Photographic Adventures wrote:
I thought I'd ask in the model forum since the question I have is based on a reply from a model

I approached a local model about doing a TF* session since her bio said she was open to such.  I got a reply that stated  "Thanks for your interest in working with me! Currently, my August schedule is super packed so I am only accepting paid work at this time. If you are interested in booking me, please send me a quote and I will get back to you asap!"

Now I can understand that she's busy.  Frankly, I'd be shocked if she wasn't.  But what has me puzzled is her request for a quote.  I can quote her MY rate for doing a paid shoot, but how can I send her a quote for her time.  I expected her to provide me with a rate to do the shoot I outlined in my initial inquiry.

So, my question is: what is she asking me to send her?   Am I supposed to tell her how much I'm willing to pay her?

I would say yes, based on her response. She wants you to mention a rate that you are willing to pay for her time, either by the hour or for the session. She will then let you know if that's OK with her or not. I am sure there will be the possibility for some negotiating.

Ken Warren Photography wrote:
I would assume she's saying "Make me an offer."

Exactly; she said she's only accepting paid work at this time.. so one could only conclude she's not asking for your rate and she means for you to send her a rate  you'd be comfortable paying her at. Which means she probably does not have a fixed rate for shoots, rather just works with peoples budgets. If you're worried about quoting too high or low, just quote a reasonable amount. If she thinks it's too low the worst she can say is she's usually offered more!

Amelia Fae wrote:
Exactly; she said she's only accepting paid work at this time.. so one could only conclude she's not asking for your rate and she means for you to send her a rate  you'd be comfortable paying her at. Which means she probably does not have a fixed rate for shoots, rather just works with peoples budgets. If you're worried about quoting too high or low, just quote a reasonable amount. If she thinks it's too low the worst she can say is she's usually offered more!

I usually don't hire models, but I was seriously considering making an exception.  I have no idea what the prevailing rates are in my area.  I don't want to insult her with offering too little.  OTOH, I don't want to offer twice her usual rate.

Before I asked the question here I responded by asking her to quote me a rate for the session I had described and she never responded back.  Oh well, live and learn.

Photographic Adventures wrote:
I usually don't hire models, but I was seriously considering making an exception.  I have no idea what the prevailing rates are in my area.  I don't want to insult her with offering too little.  OTOH, I don't want to offer twice her usual rate.

Before I asked the question here I responded by asking her to quote me a rate for the session I had described and she never responded back.  Oh well, live and learn.

I don't think you would have insulted her. I've been offered about $20 under my usual and depending on the skill and experience of the photographer, I work with it. For future reference: I think a normal fashion concept would be 25 - 50 an hour while anything with nudity (or implied) would be 80 or more an hour. But it varies from person to person! She probably wasn't sure what to quote you, probably because she was having the same problem you were, "Too high I will scare him away, too low I will be selling myself short". But that's just a guess

Amelia Fae wrote:
She probably wasn't sure what to quote you, probably because she was having the same problem you were, "Too high I will scare him away, too low I will be selling myself short". But that's just a guess

LOL!  A classic case of Catch 22, I guess.  I'm not sure where to go from here.  I guess I either message her back with an offer of write it off to experience.

Photographic Adventures wrote:
LOL!  A classic case of Catch 22, I guess.  I'm not sure where to go from here.  I guess I either message her back with an offer of write it off to experience.

Wouldn't hurt to try if you are still into making it work.
Just say:
Hey so-so,
I will still have work you'd be good for on x, y, z days at $x/hour. If you are still interested. Let me know if that's agreeable, or else I am willing to negotiate!

Something to that effect. May or may not work out. But then you'll know if she was really committed in the first place!

Amelia Fae wrote:
Wouldn't hurt to try if you are still into making it work.
Just say:
Hey so-so,
I will still have work you'd be good for on x, y, z days at $x/hour. If you are still interested. Let me know if that's agreeable, or else I am willing to negotiate!

Something to that effect. May or may not work out. But then you'll know if she was really committed in the first place!

At this point there's no harm in taking another shot.  Thanks.

Photographic Adventures wrote:
So, my question is: what is she asking me to send her?   Am I supposed to tell her how much I'm willing to pay her?

