Orestes  wrote:
I never had flake's, I pay models handsomely for their time, And I always pick the one's with loads of activity on their social media. Funny I never had a dead grandma or broken car at the last minute so far.... compared to many.

Nowadays, I use Facebook more often for communication with models than I do this site.  The more active they are, the more valuable their images are to me for obvious reasons.  Like you, I do pay models, but not all the time, and I'm not so extravagant with my pay rates as you might be.  I must mention that paying models does not guarantee they wont flake.  It is important to find models who can become invested in the project.  Those who show interest in my work will more often shoot TFP with me ... and they show up!

Isis22 wrote:

I will respectfully disagree with your statement. The OP demands a deposit from his models before shooting them, even when HE is the one paying. Read his profile.

Yeah, I would pass shooting with him

Isis22 wrote:
I will respectfully disagree with your statement. The OP demands a deposit from his models before shooting them, even when HE is the one paying. Read his profile.

I think of this as an unsolicited critique. The OP didn't ask for help with a profile. They asked how a person deals with flakes. If the deposit were the reason for flaking, the model shouldn't have agreed to shoot.

OP profile wrote:
Due to too many no shows or cancellations, I am now requiring a small deposit to secure the date of the shoot,effective Feb1,2014. This will be refunded on the day of the shoot or credited if there is pay involved.

Mark Salo wrote:
How is that working for you?

Yes, how is this requiring a deposit working out for the OP?  Curious minds would like to know.  The only time I've required a deposit is for shooting weddings.  I always collected 50% of the cost of my shooting the wedding in advance.  With models?  For get it!  I'd rather take my chances with my vetting methods and just the right amount of communcation. I always plan for models flaking on me, and it doesn't happen.

Isis22 wrote:

I will respectfully disagree with your statement. The OP demands a deposit from his models before shooting them, even when HE is the one paying. Read his profile.

No, my statement is accurate.

I pay models and don't require deposits and experience the same thing as the OP. Other photographers have the same experience and don't require deposits, as well.

BJagerPhotography wrote:
OK my fellow photographers,

  What do you guys do when your model does not show up?
I have had three models on here that I have corresponded with and arranged a date and time to shoot.
Only problem... they did not show up nor did they bother returning any messages I sent.
  How do you handle it ? What, if anything, do you say when / if the model returns your messages.
  What amazes me is the lack of professionalism in not replying. Or is that the reply.. last minute " not interested".
Would love to read your thoughts on MODELS WHO DO NOT SHOW UP !

I contact them the day before the scheduled shoot then about 2 hours before the shoot.  If they don't answer their phones, I find something else to do and write them off without making a big issue about it.

Bare Essential Photos wrote:

No, my statement is accurate.

I pay models and don't require deposits and experience the same thing as the OP. Other photographers have the same experience and don't require deposits, as well.

I had models not show up when they were being paid.  The problem here is finding models who are genuinely interested.

GCobb Photography wrote:

I had models not show up when they were being paid.  The problem here is finding models who are genuinely interested.

+1,000

Yes, many other photographers experience the same thing.

GER Photography wrote:
If they let me know the day before or longer, no problem. If on the other hand, they just don't show up without notice, I will not speak to them again, I will block them, and I will tell everyone I can that they are a waste of time to deal with.

You actually do that to models?

BlueMoonPics wrote:
I would suggest you go to the critique forum and see what others can suggest in improving your profile here on MM and your portfolio.  I think it would help.

That would be a good idea!  The OP is new to the forums, and getting a critique might be helpful.  Also I hope that the suggestions made on here will provide some positive input to his reducing the chances of models flaking.  As for those few who claim they've never been flaked in, I never say "never" because I know better!

BlueMoonPics wrote:
A few months ago I had a model cancel on me last minute.
I had a MUA but didn't want to cancel on her.

So I shot my MUA...


I contact the models the day before the shoot to confirm the shoot.  If they don't answer then I cancel the shoot.

