terrysphotocountry wrote:
I have arranged a location and paid money

How thoroughly did you vet the model?
That's why I like phone calls and preliminary meetings.
(This weird thing of "I only text with the photographers before the shoot because ____ (fill in the blank)" is completely unprofessional, is likely a flake or a even be a  loser.)

With calls and meetings, you get a sense what the person is like. Are they professional, or are they a pothead high school dropout?


To answer your question, I offer this answer:

Dump 'em. NEXT!

255 West wrote:

How thoroughly did you vet the model?
That's why I like phone calls and preliminary meetings.
(This weird thing of "I only text with the photographers before the shoot because ____ (fill in the blank)" is completely unprofessional, is likely a flake or a even be a  loser.)

With calls and meetings, you get a sense what the person is like. Are they professional, or are they a pothead high school dropout?


To answer your question, I offer this answer:

Dump 'em. NEXT!

Agreed each model gets one pass if they are so unprofessional twice I will block them and trash them privately to every photographer I know

Desert Shadows Photo wrote:
Some models that I have contacted or who have contacted me for a shoot seem to e pretty fickle. The are all enthusiastic to model, keep e-mailing me about the shoot but when I have arranged a location and paid money t hold the location all of a sudden 2 days before the shoot I never hear from them again. This happens mostly with male models. Female models have very rarely stood me up. How do you handle a situation like this? Is there a way to warn other photographers about such models?? What gives??

Now that the model has not shown up, here are some things you can do:
...  You don't have to work with her again.
...  If someone asks, you can tell them your story about the model.
...  There always is something constructive you can do with your time; do that.

Conversely:
...  Don't start yet another flake thread; read all the already existing ones.
...  Don't tell strangers your story -- they have no reason to believe you.
...  Don't post a list of flake models -- it looks bad:
     ===  Why are all these models avoiding the guy with the list?
     ===  The profile makes a first impression; such a list makes a bad one.

If flakes bother you, be more selective about who you work with:
...  Make the effort to build a little local support group of photographers & models.
...  Ask your local photographers & models if they know your candidate model.
...  Ask your local folks if they have recommendations for you.
...  In my experience, traveling models (who are dependent on getting paid to
     get home) tend to be more reliable.
...  There are hints in the model's profile & portfolio; learn to recognize them.
...  Form relationships with good local models; some might be available to fill in
     for you at a moment's notice.

H A Z E wrote:
If you are putting down money for a location, I would say book more than 1 llama. If one doesn't turn up at least you still have the other one to work with and if they both turn up you can shoot them together.

You know, that kind of thing only really works for the most frivolous hobbyist shoots.

H A Z E wrote:
If you are putting down money for a location, I would say book more than 1 llama. If one doesn't turn up at least you still have the other one to work with and if they both turn up you can shoot them together.

Why don't you book more than one photographer and you can pay those that show up to shoot you. Then see if you feel you can recommend that method to others.

K I C K H A M wrote:
No reason to reach out and warn people-- you will just look petty.

I'm often a "pinch" model. I have photographers I work with on a very regular basis, and we have a great working relationship. When a girl flakes, they call me (or one of the other few others like me they each have) and usually can have A model.

Not perfect, but it works.

Also, sometimes usually casting calls on MM to find last-minute replacements works.

there really aren't enough "pinch" models about, so a big high-five to them. :-)

J O H N  A L L A N wrote:
You know, that kind of thing only really works for the most frivolous hobbyist shoots.

I do this all the time and it works quite well for me. In four years of MM I have never not had a shoot due to lack of models, because I overbook the models. Some pretty creative shoots have resulted from this as well.

Risen Phoenix Photo wrote:

Agreed each model gets one pass if they are so unprofessional twice I will block them and trash them privately to every photographer I know

bad juju.

Desert Shadows Photo wrote:
...How do you handle a situation like this?...

Z.

V A S I L I S wrote:
is there a list that has models that are flakes?

No, and even if there was, it wouldn't be wise to use it.  The type of people that "blacklist" others are often petty and immature.  Not only that, but somebody is not a "flake" because they cancel one shoot due to illness etc, yet many otherwise reliable models would end up on flake lists (ones that didn't actually "flake"), if there was such a thing. 

Best thing to do is move on.  Flakes happen to everybody here, including models.  It's just part of doing what we do.  It's either worth it to you, or it's not.  No amount of bitching, blacklisting, flake lists, etc will change the fact that flakes/cancellations will continue to happen.

Think of it like this.  People call in sick to work, right?  Modeling is a job, but people still flake/call in sick occasionally, just like they do at every other job.  If you're getting a huge amount of flakes, you need to change your vetting process and hire better/more reliable models.

MelissaAnn  wrote:

No, and even if there was, it wouldn't be wise to use it.  The type of people that "blacklist" others are often petty and immature.  Not only that, but somebody is not a "flake" because they cancel one shoot due to illness etc, yet many otherwise reliable models would end up on flake lists (ones that didn't actually "flake"), if there was such a thing. 

Best thing to do is move on.  Flakes happen to everybody here, including models.  It's just part of doing what we do.  It's either worth it to you, or it's not.  No amount of bitching, blacklisting, flake lists, etc will change the fact that flakes/cancellations will continue to happen.

Think of it like this.  People call in sick to work, right?  Modeling is a job, but people still flake/call in sick occasionally, just like they do at every other job.  If you're getting a huge amount of flakes, you need to change your vetting process and hire better/more reliable models.

