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Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,075
Salem, Oregon, US


the wife said this was true. some people do live under a rock. but surely someone in their circle knew? or their agency?

eos3_300 wrote:
They might..
If you read back some of past Terry Threads you can see many had no idea of his books or what he posts on blogs.

Nov 03 13 01:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


Rick OBanion Photo wrote:
You didn't know though...everyone walking into his studio for the last five years KNEW. Big difference. He puts pics up of him doing models..do people need to be hit over the head with a bat?

I think you'd be surprised how many people actually don't know of his reputation.

And I'm talking about models and photographers working in or around the fashion industry, not just random people on the street. I can perfectly well imagine that some innocent "New Face" from the Ukraine (or even Podunk Ohio) sent for a test or casting with TR wouldn't necessarily be aware of his reputation and certainly would never have seen his book or his blog.



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Nov 03 13 01:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C new portfolio
Posts: 2,384
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


eos3_300 wrote:
Adults should not have their livelihood suffer because they don't perform sexual favors for those in power.

+1

Well said.

I can just see what would happen if we all carried on our jobs like that.

Bank manager to lady client who wants an overdraft:
"well let's get naked shall we and discuss it?"

would people say well she's free to walk out?
I think not.

Student comes to me for a tutorial.
me: "well let's get naked shall we and all relaxed while w4e discuss it?" I'd lose m job and never work in the field again and quite rightly.

So Richardson, IF he is doing it is scum. And anyone who sees it as ok is not seeing things clearly. The industry NEEDS a wake up call if it IS allowing him to get away with such in the interest of artistic merit or some such bullshit.

So thank you - at least some photographers can see what is wrong here. IF of course, it is true. And again; I do not think a petition is apt.

Nov 03 13 01:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 18,889
Chicago, Illinois, US


eos3_300 wrote:

Adults should not have their livelihood suffer because they don't perform sexual favors for those in power.

True but don't provide those favors then complain later.   Say, no and leave but Hollywood thrives on bullshi& and gossip.   How much of this is true?   Can TR control or affect a models career?   Years ago I knew a beautiful woman who started some crap about Rod Stewart.   Don't be offering folks blow jobs and then get angry when they accept because that's all you got.   The larger point is have any models been forced to do anything?   No criminal complaints or lawsuits that I know of.

Nov 03 13 01:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C new portfolio
Posts: 2,384
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


That Italian Guy wrote:
I think you'd be surprised how many people actually don't know of his reputation.

And I'm talking about models and photographers working in or around the fashion industry, not just random people on the street. I can perfectly well imagine that some innocent "New Face" from the Ukraine (or even Podunk Ohio) sent for a test or casting with TR wouldn't necessarily be aware of his reputation and certainly would never have seen his book or his blog.





Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

I never knew of his reputation until after the mofo. I suspect the mofo did though.

Nov 03 13 01:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C new portfolio
Posts: 2,384
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


Tony Lawrence wrote:
True but don't provide those favors then complain later.   Say, no and leave but Hollywood thrives on bullshi& and gossip.   How much of this is true?   Can TR control or affect a models career?   Years ago I knew a beautiful woman who started some crap about Rod Stewart.   Don't be offering folks blow jobs and then get angry when they accept because that's all you got.   The larger point is have any models been forced to do anything?   No criminal complaints or lawsuits that I know of.

Well this is it.

Is it however unethical as the photographer to strip naked while you shoot? How on earth is that acceptable? Would it be acceptable in any other job where nudity is not clearly part of the job?

Nov 03 13 01:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J I M M I
Posts: 557
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US


Getting back to the thread... no, I was getting groceries, NOT going to see my grandson enter the world yet... damn!... and it's been an interesting read. I wanted to mention something that I posted in the thread started by the woman who started the petition...

I know someone who posed for TR. The first time she worked with him, he made some verbal advances, and she made it clear that she wasn't interested.

She said that they made some cool pics that day, and she has worked with him a couple more times since. He jokes around, flirts, but never tried anything worse than that ever since the first time.

