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Escort language
First of all: I never shoot nudes or partial nudity. A model contacted me wanting to shoot with me. I sent my "more info" thing which explained that I'm not a fan of escorts, talks about times when they made me and/or the model uncomfortable, ended shoots early, etc. I got this back: "I don't usually bring an escort, but tbh it kind of concerns me that they're not allowed." I'm a full-time professional photographer. I make 100% of my living from my paid work. When a TF model comes back to me with this, I'm just left staring. Is there a way of explaining to a model that I don't want to deal with entertaining an escort and still not making her paranoid that I'm some sort of creep wanting to chain her up in the basement or something??? Sheesh, she can look at my MM photos, she can look at my web site, she can Google my name and I'm all over the place...yet I get this. Really folks--I'm looking for help. What can I say? Aug 08 14 07:29 am Link "I'm sorry, but I won't be working with you"! No need to explain. Your policy is your policy! Stick with it! Aug 08 14 07:42 am Link Reply 1: 'By all means Escorts are welcome and encouraged. During shooting they will be required to leave the studio area.' Reply 2: 'By all means Escorts are welcome and encouraged. My neighbor is a retired state trooper and will also be sitting in during our shoot for my safety . . . Now, when were you thinking about booking?' Aug 08 14 07:51 am Link You have a ton of credited photos she can look thru as references. And i have actually heard that before - "if you don't allow escorts, you can't be trusted." You have to decide if you want to work with her bad enough to go against your policies. My guess is, based on the number of models you have shot, you don't need her. After all, she contacted you. Aug 08 14 07:52 am Link Just say "next!".........or ask her to bring an MUA instead, maybe another model? Two for one is good! Aug 08 14 07:54 am Link I would just move on if the situation is not to your liking. I've found that the less experience a model has, the greater the tendency to bring an escort there is. I prefer not to have escorts but I don't voice this and I'm not adamant about it. My personal history, though, has been different that others on this site. The few escorts that showed up have turned out to be models in big modelling agencies, Victoria's Secret fit models, Brazilian models, MUA and stylists, etc. That's why I don't bring up the subject. I've been lucky.  Aug 08 14 07:59 am Link BlueMoonPics wrote: This isn't New York. Aug 08 14 08:03 am Link Marin Photography NYC wrote: In fact, the thing I sent her said that "the best escort is a cute friend who would also want to be photographed." Aug 08 14 08:06 am Link Muskopf Photography wrote: Yes, I understand. Aug 08 14 08:10 am Link Muskopf Photography wrote: Yeah, I'd just leave this part out - it just makes you look unprofessional. Aug 08 14 08:34 am Link J O H N A L L A N wrote: This. I feel like you said too much from the get go. Just say no escorts. No need to elaborate. The more you say the bigger the hole you are digging. Aug 08 14 08:38 am Link Isis22 wrote: I agree. Aug 08 14 08:41 am Link When I send a response to someone looking to bring an escort that I think may be a distraction to my shoot, I generally try to follow it up with a helpful "However, I'd be happy to provide you with the contact information for anyone that I've shot with in the past in case you'd like to check my references." If that's not enough, I sometimes also suggest that while I'd prefer not to have an escort, I'd be happy to work with an MUA or Stylist of their choice as long as they are willing to trade as well or have their costs covered by the model. That way there is another body at the shoot for their comfort. Overall, when saying no to someone it's often best to find a way to offer them some alternatives that will give them an equal sense of comfort. Aug 08 14 08:45 am Link J O H N A L L A N wrote: I'd be more inclined to go this route than the escort being a boyfriend type Aug 08 14 08:48 am Link It has been my experience that whenever there is an issue, it's probably not worth the time especially for a TF shoot. Aug 08 14 09:05 am Link I usually just pass as well. Very rarely does a model appeal to me enough to want to worry about the hassle, and models who insist on them are newer anyway often not worth it. While I'm not completely against, one of the things that I will tell models is that I insist on a verifiable identity for any escorts, so I'll suggest one of several things: - a model or MUA know and have worked with before. That way they can meet up beforehand. I'll even recommend models I know close to the model asking for an escort. - a model or MUA who has some sort of verifiable identity. A MM account is a good way, but a professional page works. - at least three references from photographers (I contact the photographer) who have shot with that escort present. (And most models asking for escorts can't actually provide them!) I generally find that asking for these conditions divides the models asking for escorts into two camps. Those who insist in 'their escort' and those who see why I would like to have a verified identity. The first I generally pass on as this is usually code for "thug boyfriend.' The second generally produces good results and generally positive feelings all around. Aug 08 14 09:07 am Link I usually don't get too hung up on the whole escort thing. I've had several models say they were bringing an escort or a friend and I just tell them that it's no problem and that they are welcome as long as they are willing to wait in the sitting room outside the studio. More than half ended up coming alone and those that did bring an escort did not present any problems. Aug 08 14 09:51 am Link Similar thing here - escorts are welcome and can meet me and inspect the studio and then are welcome to wait downstairs for the 2+hrs while we shoot. its a win-win situation. Aug 08 14 10:32 am Link Elliot wrote: Since I don't have a staff, I'd be uncomfortable letting an escort wander around where I can't see them. Aug 08 14 10:39 am Link My reply would be: "I am a professional with many years of hard earned positive work. Check at least 5 of the models I have worked with to get independent references of our shoots. I am concerned with any factor that can ruin a shoot- no show model, wrong clothes, bad makeup, and extra people who have no actual purpose at the shoot but voice their opinions anyways. A key reason I test with models to establish their qualifications for professional paid work. If a model is over 18, can't travel independently, and always needs a babysitter, then I cannot recommend you." Aug 08 14 10:41 am Link Muskopf Photography wrote: Yeah, her reply almost encourages discourse because she expressed "concerns." Maybe