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first123
Photographer
MMR Digital
Posts: 1,680
Doylestown, Pennsylvania, US


udor wrote:

... after all, she is the Rosa Parks of fashion... wink

???

No soapbox, where are there...

Mar 07 14 05:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 22,012
New York, New York, US


udor wrote:
... after all, she is the Rosa Parks of fashion... wink
MMR Digital wrote:
???

No soapbox, where are there...

In her response to JadedRed about her struggle in fashion:

marissa charles wrote:
If Rosa Parks accepted what she thought was wrong........

Mar 07 14 06:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Another Italian Guy
Posts: 3,279
Bath, England, United Kingdom


udor wrote:

... after all, she is the Rosa Parks of fashion... wink

She's with Elite in Miami, right?

Swimwear division....

Mar 07 14 06:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 22,012
New York, New York, US


udor wrote:
... after all, she is the Rosa Parks of fashion... wink
Another Italian Guy wrote:
She's with Elite in Miami, right?

Swimwear division....

No, sorry Stefano... you are almost right.

You are mixing her up with Rosa Parkinson*, a model who at 5'6" shakes up the runway like no other! big_smile





* Sorry for anybody this might offend..., my excuse is that I am very uncouth from time to time... big_smile

Mar 07 14 06:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,746
London, England, United Kingdom


Evie Wolfe wrote:
If I were a designer, I'd book some street or contemporary dancers, so they could do something really cool and interesting for their end of runway posing!

See this is where a lot of amateur shows go wrong!

A fashion show is for a designer to get maximum publicity and in front of as many buyers (actual buyers to put in their shop not the public) as possible. Not to entertain the crowd for 15 minutes.

At the end of the runway is where the designer gets their last chance for the all important publicity shot that will be seen by many more people than those in the room that day, the last thing they want is blurry images of some idiot flapping their arms about so you can't see the garment.

If your fortunate to have a long runway, then there is no need for posing and the models get out the way so the next picture can be taken.

A real catwalk show is about the clothes NOT the model.
Amateur shows are about entertaining the crowd to justify an entry ticket price or because fashion shows are cheap entertainment and "kool". Np one is there to actually buy or distribute anything

Mar 08 14 01:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 26,937
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


Darren Brade wrote:

See this is where a lot of amateur shows go wrong!

A fashion show is for a designer to get maximum publicity and in front of as many buyers (actual buyers to put in their shop not the public) as possible. Not to entertain the crowd for 15 minutes.

At the end of the runway is where the designer gets their last chance for the all important publicity shot that will be seen by many more people than those in the room that day, the last thing they want is blurry images of some idiot flapping their arms about so you can't see the garment.

If your fortunate to have a long runway, then there is no need for posing and the models get out the way so the next picture can be taken.

A real catwalk show is about the clothes NOT the model.
Amateur shows are about entertaining the crowd to justify an entry ticket price or because fashion shows are cheap entertainment and "kool". Np one is there to actually buy or distribute anything

exactly

real fashion shows are about buyers and media

not selling tickets to the general public

Mar 08 14 11:09 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Nyssa Elle
Posts: 3
New York, New York, US


Don't worry....be happy smile lol
Mar 09 14 06:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Philipe
Posts: 5,207
Pomona, California, US


K I C K H A M wrote:
When I've worked with shorter models on legitimate jobs, they tend to be a little better at modeling than the average agency stat girl. Why? Not because they are short, that has nothing to do with the ability. It's that without the heightened ability-- some natural, some learned-- they would have never been hired in the first place.
Taller or ideal-stat girls get a little more leeway.

So far as your tall unable to walk girls... well, I've walked very few legitimate shows where height didn't matter. The girls who fit the requirements and are experienced (and good) probably aren't walking open-height shows.

This has not been my experience at all.
Agency models that are tall have more mobility and pose better.
Yes they have more leeway which is good and better..

I will say runway models don't always make the best print models but those that do and did were called super models in the 90's... Hitting home runs in both divisions.

