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Photographer
kevin bellanger
Posts: 465
Albany, New York, US


The NY post is awesome. haters gadda hate.
Nov 04 13 04:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mikey McMichaels
Posts: 1,765
New York, New York, US


Ash Photographic wrote:

"He told me, “if you make me come, you get an A.” So I did! Pretty fast, I might add. All over my left hand. His assistant handed me a towel."

http://www.thegloss.com/2010/03/16/fash … els-story/

Are you suggesting this is acceptable just because she didn't file charges?



Ash.

+1 to it's not a sworn deposition.

I would not describe that as acceptable unless it was consented to beforehand.

I also would not describe believing anything you read in print as fact as acceptable either.

It's acceptable for someone to make allegations without filing charges, but it's not acceptable for other people to repeat those allegations as facts.

Nov 04 13 04:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Will Snizek Photography
Posts: 1,387
Beckley, West Virginia, US


R Byron Johnson wrote:
I have no idea if the allegations against him are true or not and I don't really care that much.  Either way, Terry Richardson is an overrated hack whose main "talent" is in getting supermodels to pose in explicit ways.  How he does this, I don't know; but that's really all he's known for.  Looking at his photography itself, it's incredibly mediocre and boring and any nitwit can do the same as he does with a crappy point-and-shoot.  Plus he involves himself so much in the shoots he does, I always feel like I'm looking through the trophy shots of some old-ass pervert rather than looking at real photography.

All art is subjective.  Many would scrutinize your work with the same terms.  If someone is breaking the law, then they should face penalties. So far, everything on this guy is very speculative at best.  What is "real photography" by the way?

Nov 04 13 04:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mikey McMichaels
Posts: 1,765
New York, New York, US


eos3_300 wrote:

Actually it seems like some are

No one is. People are calling out posters on treating their own assumptions as facts. Suspending judgement is different from condoning behavior.

Nov 04 13 04:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Will Snizek wrote:
All art is subjective.  Many would scrutinize your work with the same terms.  If someone is breaking the law, then they should face penalties. So far, everything on this guy is very speculative at best.  What is "real photography" by the way?

Yes, art is subjective, but morality isn't as much.  And again, fuck the law.  I get sick of people acting like the law is all that matter.s, as if morality and ethics don't.  Sorry, but get real.  There's a lot of wrong shit that people do that technically doesn't violate any laws, but is still fucked-up regardless.

Nov 04 13 04:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Nov 04 13 04:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 18,984
Chicago, Illinois, US


R Byron Johnson wrote:

I apologize for appearing so confrontational.  It's just that Richardson is like my anti-christ as far as I'm concerned.  It's more directed at him than you.

No worries.   This has actually been a good discussion and I think that its important that people in powerful positions not abuse their power.   Sadly Presidents, Popes, CEO's and top fashion photographers do it.   My guess is some of the models feel pressured even in a indirect way.   If that's true then its wrong.   I just don't know what's true and lets also hear from TR.   Still I'm thinking about some of the past models I've known.   Wannabe actors, etc. who would go to auditions and parties and clubs with the intention of screwing for a job.   You see them at NBA games.   I recall a fine sista' I knew who lived at a building I worked at.   She was all dolled up one night with a short as^ dress and killer make-up.   She was Miss America fine and she had a boyfriend.

I said, what's up.   I'm going out to give (no name) some puss*.   He is a well known singer.   I saw her a few days later.   What's up?   Mission accomplished was her response.   You could be right and TR is abusing his power.   It could be that many if not most of these ladies know exactly what their doing.   That doesn't make it right for sure but it shifts some of the responsibility to  them.

Nov 04 13 04:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Will Snizek Photography
Posts: 1,387
Beckley, West Virginia, US


R Byron Johnson wrote:
Yes, art is subjective, but morality isn't as much.  And again, fuck the law.  I get sick of people acting like the law is all that matter.s, as if morality and ethics don't.  Sorry, but get real.  There's a lot of wrong shit that people that technically doesn't violate any laws, but is still fucked-up regardless.

That's true to a degree.  I definitely don't think he's a good guy, but if he gets crucified without some kind of official charge or firm evidence, that sets up people who aren't morally bankrupt for persecution as well.  I want to see more evidence on this guy.  His shoots are crowded affairs with large staffs.  Acquiring more solid evidence wouldn't be too difficult.

