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Photographer
Christian Sennesvik
Posts: 36
Oslo, Oslo, Norway


Ok - I retried on beach shoot, mostly because I would like to start with sports,fitness,bikini and so on...more the sportspart of it, and in time take pictures with sports atlethes around the world.

I have added some unedited pictures here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75846443@N … 594045855/

Earlier shoot was:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75846443@N … 540277661/

If someone has time to briefly look over them and say something about:

pose
lightning
suitebility as sports/non glamour pictures
and maybe which I could use

I would be very happy. I recognise that I have issues with following:
Picking the right pictures, and setting light good. At least that is what I have been told. With these I try feedback before edit. I think some skinadjusments, dodge, and colour correction would do alot. Also I'm thinking about editing the skies for more drama, and removing people and stuff in the background through use of photoshop and lightroom.

Thank you for your time=)
Jul 11 13 01:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christian Sennesvik
Posts: 36
Oslo, Oslo, Norway


Any suggestions? smile
Jul 13 13 11:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Select Models
Posts: 35,599
Upland, California, US


Model's poses look awkward... try shooting with a telephoto lens and no amateur looking strobe.  Would also recommend using a real beach... looks more like a lake.

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/100830/15/4c7c2d00b2a59_m.jpg
Jul 13 13 11:55 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John David Studio
Posts: 1,723
Fort Myers, Florida, US


Christian I spent a few minutes looking at both sets and will offer my suggestions.

1. Find an experienced model who is very skilled at posing.  They can help you tremendously when you are starting out and offer you great suggestions.  This model has a pretty decent look but is not experienced in posing.  Be very careful with the perspective of the models limbs.  Swimwear posing requires very careful placement of the body and you have be ware of distortion caused by your camera perspective and the focal length of the lens you are using.

2.  Pay much more attention to your lighting.  Sometimes it is much to frontal and the model lacks light and shadow definition.  Don't rely on photoshop to fix your lighting issues.  Learn to see the light and get it aimed properly.  I usually strive for 45 degree angles from the side which usually work well for most poses.

3.  If you are  trying to do sports themed shoots then get the model to wear that type of  wardrobe and create realistic sets that work with that wardrobe.  Accessories, props and careful location selection make big difference.  Shooting in areas with lots of green foliage will cause green color casts on light skin models.

4.  Your balance of flash to daylight ratio is fairly good.  Try to achieve lighting that is believable and doesn't look like you used any.  It a good idea to get some 1/4 cto gels and put them on the strobe to adjust for the color temperature variances that occur throughout the day.

Keep practicing, shoot slowly and try to create a single look and get the pose, lighting and concept right.  Change one thing at a time so you can see what you are doing.

Good luck!
Jul 13 13 12:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christian Sennesvik
Posts: 36
Oslo, Oslo, Norway


Select Models wrote:
Model's poses look awkward... try shooting with a telephoto lens and no amateur looking strobe.  Would also recommend using a real beach... looks more like a lake.

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/100830/15/4c7c2d00b2a59_m.jpg

Uhm - Oslo don't really have sandy beaches like in the US, it's basically not happening, so sort of screwed there. What did you mean with with "no amateur looking strobe"?

But are the shots more glamour look, or what are they?

Jul 13 13 12:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 36,289
Columbus, Ohio, US


Whole page won't load for me. For a couple images choices from what I can see, use #2 first row, far right second row....assuming you'll edit & crop them properly.

Pay closer attention to comp/crop in the future.

Yeah, they're glamour.
Jul 13 13 12:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 36,289
Columbus, Ohio, US


Select Models wrote:
Would also recommend using a real beach... looks more like a lake.

Lakes don't have beaches? roll

Jul 13 13 12:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John David Studio
Posts: 1,723
Fort Myers, Florida, US


Christian since you are in Oslo Norway you likely don't have beaches like we are accustomed to.   I imagine you have fresh water lakes and fjords.  Make the most of the environment you have.  I'd love to shoot in a location like that.  Every area has something that makes it unique.
Jul 13 13 12:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,241
Orlando, Florida, US


Christian Sennesvik wrote:

Uhm - Oslo don't really have sandy beaches like in the US, it's basically not happening, so sort of screwed there. What did you mean with with "no amateur looking strobe"?