Mar 09 14 06:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Star
Posts: 17,914
Los Angeles, California, US


marissa charles wrote:
I am NOT  agency standard runway model, but I do walk for many independent shows. I have walked regularly with tall as well as shorter, meaning 5'8 and under. What I see is that many of the standard runway girls are not abled to walk well or carry the clothes well. The shorter girls tend to be overall better walkers and look way better in the clothing. The  reason by Designers why they choose Tall is because they  say the clothes fit better. Not the case. I could include the fact that Black models are being used less and less also because the Designers think that the clothes won't suit them and in reality, I do find in many cases, the black models look better in the collections.
Contentious issue, but Fashion people come up with the lamest excuses.

I am bored with this thread and i have only read one post. All I can say is you are mostly wrong. Basically top runway models are 200-500 women in a world population of 7 billion. The odds of being a top runway model are 1 in about 100,000,040. The ability to choose from so much talent allows designers to hire only the best of the best of the best. You have a better chance of working on television than being in a top designer's runway show.

Mar 09 14 11:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Babydoll Beth
Posts: 16
Spartanburg, South Carolina, US


I don't normally post in these things, but I have to on this one..

I'm 5'2", and I love walking a runway more than photo shoots. To me, there's nothing like it. There are short and taller models who walk rather well,  but at the same time it's not about the model in most cases. The designer picks the models based on their designs and target market. And as far as "agency standards" are concerned, that is so off course anymore because agencies are beginning to sign models who are all shapes, sizes, and ages!

By the way: I'm not agency represented, either. I wouldn't sign with an agency for all the money in the world.

My point is this: We're all artists, and we all have our own way of thinking and doing things. Not a bad thing, that's why they call it art.:-)

That's my personal opinion. Take it for what it's worth. Either way, I care not.:-)
Mar 10 14 10:56 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fleming Design
Posts: 1,070
Hartford, Connecticut, US


Babydoll Beth wrote:
I don't normally post in these things, but I have to on this one..

I'm 5'2", and I love walking a runway more than photo shoots. To me, there's nothing like it. There are short and taller models who walk rather well,  but at the same time it's not about the model in most cases. The designer picks the models based on their designs and target market. And as far as "agency standards" are concerned, that is so off course anymore because agencies are beginning to sign models who are all shapes, sizes, and ages!

By the way: I'm not agency represented, either. I wouldn't sign with an agency for all the money in the world...

In my case, I can probably play pick up basketball at any YMCA in the whole country.  So I wouldn't sign with an NBA team for all the money in the world.

Yea Right!

Mar 10 14 04:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 22,012
New York, New York, US


Babydoll Beth wrote:
I'm 5'2", and I love walking a runway more than photo shoots. To me, there's nothing like it.

And as far as "agency standards" are concerned, that is so off course anymore because agencies are beginning to sign models who are all shapes, sizes, and ages!

My point is this: We're all artists, and we all have our own way of thinking and doing things. Not a bad thing, that's why they call it art.:-)

Hi, check out my earlier post with links, please.

The fashion industry is about business, and not about opinions. Well... actually, a lot of opinions... just not about model's heights on the runway...

I am happy for you that "fashion agencies" in your town are "signing" anybody and they are doing major runway shows.

My town is still lagging behind your progressive leader in fashion. sad   Even worse, for last month's fashion week, designers were rejecting many 5'9" girls as too short, booking girls 5'10" and up, as if they didn't get the message about your neck of the woods... such ignoramuses!     facepalm

Btw., my "opinion" is based on 15 years of shooting runway and being involved in production as well.  smile

Mar 10 14 07:01 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


Neil Peters Fotografie wrote:
I don't always explain myself perfectly, forgive me for that. 
it doesn't matter what row it is, you're going to see the dress better on a taller model, from any row.  if the walkway is not elevated, you can't see the dress on a short model from row 3.

I was comparing body movement of gymnast to runway models, not any other athlete, or the success of any type of sport.  there are no tall gymnast, male or female, period.  because they cannot flex.  the taller humans become, the less movement is possible. 

I was not comparing beauty pageant looks to runway models.  more often than not, the tallest wins a pageant, probably because of their more commanding presence.  and many many pageant contestants also do runway, it is very common.