Either way, I think the guy is a scumbag, but just thinking that about someone isn't enough.  And trust me, special interest groups will use him as an example to go after all nude photographers.

Nov 04 13 04:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mikey McMichaels
Posts: 1,765
New York, New York, US


Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:

I want to hear the answer to that from Tony and others who seem to think it's acceptable too. Just assume for a moment the girls story is true.

Ok. Let's assume that the girl's story isn't true. Now what?

How about this, I assume it's true, and that he's a serial rapist and that they only reason that 100% of the people he's shot of all genders/gender identities have been raped or coerced in to sex and/or photos they did not want to participate in.

Now all that's happened is that I've made up a story out of my imagination that's based on an assumption. If there's anything factually incorrect in the assumption, then all of that imagined story is 100% fiction.



Your imagination of what Terry has done may be 100% accurate, but you have to keep it clear in your own head that it's imagination based on an assumption. The next step is to get confirmation of your assumption, not spread a story that you have imagined based on an assumption.

The model with the petition, should have asked people to tell her first hand Terry stories and put her in touch with other people who could tell first hand stories.



Terry's response to all of this is exactly what the NYPD advises when you've been threatened with character assassination and go to them to make a harassment complaint.

Nov 04 13 05:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mikey McMichaels
Posts: 1,765
New York, New York, US


Eliza C  new portfolio wrote:

But lets face it he isn't exactly a great photographer. If I'd had a request from a photographer to do a shoot with him naked with bananas or that wrecking ball video I'd turn it down on the grounds of naffness. The emperor is truly wearing no clothes.

I think things are changing. Of the fashion editorial shoot I did recently (my avatar was from the shoot) four of the designers are using sustainable ethical sources, and the magazine made a story of that. I know even at corporate level there is concern over such. That may not be affecting many of the corporations producing cheap stuff though true.

You realize that he didn't ask Miley to be in that video, right?

It seems odd to imagine that there's a way in which you could end up being asked by Terry or anyone to be in that video.

Nov 04 13 05:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mikey McMichaels
Posts: 1,765
New York, New York, US


R Byron Johnson wrote:
I have no idea if the allegations against him are true or not and I don't really care that much.  Either way, Terry Richardson is an overrated hack whose main "talent" is in getting supermodels to pose in explicit ways.  How he does this, I don't know; but that's really all he's known for.  Looking at his photography itself, it's incredibly mediocre and boring and any nitwit can do the same as he does with a crappy point-and-shoot.  Plus he involves himself so much in the shoots he does, I always feel like I'm looking through the trophy shots of some old-ass pervert rather than looking at real photography.

Yet another assumption. What makes you think Terry is getting the models to pose the way they do as opposed to just keeping his mouth shut?

I can't believe some of the things models have done unsolicited, during shoots, or have told me they've done unsolicited.

I can even cite a model who told me she was going to have sex with the photographer she was shooting with that night and that he didn't know that was her plan.

Unless you've witnessed him direct a supermodel to pose in an explicit way, you're just assuming that he does.

Nov 04 13 05:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Will Snizek wrote:

That's true to a degree.  I definitely don't think he's a good guy, but if he gets crucified without some kind of official charge or firm evidence, that sets up people who aren't morally bankrupt for persecution as well.  I want to see more evidence on this guy.  His shoots are crowded affairs with large staffs.  Acquiring more solid evidence wouldn't be too difficult.

Either way, I think the guy is a scumbag, but just thinking that about someone isn't enough.  And trust me, special interest groups will use him as an example to go after all nude photographers.

I completely agree with you that if he's ever to be convicted of a crime, there should be much harder evidence than what is currently available.  But there's a difference between a court of law and the court of public opinion, and when it comes to the latter, he's guilty as fuck.

And I ABSOLUTELY agree with your latter point.  That's what bothers me so much about Richardson.  I have a similar style as him, but I'm WAY more respectful to the models who work for me than he is.  And I'm sick of having to compensate for assholes like him in the sense that I'm always having to reassure models that I will not try to take advantage of them or try to pressure them into doing things they don't wanna do.

And I know it's a "slippery slope" as it involves ultra-conservatives who want to ban nudity and sexual content in general.  But we individuals who are smarter than that need to make the distinction between artistic and flat-out sleazy to continue to prove our competence. Photographers like Richardson do more harm for our cause than good.

Nov 04 13 05:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Mikey McMichaels wrote:
Yet another assumption. What makes you think Terry is getting the models to pose the way they do as opposed to just keeping his mouth shut?

