Ivy Anarchy wrote:
Hi all,

A photographer on MM recently sent an obvious copy/paste message providing his contact details, website address and rates. Annoying and unsolicited but not surprising. THEN, however, he says this:

"Whilst I very rarely do what is called TFP...

...(If you haven't heard the term already it stands for Time for Print and is an old term that basically means we both work for free to get photo's for our portfolios.)...

What I can do, is if you are happy to help me out with some marketing (Nothing more than a few simple facebook posts) then I can help you to "win" a shoot with me through one of my competitions. It's just a simple and powerful way for me to reach a very wide audience and every little bit helps."

Help me WIN a shoot? So my understanding is that he would be setting up a competition that has already been rigged to be won by me, because I'm helping him out by marketing his business and this "competition" on Facebook. Can I report him? Is this fraud? Am I allowed to name and shame here?

Thanks,

Ivy

I'm sorry, but that sounds exactly like how politicians work!   "You scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours..."  Donate large sums of money in most countries, and you can control a government.  Alright, I don't mean to make this off topic, so besides elections, the fact is that many so called "reality shows" are rigged.  Beauty contests are rigged ... but hopefully lotteries and gambling facilities are not rigged, right? 

There is nothing illegal that I know of about setting up a fake contest unless you've got more background, or details that can prove that he is falsely advertising this.  Just in the realm of advertising, there is a tremendous amount of leeway in what can be said or claimed and what cannot.  It's hard to say if he has crossed the line or not. If there were money involved, such as him selling tickets for a drawing, then you'd have more reason to bust him.   

If this is his way of promoting, then you can either say "no thanks" or you can roll with it.  This is your choice, but don't be surprised if someone else jumps in and is declared the "winner" if you don't claim the offer he has made to you.

Marin Photography NYC wrote:
Isn't everything rigged? contest, government, supreme court, justice system, lottery, job market, etc, etc, etc. 

Yeah, pretty much, eh?

Ivy Anarchy wrote:
That doesn't make it okay, fair, ethical or lawful. I find it surprising and disappointing how laissez faire people are!

welcome to the internet?...

Ivy Anarchy wrote:
That doesn't make it okay, fair, ethical or lawful. I find it surprising and disappointing how laissez faire people are!

Here's your mistake: It may not be fair or ethical... but it's probably lawful. Someone has to be *injured* (physically, financially, whatever) for it to rise to that point.

Here, it appears asinine but ultimately harmless.

Ivy Anarchy wrote:
That doesn't make it okay, fair, ethical or lawful. I find it surprising and disappointing how laissez faire people are!

This guy doesn't sound too bright approaching a complete stranger with some underhanded scheme. Go with your gut, you'll feel better about yourself.

HO Photo wrote:
Here's your mistake: It may not be fair or ethical... but it's probably lawful. Someone has to be *injured* (physically, financially, whatever) for it to rise to that point.

Here, it appears asinine but ultimately harmless.

Not in her country!

Ivy Anarchy wrote:
ETA: Just checked the ACCC website (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) and this does indeed fall under the category of false and deceptive claims in advertising, particularly in regards to "prizes and giveaways".

Ivy Anarchy wrote:
What makes it seem like fraud(ulent behaviour) is that he would be advertising a competition, available for anyone to enter, on the premise that all entries have a chance at winning the competition. If a winner has been preselected then it is not in fact a competition. I strongly believe that would constitute misleading and deceptive advertising - although I am only halfway through my law degree!

It doesn't matter to me whether it's a "win win" for both the photographer and the proposed model, or whether corruption is rife in other competitions. It's dishonest and as far as I know, against the law. I posted the thread because it is an ethical concern of mine. Good marketing? Sure. That doesn't mean it isn't dishonest, unethical or unfair.

ETA: Just checked the ACCC website (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) and this does indeed fall under the category of false and deceptive claims in advertising, particularly in regards to "prizes and giveaways".

You sound like a really good person!  I wish there were more righteous people like you.

Ivy Anarchy wrote:
What makes it seem like fraud(ulent behaviour) is that he would be advertising a competition, available for anyone to enter, on the premise that all entries have a chance at winning the competition. If a winner has been preselected then it is not in fact a competition. I strongly believe that would constitute misleading and deceptive advertising - although I am only halfway through my law degree! ...

You're in another country, but in the US, in my state, it would probably be considered fraud because the "contest" was rigged. In all likelihood it would be ignored because the prize is nearly valueless, but if it were a car, someone could go to jail.

Ken Warren Photography wrote:
In all likelihood it would be ignored because the prize is nearly valueless, but if it were a car, someone could go to jail.

+1



Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Ivy Anarchy wrote:
What makes it seem like fraud(ulent behaviour) is that he would be advertising a competition, available for anyone to enter, on the premise that all entries have a chance at winning the competition. If a winner has been preselected then it is not in fact a competition. I strongly believe that would constitute misleading and deceptive advertising - although I am only halfway through my law degree!

It doesn't matter to me whether it's a "win win" for both the photographer and the proposed model, or whether corruption is rife in other competitions. It's dishonest and as far as I know, against the law. I posted the thread because it is an ethical concern of mine. Good marketing? Sure. That doesn't mean it isn't dishonest, unethical or unfair.

ETA: Just checked the ACCC website (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) and this does indeed fall under the category of false and deceptive claims in advertising, particularly in regards to "prizes and giveaways".

From the message in your OP this is what I think he meant.

It did not sound to me like he preselected you as the winner it just sounds like he invited you to join his facebook competition for the opportunity to win a free shoot. In order to win the free shoot you need to get your friends to like his page. The person with the most referral of likes win.

I didn't read anywhere where it says you are guaranteed the shoot or that you are guaranteed to be the winner.