Forums > Photography Talk > CC Licensing may be hurting Kelby/NAPP

Photographer

Michael Fryd

Posts: 5231

Miami Beach, Florida, US

I just got an interesting call from Kelby Training (the new home of the National Association of Photoshop Professionals).  It seems my membership is up and they want me to renew.

I told her I purposely let my membership lapse, as they focus on the latest and greatest versions, and I don't see myself upgrading past CS6.  Since I am sticking with CS6, and they are onto to CC, there's no need for me to be a member.

The interesting point is that although it is mid morning on the East coast, she commented that she had already heard the same sentiment from others today.

I suspect that this means the third party training companies are losing business from Adobe's new licensing policies.

Furthermore, the people who stick with CS6 are learning that they don't really need the latest version to run a profitable business.  The longer Adobe waits before changing their licensing policy, the harder it will be to win these customers back.

It now seems obvious to me how to get Adobe to change their licensing policies.  All that is needed is for companies like Kelby to start offering and promoting training on how to get the most from CS6, and how you don't really need to upgrade.

Adobe is running a business.  If profits go down from reduced sales, they will change their policies.

Apr 23 14 08:46 am Link

Photographer

Vision Images by Jake

Posts: 595

Stockton, California, US

Michael Fryd wrote:
I just got an interesting call from Kelby Training (the new home of the National Association of Photoshop Professionals).  It seems my membership is up and they want me to renew.

I told her I purposely let my membership lapse, as they focus on the latest and greatest versions, and I don't see myself upgrading past CS6.  Since I am sticking with CS6, and they are onto to CC, there's no need for me to be a member.

The interesting point is that although it is mid morning on the East coast, she commented that she had already heard the same sentiment from others today.

I suspect that this means the third party training companies are losing business from Adobe's new licensing policies.

Furthermore, the people who stick with CS6 are learning that they don't really need the latest version to run a profitable business.  The longer Adobe waits before changing their licensing policy, the harder it will be to win these customers back.

It now seems obvious to me how to get Adobe to change their licensing policies.  All that is needed is for companies like Kelby to start offering and promoting training on how to get the most from CS6, and how you don't really need to upgrade.

Adobe is running a business.  If profits go down from reduced sales, they will change their policies.

Now this is interesting info.  It is gonna be great sitting on the side lines watching this play out.  I like you, am satisfied with CS6.  I actually have the suite.  I have No intentions of switching to any cloud base application..... No Thank You!

Jake

Apr 23 14 09:40 am Link

Photographer

Jim Lafferty

Posts: 2125

Brooklyn, New York, US

Here's to hoping you're right.

Apr 23 14 09:40 am Link

Photographer

David Kirk

Posts: 4852

Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Don't forget that those who do have Adobe Creative Cloud may opt for more training more often given that they will get updates and new features automatically as part of their subscription whereas in the past they may have waited for a few releases before upgrading.

My guess is that Kelby will benefit because there will be two camps looking for training - those on the CS6 version and those on the latest CC version.

Apr 23 14 10:12 am Link

Photographer

FullMetalPhotographer

Posts: 2797

Fresno, California, US

David Kirk wrote:
Don't forget that those who do have Adobe Creative Cloud may opt for more training more often given that they will get updates and new features automatically as part of their subscription whereas in the past they may have waited for a few releases before upgrading.

My guess is that Kelby will benefit because there will be two camps looking for training - those on the CS6 version and those on the latest CC version.

Most likely no great effect Kelby because of new users.

Long term don't expect dramatic changes in CC like the different versions of CS. There is no incentive with to do major changes with CC. Adobe is no longer concerned about being better than previous version they have no reason for dramatic improvements now, especially with no competition. I suspect the R&D budget will get smaller and smaller.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7317/9616151776_cf4063294c.jpg
monty-python-foot Adsobe by FullMetalPhotographer, on Flickr

Apr 23 14 11:09 am Link

Clothing Designer

GRMACK

Posts: 5436

Bakersfield, California, US

Interesting post.

