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Photographer
Desert Shadows Photo
Posts: 95
Mesquite, Nevada, US


Some models that I have contacted or who have contacted me for a shoot seem to e pretty fickle. The are all enthusiastic to model, keep e-mailing me about the shoot but when I have arranged a location and paid money t hold the location all of a sudden 2 days before the shoot I never hear from them again. This happens mostly with male models. Female models have very rarely stood me up. How do you handle a situation like this? Is there a way to warn other photographers about such models?? What gives??
Jul 12 13 03:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
JessieLeigh
Posts: 2,007
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Are you paying the models? That's usually helpful, although it doesn't always weed out the flakes.

Are you talking to other photographers the models have worked with, to ensure that they have showed up for previous shoots as planned? If not, why not?
Jul 12 13 03:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marin Photography NYC
Posts: 7,032
New York, New York, US


Typical flake behavior. Just move on, not much to do about nothing when nothing happened.

A word of advice, don't spend money on any shoot where you are not 110% positive that the model will show.  Pick locations and places that don't cost you anything. That's what I do. If I need a model for a project I pick one I know or go through an agency. They are more likely to show up.
Jul 12 13 03:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
A. KAYE
Posts: 307
Richardson, Texas, US


DITTO
Jul 12 13 03:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Trisha May Photography
Posts: 304
Colchester, Connecticut, US


Marin Photography NYC wrote:
Typical flake behavior. Just move on, not much to do about nothing when nothing happened.

A word of advice, don't spend money on any shoot where you are not 110% positive that the model will show.  Pick locations and places that don't cost you anything. That's what I do. If I need a model for a project I pick one I know or go through an agency. They are more likely to show up.

+1

Jul 12 13 03:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Matt Schmidt
Posts: 3,677
Greensboro, North Carolina, US


Rant . . .


. . . no not really.



Find better talent . . .
Jul 12 13 03:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Nogawd Photography
Posts: 103
Cleveland, Ohio, US


Find something else to do that day?
Jul 12 13 03:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
H A Z E
Posts: 82
London, England, United Kingdom


If you are putting down money for a location, I would say book more than 1 llama. If one doesn't turn up at least you still have the other one to work with and if they both turn up you can shoot them together.
Jul 12 13 06:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
T A P
Posts: 2
East Ridge, Tennessee, US


I've been in Chicago for the summer and I have contacted a number of models about doing some shoots.  Five of them pulled no-shows.  We communicated, I confirmed and on the day of the shoot they didn't show-up or call.  My response was to tag their page with one word, (UNPROFESSIONAL).  I have found that a lot of models don't think like a professionals and they are not concerned about the photographers time.  But, let the photographer be one day late getting them the images and they have a fit.

Its the chance we take.  We should start asking for references.
Jul 12 13 07:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
robert b mitchell
Posts: 1,312
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


I have given up trying to figure out "models". That is why I prefer to shoot with ones with a good track record who have shot with other photographers or with me. tongue
Jul 12 13 07:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DLH Photo
Posts: 313
Seattle, Washington, US


I have only had one no-show so far but I rented a studio so the no-show cost me money. I was going to pay the model if she showed. The most you can do on MM is make a "do not recommend" list but I have not. I just moved on, have done more shoots at locations that don't require fees, and have considered hiring agency models.
Jul 12 13 07:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
rp_photo
Posts: 42,490
Houston, Texas, US


Desert Shadows Photo wrote:
Some models that I have contacted or who have contacted me for a shoot seem to e pretty fickle. The are all enthusiastic to model, keep e-mailing me about the shoot but when I have arranged a location and paid money t hold the location all of a sudden 2 days before the shoot I never hear from them again. This happens mostly with male models. Female models have very rarely stood me up. How do you handle a situation like this? Is there a way to warn other photographers about such models?? What gives??

Most models only have a short "enthusiasm window", and it can easily be used up before the shoot. In other words, don't book too far ahead and do your best to pace their enthusiasm until it's time to shoot.

Don't use locations that require risking money on models you don't know well. Rather than pay for a location, pay the model. This will motivate them to show up, and you aren't out anything if they don't.

Jul 12 13 07:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
K I C K H A M
Posts: 14,621
Los Angeles, California, US


No reason to reach out and warn people-- you will just look petty.

I'm often a "pinch" model. I have photographers I work with on a very regular basis, and we have a great working relationship. When a girl flakes, they call me (or one of the other few others like me they each have) and usually can have A model.

Not perfect, but it works.

