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12last
Photographer
grateful photography
Posts: 90
Asheville, North Carolina, US


Einstein™ E640 Flash Unit or
AlienBees™ B1600 Flash Unit

Im looking for a 2 strobe setup that would be good for studio or location shoots

Allso would be good with battery pacts etc.. please let me know what you all think
Nov 07 13 06:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rich_photos
Posts: 6
Jonesboro, Arkansas, US


I personally would go with 2 B800s.
Nov 07 13 06:34 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Schlake
Posts: 2,344
Socorro, New Mexico, US


As an Alien Bee owner, I definitely want to try the Einstein.  I have four B800s.  In small spaces, they are far too bright and difficult to dial down enough to be usable.  But that is only small spaces.  If you don't have to deal with that then the 1600s should be awesome.  The ABs themselves work pretty well, and I don't have major issues with consistency on mine.  But the Einsteins are supposedly much better, and if you are more demanding, they could be a better choice.
Nov 07 13 06:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Schlake
Posts: 2,344
Socorro, New Mexico, US


Oh, and the new Li vagabond packs from Pual C Buff look amazing.
Nov 07 13 06:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BlueMoonPics
Posts: 4,257
New York, New York, US


I own Einsteins and I love them.  I only use them indoors.
I love that I can remotely turn the power up or down individually or in a group, among many other features.
Nov 07 13 06:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Loki Studio
Posts: 2,959
Royal Oak, Michigan, US


I have personally found the power of the AB800s to be plenty, and hardly ever use them at full power.  I would spend the difference in $$$ on wireless triggers with remote power control such as the Radio Popper JrX

http://radiopopper-test-store.myshopify … ts/jrx-kit

and more modifiers such as the AB PLM, stripbox, and grids.  The Vagabond Mini is a great and solid battery solution.  You will only need much more power if you are often shooting outside in a "overpower the sun" type of shot.
Nov 07 13 06:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hank Shiffman
Posts: 373
Mountain View, California, US


I had a collection of Alien Bees but replaced them with Einsteins.  The Einsteins are much more versatile, covering a power range from the minimum of an AB400 to the max of an AB1600.  They're also capable of full remote configuration if you get the CyberCommander trigger and CyberSync receivers.  The CC has a built-in light meter; you can trigger each light, get a reading and then adjust the power where you want it without touching the light.  And I like the ability to change the power from the camera (e.g. from F/8 to F/4) without having to configure each light individually.  Very convenient.
Nov 07 13 07:05 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mike Collins
Posts: 1,837
Orlando, Florida, US


I've used 3 AB 800s with very little problems over the past 12 years.  Heck, I can't really think of any problems actually.  But, if I were to purchase more today, I'd go with the Einsteins.  Digital control.  More consistent output both in color and in power, though personally this has never been a problem with me with my ABs. 

I do own an AB1600 that did get stuck in full power a few years back.  $80 fix.  But between the two, 1600 or Einstein?  Not even a second thought.  Einstein.
Nov 07 13 07:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Image Works Photography
Posts: 2,890
Orlando, Florida, US


You can use a B1600 even for a studio. You just add more diffusers to the soft box and also the bigger the soft box the softer the light is going to be. I see it all the time at the mall. I bought mine for outdoor use for plenty of power and it does the job very well. I love the setup I have though I still use speed lights because of the convenience factor
Nov 07 13 07:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Garage Photography
Posts: 273
Calgary, Alberta, Canada


I use the Elinchrom Ranger RX speed  asymetrical system. Indoors or outdoors, works awesome. 1100 ws gives me plenty of power. I have a friend who just bought a Hensel and he seems to like it.
Nov 07 13 07:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Fisher
Posts: 1,867
Miami Beach, Florida, US


http://www.johnfisher.com/images/1einstein7197fs.jpg

If I had to choose between the AB1600 and the Einstein E640, I'd definitely go with the Einstein's. The AB1600 is a good and reliable strobe, but it is most consistent at full power. As you power it down as you often would in a studio setting, the color consistency starts to wander and the flash duration gets longer and longer (resulting in motion blur when the subject is moving).

I wrote a series of articles on the Einsteins when they were originally released and they may be of some value when evaluating your lighting needs. Also, because the Einstein's were introduced with the new Cyber Commander, it is much easier to remotely control the Einstein's (the Cyber Commander works with the Alien Bees, but the setup is much more complicated).