1. no, still no. Maybe you'll see a fraction more from the head and shoulders while sitting in row 24 with 23 rows of people in front of you), but you won't "see the dress better on a tall model". Unless she is 12 inches taller and towering out above the crowd immensely (also known as giants). Which is exactly why runways with a lot of audience and rows to sit in, have seats that go upwards the further you sit.

http://www.teampeterstigter.com/uploads/2012/07/03_AM_AFWS13_388.jpg

2. tall people can flex. come on. I was a competitive gymnast for years, and yes I'm way too tall and that would have certainly been a problem if I would have liked to take it further, but for other reasons. Not because "the taller humans become, the less movement is possible".

Here are a couple of male and female succesful gymnasts and their height:
Sarie Morrison 5'9
Russell czeschin 6'3
Jon-michael chimbeau 6'3

So while I agree with the general notion that gymnasts are short, that doesn't mean that "the taller humans become, the less movement is possible", it also doesn't mean there are "no succesful tall gymnasts, male or female, period". And even if tall people were "stiff" in gymnastics (which isn't true, take tall dancers for instance, but let's just go there for a second), that still has no relevance to how they move in different sports, or on a runway.


3. A lot of pageant contestants might do commercial runway or lingerie runway at their local mall in the city, minor things. Or other shows. I'm sure some go further than that, especially with competitions at a higher level... but they don't walk in fashionweeks or for major designers.

http://www.statisticbrain.com/miss-amer … tatistics/
average height of miss america pageant winners: 5'6. Which may be taller than the american female average (that's like 5'3 or 5'4 or something, right?) but nowhere near model height. Ofcourse, I'm open to knowing more about beautypageant contestants who are succesful in fashion shows, if there are any.

you are, ofcourse, entitled to your opinion, but some facts are what they are.

Mar 11 14 12:33 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 22,012
New York, New York, US


Anna Adrielle wrote:
Which is exactly why runways with a lot of audience and rows to sit in, have seats that go upwards the further you sit.

http://www.teampeterstigter.com/uploads … 13_388.jpg

Yup!

See my Marc Jacobs shot below!

People also forget a point of perspective... the further away they are from the actual runway, even if they can "see"... the smaller the model appears to be... so, a tall model can just be seen from very far away.

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t31/1085142_10151529514660458_2080635039_o.jpg

Mar 11 14 03:26 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


udor wrote:
Yup!

See my Marc Jacobs shot below!

People also forget a point of perspective... the further away they are from the actual runway, even if they can "see"... the smaller the model appears to be... so, a tall model can just be seen from very far away.

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t31/1085142_10151529514660458_2080635039_o.jpg

cool shot smile

look, I'm not saying that, from row 25, a tall model won't be a teeny tiny bit more visible, compared to someone a couple inches shorter... but really, that difference is so small and it's such a non-important reason that I always eyeroll whenever I see "so people in the back of the room can also see the clothes" argument pop up in a discussion on why models are tall. That's not why models are tall.

people also forget that that runway show is not about seeing the clothes as good as possible. It's to present the collection, and to reflect the general mood of the collection, and to get people to notice you as a brand. to look at the clothes in great detail upclose and personal, there are showrooms afterwards. buyers go to those showrooms afterwards. magazine editors also.

and there are decent runwaypictures (taking a phone pic from the runway is cool and great and all, especially if you're a blogger for that "hey look I was here" or "oh that look seems cool, gotta remember that"... but it's not what gets published in vogue) available pretty much immediately afterwards, so there is no *need* that everyone in the room has the best vision possible. as if fashion brands rely on 100% visibility to sell their clothes...

if they wanted to do a show that was 100% about showing the clothes as clearly as possible, they'd line up models in a wearhouse somewhere, put them on little pedestals and have visitors walk by them (and yes, some designers do that, but generally that's not what shows look like).

sorry, long rant haha. i'm so passionated about this...