But are the shots more glamour look, or what are they?

Yes, I'm interested to know what that meant.

Jul 13 13 12:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christian Sennesvik
Posts: 36
Oslo, Oslo, Norway


John David Studio  wrote:
Christian since you are in Oslo Norway you likely don't have beaches like we are accustomed to.   I imagine you have fresh water lakes and fjords.  Make the most of the environment you have.  I'd love to shoot in a location like that.  Every area has something that makes it unique.

Hi,
No, you are right - we don't...or, we have some 200 km away, the plan is to go there with a mua and 3 models later this month, but before that I need to fix things...the problem with my friends seems to be that they are so divided on what these images are, that I'm more confused than enligthend.

Some commentaries until now:

She seems to have fuck me eyes
She a duck mouth
She plucks her hair way to much
She makes cleavegaes to much
Mismatch on bikni - that means she a black bikni bottom and a other coloured on top.
The mix of place, time, sunset and clothes gave some to the ideal normally used for glamour shoots.


What I want is to come as close to what you can call:
Sports shoot - the use biknis and so on on these
Fitness
and non glamour - if glamour, at least nothing more than sports illustrated witch I think is suiteble for most people?

Jul 13 13 12:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Select Models
Posts: 35,599
Upland, California, US


John David Studio  wrote:
Christian since you are in Oslo Norway you likely don't have beaches like we are accustomed to.

Thank you... lakes, rivers and bays have shorelines... oceans have beaches.  Miami Beach... Laguna Beach... notice how these two cities have 'beach' in their names... wink

Jul 13 13 12:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
TexJames
Posts: 2
Kensington, Maryland, US


Looked your pf on Flickr, the Frida set is very nice.  Again maybe more glamour than the sports look you mention wanting, but nice.
Jul 13 13 12:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christian Sennesvik
Posts: 36
Oslo, Oslo, Norway


TexJames wrote:
Looked your pf on Flickr, the Frida set is very nice.  Again maybe more glamour than the sports look you mention wanting, but nice.

How can I change that? Currently I struggeling since "glamour" in Norway at least seems to be defined by so many variables that I don't know were to start counting, and non of them seems to match what I find as litterature on the net.

Just to add:
One model was critized for having to small bikini, and needed a size up
Both for to little energy in the pose
Lines a clumzy
Feet and hands to big/misplaced
Lack of core muscle


Any wonder I'm confused?

Jul 13 13 12:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Clothing Designer
GRMACK
Posts: 1,760
Bakersfield, California, US


As to poses of the first model, she just seems too stiff to the point of being forced.  Her hand positioning seems awkward as well (i.e. The crab-like grab of the gravel.).  She needs to get her upper arm away from her body too as it will make it appear large.

Your cropping needs improvement too.  Some with slightly crooked horizons lead me to looking at that 'thing' in the water (buoy or person?).  Cropping off the very extremities like fingers or toes gets called out by our club judges too.

Dual side lighting leaves the foreground too dark in some.  Don't know why you left that one shot with what appears to be a dark shadow (focal plane shutter or something in the way?) on the left side in the series.

Her eyes seem dead, no twinkle at all to them, and squinty too in some shots, for not having one.  Maybe a better catch-light flash is needed to boost the light up there.

I think you showed more promise with the greenery series of her than the beach.  I would have worked that area more.  She seemed more relaxed there.

I think a lot of success comes to knowing the site better.  That's why studio shots are so easy as we just learn the standards for it.  A person can almost do those in their sleep.  Going to a strange location and trying to light it can be much more challenging and difficult without a battery of practice under ones belt to pull it off.