This may or may not be the norm for him, just wanted to offer what I knew.
Nov 03 13 01:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C new portfolio
Posts: 2,384
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


A Visual Haiku wrote:
Getting back to the thread... no, I was getting groceries, NOT going to see my grandson enter the world yet... damn!... and it's been an interesting read. I wanted to mention something that I posted in the thread started by the woman who started the petition...

I know someone who posed for TR. The first time she worked with him, he made some verbal advances, and she made it clear that she wasn't interested.

She said that they made some cool pics that day, and she has worked with him a couple more times since. He jokes around, flirts, but never tried anything worse than that ever since the first time.

This may or may not be the norm for him, just wanted to offer what I knew.

It would not be accebtable to flirt in my profession because I am in a position of trust and power. I don't think it acceptable to flirt in any job when the degree of that involves for example wanting to get naked . The photographer that is. With some new hopeful and they are in a position of trust and power.

Nov 03 13 01:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Caitin Bre
Posts: 1,798
Naperville, Illinois, US


Tony Lawrence wrote:

True but don't provide those favors then complain later.   Say, no and leave but Hollywood thrives on bullshi& and gossip.   How much of this is true?   Can TR control or affect a models career?   Years ago I knew a beautiful woman who started some crap about Rod Stewart.   Don't be offering folks blow jobs and then get angry when they accept because that's all you got.   The larger point is have any models been forced to do anything?   No criminal complaints or lawsuits that I know of.

^this^

Nov 03 13 01:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C new portfolio
Posts: 2,384
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


eos3_300 wrote:

I disagree.
Those in power know all about Terry and chose to do nothing about him.

Then if they are complicit in it they are as you say diseased.

What I should have said is I never encountered anything like this working within the fashion industry. I was sent to shoot with photographers sometimes by the company I worked for but everyone always acted appropriately. Only when I did a shoot off my own back did I encounter the mofo.

Nov 03 13 01:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
LA StarShooter
Posts: 1,673
Los Angeles, California, US


I looked up Eliza's link about Lee Cropper and then did an image search. It's as if his work has disappeared from the web. I saw just the Asylum series and not much else. He is destroyed as a fashion photographer and can never work in the field again. I think he's still in jail? He got a heavy sentence.

In the U.S. usually sexual harrassment is a big lawsuit. In the U.K. it is jail apparently. What is described as assaults doesn't quite meet most U.S. states definition of sexual assault. It certainly meets harassment to tell them to touch the penis.

But the article didn't really show: force. Physical force. And that is usually the criterion for assault.
Nov 03 13 01:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C new portfolio
Posts: 2,384
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


LA StarShooter wrote:
I looked up Eliza's link about Lee Cropper and then did an image search. It's as if his work has disappeared from the web. I saw just the Asylum series and not much else. He is destroyed as a fashion photographer and can never work in the field again. I think he's still in jail? He got a heavy sentence.

In the U.S. usually sexual harrassment is a big lawsuit. In the U.K. it is jail apparently. What is described as assaults doesn't quite meet most U.S. states definition of sexual assault. It certainly meets harassment to tell them to touch the penis.

But the article didn't really show: force. Physical force. And that is usually the criterion for assault.

Quote from the article:

"He admitted carrying out three sexual attacks, one in September last year, and two on the same day in May this year. He had already been convicted of another sexual assault on a model in January this year, for which he was given a supervision order.


Judge Sean Lyons quashed the order, and jailed Cropper for a total of 33 months for the four assaults.

In his sentencing remarks, he said: “These girls trust they will be dealt with properly and professionally by a proper and professional person. They were deeply mistreated here and their trust was abused.

“Fear was created, I've read through the evidence and listened to what I've heard described. 'It was scary, it was terrifying, I was shaking'. It is a serious part of these offences.”

Ms Sweet said Cropper, who will be on the sex offenders register indefinitely and unable to photographer someone without another adult present, will look for an alternative career when he is released, and added: “His career as a photographer of any sort is over, there is no way he can go back to it.”


So he had previous form and was under a supervision order. You can take the piss out of women in the UK but you can't take the piss out of the law.

He didn't assault me...he refused to shoot unless I gave him sexual favours. This kind of behaviour is not acceptable in any workplace.