Also, sometimes usually casting calls on MM to find last-minute replacements works.
Jul 12 13 07:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
terrysphotocountry
Posts: 4,062
Rochester, New York, US


JessieLeigh wrote:
Are you paying the models? That's usually helpful, although it doesn't always weed out the flakes.

Are you talking to other photographers the models have worked with, to ensure that they have showed up for previous shoots as planned? If not, why not?

I have arranged a location and paid money

Jul 12 13 08:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rasa Von Werder
Posts: 17
Brooklyn, New York, US


This is CONSTANT with male models - with female models over a ten year time I only had two flakes & THIRTY GOOD ONES.
But with males, MORE R FLAKES THAN NON FLAKES.
In fact, I lost $1,300. in 2012 on BUYING TICKETS - airplane & bus tickets & advances, 4 guys that DID NOT SHOW.  New rule is no more tickets or advances.
Spend as little $$ as possible in anticipation of their arrival--Realize that a large percent of them will not show up - It's just a part of this business - Just how it is, ....And it works both ways.  Photographers do bad things to models, even though they are usually older & more reputable.  I have spoken to 100 models & they tell me their stories. It's a business where people are mostly UNACCOUNTABLE & CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WISH - show or not show - without any penalty, so people just follow their own feelings or last-minute moods, not caring what happens to the other party.  Just be prepared that this will happen again & again.  I have had few models, but many flakes this year.  They come up with every excuse - all lies - broken arm, I got arrested, there was a bomb scare - the bus driver saw me but kept going on.....THEY JUST DON'T CARE ENOUGH TO GET TO THE JOB - even when I was paying some of them $500. or $1,000.!  Believe it or not!  The TRADES are more likely to flake, but paids flake also.  My solution is SPEND NO MONEY IN ADVANCE OR AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE, KEEP LOOKING 4 NEW MODELS.  It's a percentage game.  People say "find ones with character."  There are VERY FEW MEN IN THEIR 20'S with "character."  What gets them here the most likely is DESPERATION FOR MONEY - or else they want to meet me or have a vacation away from where they live.  If U have ten people who say they will do it, eight or more will flake.  What gets me is standing @ the bus & no one gets off.  They don't even call.
Jul 12 13 08:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Shilo Von Porcelaine
Posts: 215
Chicago, Illinois, US


Also, if they ever contact you to shoot again, you could either charge them for it, or have them put down a deposit (especially if you're renting a space/taking time off work/other expenses.)
Jul 12 13 09:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Amber Dawn - Colorado
Posts: 6,061
Castle Rock, Colorado, US


There are MANY MANY post on this topic, Do a search and you'll get MANY MANY opinions.

Just move on find Models who are serious :-)
Jul 12 13 10:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,289
Salem, Oregon, US


i'm reluctant to spend money i can't get refunded on a TF shoot, especially the first time around with a particular model. this extends to hiring a MUA. once the model has proven herself reliable then i might be more willing.
Jul 12 13 10:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 12,524
Atlanta, Georgia, US


How to handle a no show?  Call the agency and they send another.  Seriously if you are talking about a shoot with money involved then seek professionals to work with.

As others have mentioned this is a common topic and you just can't expect too much out of someone doing this on the side or as a hobby.  There are potential day job issues that could come up that could kill a shoot, not just the dead grandmother excuse/flake model issues.
Jul 12 13 10:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Desert Shadows Photo
Posts: 95
Mesquite, Nevada, US


What I usually will do is when the modeling session is done, I will pay the model a minimum of $25/hr (minimum of equivalent of a 2 hr session, $50) even if the shoot was meant to be a TF session. I don't want to tell the model that it is a paid session, then if their heart isn't in it they won't show up. Like I said, this happens mostly with male models. Very little trouble with the female models.
Jul 13 13 10:01 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Alexandria Web
Posts: 20
Washington, England, United Kingdom


I had a photographer no show a while back, I made sure to let the models I'm friendly with know that she didn't turn up (despite telling me 12 hours previous that she was really looking forward to shooting with me).
Jul 14 13 06:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Amul La La
Posts: 804
Plymouth, England, United Kingdom


Desert Shadows Photo wrote:
Some models that I have contacted or who have contacted me for a shoot seem to e pretty fickle. The are all enthusiastic to model, keep e-mailing me about the shoot but when I have arranged a location and paid money t hold the location all of a sudden 2 days before the shoot I never hear from them again. This happens mostly with male models. Female models have very rarely stood me up. How do you handle a situation like this? Is there a way to warn other photographers about such models?? What gives??