Sadly, sometimes what we think is a good model isn't.  For others, they may work.  Sometimes one just cannot get a good shot out of them for some reason.  Been there, and it's really frustrating too.  Personality differences or something.  Maybe model in bad mood - or myself - or whatever.  Fighting with equipment operation (or more likely in-operations) sometimes does that too and will ruin a shoot.
Jul 13 13 01:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christian Sennesvik
Posts: 36
Oslo, Oslo, Norway


GRMACK wrote:
As to poses of the first model, she just seems too stiff to the point of being forced.  Her hand positioning seems awkward as well (i.e. The crab-like grab of the gravel.).  She needs to get her upper arm away from her body too as it will make it appear large.

Your cropping needs improvement too.  Some with slightly crooked horizons lead me to looking at that 'thing' in the water (buoy or person?).  Cropping off the very extremities like fingers or toes gets called out by our club judges too.

Dual side lighting leaves the foreground too dark in some.  Don't know why you left that one shot with what appears to be a dark shadow (focal plane shutter or something in the way?) on the left side in the series.

Her eyes seem dead, no twinkle at all to them, and squinty too in some shots, for not having one.  Maybe a better catch-light flash is needed to boost the light up there.

I think you showed more promise with the greenery series of her than the beach.  I would have worked that area more.  She seemed more relaxed there.

I think a lot of success comes to knowing the site better.  That's why studio shots are so easy as we just learn the standards for it.  A person can almost do those in their sleep.  Going to a strange location and trying to light it can be much more challenging and difficult without a battery of practice under ones belt to pull it off.

Sadly, sometimes what we think is a good model isn't.  For others, they may work.  Sometimes one just cannot get a good shot out of them for some reason.  Been there, and it's really frustrating too.  Personality differences or something.  Maybe model in bad mood - or myself - or whatever.  Fighting with equipment operation (or more likely in-operations) sometimes does that too and will ruin a shoot.

I can't rule out that the stress of moving, about 300 people or more on the beach, several passing, the model seeming to be a bit lazy/don't care mood, and arguing with the equipment this time could have been factors...sadly - I can't seem to find good models for these kind of shoots, I don't know if it is that "fit" models seems to be hard to find or I swallow to easily what I find.

What I'm beging to think now is that tomorrow is a fresh start with a older, more experienced model were I can try again. Also Hanna is getting back and we will start looking at directions more and more...she seems to take them better than Klaudia that is a more what ever approach... But also it's a bit my fault since I don't see this as good.

But how are things with these pictures - are they really glamour?

Any how - thank you so much for your help so far.

Jul 13 13 01:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
TexJames
Posts: 2
Kensington, Maryland, US


I haven't shot any sports/fitness and I am not sure what you mean when you talk about sports, but I did search (chose CA for the beaches smile ) MM and found some photographers and models listing sports/fitness.  Take a look at this PF:
http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/473669/275123

Is this what you had in mind?  It can be daunting to search MM sometimes, but there are many wonderful PFs and lots of ideas for inspiration/challenges smile
Jul 13 13 01:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christian Sennesvik
Posts: 36
Oslo, Oslo, Norway


TexJames wrote:
I haven't shot any sports/fitness and I am not sure what you mean when you talk about sports, but I did search (chose CA for the beaches smile ) MM and found some photographers and models listing sports/fitness.  Take a look at this PF:
http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/473669/275123

Is this what you had in mind?  It can be daunting to search MM sometimes, but there are many wonderful PFs and lots of ideas for inspiration/challenges smile

Thanks - actually...I was now uncertain, I just didn't want a glamour stamp...it seems that if you get it here you are like a plauge or something...go figure....I was almost "shot" by my best friend for sexualizing the model.

Jul 13 13 01:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Clothing Designer
GRMACK
Posts: 1,760
Bakersfield, California, US


I don't see it as pinup or even glamor as currently displayed.