Nov 03 13 01:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J I M M I
Posts: 557
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US


Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:
It would not be accebtable to flirt in my profession because I am in a position of trust and power. I don't think it acceptable to flirt in any job when the degree of that involves for example wanting to get naked . The photographer that is. With some new hopeful and they are in a position of trust and power.

While I respect your opinion, I think it's silly to think that, in a creative context, that buttons aren't pushed. A film director may push an actor, a music producer may taunt a band in the studio or on stage, and a photographer may say things to get a model to open up more (no pun intended). It's a creative endeavor and that's the nature of that particular beast. I will admit that I am guilty of it myself.

I have photographed women who intended to pose in a bra, and I may have said that they had a great presence, a great shape, etc, and I thought she should do a topless pic. I don't consider it a bad thing that they considered it, and then did it. Did I take advantage of them? Well, in the context of creating art, no I did not.

I once worked a job where I was asked to do something I didn't feel comfortable doing. It was in line with the job I was hired for, but 'went beyond' the job description. Was i pressured to do it? Yes. Would I have been blacklisted if I'd refused? Well, in the market I was in, yes. So I did it. Didn't like it, but that's the way it was. And I had a family to feed, so there you go. What was I asked to do? Well, I was delivering a stove for a home improvement store, and they asked me to bring it up a flight of stairs, which wasn't in the agreement.

This may not be as glamorous as modeling/photography, but is essentially the same cause and result. It's human nature and a part of our culture that things are usually black & white, and there are rarely 100% right or wrong answers.

For what it's worth...

IMHO

Nov 03 13 01:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Caitin Bre
Posts: 1,798
Naperville, Illinois, US


Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:

Well this is it.

Is it however unethical as the photographer to strip naked while you shoot? How on earth is that acceptable? Would it be acceptable in any other job where nudity is not clearly part of the job?

I wouldn't care if the photographer, MUA, limo driver, producer etc... everyone there stripped naked for the shoot.

Nov 03 13 01:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
eos3_300
Posts: 1,450
Brooklyn, New York, US


A Visual Haiku wrote:

Big difference is saying what how do you think about doing this shot topless than What do you think doing this shot with my D$%k in your mouth and if you dont you'll never work in this biz again.

Nov 03 13 01:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C new portfolio
Posts: 2,384
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


A Visual Haiku wrote:

While I respect your opinion, I think it's silly to think that, in a creative context, that buttons aren't pushed. A film director may push an actor, a music producer may taunt a band in the studio or on stage, and a photographer may say things to get a model to open up more (no pun intended). It's a creative endeavor and that's the nature of that particular beast. I will admit that I am guilty of it myself.

I have photographed women who intended to pose in a bra, and I may have said that they had a great presence, a great shape, etc, and I thought she should do a topless pic. I don't consider it a bad thing that they considered it, and then did it. Did I take advantage of them? Well, in the context of creating art, no I did not.

I once worked a job where I was asked to do something I didn't feel comfortable doing. It was in line with the job I was hired for, but 'went beyond' the job description. Was i pressured to do it? Yes. Would I have been blacklisted if I'd refused? Well, in the market I was in, yes. So I did it. Didn't like it, but that's the way it was. And I had a family to feed, so there you go. What was I asked to do? Well, I was delivering a stove for a home improvement store, and they asked me to bring it up a flight of stairs, which wasn't in the agreement.

This may not be as glamorous as modeling/photography, but is essentially the same cause and result. It's human nature and a part of our culture that things are usually black & white, and there are rarely 100% right or wrong answers.

For what it's worth...

IMHO

The issue here is Terry Richardson by his own admission strips naked. That does NOT encourage the model but HE thinks it does. He then has admitted getting a buzz out of having sex in front of others in the room. In what world does this actually help the job?

Nov 03 13 01:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
LA StarShooter
Posts: 1,673
Los Angeles, California, US


Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:

Quote from the article:

"He admitted carrying out three sexual attacks, one in September last year, and two on the same day in May this year. He had already been convicted of another sexual assault on a model in January this year, for which he was given a supervision order.