Checking references, not checking references, talking to other people they've worked with, not talking to others they've worked with, granted there are little things you can do to try to build up an immunity to flakes, but there is no defense, full proof, like a creatives that actually turns up, bar that there's not much assurity the creative won't do a Houdini - you have to roll with the punches, if you aren't working with e.g aspiring fashion agency models.

Jul 15 13 04:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Risen Phoenix Photo
Posts: 1,230
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


Work with a team of models who love your work and that know you well.  I have never had a no show once I started this system
Jul 15 13 06:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
P I X I E
Posts: 35,267
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Post hidden on Jul 15, 2013 07:10 pm
Reason: not helpful
Jul 15 13 06:53 pm  Link 
Photographer
MFP Photography
Posts: 1
Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, US


Does anyone know any model in Oklahoma that wants to do a shoot at all?  My cameras are gathering so much dust I'm considering selling everything and spending more time on the couch.
Jul 15 13 07:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
P I X I E
Posts: 35,267
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


MFP Photography wrote:
Does anyone know any model in Oklahoma that wants to do a shoot at all?  My cameras are gathering so much dust I'm considering selling everything and spending more time on the couch.

Post a casting call and you will find out.

http://www.modelmayhem.com/post_casting_call

Jul 15 13 07:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
HWM Photography
Posts: 1,383
Chicago, Illinois, US


I am leaning toward agency models period.  And I am so sick of the "I've never cancelled before, but this came up.." BS.  Oh, I do pay models.
Jul 15 13 07:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Top Gun Digital
Posts: 1,218
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Desert Shadows Photo wrote:
Some models that I have contacted or who have contacted me for a shoot seem to e pretty fickle. The are all enthusiastic to model, keep e-mailing me about the shoot but when I have arranged a location and paid money t hold the location all of a sudden 2 days before the shoot I never hear from them again. This happens mostly with male models. Female models have very rarely stood me up. How do you handle a situation like this? Is there a way to warn other photographers about such models?? What gives??

You need to understand that many of the people on Model Mayhem are not professionals.  This applies to both models and photographers.  As a result, it's very common to have a model flake.  The behavior that you just experienced is actually very common as far a doing a lot of planning for a shoot and then having nothing happen.   I have been in contact with many models that say they want to shoot and they discuss wardrobe, compensation, makeup, etc.  When you actually try to pin down a date for a shoot you never hear from them again.

The key here is to not invest any money when working with a model you don't know.  I learned that lesson the hard way after renting a studio more then once to shoot a model I didn't know only to have the model flake leaving me stuck paying for the studio.  The only time I would consider renting a studio now would be to shoot with a model that I have previously worked with that I am confident will show up.

Jul 15 13 07:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Ivanafox
Posts: 979
Healesville, Victoria, Australia


If it's any consolation this happens on both sides of the camera.
This is a site full of random people who have photography in common, that's it, nothing else.
Some are professional and reliable, some are complete morons who have no respect or care for others and lots who are in-between. Keep that in mind when setting up a shoot, do whatever you can to keep communication clear and prove you aren't one of the idiots (cos like I said models cop it too) and hope for the best that you're arranging things with one of the better people.
One thing that is guranteed is that there is no guranteed method of avoiding the morons.
Jul 15 13 08:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eric Nelson
Posts: 2
Bangkok, Bangkok, Thailand


I like that! smile
Seems you did everything as you should have and that's how I'm now handling my TF shoots after my first no show today.  It's a beautiful day in Bangkok and I'm doing laundry instead of shooting!

TEA Photography wrote:
I've been in Chicago for the summer and I have contacted a number of models about doing some shoots.  Five of them pulled no-shows.  We communicated, I confirmed and on the day of the shoot they didn't show-up or call.  My response was to tag their page with one word, (UNPROFESSIONAL).  I have found that a lot of models don't think like a professionals and they are not concerned about the photographers time.  But, let the photographer be one day late getting them the images and they have a fit.

Its the chance we take.  We should start asking for references.

Aug 01 13 01:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Happy Guy Photos
Posts: 1,124
Upland, California, US


To Desert Shadows Photo --

Desert Shadows Photo wrote:
Some models that I have contacted or who have contacted me for a shoot seem to e pretty fickle. The are all enthusiastic to model, keep e-mailing me about the shoot but when I have arranged a location and paid money t hold the location all of a sudden 2 days before the shoot I never hear from them again. This happens mostly with male models. Female models have very rarely stood me up. How do you handle a situation like this? Is there a way to warn other photographers about such models?? What gives??

This is a freelance modeling site and "no shows" are to be expected.