Photoshop hasn't been that evolutionary in their updates, away from the RAW conversion.  Some still use old PS2 before the CS versions too and feel no need to update.

Stockholders will have the final say.  No doubt subscription prices will jump as they always do with subscription-based contractual services, and they will rely on that.  Users not so much, other than those that try and offer support for a price like Kelby.  I could see stockholders wanting a "better price" from the CEO and moving Adobe from the USA to a cheaper country to run within too.

Somehow I see this PS & LR evolution moving to the cells and tablets and away from computers like desktops and laptops.  How Adobe addresses that and gets people into paying monthly or more for what most feel as "free apps" might be another matter.

Even Microsoft seems to be chasing the cells by buying up Nokia (Say "bye-bye" to the Symbia OS!).  Does look like Windows 8 is trying to sync with the Windows Mobile and probably will become the default Nokia OS.  Sort of a Late-to-Apple-Player, but seems they do have an idea where this is all heading (No more desktops?).

Apr 23 14 11:15 am Link

Photographer

American Glamour

Posts: 38813

Detroit, Michigan, US

I have no idea if this will change anything, but it is interesting to hear.

Apr 23 14 11:19 am Link

Photographer

WCR3

Posts: 1413

Houston, Texas, US

I think part of the reason Adobe has gone to the cloud with CC is to smooth out revenue streams. With a subscription-based service, they have income every month from everyone who uses the Creative Cloud.

Before the subscription service, they would have to make significant changes to come up with a "new product" that people would be willing to pay for, and the revenue stream would be lumpy. That makes business planning difficult and stockholders cranky.

Companies in the legal profession -- Westlaw and Lexis/Nexis, for example -- have been doing this for years, in fact in the case of Westlaw, even the printed law books were subscription-based.

Adobe's subscription service may be irritating to some users. For others like me, who as a hobbyist rather than working pro photographer never could afford the full Photoshop CS program, paying $10 a month is a pretty good deal.

Apr 23 14 11:48 am Link

Photographer

Dan OMell

Posts: 1415

Charlotte, North Carolina, US

WCR3 wrote:
Adobe's subscription service may be irritating to some users. For others like me, who as a hobbyist rather than working pro photographer never could afford the full Photoshop CS program, paying $10 a month is a pretty good deal.

well, for the occasional users it could not be savvy to invest their time and efforts into their own dependency and something based on any 3d party subscription service.
even with a cable company, for example. rarely could you see the very happy customers for long. never a company keeps the prices staying the same, albeit watching TV doesn't require any skills. using photoshop requires some, and it's addictive

Apr 23 14 11:56 am Link

Photographer

AJ_In_Atlanta

Posts: 13053

Atlanta, Georgia, US

WCR3 wrote:
I think part of the reason Adobe has gone to the cloud with CC is to smooth out revenue streams. With a subscription-based service, they have income every month from everyone who uses the Creative Cloud.

Before the subscription service, they would have to make significant changes to come up with a "new product" that people would be willing to pay for, and the revenue stream would be lumpy. That makes business planning difficult and stockholders cranky.

Companies in the legal profession -- Westlaw and Lexis/Nexis, for example -- have been doing this for years, in fact in the case of Westlaw, even the printed law books were subscription-based.

Adobe's subscription service may be irritating to some users. For others like me, who as a hobbyist rather than working pro photographer never could afford the full Photoshop CS program, paying $10 a month is a pretty good deal.

That sounds like a nice way of putting it, but Adobe has captured the majority of its market and is looking for ways to get more money out of its current base.  I suspect the "savings" on CC vs outright buying will disappear once nobody remembers what it was like to own software; or at least Adobe is hoping people forget.

It's no different than the auto industry who has managed to convince people that they will always have a car payment and no buy cars based on the monthly costs.  I have seen many people overpay for cars based on monthly payments.