Judge Sean Lyons quashed the order, and jailed Cropper for a total of 33 months for the four assaults.

In his sentencing remarks, he said: “These girls trust they will be dealt with properly and professionally by a proper and professional person. They were deeply mistreated here and their trust was abused.

“Fear was created, I've read through the evidence and listened to what I've heard described. 'It was scary, it was terrifying, I was shaking'. It is a serious part of these offences.”

Ms Sweet said Cropper, who will be on the sex offenders register indefinitely and unable to photographer someone without another adult present, will look for an alternative career when he is released, and added: “His career as a photographer of any sort is over, there is no way he can go back to it.”


So he had previous form and was under a supervision order. You can take the piss out of women in the UK but you can't take the piss out of the law.

He didn't assault me...he refused to shoot unless I gave him sexual favours. This kind of behaviour is not acceptable in any workplace.

That doesn't describe assault. What was actually described in the testimony doesn't seem to meet the U.S. standards for assault. It meets exposure, and, other things but sexual assault involves usually physical force or the threat of force.

Nov 03 13 02:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J I M M I
Posts: 557
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US


eos3_300 wrote:

Big difference is saying what how do you think about doing this shot topless than What do you think doing this shot with my D$%k in your mouth and if you dont you'll never work in this biz again.

I certainly agree with you. However.... for this particular thread (and all the TR threads that preceded it), I put more stock into what I learned from an individual that actually worked with the guy, than stuff written about in tabloids and blogs.

Nov 03 13 02:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C new portfolio
Posts: 2,384
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


Caitin Bre wrote:

I wouldn't care if the photographer, MUA, limo driver, producer etc... everyone there stripped naked for the shoot.

Well that's you. It is not for the most part the world of work. And I'd bet you'd look a bit funny at your doctor if he suggested he strip off with you as you may be a little bit less inhibited by your nudity. There is no way on earth anyone can defend a photographer wanting to strip naked. It iosn't required and it certainly wouldnt make 99% of models more comfortable.

Nov 03 13 02:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C new portfolio
Posts: 2,384
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


LA StarShooter wrote:

That doesn't describe assault. What was actually described in the testimony doesn't seem to meet the U.S. standards for assault. It meets exposure, and, other things but sexual assault involves usually physical force or the threat of force.

Well it met the threat of force as the judge said the models were frightened. Anyway he desrved to go down especially as he'd been done for it before.

Nov 03 13 02:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J I M M I
Posts: 557
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US


Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:

In what world does this actually help the job?

This can't be answered conclusively.

Hitchcock verbally taunted Janet Leigh when they did the shower scene in 'Psycho.' It is, IMO, one of the greatest scenes in cinema. Did he HAVE to taunt her like that? Maybe, maybe not.

Again, not trying to justify anyone's actions, but what one person thinks will work for a particular scenario may sound wacky to someone else.

Nov 03 13 02:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C new portfolio
Posts: 2,384
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


eos3_300 wrote:

Big difference is saying what how do you think about doing this shot topless than What do you think doing this shot with my D$%k in your mouth and if you dont you'll never work in this biz again.

You got it.

and it doesn't even have to be expressed that aggressively for you to feel it.

Nov 03 13 02:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chicchowmein
Posts: 14,320
Palm Beach, Florida, US


Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:
Well that's you.

She is just trying to make the thread about her.

It is irrelevant to the topic of Terry Richardson

Nov 03 13 02:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C new portfolio
Posts: 2,384
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


A Visual Haiku wrote:
This can't be answered conclusively.

Hitchcock verbally taunted Janet Leigh when they did the shower scene in 'Psycho.' It is, IMO, one of the greatest scenes in cinema. Did he HAVE to taunt her like that? Maybe, maybe not.

Again, not trying to justify anyone's actions, but what one person thinks will work for a particular scenario may sound wacky to someone else.

Being taunted is different to being persuanded to give sexual favour.

In general I mean not neceesarily Richardson who may of course be inoocent. Which is of course why I have said throughout I do not endorse this petition.

My point is simply that IF the allegations are true, that they should concern photographers and models.