I can't believe some of the things models have done unsolicited, during shoots, or have told me they've done unsolicited.

I can even cite a model who told me she was going to have sex with the photographer she was shooting with that night and that he didn't know that was her plan.

Unless you've witnessed him direct a supermodel to pose in an explicit way, you're just assuming that he does.

Oh yay.  The classic cop-out argument that if you didn't witness it yourself then you don't know for sure.  Never seen that before.

Get fucking real.  With how often he's accused of being a shitty scumbag, it gets easier to believe with each new accusation.  Oh, but I'm sure they're all just mean-spirited sluts with an axe to grind and he did nothing wrong.

Nov 04 13 05:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mikey McMichaels
Posts: 1,765
New York, New York, US


K E E L I N G wrote:

Instead of accusing people of condoning abuse, shouldn't you respect the people who choose not to speculate?  They are the ones who are taking the higher ground in this and deciding that without any kind of proof whatsoever it's unfair to either speculate or condemn.  It doesn't mean they condone bad behavior, it means they don't want to ruin someone over something that they don't know happened.

The problem is that she can't make that distinction, just like she can't make the distinction between assumptions, hearsay and facts.

Nov 04 13 05:16 pm  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
Giacomo Cirrincioni
Posts: 20,930
New York, New York, US


R Byron Johnson wrote:
I have a similar style as him, but I'm WAY more respectful to the models who work for me than he is.

I don't think you're aware of much, if not most, of his work.  And how do even know the latter to be true?  Simply because you don't like what he shot?

Nov 04 13 05:20 pm  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
Giacomo Cirrincioni
Posts: 20,930
New York, New York, US


R Byron Johnson wrote:

Oh yay.  The classic cop-out argument that if you didn't witness it yourself then you don't know for sure.  Never seen that before.

Get fucking real.  With how often he's accused of being a shitty scumbag, it gets easier to believe with each new accusation.  Oh, but I'm sure they're all just mean-spirited sluts with an axe to grind and he did nothing wrong.

How many times has he been accused of that?

Nov 04 13 05:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote:

I don't think you're aware of much, if not most, of his work.  And how do even know the latter to be true?  Simply because you don't like what he shot?

I'm VERY familiar with his work because of how often I'm compared with him, and it all SUCKS.  It's all the exact same mediocre shit.

Nov 04 13 05:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote:

I don't think you're aware of much, if not most, of his work.  And how do even know the latter to be true?  Simply because you don't like what he shot?

Have you seen his work?

Nov 04 13 05:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Robert Randall
Posts: 13,842
Chicago, Illinois, US


R Byron Johnson wrote:

I'm VERY familiar with his work because of how often I'm compared with him, and it all SUCKS.  It's all the exact same mediocre shit.

I'm enjoying you a great deal, you're fun!

Nov 04 13 05:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote:

How many times has he been accused of that?

Bottom line:  What he shoots is 90% porn, period.  If he was just honest about that, it would be fine, but he so often wants people to believe that the porn he makes is high art that it's fucking disgusting.  Did you hear about the photos he took of his female assistant sitting in a trashcan while blowing him?  OMG!  THAT'S SO ARTISTIC!

Nov 04 13 05:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Robert Randall wrote:
I'm enjoying you a great deal, you're fun!

I know this offensive, but fuck it.  Most photographers who envy Terry Richardson do so because they want to be exactly like him.  They want to exploit and fuck young models just like he does.  And if fucking models is your main priority for doing photography, then you're a shit photographer.

Nov 04 13 05:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Everything I've said about Terry Richardson in this thread is true.  Just google it.
Nov 04 13 05:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mikey McMichaels
Posts: 1,765
New York, New York, US


R Byron Johnson wrote:

Oh yay.  The classic cop-out argument that if you didn't witness it yourself then you don't know for sure.  Never seen that before.

Get fucking real.  With how often he's accused of being a shitty scumbag, it gets easier to believe with each new accusation.  Oh, but I'm sure they're all just mean-spirited sluts with an axe to grind and he did nothing wrong.

That's the thing, it's not new accusations, it's the same one over and over. People post multiple links, but it's to multiple sites that are all reusing the same blog post.

People had all sorts of ideas on how to get the Dave Hill look, but there was not one single tutorial that said shoot everything separately and then combine it in 100+ layers. Everyone assumed, not one person based it on any first hand knowledge.