Try to hire a MUA who models too(theres a good number of them) that way if you have a last minute cancellation you have a back up plan! Although this requires a little bit of research

i am a guy named eddy wrote:

This is easily the stupidest thing I've ever read on MM.

So.. Taking active responsibility for your own life is stupid?

Good luck with that.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Calling or implying people are stupid or unintelligent isn't helpful and strikes me as mean spirited.   The OP didn't deserve that.   None of us do.   I accept and hopefully others as well that part of working with others when you aren't paying and even when you are is sometimes people will flake.   It happens to excellent photographers.   It happens when you pay.   It happens a lot when you aren't paying.   We can't control what others do and damm sure we shouldn't look down our noses or belittle other members when they ask respectful legitimate questions.

You read what you wanted.

This is not exclusive for the OP - it's general truth.

BECAUSE you can't change how others behave there's nothing you can do in that department.

Now... You can bash the "model", call them irresponsible, blame your town, the economy, etc etc...

Or... You can look inside and understand there are certain things you can do to change how it affects you.

Who said anything about paying?

Lets see...

Make sure both parties understand the arangement.
Have the model email and phone number
Make sure you're not coming off as a creep (insisting too much, calling too much, sending too many messages)
Make sure you're not pushing boundaries of the model.
Make sure you're being clear in compensation and times.
Ask the model to call you 48 hours before to close details, if she doesn't just cancel the shoot. Do not call her.

There's a lot more you can do.

Complaining about your situation and calling the "model" names has to be the least productive.

Natalia_Taffarel wrote:

You read what you wanted.

This is not exclusive for the OP - it's general truth.

BECAUSE you can't change how others behave there's nothing you can do in that department.

Now... You can bash the "model", call them irresponsible, blame your town, the economy, etc etc...

Or... You can look inside and understand there are certain things you can do to change how it affects you.

Who said anything about paying?

Lets see...

Make sure both parties understand the arangement.
Have the model email and phone number
Make sure you're not coming off as a creep (insisting too much, calling too much, sending too many messages)
Make sure you're not pushing boundaries of the model.
Make sure you're being clear in compensation and times.
Ask the model to call you 48 hours before to close details, if she doesn't just cancel the shoot. Do not call her.

There's a lot more you can do.

Complaining about your situation and calling the "model" names has to be the least productive.

Did the OP do any of what you suggested?  Did you ask?    Several members have posted and have flakes.   What are they doing wrong?   Look, if you get some models to shoot then odds are you're golden.   Some won't.   Calling folks stupid and worse isn't helpful.   There are really good shooters who have flakes.   When you have a MUA and a stylist you can bet photographers are making some calls.   Sometimes... choice words for the agency she is listed with.   What did they do wrong?   They also complain about what happened.     How many messages is too many?   How does anyone know what a persons boundaries are over a phone call unless its discussed.

Its simple.  Change your mind say so.   Boundaries pushed say so.   Questions about compensation, ask.   Can't make a shoot then speak up.   Calling or implying the OP is stupid or unintelligent was a cheap shot.  Thanks for the suggestions though.   I always learn from you.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Did the OP do any of what you suggested?  Did you ask?    Several members have posted and have flakes.   What are they doing wrong?   Look, if you get some models to shoot then odds are you're golden.   Some won't.   Calling folks stupid and worse isn't helpful.   There are really good shooters who have flakes.   When you have a MUA and a stylist you can bet photographers are making some calls.   Sometimes... choice words for the agency she is listed with.   What did they do wrong?   They also complain about what happened.     How many messages is too many?   How does anyone know what a persons boundaries are over a phone call unless its discussed.

Its simple.  Change your mind say so.   Boundaries pushed say so.   Questions about compensation, ask.   Can't make a shoot then speak up.   Calling or implying the OP is stupid or unintelligent was a cheap shot.  Thanks for the suggestions though.   I always learn from you.

Youre missing the point completely.

I say the same to people who got screwed with payment:

What could you have done differently ?

What are you going to do differently from now on?