As a freelancer my own revenue stream is erratic and I need to minimize monthly obligations, it's a lifestyle change but it works for many

Apr 23 14 11:57 am Link

Photographer

Fred Greissing

Posts: 6427

Los Angeles, California, US

WCR3 wrote:
Adobe's subscription service may be irritating to some users. For others like me, who as a hobbyist rather than working pro photographer never could afford the full Photoshop CS program, paying $10 a month is a pretty good deal.

For most pro photographers $10 a month is very easy to write off. It can also be written off easier than a purchase as it's like a rent.

Apr 23 14 12:03 pm Link

Photographer

NothingIsRealButTheGirl

Posts: 35726

Los Angeles, California, US

I'd like to see Photoshop one-up Corel Painter.

I'd also like it to be more node-tree based instead of layer based

Apr 23 14 12:03 pm Link

Photographer

AJ_In_Atlanta

Posts: 13053

Atlanta, Georgia, US

Fred Greissing wrote:

For most pro photographers $10 a month is very easy to write off. It can also be written off easier than a purchase as it's like a rent.

Not so, capital expense can be handled in a number of ways that simple operating expenses cannot.

Apr 23 14 12:09 pm Link

Photographer

Rowen

Posts: 630

Gibsonia, Pennsylvania, US

Whether you like the Cloud concept or not, it's what is happening in the world of software - and not only with Adobe. This is the future. Right now the differences between CS6 and CC are relatively minor. This will not be the case in the coming years.

If you think Adobe is losing money with the CC concept, think again. Their subscriptions are way up compared to purchasers of physical releases and they have eliminated tons of production costs for physical releases (no need for paper, ink, packaging, discs, etc).

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a super advocate of the Cloud. I've been a subscriber to the entire CC package since last summer. Premiere hasn't worked on my machine for three months (it crashes after the splash screen loads). PS has several bugs in it, especially with plug-ins like Topaz. Illustrator is also unstable at times.Etc. But these will be worked out and things will move forward. I've been a software engineer for nearly 30 years and I saw this concept coming years ago.

Such is life in a technological world.

-Ro

Apr 23 14 12:09 pm Link

Clothing Designer

GRMACK

Posts: 5436

Bakersfield, California, US

AJScalzitti wrote:
.....  I have seen many people overpay for cars based on monthly payments.

I know two people who pay $650/mo. for their cell phone bills (Which I think is absurd, imho.), but they are used to it and shrug it off as "It's the new business model.  Get used to it."

Paying as much for a cell phone's monthly bill while locked in a two-year contract does seem odd to me over their car payments which might be less.  To them, it's normal.

"Marketing Lemmings" hold true from the Business-101 classes I guess.  Gotta keep them stockholders happy.

Fwiw, I had Satellite TV.  Bills always went up.  Started at $19/mo. and shot up to $100/mo. where I bailed.  Now they are back down to $19/mo. "Please come back!" offers.  In the meantime, I discovered maybe 30 over-the-air HD TV channels in my ChannelMaster DVR box that does all of what satellite did for free in recording.  Sort of a free TIVO if you will.

Apr 23 14 12:12 pm Link

Photographer

NothingIsRealButTheGirl

Posts: 35726

Los Angeles, California, US

Rowen wrote:
Whether you like the Cloud concept or not, it's what is happening in the world of software - and not only with Adobe. This is the future.

Can you explain this concept? Because right now I don't think the adobe cloud stuff is all that cloudy. It just checks in once a month.

Apr 23 14 12:15 pm Link

Photographer

pdxROCKpix

Posts: 119

Hillsboro, Oregon, US

Kelby is also giving the hard sell to existing subscribers because they have raised their prices now that they are the new "Kelbyone".

If you are an existing subscriber you can keep your membership current for the old rate of $99 a year. If you let your subscription laps and then want to re-join you have to pay the new rate of $249 a year.

As far as all the complaining about Adobe and the cloud model you are all just wasting your time. It is the future of software distribution, like it or not, and it is already working for them. The few vocal holdouts are not going to make them switch back.

Apr 23 14 12:19 pm Link

Photographer

Guss W

Posts: 10964

Clearwater, Florida, US

Eventually your old copy will be so obsolete you'll get with the program.