Yes. That's what she's asking.

My suggestion would be to start by asking for her rates, if you're interested in paying her, and possibly making an offer based on her response. That way she's the one who has to toss out a number first (which is what she's trying to avoid).

I have a friend who is a very well known and frequently published fitness and glamour photographer (who does zero trade work, btw). We went to lunch last time he was in St. Louis, and the conversation turned to rates. His hourly rate is $100 (same as mine).

When a model inquires about his shoot, he asks, "What's your budget?"

If the model says $400, he says, "That's great. That gives us half a day."

If the model says $800, he says, "That's great. That gives us a full day."

If the model says $1,500, he says, "That's great. That gives us a full day."

If the model says $2,500, he says, "That's great. That gives us a full day."

You get the idea.

The moral of the story is that, in many negotiations, the first person to toss out a number loses.

Marin Photography NYC wrote:
Sounds like she is blowing you off but will work with you if you pay her. I bet she will have plenty of time if you offer cash...Nothing wrong with that but you are looking to trade........

If you are looking to trade then trade with someone who will....

I want to trade with people who really and honestly like or love my work. This way I don't have to worry about someone not appreciating what I do bring to the table.....

Next!

I have people who I can trade with, but none have exactly the look I'm after.

I told her that I'd be willing to pay and for her to give me a rate, but she has not replied with rates.  Next is probably the only option at this point other than throwing out a rate and seeing if she'll bite.

Camerosity wrote:
Yes. That's what she's asking.

My suggestion would be to start by asking for her rates, if you're interested in paying her, and possibly making an offer based on her response.

I have a friend who is a very well known and published fitness and glamour photographer (who does zero trade work, btw). We went to lunch last time he was in St. Louis, and the conversation turned to rates. His hourly rate is $100 (same as mine).

When a model inquires about his shoot, he asks, "What's your budget?"

If the model says $400, he says, "That's great. That gives us half a day."

If the model says $800, he says, "That's great. That gives us a full day."

If the model says $1,500, he says, "That's great. That gives us a full day."

If the model says $2,500, he says, "That's great. That gives us a full day."

You get the idea.

The moral of the story is that, in many negotiations, the first person to toss out a number loses.

I did reply asking for her rates and availability.  So far no reply.  That's why I thought she might be asking for something else, possibly in model talk

Photographic Adventures wrote:
I did reply asking for her rates and availability.  So far no reply.  That's why I thought she might be asking for something else, possibly in model talk

Be patient. If she wants you to pay her, and there's a possibility that you will, the odds are strongly in favor of her getting back to you.

She's probably juggling multiple email conversations - and trying to decide what rate to quote you.

If she needs the work (and most models do), she may quote you a rate that's lower than her normal rate. If she doesn't, well, you can always counter.

In the real world, rates are rarely compromised unless there is a reason to do so (like a seven-day booking the week before the rent is due, for example). On MM, my guess is that they are compromised more often than not.

Also, don't get one-itis, i.e., you have to shoot a particular model, or your life will end. If the terms aren't favorable, there isn't a model in the world you can't survive not shooting.

Btw, I know a guy who owns a guitar store. He buys a lot of his used guitars on Craigslist around the 15th of the month - especially from listings that are at least three weeks old. By that time, he says, sellers are more willing to compromise, because the rent is two weeks past due. Never underestimate the power of the lease agreement or the mortgage payment. lol

Photographic Adventures wrote:
I did reply asking for her rates and availability.  So far no reply.  That's why I thought she might be asking for something else, possibly in model talk

I don't think there's any special "model talk" involved here.  She used the word "quote" incorrectly.  It's not a crime.

You have 30+ years in business and I have roughly the same (in a different business) so I won't tell you how to negotiate.  I'll just tell you what I do.

For me, trying to get the upper hand in negotiation so I can bargain someone down to her lowest price is short-term thinking.  Building relationships and maintaining a reputation are more important to me than getting the best of each deal. 

I decide what someone's services are worth to me (conservatively speaking) and bid that much.  I try to find a number that I'm equally comfortable paying or walking away from.  No regrets.  If it's 3x what she might have settled for then I still got what I paid for, plus she's thrilled and that's good.