It's a mentality. One that leads to self improvement.

Is it going to stop people from screwing this person over payment? Maybe, maybe not, but it will help this person to deal with its problems in a more positive, constructive way.

Will the 48 hours before call stop the flakes? No, but maybe if they don't call you have enough time to book someone else, someone you have already worked with and know its reliable.

Taking responsibility for your own life is NOT about having less problems, we all have problems, we all deal with irresponsible people, we all have clients that don't pay or push too much or or or

But complaining about it, taking action against then, posting in your profile, speaking ill about them or anything that borders trying to change how others behave is NEVER positive or constructive.

BlueMoonPics wrote:
I contact the models the day before the shoot to confirm the shoot.  If they don't answer then I cancel the shoot.

+1

Confirmation is key. Depending on how far in advance I book, I ask for confirmation 1 month in advance, then 1 week, and I call or text the day before the shoot. No answer or no confirmations in return, no shoot.


J.

Rik Williams wrote:
Don't give up whatever you do.

I hade quite a big shoot lined up with a full team, stylist, assistants and booked location. The model was an agency girl, but dropped at 3am on the morning of the shoot (i didn't actually find this out until 6am when I woke for the day)

If you book through an agency, you should just have dealt with them. They would send you another girl.


J.

JohnEnger wrote:

If you book through an agency, you should just have dealt with them. They would send you another girl.


J.

Not if the shoot is on a Sunday, long weekend

SPRINGHEEL  wrote:
I don't have no shows.

If I don't hear back from them 48 hours before the shoot, I cancel it.


I don't have time to fuck around with people who don't respect me and my work

+1

i don't play the no show game, so if the shoot is not confirmed by a phone call the day before, as well as, on the day of the shoot (when the model is leaving her location to meet up with me) then, the shot is automatically cancelled.

that's my formula, and it has worked well for me. that's why i don't have no shows.

Rik Williams wrote:
Not if the shoot is on a Sunday, long weekend

Then you should see a lawyer and get help to recover your losses. I suppose your hiring the model was through some sort of contract? If they did not uphold their end...

J.

JohnEnger wrote:

Then you should see a lawyer and get help to recover your losses. I suppose your hiring the model was through some sort of contract? If they did not uphold their end...

J.

It's all done and by with now anyway, put it this way, I didn't lose out in anyway whatsoever... But more importantly, I have lots of brownie points to redeem at a later date

Somethings simply happen for a reason

Bare Essential Photos wrote:

This is normal. You're not doing anything wrong.

Every once in awhile you will find a model who does show up. When that happens, treat her like a precious jewel and shoot her multiple times.

There are a few photographers who create facades of themselves and say that they've never been flaked on. Yeah, meanwhile, back on planet Earth.

It may happen once in a,while to anyone. And it certainly happens to models too. We just don't make it public because it's embarrassing that we've been forgotten about because a,big paid,shoot has come up.


If it happening often, then the photographer is,doing something wrong.

This could be sleazy talk just before the shoot by email, or something else that's a red light. Like a bad reference, or something in an email that's a bit weird (eg I had one once asking how I'd feel about bondage - what they meant was an implied Newton kind of thing but it wasn't put very well).
Or it could be that the photographer is consistently going for models without much experience because they look like they may need TF or something. They don't look for credits and they don't check references. Which means it's a crap shoot if you'll excuse the pun.

Top Gun Digital wrote:
Were these models that you were offering paid work or were these trade shoots.

How the model is being compensated is irrelevant to the fact that they flaked. One has no coloration to the other. 

If it's a trade shoot the model has very little incentive to show up.

Speak for yourself dude, that statement is complete bullshit. Of all the flakes I've had in the last 10 years (and I've had very few of them) the number of models who have flaked on well paid shoots outnumber the models I've worked with on a trade basis probably 5 to 1...maybe more. Maybe your test shoots have little or no value to your models but I can assure you, mine certainly are not the case.