I've been reading many of your posts for a while.   You make excellent points.   I have this debate with another member all the time.   When people aren't being paid and even when some are they may flake.   Its not personal.   Its not too be mean.   Its almost never because they dislike the persons work or reputation.   Being angry about things, situations and people you can't control is silly.   Most of us can't hire models so we rely on trade.   Some models may decide last minute that photos alone aren't worth a long drive or buying new outfits.   When I get flakes I reflect on past models who have shot in filthy sketchy places for free.

Many have driven hours too shoot.   Several have taken me to dinner and helped me with other projects.   A few have brought me outfits to keep and jewelry.   I've had models give me money for TF shoots.   Focus on success and not failure.   If some flake or cancel last minute, so be it.   A few days ago a MM showed on time after calling to confirm.   How many shooters praise that kind of model?   We start threads about disappointments.   Human nature is too complain I guess.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

I've been reading many of your posts for a while.   You make excellent points.   I have this debate with another member all the time.   When people aren't being paid and even when some are they may flake.   Its not personal.   Its not too be mean.   Its almost never because they dislike the persons work or reputation.   Being angry about things, situations and people you can't control is silly.   Most of us can't hire models so we rely on trade.   Some models may decide last minute that photos alone aren't worth a long drive or buying new outfits.   When I get flakes I reflect on past models who have shot in filthy sketchy places for free.

Many have driven hours too shoot.   Several have taken me to dinner and helped me with other projects.   A few have brought me outfits to keep and jewelry.   I've had models give me money for TF shoots.   Focus on success and not failure.   If some flake or cancel last minute, so be it.   A few days ago a MM showed on time after calling to confirm.   How many shooters praise that kind of model?   We start threads about disappointments.   Human nature is too complain I guess.

You have the right attitude Tony. 

Loki Studio wrote:
This is a simple problem to fix- require a deposit to confirm any photoshoot.

Sure. And watch your booking rate go to zero.

Desert Shadows Photo wrote:
Is there a way to warn other photographers about such models?? What gives??

I have been saying and will continue to say "...why doesn't MM have a rating system that all can provide reviews for both photographers and models.  This problem will continue until we are able to weed out the flake models and creepy photographers.

And paying models doesn't appear to help...I have had as many paid models flake as TF Models???

I am appreciative that MM has at least started blocking the poor quality selfies from getting a profile. 

Give us the chance to review...

MH Photography  wrote:

I have been saying and will continue to say "...why doesn't MM have a rating system that all can provide reviews for both photographers and models.  This problem will continue until we are able to weed out the flake models and creepy photographers.

And paying models doesn't appear to help...I have had as many paid models flake as TF Models???

I am appreciative that MM has at least started blocking the poor quality selfies from getting a profile. 

Give us the chance to review...

Yeah. No

Amber Dawn  -  Colorado wrote:
There are MANY MANY post on this topic, Do a search and you'll get MANY MANY opinions.

Just move on find Models who are serious :-)

+1

J O H N  A L L A N wrote:

You know, that kind of thing only really works for the most frivolous hobbyist shoots.

And sometimes not even then.

Did not work at the last planned shoot. Even with 2 shooters and 2 sets. Everybody turned up, and we had twice as many models as we needed. Got distracting trying to get something good from each.

Matt Schmidt wrote:
A.  Pull out reference book of previous models worked with . . .
B.  Pick up the phone and dial . . .

C. Hunt them down and tickles them
D. Edit more pics from old shoots.

Desert Shadows Photo wrote:
Some models that I have contacted or who have contacted me for a shoot seem to e pretty fickle. The are all enthusiastic to model, keep e-mailing me about the shoot but when I have arranged a location and paid money t hold the location all of a sudden 2 days before the shoot I never hear from them again. This happens mostly with male models. Female models have very rarely stood me up. How do you handle a situation like this? Is there a way to warn other photographers about such models?? What gives??

Best thing to do is to move on.

The sad thing is that those that do make a habit of flaking often times change their names and create new accounts later.

JessieLeigh wrote:
Are you paying the models? That's usually helpful, although it doesn't always weed out the flakes.

Are you talking to other photographers the models have worked with, to ensure that they have showed up for previous shoots as planned? If not, why not?

Your last point is a good point. The first point not so much. It shouldn't matter if the model is paid or not. A commitment is a commitment and a flake is a flake.

It's so easy to make an excuse, and most of them are pretty weak, or they blow you off completely.

My advice is to block the model, and tell everyone you know that they are not courteous or professional.

And yes the lack of Civility is unprofessional.  Or you can just stick a pin in your Vodoo Doll

MH Photography  wrote:

I have been saying and will continue to say "...why doesn't MM have a rating system that all can provide reviews for both photographers and models.  This problem will continue until we are able to weed out the flake models and creepy photographers.

And paying models doesn't appear to help...I have had as many paid models flake as TF Models???

I am appreciative that MM has at least started blocking the poor quality selfies from getting a profile. 

Give us the chance to review...

I really think if we had a system like that, it would be abused. How would you know if the model and photographer really shot?

Ramon Bryce wrote:
My strategy is to get good enough that they wouldn't even think of no-showing.  Time used on anything else is negative energy.

Kinda hard to do unless you have a model or a maniquin .