This is part of what Rie Rasmussen said:

"He takes girls who are young, manipulates them to take their clothes off and takes pictures of them they will be ashamed of. They are too afraid to say no because their agency booked them on the job and are too young to stand up for themselves."

And that is what concerns me if it is true. It is NOT akin to two equal adults having consensual relations or shooting pictures you are comfortable with by both parties consenting, when one is in such a position of power. The idea that models who go along with it are somehow consenting because they know Richadson's reputation is not valid. It isn't like walking out on a gwc when you have such a big break and agencies have sent you.

Of course it may not be true; hence I have not signed the petition and think it has been blown out of proportion. Keeping a concerned eye on stories about Richardson however is not the same as damning him. And questioning photographers who think such behaviour if it is true it is somehow acceptable is also what has got me, reluctantly, to join in this thread when normally I keep quiet about it.

Nov 03 13 02:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photographe
Posts: 2,350
Bristol, England, United Kingdom


Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:
In what world does this actually help the job?

Not referring to Richardson specifically, but we live in an age where scandal is business. Sex and drugs boost ratings and boost tabloid sales. These days stories are being used by people of little talent or achievement to rejuvenate their tired careers.
It obviously helps his career because Madonna and other supposedly controversial people choose to work with him. He's not an aesthetic master as such, people are buying in to the whole lifestyle.

The world has changed, scandal is no longer an issue to people's careers. Take the dancer Ola as an example. She is going to be the most famous and richest dancer on that TV show, within the next few weeks, but for what exactly? For walking off set and being unprofessional actually.

Nov 03 13 02:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C new portfolio
Posts: 2,384
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


Photographe wrote:
Not referring to Richardson specifically, but we live in an age where scandal is business. Sex and drugs boost ratings and boost tabloid sales. These days stories are being used by people of little talent or achievement to rejuvenate their tired careers.
It obviously helps his career because Madonna and other supposedly controversial people choose to work with him. He's not an aesthetic master as such, people are buying in to the whole lifestyle.

The world has changed, scandal is no longer an issue to people's careers. Take the dancer Ola as an example. She is going to be the most famous and richest dancer on that TV show, within the next few weeks, but for what exactly? For walking off set and being unprofessional actually.

Yes unfortunately. which is why we must question anything we read in the tabloids. Can't be much news around for this petition to make headlines. And one wonders how much of such scandal is actually generated with encouragement from the participants.

Nevertheless I am concerned with the wider picture having been a victim myself of the casting couch mentality. If Richardson, or other photographers are using their positions of power when a model who trusts them and looks up to them for guidance, are actually trying it on with girls or pushing them beyond their limits its wrong. It is not akin to two consenting adults because the people are not of equal status. I just hope photographers consider what effect it can have. I see it as no different to a uni tutor or doctor or bank manager using a position of trust for sexual favour. Possibly even more acute with photographers. We often trust you guys so much we will model nude or close to nude. To take advantage of that in a professional context is an abuse of power. Don't get me wrong - AFTER a shoot being asked out for dinner or something may be ok. But even then be aware that sometimes models may feel pressurised to say yes so don't push it. I don't like the attitude expressed here that a model can simply say no if asked for sex or touched inappropriately or asked to shoot beyond their comfort zone. If asked, a model's first repsonse will always be 'what if I say no? Will it go against me in my career?' the same as in any other workplace when harrassed for sexual favour by a superior.

ok off to bed to watch a movie so night everyone! x

Nov 03 13 02:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chicchowmein
Posts: 14,320
Palm Beach, Florida, US


Photographe wrote:

Not referring to Richardson specifically, but we live in an age where scandal is business. Sex and drugs boost ratings and boost tabloid sales. These days stories are being used by people of little talent or achievement to rejuvenate their tired careers.
It obviously helps his career because Madonna and other supposedly controversial people choose to work with him. He's not an aesthetic master as such, people are buying in to the whole lifestyle.

The world has changed, scandal is no longer an issue to people's careers. Take the dancer Ola as an example. She is going to be the most famous and richest dancer on that TV show, within the next few weeks, but for what exactly? For walking off set and being unprofessional actually.

exactly

For celebs like Miley Cyrus, Richardson is the perfect photographer to shoot with BECAUSE of the controversy surrounding him.