BJagerPhotography wrote:
OK my fellow photographers,

  What do you guys do when your model does not show up?
I have had three models on here that I have corresponded with and arranged a date and time to shoot.
Only problem... they did not show up nor did they bother returning any messages I sent.
  How do you handle it ? What, if anything, do you say when / if the model returns your messages.
  What amazes me is the lack of professionalism in not replying. Or is that the reply.. last minute " not interested".
Would love to read your thoughts on MODELS WHO DO NOT SHOW UP !

If it's just a test shoot then I don't care, and I'll either go to the bar or my friends place and do something fun - like drink or work on my bike or both.

If it's a client I will complain to a few friends, threaten to start taking deposits, and move on with life.

Studio is paid for either way, so it's not like there is any more or less cost in me using it.



Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

BJagerPhotography wrote:
OK my fellow photographers,

What do you guys do when your model does not show up?

Your models don't show up?...

GASP

Tony Lawrence wrote:
When models complain about last minute canceled paid shoots.   I get it.  Their pissed.   When photographers talk about flakes I also get it.   Sometimes their isn't anything that can be done and telling them that you haven't had a flake in hundred years or what they've done wrong or their stupid or they shouldn't complain is in my view shitty.   I think we can offer suggestions without insult.   None of us can control the actions of others.   These threads are usually done as a way of blowing off steam.   Its like being at a bar and complaining about your wife to a bartender.    Richard Avedon or Steven Meisel could be on MM and models would flake and cancel last minute or not return messages.

Its just the nature of things here.

See? It's a different mentality.

If you go to a bar to complain about your wife, do you an her a favor.
Talk it over or get a divorce.

You either learn of bad situations or your doomed to have it happen to you again.

Bad luck is not a thing
Bad situations if repeated ARE indeed your fault.

Telling people Is ok to complain instead of taking a look at themselves is not doing them any favors.

No, you can't change what others do, that's why the only thing to do is look at way you could do differently.

Also.. I doubt great photographers have a lot of "flakes"

Natalia_Taffarel wrote:
When something goes wrong intelligent people learn from what THEY did wrong and how to avoid it in the future.

Stupid people blame someone/something else for the circumstance.

X

i am a guy named eddy wrote:
This is easily the stupidest thing I've ever read on MM.

This must be the ONLY thing you've ever read on MM?

There is a decent chunk of truth in what she said. This is my 14th yr. between OMP & MM, and in that time I can count the amount of flakes I've had on less than two hands. AND, my definition of a flake is a tad broader than no call no shows.

I see people rant in the forums often....hell some of them have had more flakes in a couple weeks than I've had, and continue to have them on a regular basis. I got a hint for you.....it ain't the models.

Natalia_Taffarel wrote:
See? It's a different mentality.

If you go to a bar to complain about your wife, do you an her a favor.
Talk it over or get a divorce.

You either learn of bad situations or your doomed to have it happen to you again.

Bad luck is not a thing
Bad situations if repeated ARE indeed your fault.

Telling people Is ok to complain instead of taking a look at themselves is not doing them any favors.

No, you can't change what others do, that's why the only thing to do is look at way you could do differently.

Also.. I doubt great photographers have a lot of "flakes"

I don't think I said that great photographers have a lot of 'flakes'   I did say that two of the best ever might have problems here.    I do KNOW for a fact that agency shooters have flakes both paid and test shoots.   People use these forums for support and suggestions and sometimes just to bitc#.   Not my place to tell others what they should do or say or post.   Positive suggestions are a good thing.   Calling or inferring someone is stupid not so much.

" When something goes wrong intelligent people learn from what THEY did wrong and how to avoid it in the future.

Stupid people blame someone/something else for the circumstance.

X"    I would disagree about bad situations happening to people more then once.   I have daughters who sadly have experienced domestic abuse more then once.     I'm not going to argue with you Natalia.   I found your comment to the OP ugly and unhelpful.   Maybe you know could that thing you suggested.   Look at your own behavior.   I won't comment further though.   Have at it.