I get quite a few of those. Just got one yesterday, in fact. She probably got a better deal with another photographer, or one that was noticably closer, and made up a story of why she couldn't make it. I just move on. Now that I shoot at my house, it doesn't affect me as much. Before, when I was shooting at a studio, I would really get depressed. After awhile the studio owner booted me out because he was losing money and could have booked with another photographer who hired an agency model. And, yes, I was paying a non-refundable deposit.

End point -- you're not doing anything wrong so don't take it personally. You may want to do what many others are doing now, joining Meetup.com and attending their groupshoots. That's pretty much a sure thing. Then you can try to hook up with a particular model and do a "one on one" later on.

Aug 01 13 04:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Antediluvian Design
Posts: 1,137
Dunmore, Pennsylvania, US


Hit the pub for a frosty pint of goodness..smile
Aug 01 13 05:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
New Art Photo
Posts: 701
Los Angeles, California, US


Desert Shadows Photo wrote:
Some models that I have contacted or who have contacted me for a shoot seem to e pretty fickle. The are all enthusiastic to model, keep e-mailing me about the shoot but when I have arranged a location and paid money t hold the location all of a sudden 2 days before the shoot I never hear from them again. This happens mostly with male models. Female models have very rarely stood me up. How do you handle a situation like this? Is there a way to warn other photographers about such models?? What gives??

I constantly get girls who contact me showing some interest, then drift away.
( And this is when I'm on my best email behavior.)
I do TFP shoots, and I  think
often the girls are not particularly motivated.

Aug 01 13 05:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Isis22
Posts: 2,427
Muncie, Indiana, US


Desert Shadows Photo wrote:
What I usually will do is when the modeling session is done, I will pay the model a minimum of $25/hr (minimum of equivalent of a 2 hr session, $50) even if the shoot was meant to be a TF session. I don't want to tell the model that it is a paid session, then if their heart isn't in it they won't show up. Like I said, this happens mostly with male models. Very little trouble with the female models.

Offer to pay them FIRST so they will show up!

I would do like others suggested and have a backup plan if you are renting a studio. No way would I put out money unless I know for a fact I am going to have someone show up.

Aug 01 13 07:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GER Photography
Posts: 7,690
Imperial, California, US


Uh,, ball peen hammer??:-)))))
Aug 01 13 07:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,910
Albany, New York, US


Rule #1, "Never invest more into a shoot than that to which you cannot afford to lose if things go south."
Aug 01 13 08:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JAE
Posts: 2,103
West Chester, Pennsylvania, US


I shoot somewhere that is free if I don't know the model yet or don't have a friends recommendation. I make the model text me a few hours before the shoot to confirm. I never have complete flakes where I am at location waiting around wondering, but sometimes get same day cancellations. Gives me time to find something else to do and I am not upset because there's no money invested.
Aug 01 13 08:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
REED Photography
Posts: 32
Los Angeles, California, US


I had a model pull the "food poisoning" excuse, literally 6 hours before the shoot. I'd gotten wardrobe and a mua for her.

Luckily the gorgeous MM girl in my avatar emailed me back at 8am and said she could fill in! And this was on a sunday!

For every flake there is a gem.

I'm actually pretty happy that girl "got food poisoning" because I don't think the images would have been as awesome had I not shot with Anastasia.

Lesson that i learned... always double book... because one of them will most likely flake. Always better to have too many models booked than have none!
Aug 02 13 07:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Michael Zahra
Posts: 1,081
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Marin Photography NYC wrote:
Typical flake behavior. Just move on, not much to do about nothing when nothing happened.

A word of advice, don't spend money on any shoot where you are not 110% positive that the model will show.  Pick locations and places that don't cost you anything. That's what I do. If I need a model for a project I pick one I know or go through an agency. They are more likely to show up.

Exactly...

Aug 02 13 07:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Michael Zahra
Posts: 1,081
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


90038 Photography wrote:
I had a model pull the "food poisoning" excuse, literally 6 hours before the shoot. I'd gotten wardrobe and a mua for her.

Luckily the gorgeous MM girl in my avatar emailed me back at 8am and said she could fill in! And this was on a sunday!

For every flake there is a gem.

I'm actually pretty happy that girl "got food poisoning" because I don't think the images would have been as awesome had I not shot with Anastasia.

Lesson that i learned... always double book... because one of them will most likely flake. Always better to have too many models booked than have none!

If it's a TF creative, I'll often double book.  It's not really double booking (like airlines over book seats) as I'll shoot both, separately and together if they wish.  While I'm shooting one, HMUA can do their magic and I can even use a model as an assistant if I'm alone shooting outdoors.

Aug 02 13 07:48 pm  Link  Quote 
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