Personally, I'd find a MUAH person to accompany you and let that person work the model's details while you get experienced and comfortable with your lighting gear on location.  You may be trying to do too much and leaving something else to goes unattended and bad.  They may even lend some advice to the model (or you!) while you fight with sundry gear issues too, or you needing to move lights around and play with them while they "touch up the model a bit."  I use a MUAH all the time now, and believe me, having one helps a lot.  Shots always come off better with one around, and they'll notice details that you never will until much later (e.g. Lipstick on teeth, clothing lines, smudges, shadow some prominent area, etc.).  Makes all shots better as the model "Feels more beautiful" (After all, they live for the attention!), and a lot easier in your post work as well.  Sometimes they alone are worth the distraction to break that "Deer caught in a headlight" look some seem to do so often.

Also, I have found when I did the "Pay by the hour" things they could go bad when something unexpected turns up.  Like when my "trusted" (Not!) Nikon CLS went bad on me in the desert sun and nothing was working right that day even though the model was an experienced Playboy model.  Nothing turned out worth printing with her.  Just two hours of hell and rushing around trying to get the damn lighting to work as it did indoors.  Now I prefer to get everyone off clock-watching as it allows me to think things through a bit more and not be so rushed.  Just inquire as to their day rate, negotiate maybe, and relax somewhat and stop clock watching.

There are those "1% models" out there that make it too easy.  You'll know one when you get one too.  They are the ones when you pull their images onto your computer screen later in transferring or post work, you'll think "Holy crap!  I did that with her?!").  They're not easy to find and some are rather hidden so you'll overlook them.  I'm sort of surprised there aren't that many in Oslo when I just looked.  Maybe Tuva Heger might be a better choice for your genre?  http://www.tuvaheger.no/  She's on MM too ( http://www.modelmayhem.com/1233395 ).  Couldn't hurt to try, even though it might cost you a bit more to come up with a stronger image port for your selected genre.

I'd work that green area too a bit more too if I were you.  Has more neutrality to it and not as busy in the background to distract from the model since glamor is all about them.

Good luck and keep trying.  Try and catch that sparkle in their eyes when it happens too.
Jul 13 13 04:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christian Sennesvik
Posts: 36
Oslo, Oslo, Norway


So, I went back there today with a different model, also - reading a professional photographer in Norway saying; the picture isn't glam unless the model does it to it...or 97% of glam pic can be explained with the model, the rest light and photographer.

This i what I got before editing:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75846443@N … 629172053/

There are some with shadows at weird places,but many seems quite good?
Jul 14 13 05:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eralar
Posts: 1,778
Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada


Don't get too much into definitions... they change from one region to another, and also from one person to anothero... Get more focused on the looks YOU want to achieve, and practice for that.

There will always be someone who thinks the bikini is too small, or not small enough, or the model's hair is not at their taste. Don't let them control how you do your photography, look at your area's magazines that are famous for what you want to shoot, and judge from what you see in their pages or websites. The rest if really up to you and your good judgment.

I know how you feel about posing, I'm not good at it. But I'm looking for videos like this one to help me understand and try to become better at it: http://vimeo.com/12588935
Jul 14 13 06:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christian Sennesvik
Posts: 36
Oslo, Oslo, Norway


Eralar wrote:
Don't get too much into definitions... they change from one region to another, and also from one person to anothero... Get more focused on the looks YOU want to achieve, and practice for that.

There will always be someone who thinks the bikini is too small, or not small enough, or the model's hair is not at their taste. Don't let them control how you do your photography, look at your area's magazines that are famous for what you want to shoot, and judge from what you see in their pages or websites. The rest if really up to you and your good judgment.

I know how you feel about posing, I'm not good at it. But I'm looking for videos like this one to help me understand and try to become better at it: http://vimeo.com/12588935

I think after banging my head against the door for the last couple of days, after reading what is written here I have gotten more than the ones I have spoken with.  Would norwegian magazines work best or european?

Currently I think these are the next shoots:
Bikini with more fit models - people here seems to connect that to those with real muscles/core muscles...I think more of healthy fit girls with addidas/nike or something bikini
Sports clothes - sunset/sunrise - i.e yoga with sunset, running, different exercises
Evening with the same with dark skies
Bike in the woods

I think I just have to start with these - and look in magazines, it might as you say be better?