Mar 11 14 03:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 22,012
New York, New York, US


Anna Adrielle wrote:
if they wanted to do a show that was 100% about showing the clothes as clearly as possible, they'd line up models in a wearhouse somewhere, put them on little pedestals and have visitors walk by them (and yes, some designers do that, but generally that's not what shows look like).

sorry, long rant haha. i'm so passionated about this...

It's called a presentation and it is considered not as "glamorous" as a runway show and the disadvantage is that it won't show the flow of the garments as does a walk!

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1/1975276_10151937554640458_823076669_n.jpg

Mar 11 14 04:11 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


udor wrote:
It's called a presentation and it is considered not as "glamorous" as a runway show and the disadvantage is that it won't show the flow of the garments as does a walk!

yeah I've done a few of those. no major brands though, obviously. definitely less fun than runway smile

vacuumpacking your models also kind of makes it difficult to watch the clothes flow
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/05/article-2573623-1C09A13F00000578-576_470x687.jpg

I bet this works great with short models though!

Mar 11 14 04:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 22,012
New York, New York, US


Anna Adrielle wrote:

yeah I've done a few of those. no major brands though, obviously. definitely less fun than runway smile

vacuumpacking your models also kind of makes it difficult to watch the clothes flow
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/05/article-2573623-1C09A13F00000578-576_470x687.jpg

I bet this works great with short models though!

Hahahaa... that's GREAT!!! big_smile

Mar 11 14 05:21 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


udor wrote:

Hahahaa... that's GREAT!!! big_smile

iris Van Herpen smile. Dutch designer, closed paris fashion week this season, and she's officially on the list as a guestmember of haute couture designers of the Parisian Chambre Syndicale de la Haute Couture. Most of her work isn't like this though, her designs are often superbeautiful, even though they're technologically quite "out there" (she uses 3d printing, among other things). I'm sure you know her work smile

http://www.google.be/search?q=iris+van+ … 74&bih=780

Mar 11 14 08:17 am  Link  Quote 
Model
K I C K H A M
Posts: 14,610
Los Angeles, California, US


Philipe wrote:

This has not been my experience at all.
Agency models that are tall have more mobility and pose better.
Yes they have more leeway which is good and better..

I will say runway models don't always make the best print models but those that do and did were called super models in the 90's... Hitting home runs in both divisions.

I'm not sure what "experience" you're referring to.

I stated that the ops observations about agency stat girls not walking as well probably had more to do with the events than agency stat girls.

Mar 11 14 11:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
K I C K H A M
Posts: 14,610
Los Angeles, California, US


Philipe wrote:

This has not been my experience at all.
Agency models that are tall have more mobility and pose better.
Yes they have more leeway which is good and better..

I will say runway models don't always make the best print models but those that do and did were called super models in the 90's... Hitting home runs in both divisions.

Oh, I see what you're referring to now. Let me try again..

On legitimate, agency packed runway shows, when I see girls shorter than I am (5.8), they are spectacular. Not BECAUSE they are short, but because if they weren't extraordinary, they would not have been deemed suitable exceptions to the rules of runway.

Mar 11 14 11:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Olivia Ashton
Posts: 226
Mount Dora, Florida, US


The Something Guy wrote:
5' 8" + 4" heels is a good height.


What was the No 1 black model agency in the UK moved it's whole business to Africa where it's become very successful unlike the UK.

I keep in contact with them through FB and were an agency I used to test quiet regularly with alas no more.

The thing is that the 5'11 models are also wearing the 5 inch heels.  Heck at 5'10 I feel short at runway castings.

Mar 14 14 08:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Mr. Tengu
Posts: 296
New York, New York, US


Olivia Ashton wrote:

The thing is that the 5'11 models are also wearing the 5 inch heels.  Heck at 5'10 I feel short at runway castings.

Yup!

That's often the argument of shorter models... "Yeah, but in heels..." forgetting that the 5'11" model also wears 4 inch heels... big_smile

Mar 15 14 12:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
WIP
Posts: 15,367
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom


5'11" far to short to be a runway model I reckon min height should be 6' 7"+.
Mar 19 14 05:46 am  Link  Quote 
Model
- Aina -
Posts: 734
Redlands, California, US


Sandra Vixen wrote:
I beg to differ, shorter people do not "walk better".

