.  Also, I think you can learn more about light without a camera than you can learn about a camera without light.  So...I like light.

After all, there's a long succession of artists who make photos without cameras.  But...if you have a camera and no light, you're not gonna be making anything.



I admit................I haven't read the whole thread. So maybe I'm talkin' bout nuthin'.  But I'm bored.  I shoulda gone out this Saturday evening and I didn't.



You also need LOVE, btw.  Love and light.  That's all you need. The Beatles had it wrong, folks.  Yup. I said it.  Love AND Light is all you need.



EDIT: Also, although I'm casting my vote for LIGHT, I do not want to be called a "strobist".  I prefer the term "flash bulb apologist".