Certain people are going to capitalize on his reputation.

Nov 03 13 02:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marin Photography NYC
Posts: 6,087
New York, New York, US


I think that whatever you do that you post should be agreed to and in writing and I think so many models are naive about what can and can not be posted. I find it unfair if you are unaware of the consequences. Many models are clueless about copyright laws and so forth and there I think is the bigger issue. Not just TR but in this business I think models really need to educate themselves about the laws.

Not saying I agree with the  petition but if it forces models to think and educate themselves then good for them.
Nov 03 13 02:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,075
Salem, Oregon, US


yeah but what about the girl who whips out her tits to help get her car loan? i overhead strippers talking about that once. women aren't 100% pure angels. some of them will work guys when it suits them. if there's an effort being made to clean things up then the actions of some women might warrant scrutiny as well. women play games with their sexuality and pretend to love a guy when they don't just to get his money or attention (or sperm) or otherwise benefit from the association. uncle terry is at least upfront about his business (assuming the things people say are true).

Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:
So thank you - at least some photographers can see what is wrong here. IF of course, it is true. And again; I do not think a petition is apt.

Nov 03 13 03:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
K E E L I N G
Posts: 39,717
Peoria, Illinois, US


Marin Photography NYC wrote:
I think that whatever you do that you post should be agreed to and in writing and I think so many models are naive about what can and can not be posted. I find it unfair if you are unaware of the consequences. Many models are clueless about copyright laws and so forth and there I think is the bigger issue. Not just TR but in this business I think models really need to educate themselves about the laws.

Not saying I agree with the  petition but if it forces models to think and educate themselves then good for them.

I honestly just don't have any idea how to respond to this post.  Any part of it.

Nov 03 13 03:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Natalia_Taffarel
Posts: 7,218
Buenos Aires, Buenos Aires, Argentina


Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:
"well let's get naked shall we and discuss it?"

would people say well she's free to walk out?
I think not.

Of course she can.

Or ask for a different employee.

Or let the bank guy know she doesn't appreciate the nakidness.

Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:
So Richardson, IF he is doing it is scum. And anyone who sees it as ok is not seeing things clearly.

Or maybe we think there's enough BULLSHIT in the world and someone doing what he pleases without forcing anyone to follow him - as long as everyone involved are adults - should be an example to follow.

The actual "Cases" against him state he said he would be happy or have more fun... it hasn't been said anything on the lines of cohercion : You will never work again if you don't do this

Nov 03 13 05:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 26,417
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


That Italian Guy wrote:

I think you'd be surprised how many people actually don't know of his reputation.

And I'm talking about models and photographers working in or around the fashion industry, not just random people on the street. I can perfectly well imagine that some innocent "New Face" from the Ukraine (or even Podunk Ohio) sent for a test or casting with TR wouldn't necessarily be aware of his reputation and certainly would never have seen his book or his blog.



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

though it is quite likely that her "agency "is aware and ( some would suggest ) should
be watching out for her best interests

Nov 03 13 07:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
bmiSTUDIO
Posts: 1,729
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


It seems odd that if there are other talented and skilled photographers in the industry, why would an agency or client want to risk working with someone of such a tainted reputation? Remember the public outcry about Tommy Hilfiger and others when they made stupid, racist comments? Social media can impact a company's bottom line in a short amount of time. It wouldn't take much to make noise about any company hiring Richardson. Just being associated with someone controversial can be bad news. I think the petition is the wrong direction. Making the world's consumers aware of Richardson's perversion is the way to go. When H&M and others are publicly humiliated through social media and consumers vow to stop buying their products, then we could see some people in the fashion industry respond to that pressure.
Nov 03 13 07:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brooklyn Bridge Images
Posts: 8,770
Brooklyn, New York, US


bmiSTUDIO wrote:
It seems odd that if there are other talented and skilled photographers in the industry, why would an agency or client want to risk working with someone of such a tainted reputation? Remember the public outcry about Tommy Hilfiger and others when they made stupid, racist comments? Social media can impact a company's bottom line in a short amount of time. It wouldn't take much to make noise about any company hiring Richardson. Just being associated with someone controversial can be bad news. I think the petition is the wrong direction. Making the world's consumers aware of Richardson's perversion is the way to go. When H&M and others are publicly humiliated through social media and consumers vow to stop buying their products, then we could see some people in the fashion industry respond to that pressure.