The Vagabond Mini power source is wonderful for location shooting, but with two lights if possible I do recommend having a separate Vagabond Mini for each light. The Vagabond Mini does have a connection for two lights, but the recycle time is slower, and the Mini won't last as long (having a separate battery with you is an inexpensive solution to that problem!).

The Alien Bees AB1600 is a good strobe, the Einstein is a great strobe!

John
Sponsored Photographer for Paul C. Buff Companies (Alien Bees, White Lightning, Zeus and Einstein)
--
John Fisher
900 West Avenue, Suite 633
Miami Beach, Florida 330139
(305) 534-9322
http://www.johnfisher.com
Nov 07 13 07:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
grateful photography
Posts: 90
Asheville, North Carolina, US


John Fisher wrote:
http://www.johnfisher.com/images/1einstein7197fs.jpg

If I had to choose between the AB1600 and the Einstein E640, I'd definitely go with the Einstein's. The AB1600 is a good and reliable strobe, but it is most consistent at full power. As you power it down as you often would in a studio setting, the color consistency starts to wander and the flash duration gets longer and longer (resulting in motion blur when the subject is moving).

I wrote a series of articles on the Einsteins when they were originally released and they may be of some value when evaluating your lighting needs. Also, because the Einstein's were introduced with the new Cyber Commander, it is much easier to remotely control the Einstein's (the Cyber Commander works with the Alien Bees, but the setup is much more complicated).

The Vagabond Mini power source is wonderful for location shooting, but with two lights if possible I do recommend having a separate Vagabond Mini for each light. The Vagabond Mini does have a connection for two lights, but the recycle time is slower, and the Mini won't last as long (having a separate battery with you is an inexpensive solution to that problem!).

The Alien Bees AB1600 is a good strobe, the Einstein is a great strobe!

John
Sponsored Photographer for Paul C. Buff Companies (Alien Bees, White Lightning, Zeus and Einstein)
--
John Fisher
900 West Avenue, Suite 633
Miami Beach, Florida 330139
(305) 534-9322
http://www.johnfisher.com

thanks just got the kit with 2 battery pacts etc..

Nov 07 13 07:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,361
Salem, Oregon, US


i find my b800s too powerful and got some b400s. not sure what i would do with a b1600 unless i was trying to overpower the sun.

i love my bees.
Nov 07 13 08:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,379
Orlando, Florida, US


Rich_photos wrote:
I personally would go with 2 B800s.

I know you're new, but when you say stuff like this, you should give a short sentence explaining why.  Otherwise, you're just talking.

I have B800s and Einsteins.  I use the Einsteins every shoot, and always grab those first when going on location.

The 250W modeling lamps of the Einsteins are far more useful than the 150W standard bulbs in the B800s (or B1600).  The "action" mode of the Einsteins will fire a strobe so fast, it can freeze a hair throw and you'll see individual hairs frozen in time.

When you get a B1600 or B800, you'll get a nearly indestructible strobe that will serve you for many years.  But when you get an Einstein, you get so much more than just a strobe.  You get control.  And you get options.

I absolutely love my Einsteins.

For the record, Rocks, your B400 only go to 5Ws as a minimum.  The Einsteins go down to 2.5Ws.  And all the way up to 640Ws.  That's enough to overpower the sun.

This was shot with an Einstein through a 22" beauty dish, right into the sun.
http://macenstein.com/default/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/MCotM_11_2013_Emily_Weiss_02.jpg

Nov 07 13 09:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
grateful photography
Posts: 90
Asheville, North Carolina, US


Good Egg Productions wrote:

I know you're new, but when you say stuff like this, you should give a short sentence explaining why.  Otherwise, you're just talking.

I have B800s and Einsteins.  I use the Einsteins every shoot, and always grab those first when going on location.

The 250W modeling lamps of the Einsteins are far more useful than the 150W standard bulbs in the B800s (or B1600).  The "action" mode of the Einsteins will fire a strobe so fast, it can freeze a hair throw and you'll see individual hairs frozen in time.

When you get a B1600 or B800, you'll get a nearly indestructible strobe that will serve you for many years.  But when you get an Einstein, you get so much more than just a strobe.  You get control.  And you get options.

I absolutely love my Einsteins.

For the record, Rocks, your B400 only go to 5Ws as a minimum.  The Einsteins go down to 2.5Ws.  And all the way up to 640Ws.  That's enough to overpower the sun.