Height is really not an issue of how well you walk. How well you walk is a combination of your body proportions, muscle build, joint flexibility, bone lengths, center of gravity, and your kinesthetic locomotion (walking) skills.

The last being the most overlooked and under-trained.

I think the reason that you observe taller models not walking well, is that maybe they are new (newbies), they got in really easily because they were tall and got picked. But they lack training and experience.

I see a lot of posters of tall runway models about to fall over or break a bone because they can barely walk (as if they were 2 month olds). I mean, it was shocking.

Shorter models may have worked harder all their lives and had better movement training, I recently worked on a study that showed shorter children (girls) are 30-40 fold (3000%-4000%) more likely to be encouraged into physical activity and stay with it than compared to taller children (n > 900).

But that does not mean taller girls are not physically capable of great movement, for example, I'm from Asia and I'm 5'10". I dance ballet, and en pointe (note that the typically desired western dancer is around 5'0").

+1

Mar 19 14 04:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
- Aina -
Posts: 734
Redlands, California, US


The Something Guy wrote:
5'11" far to short to be a runway model I reckon min height should be 6' 7"+.

I second this notion.

Mar 19 14 04:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 8,435
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada


Danish delight wrote:
clothes looks better on tall skinny models...

Im not one.... dont want to be one...

But thats the facts.

Certain clothes.

Not all by any stretch of the imagination.

" That size 0 dress on the 6'5" model looks gorgeous. Now can you make me 30,000, in ranges from size 5-12, and for 5'2"-5'9" ".

Mar 21 14 01:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 22,012
New York, New York, US


Herman Surkis wrote:
" That size 0 dress on the 6'5" model looks gorgeous. Now can you make me 30,000, in ranges from size 5-12, and for 5'2"-5'9" ".

This is exactly how industry events, such as NYFW work...

First the single existing garment is shown on the 5'10" model on the runway, the buyer makes notes on the run-of-the-show sheet that they all have and pick the dresses they want to see again in the designer's showroom days after fashion week.

Then they look at them again, and ask for certain changes and then order large quantities of different sizes for their department stores.


True story!       smile

Mar 21 14 07:27 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Annoula D
Posts: 87
Cliffside Park, New Jersey, US


It honestly depends on the people putting on the production and the designers themselves. I am 5'10'', but have been in fashion shows with girls are at the 5'6''/5'7'' height. Personally, Runway looks better with taller models. Not every garment is going to fit a tall model well, but it's also about body proportion. IF there is a model who is much shorter and fits the clothes better, and walks better than a taller model, the designer can take a chance and pick the shorter model over the taller one. In the end, you never know who the client will pick.
Apr 16 14 06:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kyzn
Posts: 28
London, England, United Kingdom


This topic has been dried out time and time again, discussing it on the forums isn't going to create a change however, would be nice to see one 5'5 model in LFW even if they did it for a joke ha.
Apr 20 14 10:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,746
London, England, United Kingdom


Kyzn wrote:
This topic has been dried out time and time again, discussing it on the forums isn't going to create a change however, would be nice to see one 5'5 model in LFW even if they did it for a joke ha.

It does happen at LFW, during the run-throughs. Someone will stand in to keep the timing while the last models are getting ready (probably late arriving), yes it does look funny, especially if everyone else is in heels. big_smile

Apr 21 14 05:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
L J K
Posts: 267
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


1. Model height requirements aren't a human rights issue....
2. OP, you're agency standard and by the looks of it, you have steady jobs coming in. As a 5'4" model who would not be looked at twice by a reputable agency, I should ask, why not start an ADDITIONAL crusade for shortER models who won't even be signed?

My point is that this is all rather ridiculous.

udor wrote:
It is just sad that some things never change... so many "models" think that modeling, being signed and doing runway is a right and not a privilege!

And +1 to this.

Apr 22 14 05:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Image K
Posts: 23,365
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


L J K wrote:
1. Model height requirements aren't a human rights issue....

Truth

Apr 23 14 02:09 pm  Link  Quote 
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