The world already knows about Terry's Perversions
Huge stink about him circa 2010
Bottom line
Nobody cares
Nobody meaning the people in power
Mag editors love him
Big clients want him because he's a big name celeb shooter
Agencies want him because he can bring deep pocket Big clients
Hey could send models back in body bags and they couldnt care
People at bottom of the food chain are expendable a guy that can bring in bookings like TR is not!!!
This guy is a Teflon Don

Nov 03 13 09:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Jebbia
Posts: 27,560
Phoenix, Arizona, US


I think someone may have stepped into it big time.
Nov 03 13 09:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 41,675
Salinas, California, US


Tony Lawrence wrote:
True but don't provide those favors then complain later.   Say, no and leave but Hollywood thrives on bullshi& and gossip.   How much of this is true?   Can TR control or affect a models career?   Years ago I knew a beautiful woman who started some crap about Rod Stewart.   Don't be offering folks blow jobs and then get angry when they accept because that's all you got.   The larger point is have any models been forced to do anything?   No criminal complaints or lawsuits that I know of.

Very true that information about nearly every person or subject is amplified on the Internet. We don't know what happened in each case for a "Fact" because we were not there.   It could be true, but more likely there has been at least some exaggeration. 

Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:
Well this is it.

Is it however unethical as the photographer to strip naked while you shoot? How on earth is that acceptable? Would it be acceptable in any other job where nudity is not clearly part of the job?

It IS unethical when anyone while in a position of authority takes advantage by committing ANY sexual misconduct  ... such as supervisor, manager, boss, teacher, or law enforcement abusing their power of authority.  IF Terry does these things he is accused of, then if enough models walk out when such misconduct happens, and file a complaint with their agency, then enough models will walk out before working with him ... the agencies stop sending  him models.  Again, that is "IF" it is true. 

There is no doubt that Terry Richardson facilitates drama around himself.  He admits to growing up with a messed up childhood, having a dad who left him to care for a mom who was ill, and that he was addicted to drugs.   He might be a messed up guy!   However, I wont sign "said" petition because I do not know for a fact that he is doing these things he is accused of, and even if he was guilty, then how many signatures will it take to get clients and businesses to not hire him?   

The real solution is for clients, publishers, agencies and other businesses involved with hiring photographers to start giving new talent (as in other photographers) a chance, and to listen to the models as they express their own reactions to working with various people.  A petition with hundreds of thousands of signatures from people who don't even know Terry Richardson is not going to do that.  It's not even fair to spread such a petition around if it's based on hearsay.

Nov 03 13 10:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C new portfolio
Posts: 2,384
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


Patrick Walberg wrote:

Tony Lawrence wrote:
True but don't provide those favors then complain later.   Say, no and leave but Hollywood thrives on bullshi& and gossip.   How much of this is true?   Can TR control or affect a models career?   Years ago I knew a beautiful woman who started some crap about Rod Stewart.   Don't be offering folks blow jobs and then get angry when they accept because that's all you got.   The larger point is have any models been forced to do anything?   No criminal complaints or lawsuits that I know of.

Very true that information about nearly every person or subject is amplified on the Internet. We don't know what happened in each case for a "Fact" because we were not there.   It could be true, but more likely there has been at least some exaggeration. 
It IS unethical when anyone while in a position of authority takes advantage by committing ANY sexual misconduct  ... such as supervisor, manager, boss, teacher, or law enforcement abusing their power of authority.  IF Terry does these things he is accused of, then if enough models walk out when such misconduct happens, and file a complaint with their agency, then enough models will walk out before working with him ... the agencies stop sending  him models.  Again, that is "IF" it is true. 