But would you say the picture were sports/fitness related?

Thank you everyone here for your help...it has been of tremendous help.

Jul 14 13 06:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eralar
Posts: 1,778
Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada


Christian Sennesvik wrote:
Would norwegian magazines work best or european?

It's only a personal opinion from a hobbyist photographer, but since you are in fact trying to build your own vision, I would say don't limit yourself in a geographical area. Look at fitness / bikini photography magazines and websites from any area (Norwegian, European and international) and build up from that.

After you have built your own vision and are more confident about your set of skills (lighting, posing), then you can look in your specific market to see how you could fit.

But again, if you have built yourself an excellent portfolio with your own vision, you can use it to sell your skills / vision to magazines and designers, so the point is not to copy what others already do, since then you would have nothing new to offer.

Edit: if you look at any high end or successful photographer here on MM, no matter what kind of photography they shoot, you will see they all have their own style / vision, and that's what makes them marketable. People who are just trying to emulate these photographers have nothing new to offer, and will have a harder time finding good contracts.

Jul 14 13 06:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Image Magik
Posts: 1,067
New Orleans, Louisiana, US


First off you are using the wrong model.
She is a glamor looking model not an athletic looking model.
If you want to shoot athletes find some good athletic models to shoot with some good abs
and muscular definition.
Second, pose the model better. Direct them for the shot your looking for.
Shoot the model in athletic gear-competition swimsuit, etc.
Use athletic props-balls, swim goggles...
Work on using more reflectors with your lighting and less flash.
Jul 14 13 07:04 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christian Sennesvik
Posts: 36
Oslo, Oslo, Norway


Image Magik wrote:
First off you are using the wrong model.
She is a glamor looking model not an athletic looking model.
If you want to shoot athletes find some good athletic models to shoot with some good abs
and muscular definition.
Second, pose the model better. Direct them for the shot your looking for.
Shoot the model in athletic gear-competition swimsuit, etc.
Use athletic props-balls, swim goggles...
Work on using more reflectors with your lighting and less flash.

Since there are three models in this thread now - may I ask which one you were refering to? Also - regarding reflectors - I have been thinking of just using reflector like with this shot:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75846443@N … 104002037/

only light here was the sun and a silver reflector. But some say I loose control by doing that which gets me more confused.

How is normaly a beachshoot done professionaly? I see people doing it with enorumes PLMs, beautydishes but also just a reflector - would maybe a beautydish and a reflector have done the same use? or simple as it may be just a reflector?

Jul 14 13 07:08 am  Link  Quote 
Clothing Designer
GRMACK
Posts: 1,760
Bakersfield, California, US


Couple of quickies:

Looks like your flash isn't powerful enough to make them stand out against the brighter backgrounds in a lot of the series (all three).  The last one with JoAnne (dark hair) doesn't go well with the dark-to-black forest background.  She blends in and is lost and fill-flash is too weak.  The blond would be better in that dark region, imho.

However, the poses are stiff among all of them for some reason.  The last sequence looks like her feet were glued to the beach and she never moved other than a little on the upper body.  I would let them work out their own poses with less direction as you may be pushing them into being to stiff and perhaps too rigid maybe?  A good model will know her angles and poses without much input from the photographer.  I have some that seemed to "Bluetooth to my shutter finger" and I swear I could have been brain dead the entire time as they just clicked through their pose routine.  If I get a series of blinky shots, I know the model and I aren't on the same page, or her routine is off and she is blinking once she locks into her "Take it now" pose.

When you push them into something different from their normal pose routine, it can show up as awkward and stiff for 20-30 minutes until they get a feel for it - or you realize it's just bad and give up trying it with them.  I've had some where my directions were unclear to them and it ended up looking really bad.  Luckily, the MUAH I use understands me and she can physically grab them and move them to where I want.  Sometimes I find it better to let them have the stage and me to keep quiet.
Jul 14 13 02:28 pm  Link  Quote 
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