This was shot with an Einstein through a 22" beauty dish, right into the sun.
http://macenstein.com/default/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/MCotM_11_2013_Emily_Weiss_02.jpg

love it just got me the 2 kit Einstein with battery pacts I will be happy im sure

Nov 07 13 10:18 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,379
Orlando, Florida, US


grateful photography wrote:

love it just got me the 2 kit Einstein with battery pacts I will be happy im sure

Smart purchase.

Just a note.  You might want to unplug the units after you're done with a shoot.  They seem to draw a little power even when off.  I've noticed that when I leave mine plugged in, they are barely warm to the touch hours or days later.

But then I'm also the guy you unplugs his iPhone charger from the wall when not charging.

Nov 07 13 10:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
grateful photography
Posts: 90
Asheville, North Carolina, US


Good Egg Productions wrote:

Smart purchase.

Just a note.  You might want to unplug the units after you're done with a shoot.  They seem to draw a little power even when off.  I've noticed that when I leave mine plugged in, they are barely warm to the touch hours or days later.

But then I'm also the guy you unplugs his iPhone charger from the wall when not charging.

good idea

Nov 07 13 12:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Swanson Studios
Posts: 402
Galesburg, Illinois, US


It all depends on the size of your space.  alien Bee 1600 is going to completely blow out a small studio even at the lowest settings.  I use a Bee 400 in my small space and it is more than adequate.
Nov 07 13 12:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Barely StL
Posts: 785
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


I don't own any PCB products, but I've used them about three dozen times in seven studios owned by other photographers. Most of the photographers have White Lightnings, AB's and Einsteins that they've acquired over a period of years.

The largest of these studios was 80x120 feet with a 20-foot ceiling and an 80-foot cyc wall. It was designed  primarily for shooting vehicles from motorcycles to 18-wheelers. I've never used any of them at full power - although I'm sure I'd want something even more powerful if I were shooting 18-wheelers.

I can't recall the last time I had any strobe (including my 1,000-watt/second Photogenic Solairs) powered above 200 w/s, and they're usually powered below 100 w/s. Unless you're shooting large sets, trying to overpower the sun outdoors, or using dark gels, I can't imagine why any of the PCB products wouldn't have enough power for a small studio.

If I were going with a PCB product, I'd go with Einsteins, if only for the consistent color and constant color features. That means that the color temperature won't vary by more than 50 degrees K from one pop to another - at any power setting.
Nov 07 13 05:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Zack Zoll
Posts: 2,426
Glens Falls, New York, US


grateful photography wrote:

thanks just got the kit with 2 battery pacts etc..

I'm happy with mine.  The strongest selling point for me, and the reason why I picked them over more powerful White Lightnings at the same price point(even though I shoot mostly black and white, and never use the Speed mode) is that they can be turned down so far.  With the AB800s in a small space, I'd occasionally have to get out the ND gels.  With the Einsteins, I can just turn them down more - no reason to carry ND gels to a location, or even own them anymore.  And unlike using gels, my modeling lamp stays nice and bright.

Nov 07 13 05:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
McCarthy Photo Studio
Posts: 1
RESEDA, California, US


I own both two AB800s and 2 einstein 640s and I would definitely recommend the einstein. The 1600 are a huge amount of power and not suitable for small studios because they can't be turned low enough. Not so with the einsteins. They are a great combination of power and flexibility. You can get the low enough to work in close to your subjects or over power the sun outside
Nov 07 13 11:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,379
Orlando, Florida, US


Barely StL wrote:
I don't own any PCB products, but I've used them about three dozen times in seven studios owned by other photographers. Most of the photographers have White Lightnings, AB's and Einsteins that they've acquired over a period of years.

The largest of these studios was 80x120 feet with a 20-foot ceiling and an 80-foot cyc wall. It was designed  primarily for shooting vehicles from motorcycles to 18-wheelers. I've never used any of them at full power - although I'm sure I'd want something even more powerful if I were shooting 18-wheelers.

.

See, that just means you shoot a certain way.

I have a small home studio, about 16ft by 10ft and I sometimes shoot an Einstein at full power.  So to recommend a strobe based on HOW you shoot is misleading.  But this thread should probably die. The OP has already made his choice and purchased strobes.