Apr 23 14 12:29 pm Link

Photographer

FullMetalPhotographer

Posts: 2797

Fresno, California, US

pdxROCKpix wrote:
Kelby is also giving the hard sell to existing subscribers because they have raised their prices now that they are the new "Kelbyone".

If you are an existing subscriber you can keep your membership current for the old rate of $99 a year. If you let your subscription laps and then want to re-join you have to pay the new rate of $249 a year.

As far as all the complaining about Adobe and the cloud model you are all just wasting your time. It is the future of software distribution, like it or not, and it is already working for them. The few vocal holdouts are not going to make them switch back.

My view on this is simple are they going to change back. no. Does that mean I will go quietly into the night, no. My view is make it as painful as possible for them as individuals so they might hesitate the next time.

I have always believed in the MAD concept. wink http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction

At the very least it is better lose while standing than on your knees.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5510/11599960575_650d0ce9ff_z.jpgAdobeDalek by FullMetalPhotographer, on Flickr

Apr 23 14 02:41 pm Link

Photographer

LA StarShooter

Posts: 2730

Los Angeles, California, US

Fred Greissing wrote:

For most pro photographers $10 a month is very easy to write off. It can also be written off easier than a purchase as it's like a rent.

Did you do bookkeeping at high school? Software can be depreciated. It's an asset. It loses value as business assets tend to do. Legitimate depreciation helps a lot. I presume you depreciate your photography equipment and your office setup?

Apr 23 14 02:47 pm Link

Photographer

The Grand Artist

Posts: 468

Fort Worth, Texas, US

This is why FOSS rules

Apr 23 14 03:22 pm Link

Photographer

Hi_Spade Photography

Posts: 927

Florence, South Carolina, US

I'll just stick with CS-5. It does all I need and probably will ever need.

Apr 23 14 03:43 pm Link

Photographer

Fred Greissing

Posts: 6427

Los Angeles, California, US

LA StarShooter wrote:
Did you do bookkeeping at high school? Software can be depreciated. It's an asset. It loses value as business assets tend to do. Legitimate depreciation helps a lot. I presume you depreciate your photography equipment and your office setup?

In highschool I studies enough to get the grades I needed. I avoided school getting in the way of my education...wink

And I do know about depreciation. First you have to pay for the item and then you have to depreciate it over time, often several years. With a software subscription it is an immediate write off. Very simple. It's a complete write off too because it is never an asset.

Apr 23 14 03:46 pm Link

Photographer

Digitoxin

Posts: 13456

Denver, Colorado, US

Fred Greissing wrote:
. With a software subscription it is an immediate write off. Very simple. It's a complete write off too because it is never an asset.

Try Section 179?  Likely, Full write off of licensed ("purchased"), off the shelf software in the year it was acquired.

Apr 23 14 05:10 pm Link

Photographer

Michael Fryd

Posts: 5231

Miami Beach, Florida, US

Rowen wrote:
...

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a super advocate of the Cloud. I've been a subscriber to the entire CC package since last summer. Premiere hasn't worked on my machine for three months (it crashes after the splash screen loads). PS has several bugs in it, especially with plug-ins like Topaz. Illustrator is also unstable at times.Etc. But these will be worked out and things will move forward. I've been a software engineer for nearly 30 years and I saw this concept coming years ago.

Such is life in a technological world.

-Ro

I am curious why you believe that these issues will be worked out?   Adobe is running a business.  What is the business advantage to fixing these bugs?

Previously, they fixed bugs in new versions in order to get people to pay for an upgrade.  Adobe needed to fix bugs in order to entice people to upgrade.  Upgrades are needed to generate revenue.

Under the new model, you are locked into paying whether they fix the bugs or not.  Fixing bugs no longer has a positive affect on revenue.   Paying employees to fix bugs now simply takes away from the bottom line.

It will be interesting to see what happens to quality control now that quality is no longer needed to maintain revenue.

Apr 23 14 05:51 pm Link