What I'm saying is that the multiple stories are coming not from the people they happened to,, but from emotionally reactive people who've been manipulated into doing someone's dirty work.

Look who started the petition. Not a victim, not a friend of a victim, someone who'd read a three year old blog post.


We all know that many high end shoots have story boards drawn by art directors. Have any of Terry's shoots been story boarded? If so, which ones? Were any of these models imitating storyboarded posts?


For a long time I believe that where there's smoke there's fire and there are two sides to every story and the truth lies somewhere in-between. Then I had some first hand experiences that were really eye opening and I could see how the more over the top the story was, the further from the truth it was, the further it pulled that "somewhere in-between" from the truth, and there are a lot of people who know that and use it.


You and I have never met, but if I were to say that you raped me and threatened me and a whole other list of things, people would look at you and say "Well?" And you'd say it's not true and that we'd never even met. Then I could say that's not true and go on and on and eventually people would think that I might not be describing things, but that something must have happened - maybe an drunken altercation or something. People wouldn't know what to believe, but they'd think the truth was somewhere in the middle, and you're credibility would be tarnished.

Then suppose I had one verifiable fact - a photo of us at an event that someone snapped while we were both listening to what someone else was saying, or happened to be in a line next to each other. Then I say, look, we have met, and then you look like you're lying to cover something up.


I'm not saying that the allegations are not true, I'm talking about the flaw in believing one side of a story where there's nothing but a person's word to back it up. If you don't know that person really well, then you don't know if their word means anything.

Nov 04 13 05:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mikey McMichaels
Posts: 1,765
New York, New York, US


R Byron Johnson wrote:
Everything I've said about Terry Richardson in this thread is true.  Just google it.

Is this a joke or a serious post?

Nov 04 13 05:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote:

How many times has he been accused of that?

Are you illiterate?  Read the same articles I did and you'll have your answer.

Nov 04 13 05:39 pm  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
Giacomo Cirrincioni
Posts: 20,930
New York, New York, US


R Byron Johnson wrote:

I'm VERY familiar with his work because of how often I'm compared with him, and it all SUCKS.  It's all the exact same mediocre shit.

You mean like this:

http://trendland.com/jimmy-choo-09-camp … ichardson/

Or this:

http://sneakhype.com/chicas/2009/11/ter … paign.html

Or this:

http://www.thefashionspot.com/buzz-news … ichardson/

Or this:

http://iconolo.gy/archive/noctambule-te … -paris/288

Which of these are you so often compared to?  Please do tell.  Or maybe it's shots like this that cause onlookers to have such a difficult time telling his work from  yours:

http://frillr.com/?q=node/804

Nov 04 13 05:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 18,984
Chicago, Illinois, US


This is a link to some of TR's 'shitty' work.   http://www.complex.com/art-design/2013/ … to-shoots/   I'm talking covers, editorials and campaigns.   If I get half as good as he is I'll be happy.   So its clear.   I have studied work by Avedon, Bailey, Penn, Meisel, Newton, Alas and Piggott and others and TR is fantastic.   I also can separate the person from the controversy.
Nov 04 13 05:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Mikey McMichaels wrote:

Is this a joke or a serious post?

What a chickenshit response.  Of course I was serious.  If it was a joke, then where's the punchline?

Nov 04 13 05:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote:

You mean like this:

http://trendland.com/jimmy-choo-09-camp … ichardson/

Or this:

http://sneakhype.com/chicas/2009/11/ter … paign.html

Or this:

http://www.thefashionspot.com/buzz-news … ichardson/

Or this:

http://iconolo.gy/archive/noctambule-te … -paris/288

Which of these are you so often compared to?  Please do tell.  Or maybe it's shots like this that cause onlookers to have such a difficult time telling his work from  yours:

http://frillr.com/?q=node/804

YES, like that.  Mediocre fucking garbage.

Nov 04 13 05:41 pm  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
Giacomo Cirrincioni
Posts: 20,930
New York, New York, US


Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote:
How many times has he been accused of that?
R Byron Johnson wrote:
Are you illiterate?  Read the same articles I did and you'll have your answer.

Ok so one.  If you count others that, like you, don't actually know anything other than the fact that they don't like him, then two or three.