Nov 08 13 09:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
YZF Jeff
Posts: 249
Statesboro, Georgia, US


My Einstein is my only 'real' light, the only time i pull out the 430 ex II is when i need a second light for fill. Once it's economical for me to buy another light it will most likely be another Einstein. There have been days where 2.5 wattseconds at f/2.8 ISO 100 or 160 was too much and I used a 86 inch shoot through and backed it far away to get the exposure I wanted. There have also been times shooting f/11 give or take and cranking it up to 320+. The point being that compared to a speedlight the Einstein is so versatile that the only drawback is weight. I can't imagine paying what a 600 ex-rt costs or even a 580 ex ii instead of getting a light this capabe - and if I was buying a speedlight for on camera ETTL, the 430 ex II and the yongnuo variants are ideal.
Nov 08 13 02:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 8,596
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada


Hank Shiffman wrote:
I had a collection of Alien Bees but replaced them with Einsteins.  The Einsteins are much more versatile, covering a power range from the minimum of an AB400 to the max of an AB1600.  They're also capable of full remote configuration if you get the CyberCommander trigger and CyberSync receivers.  The CC has a built-in light meter; you can trigger each light, get a reading and then adjust the power where you want it without touching the light.  And I like the ability to change the power from the camera (e.g. from F/8 to F/4) without having to configure each light individually.  Very convenient.

Agree mostly.
You appear to be one of 5 people in North America that has the CC down pat to where it is really handy.
AB800's are a nice saving in money.
Einsteins are about as good as you can get without spending twice as much money.
Don't listen to the haters, they will hate. Ask the owners and users, most of us will willingly tell you where the weaknesses are.

And I use mine outdoors, under controlled conditions.
If it is going to get sketchy, then cheap speedlights.
Yongnuo in salt water does not cause they same amount of cries of anguish that is caused by an Einstein. But sometimes you want that power outdoors with the Vag mini.

Nov 08 13 04:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,379
Orlando, Florida, US


Herman Surkis wrote:

Agree mostly.
You appear to be one of 5 people in North America that has the CC down pat to where it is really handy.
AB800's are a nice saving in money.
Einsteins are about as good as you can get without spending twice as much money.
Don't listen to the haters, they will hate. Ask the owners and users, most of us will willingly tell you where the weaknesses are.

And I use mine outdoors, under controlled conditions.
If it is going to get sketchy, then cheap speedlights.
Yongnuo in salt water does not cause they same amount of cries of anguish that is caused by an Einstein. But sometimes you want that power outdoors with the Vag mini.

WooHoo!  I'm in the exclusive club!  The CyberCommander is like a Wacom tablet.  It's different and weird and if you don't learn to use it, it'll just sit there on your desk.  Even if you just scribble around on it, you're really only using about 10% of its capabilities.  Same with the CC.  Once I started really using it and learning, things have become 2nd nature and I can operate it and change things quickly. 

And holy smokes is it convenient to not have to lower my boom stand to adjust a hair light anymore.

There's a learning curve that some aren't willing to invest the time into.  I'm still learning, but then again, I'm still learning Photoshop.  After 8 years.

Nov 08 13 04:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeff Cox Photography
Posts: 255
Honolulu, Hawaii, US


Most of my shooting is outdoors in the sun so I chose the AB1600 over the Einstein. The reason is for sports, sliding the lever the hitting the dump button was faster and easier that going through the menu to adjust the power. Also, my AB1600 is white so it doesn't retain heat like a black body would. With the silver BD it is bright. Models often say they can feel the heat from 6' away.

If you don't need that much power then the AB800 might be a good choice like others suggested. I just picked up the ABR800 and love that one also.
Nov 08 13 10:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Angel Portraits
Posts: 226
Lakeland, Florida, US


Most people buy the alien bees because of the cost. I have an alien bees myself but by looking at videos and specs I can say that the Einsteins have extras which are worthy of admiration. That said, if you do this for fun then and not for commercial use then you will be fine. I use my alien bees some times and I am happy with the results.
Nov 09 13 07:05 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
grateful photography
Posts: 90
Asheville, North Carolina, US


wow still going huh? well I ended up with 2 Einstein's 640s with 2 Vagabonds and 2 22' white beauty dishes with grids. with the Cyber commanders and umbrellas that I thought were to big for what I wanted then got beauty dishes
Nov 09 13 09:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 8,596
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada


Good Egg Productions wrote:

WooHoo!  I'm in the exclusive club!  The CyberCommander is like a Wacom tablet.  It's different and weird and if you don't learn to use it, it'll just sit there on your desk.  Even if you just scribble around on it, you're really only using about 10% of its capabilities.  Same with the CC.  Once I started really using it and learning, things have become 2nd nature and I can operate it and change things quickly. 