a reply back could be: Aug 08 14 11:55 am Link Unless an escort is there to help (as in do the models hair or makeup or help with styling), there is no reason for them to be there during the shoot. That's why it's smart to have things written out explaining your rules so that clients can see if they'd be comfortable working with you or not. I mean, this may sound harsh but if a client knows your rules yet still tries to force you to do things their way, then screw them! Plain and simple. Don't feel bad about it. Why would you want to work with someone that will make you feel like there is something wrong with you because they chose not to read your rules or did but wanted to disregard them anyway? You are your own boss and your make your own rules. People you work with either need to follow those rules or go somewhere else. There are plenty of professional clients out there to work with. ----------------------------------------------------- My profile says this in regards to escorts... "Since escorts tend to be a distraction, please don't bring anyone to the photoshoot unless they are a professional hair stylist and/or makeup artist that understands how to properly conduct themselves during a photoshoot. If you strongly believe that to be the case, let me know in advance and send me some samples of their work so that we can discuss it further." Aug 08 14 12:01 pm Link There's no way to know how many photo shoots happen between models and photographers on MM annually. Yet every time I stop by here there are threads about models being afraid to be alone with a photographer. Is there anyway to know the frequency of their fears being justified, 1: 1000, 1:10000 etc.? Then I'm caught wondering how many of them text while driving without a second thought. Aug 08 14 12:05 pm Link Muskopf Photography wrote: I honestly think that the larger issue is that you explain why you don't want an escort on set as a part of your standard "more info" email. In doing this you're basically challenging someone to prove that they can be an exception to your rule. There's no need for you to justify why your policies are your policies and when you try to it may raise suspicion about why you feel the need to do so. Aug 08 14 12:13 pm Link Tiffany_B wrote: You're right. As was pointed out earlier, the more I say, the more trouble I get in. Aug 08 14 02:57 pm Link Muskopf Photography wrote: My approach is this: Aug 08 14 03:03 pm Link Muskopf Photography wrote: Nothing. Henry Ford said it best. Never complain, never explain. Aug 08 14 03:31 pm Link MainePaintah wrote: Don't think that an explanation will cause her to change her policy. Matt Schmidt wrote: After all, your safety is important too. Muskopf Photography wrote: Twice as many grandmothers are likely to die. Figures JenB wrote: Personally, I don't use reflectors and people trying to help have messed up my equipment. Also, why would I want the model to choose our MUA and, of course, a random MUA might be just as much of a distraction as a random escort. Aug 08 14 03:35 pm Link Gabby57 wrote: I'm firmly convinced that these models are likely to be overly suspicious about everything that occurs in the shoot. Aug 08 14 03:39 pm Link MainePaintah wrote: Exactly, she doesn't have to like your policy any more than you have to like hers. Aug 08 14 05:31 pm Link Muskopf Photography wrote: Not exactly a professional response, just say no and work with more professional models. Aug 08 14 05:46 pm Link Escorts have never been an issue in my work, as I only shoot grown ups. Models lacking enough industry insight to know how to properly vet a photographer are those I do not work with. Aug 08 14 05:47 pm Link I generally say, "I allow escorts only if they are bona-fide caregivers who are required by the model's physical condition. If a model is afraid of me there's no point in our trying to work together. I feel it is much better if she works only with people she trusts." Aug 08 14 05:59 pm Link Just say next. I have made a few threads about this topic over the past few months trying to find out why so many models in my area have this mentality. A few have shared bad experiences as the reason behind it. Given the realities of the world today I can understand this. That said experience has shown me that nothing you are going to say that is professional in manner is going to make the situation better. Generally speaking. They are not going to pay or know an MUA, stylist, or any other similar professional They don't know any models that they can bring They likely will still try to show up with the angry gangsta boyfriend with a record Models who are professional or trying to be professional have no need of an escort They will be more trouble than they are worth All of the above was recently told to me from several young models I have worked with recently. It is the same thing models have repeatedly told me over the years. This is why I am glad I listened to them from the beginning. Aug 08 14 06:06 pm Link Cherrystone wrote: -that covers it all. Aug 08 14 07:21 pm Link AJScalzitti wrote: +1 anyone I know (male or female) would be slightly creeped out by that response Aug 08 14 08:10 pm Link Muskopf Photography wrote: Well, if that's your policy, then stick to it. Established photographers like you and I who have shot with a lot of models here on MM alone is proof alone that we are not some evil person wanting to do harm to the models. I mean, there is an exception to my rule of no escorts and that is if the model is under 18, and that has only happened twice. One other time the model, who actually is a great model, and established here on MM, does great work, and if anybody wants, I'd give her a rave review, but she has a nerve condition to where she cannot walk and needed an assistant, which really is a different story, and in a case like that, I can make an exception. Aug 08 14 09:50 pm Link The model was uncomfortable because you imposed restrictions on her related to her need for safety. I find that by simply leaving the escort option open, models are less likely to want to bring an escort. My profile states: >I will allow models to bring an escort (they may have to sit in the car, my studio is very small. Bring a laptop and I will provide an extension cord and wifi) >I will meet you for coffee before a shoot so you can see I’m not a creep I have never had a model bring an escort. I have met one model for coffee before a shoot. I think that in your case, it was simply laziness on the part of the model. They should have checked references rather than balked at the escort restriction. Cheers! Noah Aug 09 14 01:01 am Link As a Brit, this thread is quite funny... ...for us, Escort means prostitute :-) Aug 09 14 02:26 am Link Offer to meet her in person in a public place first and if she has an escort say he can deliver her to the door and then pick her after the shoot. Aug 09 14 02:35 am Link |