Nov 04 13 05:42 pm  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
Giacomo Cirrincioni
Posts: 20,930
New York, New York, US


Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote:
You mean like this:

http://trendland.com/jimmy-choo-09-camp … ichardson/

Or this:

http://sneakhype.com/chicas/2009/11/ter … paign.html

Or this:

http://www.thefashionspot.com/buzz-news … ichardson/

Or this:

http://iconolo.gy/archive/noctambule-te … -paris/288

Which of these are you so often compared to?  Please do tell.  Or maybe it's shots like this that cause onlookers to have such a difficult time telling his work from  yours:

http://frillr.com/?q=node/804
R Byron Johnson wrote:
YES, like that.  Mediocre fucking garbage.

Ok, cool. 

I'm assuming you consider your work better then that and that's why you get so pissed off when people confuse your work for his, or visa versa?

How often does that happen exactly?  It must suck, I can only imagine.  Which of his advertising campaigns is your work most often compared to?

Nov 04 13 05:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Tony Lawrence wrote:
This is a link to some of TR's 'shitty' work.   http://www.complex.com/art-design/2013/ … to-shoots/   I'm talking covers, editorials and campaigns.   If I get half as good as he is I'll be happy.   So its clear.   I have studied work by Avedon, Bailey, Penn, Meisel, Newton, Alas and Piggott and others and TR is fantastic.   I also can separate the person from the controversy.

Sorry, but I disagree.  TR is far from fantastic.  He got into the industry only because his father was involved in it.  If not for that, he'd just be some other random perv on the internet taking naked and candid photos of naive college girls on the internet.

Nov 04 13 05:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Robert Randall
Posts: 13,842
Chicago, Illinois, US


R Byron Johnson wrote:

What a chickenshit response.  Of course I was serious.  If it was a joke, then where's the punchline?

I get no joy in telling you this, but I believe what a number of us are telling you, is that you are the punch line.

Nov 04 13 05:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote:

Giacomo Cirrincioni wrote:
How many times has he been accused of that?

Ok so one.  If you count others that, like you, don't actually know anything other than the fact that they don't like him, then two or three.

What does this even mean?  Your response says nothing.

Nov 04 13 05:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 18,984
Chicago, Illinois, US


R Byron Johnson wrote:

Sorry, but I disagree.  TR is far from fantastic.  He got into the industry only because his father was involved in it.  If not for that, he'd just be some other random perv on the internet taking naked and candid photos of naive college girls on the internet.

http://frillr.com/?q=node/804 this that he shot for Diesel is some of the best commercial ad work I've seen.   I'm curious.   Who do you feel is a great fashion or advertising photographer working now.

Nov 04 13 05:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Robert Randall wrote:

I get no joy in telling you this, but I believe what a number of us are telling you, is that you are the punch line.

Oh whatever, that's just a snarky and trollish response.

Nov 04 13 05:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Robert Randall
Posts: 13,842
Chicago, Illinois, US


R Byron Johnson wrote:

Oh whatever, that's just a snarky and trollish response.

I'm trying to be polite in telling you that you are acting like a fool. You're undermining your reputation to the point that every time you post from this point forward, most people wont take you seriously. If that's trolling, I guess I'm guilty.

Nov 04 13 05:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Fuck you people, you're only proving my point.

You all have such a hard-on for Terry Richardson ONLY because he's famous.  If you saw an MM profile on here like his you would think they sucked.  But OMG he's famous and successful so I'm gonna like him and act like he's awesome.   

Or, truth be told, maybe some of you photogs dream of making it to Richardson's level specifically so that you can exploit young models for your own pleasure.
Nov 04 13 05:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Strength Studios
Posts: 334
West Hazleton, Pennsylvania, US


A Visual Haiku wrote:
I was born and raised in NYC but haven't lived there for quite a number of years.

When i did live there, everyone thought that The Post was a piece-of-shit tabloid, suspect in its legitimacy, and always had an agenda based on sensationalist horseshit.

Has this somehow changed, or is it the same rag it has always been?i.

If anything it has gone downhill since then, hard to believe I know

Nov 04 13 05:52 pm  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
Giacomo Cirrincioni
Posts: 20,930
New York, New York, US


R Byron Johnson wrote:

What does this even mean?  Your response says nothing.

Well there's a whole bunch of articles, but they're all referencing the same one girl, who's over it and admits that she did what she did because she got caught up in the moment. 

But maybe my research isn't as thorough as yours.  How many different women have you read about that have come forward and complained that he coerced them, either actively or passively, into doing something they didn't want to do?

Nov 04 13 05:53 pm  Link  Quote 
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