And holy smokes is it convenient to not have to lower my boom stand to adjust a hair light anymore.

There's a learning curve that some aren't willing to invest the time into.  I'm still learning, but then again, I'm still learning Photoshop.  After 8 years.

It is an exclusive club.
2 of us have CC's. Neither of us use them much.
Potential is huge, but so is the learning curve.
It could be made much more user friendly.

Ok, don't say it, need to get off my ass and really learn how to use the damn thing to its utmost.
Hell, I am still discovering things about my D700, and I was one of the earlier buyers.

Nov 09 13 10:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 8,596
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada


grateful photography wrote:
wow still going huh? well I ended up with 2 Einstein's 640s with 2 Vagabonds and 2 22' white beauty dishes with grids. with the Cyber commanders and umbrellas that I thought were to big for what I wanted then got beauty dishes

And now if you use them well you can do pretty much anything you need.

Nov 09 13 10:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,379
Orlando, Florida, US


Herman Surkis wrote:

It is an exclusive club.
2 of us have CC's. Neither of us use them much.
Potential is huge, but so is the learning curve.
It could be made much more user friendly.

Ok, don't say it, need to get off my ass and really learn how to use the damn thing to its utmost.
Hell, I am still discovering things about my D700, and I was one of the earlier buyers.

The more I use it, the more I'm thinking that the only way to make it more user friendly is to either add way more buttons, or take away a lot of features and functionality.

The only thing I wish it would do is show me the power level in terms of max power, meaning 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, etc.  It seems to only do it in terms of relative f/stop.  I'm so used to understanding my lights on the power ratios.  I'm aware that it's supposed to be about the same thing, but it never is for me.

Like I said, I'm still leaning.
However, for really critical jobs, I still use my old dumb trigger because I don't want to get somewhere and be goofing around with the thing on top of my camera rather than shooting.
One day.....

Nov 09 13 11:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Barely StL
Posts: 785
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


Good Egg Productions wrote:
See, that just means you shoot a certain way.

I have a small home studio, about 16ft by 10ft and I sometimes shoot an Einstein at full power.  So to recommend a strobe based on HOW you shoot is misleading.  But this thread should probably die. The OP has already made his choice and purchased strobes.

Just curious. What is the certain way that I shoot? And, in your opinion, what is it about that certain way that makes my experience, observations and opinions less relevant and more misleading than any other photographer's (or, for that matter, yours)?

Before responding, you might want to take a look at my primary MM portfolio, which is very different from this one.

http://www.modelmayhem.com/2475887

Nov 09 13 02:17 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Robb Mann
Posts: 10,313
Baltimore, Maryland, US


If you are starting out in strobes, Paul Buff is a good place to start. Unlike pretty much allother 'budget' strobes, Alien Bees and Einstiens have an excellent resale value if you outgrow them.

I would definitely go for the Einstiens. They are more powerful than the 800's, and they provide much better color consistancy across a range of power. The classic Alien Bees show more color temperature across the power range than I care to deal with in post.

Neither is really a bad choice however, if money is an issue.
Nov 09 13 02:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,379
Orlando, Florida, US


Barely StL wrote:
Just curious. What is the certain way that I shoot? And, in your opinion, what is it about that certain way that makes my experience, observations and opinions less relevant and more misleading than any other photographer's (or, for that matter, yours)?

Before responding, you might want to take a look at my primary MM portfolio, which is very different from this one.

http://www.modelmayhem.com/2475887

Back down.  What I said was in no way an insult and I purposely didn't , and still haven't, looked at your portfolios when I made that statement.

But if you have never used an AlienBee800 or Einstein at full power, then you shoot a certain way.  Meaning, you don't ever shoot at f/16 or f/22 indoors with the strobe across the room.  I simply do.

The way you shoot and your opinions are NOT less relevant or more misleading than any other's.  All I'm saying is that you shouldn't make a recommendation on a strobe based on things like "I've never used one at full power".

Just because you haven't ever used one at full power doesn't mean that the OP wouldn't.  I was giving an example of someone who does sometimes use an Einstein at full 640Ws in a 16x12ft studio.  And I have certainly used it at full power outside.

So really.... I wasn't being negative about how you shoot.  I don't actually even know how you shoot except for the information that you've provided about using an 80-foot cyc wall and not using a strobe at full power.  If I had access to an 80-foot cyc wall, I'd be shooting at full power all day long.