There is no doubt that Terry Richardson facilitates drama around himself.  He admits to growing up with a messed up childhood, having a dad who left him to care for a mom who was ill, and that he was addicted to drugs.   He might be a messed up guy!   However, I wont sign "said" petition because I do not know for a fact that he is doing these things he is accused of, and even if he was guilty, then how many signatures will it take to get clients and businesses to not hire him?   

The real solution is for clients, publishers, agencies and other businesses involved with hiring photographers to start giving new talent (as in other photographers) a chance, and to listen to the models as they express their own reactions to working with various people.  A petition with hundreds of thousands of signatures from people who don't even know Terry Richardson is not going to do that.  It's not even fair to spread such a petition around if it's based on hearsay.

This I agree with Patrick and have said so throughout the thread. It is why I didn't contribute to the actual petition thread. Petitions in general can be damaging to innocent people. As I said look at how many people now believe Marc Jacobs used dog fur in a collection when in fact it was nothing of the sort. So people should be very very careful what they put their names to.

Nevertheless while to me someone is innocent until proven guilty, what concerns me is the amount of people ready to excuse behaviour of a photographer using his position to abuse girls. Not that TR is doing this. But if a photographer in general was doing it the idea that a girl can always walk out. As I have stated this underestimates the perceptions of the model who finds herself in such a position. I have been, and I did decline to shoot. But I felt I had done something wrong, and it stopped me working for a while. I was a mess and fearful to shoot with any photographer. This guy was a big name at the time. So to me it is exactly the same as a uni tutor asking for sexual favour in return for good grades. The student - or model - is made to feel they will fail if they don't oblige. Not saying TR is doing this, just attacking the apologists saying
it's two consenting adults. Also those who say that women who deliberately make use of sex to get on in any industry somehow compensate for those that are abused. This latter point is extremely fallacious.

Nov 04 13 03:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ash Photographic
Posts: 333
Cirencester, England, United Kingdom


Getting your pecker out at home or in a social situation is one thing.

Getting it out and asking a model to suck on it at what is supposed to be a professional photoshoot is another thing entirely.

Anybody who tries to excuse such behaviour is clearly harbouring secret fantasies of one day doing the same thing and the model saying "yes".





Ash.
Nov 04 13 07:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
K E E L I N G
Posts: 39,717
Peoria, Illinois, US


Ash Photographic wrote:
Getting your pecker out at home or in a social situation is one thing.

Getting it out and asking a model to suck on it at what is supposed to be a professional photoshoot is another thing entirely.

Oh really?  You clearly encounter different social situations that I do.


Ash Photographic wrote:
Anybody who tries to excuse such behaviour is clearly harbouring secret fantasies of one day doing the same thing and the model saying "yes".





Ash.

hienvy

Nov 04 13 07:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 18,889
Chicago, Illinois, US


Ash Photographic wrote:
Getting your pecker out at home or in a social situation is one thing.

Getting it out and asking a model to suck on it at what is supposed to be a professional photoshoot is another thing entirely.

Anybody who tries to excuse such behaviour is clearly harbouring secret fantasies of one day doing the same thing and the model saying "yes".





Ash.

No one is excusing bad behavior or acts.   However are we sure what's actually going on?   Do you believe that he's doing this in front of art directors or clients?   Are these stories true or like urban legends?   TR has been around for a while.   Why haven't any of these offended models gone to the police  or found a lawyer to sue him.   TR shoots big campaigns and stars.   He's a easy target even if none of this or parts are true.   I don't work in the fashion industry and few members on MM actually seem too.   How many models on this site or photographers have met TR?   Much less worked with him.   A few here have said they wouldn't work with TR.   Like he's asking them...LOL.

Sometimes people get caught up in the moment.   I've had models come with friends and in a few cases both removed all their clothes.   Once a model asked if she and her girl friend could do some erotic and explicit shots.   A bit of a surprise to her friend who still said YES.    We as outsiders don't know what's going on.   Models here may tell past stories about funky situations but if they didn't happen with Terry they have nothing to do with him.   What did HE do with his models?   Did he force himself on anyone?   Did he break any laws?

Nov 04 13 08:13 am  Link  Quote 
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