That's all I was saying.

Nov 09 13 09:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Joey B Photography
Posts: 235
Syracuse, New York, US


Einsteins. You won't regret it. I love mine. You can always resell them at a great price if you ever want to switch to another brand.
Nov 09 13 09:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Barely StL
Posts: 785
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


Barely StL wrote:
Just curious. What is the certain way that I shoot? And, in your opinion, what is it about that certain way that makes my experience, observations and opinions less relevant and more misleading than any other photographer's (or, for that matter, yours)?

Before responding, you might want to take a look at my primary MM portfolio, which is very different from this one.

http://www.modelmayhem.com/2475887
Good Egg Productions wrote:
Back down.  What I said was in no way an insult and I purposely didn't , and still haven't, looked at your portfolios when I made that statement.

But if you have never used an AlienBee800 or Einstein at full power, then you shoot a certain way.  Meaning, you don't ever shoot at f/16 or f/22 indoors with the strobe across the room.  I simply do.

The way you shoot and your opinions are NOT less relevant or more misleading than any other's.  All I'm saying is that you shouldn't make a recommendation on a strobe based on things like "I've never used one at full power".

Just because you haven't ever used one at full power doesn't mean that the OP wouldn't.  I was giving an example of someone who does sometimes use an Einstein at full 640Ws in a 16x12ft studio.  And I have certainly used it at full power outside.

So really.... I wasn't being negative about how you shoot.  I don't actually even know how you shoot except for the information that you've provided about using an 80-foot cyc wall and not using a strobe at full power.  If I had access to an 80-foot cyc wall, I'd be shooting at full power all day long.

That's all I was saying.

Well basically you’re saying that I shouldn’t make any suggestions based on my frame of reference. So the only four logical extensions of that are that a) I should suggest that he do something other than my own experience indicates, b) I should recommend that he base his decision on someone else’s experience (yours, perhaps?), c) I should just sit back and let you tell the OP what to do, or d) I should recommend that he get at least 1000 watt/seconds and lots of ND filters, and at least one of every modifier on the market, so he’ll be ready for anything.

As if the OP can’t look at portfolios and decide whether anyone’s suggestions are relevant based on how much someone’s portfolio looks like what he wants to shoot.

And you can substitute just about anyone in this thread (who doesn’t shoot the way you do) for “I”.

Should I assume that the OP has access to an 80-foot cyc wall? His post would seem to indicate otherwise. (I don’t either, now. The studio was sold over a year ago and is now a dance school – with no cyc wall).

Do you see any other logical conclusion?

Nov 10 13 01:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,379
Orlando, Florida, US


StL, I'll point out the fact that we both recommended to the OP that he get Einsteins. And that's exactly what he got.

The argument we're having is pointless and moot.
Nov 10 13 01:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Peters Fotografie
Posts: 1,058
Tucson, Arizona, US


the Einsteins
and even though the Einsteins are technically digital AB1600's, the power output is not perfectly equal to each other.

fyi- 2 800's do not in any way equal one 1600

the reasons you use a 1600 over a 2/ 800's are many
1. the recycle time of a 1600 (or Einstein) at 1/2 power is far faster
than an 800 at full power
(a white lighting 3200 at 1/4 power recycle is almost instantaneous)
2.  speaking for myself, I want to shoot fashion at f13 to f/18+
with 7' umbrellas at 12' away/ iso 160
this is not happening with 800's.....

I do use the Einsteins outdoors all the time
but think of the 1600 as much more durable, less fragile ....
Nov 10 13 02:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Barely StL
Posts: 785
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


Good Egg Productions wrote:
StL, I'll point out the fact that we both recommended to the OP that he get Einsteins. And that's exactly what he got.

The argument we're having is pointless and moot.

It was pointless and moot when you started it by suggesting that I'm not qualified to participate in this thread.

Nov 10 13 02:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
I M N Photography
Posts: 2,330
New York, New York, US


grateful photography wrote:
Einstein™ E640 Flash Unit or
AlienBees™ B1600 Flash Unit

Im looking for a 2 strobe setup that would be good for studio or location shoots

Allso would be good with battery pacts etc.. please let me know what you all think

What is your budget? There are other options in the market.
Your studio equipment need not be the same equipment you haul around the country.

Personally, the E640 Flash Unit would be my choice, if my budget required that I use the same equipment indoors and on location.

Nov 10 13 02:12 am  Link  Quote 
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