Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 26342
Portland, Oregon, US
Ex-student in Rutgers webcam case gets 30 days On one hand, I think he got off light. On the other hand, ... he's had to deal with this case for a long time, ... he probably has very large legal fees, ... he is exposed to a wrongful death civil suit. So, I guess it's time to move on.
Photographer
Yves Duchamp- Homme
Posts: 3212
Virginia Beach, Virginia, US
I hope the family nails his ass in civil court.
Photographer
Reflected
Posts: 16390
New York, New York, US
Shon D.- Homme wrote:
I hope the family nails his ass in civil court. Which, as justice goes, would be poetic.
I doubt he'll see the inside of a jail cell, not for a day of the 30.
A more accurate summary than the one linked in the OP:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18149395
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 33877
Arcata, California, US
The sentence was way too lenient, but there is the inevitable civil suit. And if there's any poetic justice in this universe, the guy'll be the dream date of his cell block while he's doing his thirty days.
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US
A college prank. The guy goes and kills himself days later but doesn't say why. He should not be held responsible cause the guy killed himself for if he is why isn't he held responsible for the other guy not doing anything... the other guy on the video? The other guy didn't kill himself so apparently whatever was video taped wasn't some life threatening situation that if happened to anyone they would kill themselves.
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 33877
Arcata, California, US
The Art of Churchwell wrote:
A college prank. The guy goes and kills himself days later but doesn't say why. He should not be held responsible cause the guy killed himself for if he is why isn't he held responsible for the other guy not doing anything... the other guy on the video? The other guy didn't kill himself so apparently whatever was video taped wasn't some life threatening situation that if happened to anyone they would kill themselves. Outing a kid who didn't want to be outed... That's a one hell of a "prank."
Photographer
Yves Duchamp- Homme
Posts: 3212
Virginia Beach, Virginia, US
The Art of Churchwell wrote:
A college prank. The guy goes and kills himself days later but doesn't say why. He should not be held responsible cause the guy killed himself for if he is why isn't he held responsible for the other guy not doing anything... the other guy on the video? The other guy didn't kill himself so apparently whatever was video taped wasn't some life threatening situation that if happened to anyone they would kill themselves. What kind of "logic" is that?
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US
Orca Bay Images wrote:
Outing a kid who didn't want to be outed... That's a one hell of a "prank." The other kid was "outed" also. He is alive and well. he isn't taking anyone to court for a college prank. No one knows why days later a kid kills himself.
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 33877
Arcata, California, US
The Art of Churchwell wrote:
The guy goes and kills himself days later but doesn't say why. He kills himself days after being outed and your defense is that the kid didn't leave a suicide note?
What kind of moron would out his roommate to the world and not think something bad might come of it?
He should not be held responsible cause the guy killed himself for if he is why isn't he held responsible for the other guy not doing anything... the other guy on the video? That's some fucked-up attempt at logic there, Art.
He *would* be held responsible for the other guy if the other guy had killed himself over the outing. Who knows? Maybe the other guy was already out.
Photographer
-Ira
Posts: 2191
New York, New York, US
The Art of Churchwell wrote:
The other kid was "outed" also. He is alive and well. he isn't taking anyone to court for a college prank. No one knows why days later a kid kills himself. "Ravi was not charged in Clementi's death."
"Ravi was convicted of all 15 charges against him, including invasion of privacy, anti-gay intimidation, and trying to cover his tracks by destroying text messages and tweets and tampering with a witness."
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 33877
Arcata, California, US
The Art of Churchwell wrote:
No one knows why days later a kid kills himself. You can't possibly be that dense. This has to be a joke.
Model
-Nicole-
Posts: 19211
Madison, Wisconsin, US
The Art of Churchwell wrote:
The other kid was "outed" also. He is alive and well. he isn't taking anyone to court for a college prank. No one knows why days later a kid kills himself. I'm assuming he killed himself because he was not open with his lifestyle and didn't want it broadcasted? Felt betrayed that someone would violate his trust and privacy? Fell into a depression he couldn't cope with?
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US
IraMonko wrote:
"Ravi was not charged in Clementi's death."
"Ravi was convicted of all 15 charges against him, including invasion of privacy, anti-gay intimidation, and trying to cover his tracks by destroying text messages and tweets and tampering with a witness." oh. exactly. Thank you.
Photographer
Chuckarelei
Posts: 11271
Seattle, Washington, US
I hope he will end up in the gay row. Let him be the bitch of some hairy dudes for a month.
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US
-Nicole- wrote:
I'm assuming he killed himself because he was not open with his lifestyle and didn't want it broadcasted? Felt betrayed that someone would violate his trust and privacy? Fell into a depression he couldn't cope with? The other guy was in the video too
Model
K Allende
Posts: 14172
Columbus, Ohio, US
The Art of Churchwell wrote:
A college prank. The guy goes and kills himself days later but doesn't say why. He should not be held responsible cause the guy killed himself for if he is why isn't he held responsible for the other guy not doing anything... the other guy on the video? The other guy didn't kill himself so apparently whatever was video taped wasn't some life threatening situation that if happened to anyone they would kill themselves. Spying on someone when they have no knowledge of it and then outing them is not a prank.
The sooner people realize the cruelty behind such an act, the better off people will be. I am sick and tired of the excuses people make for people being cruel, it's not boys being boys or a light-hearted college prank. It's people being cruel, simple as that. Being traumatized because someone else thought it was funny and then killing yourself because of the emotional trauma isn't your fault. It's the people who subjected you to their own cruel will's fault. They had absolutely no right to do such a thing to the young man, and the fact that they even might have thought it was a funny prank just shows their own mental problems.
We need to be teaching our children that this sort of thing is never funny so that something like this doesn't happen again instead of writing it off with excuses that actually don't truly excuse cruelty, even more so when someone is over 18 and should know better than to be so cruel. In the eyes of the law, there needs to be larger consequences for such crimes as this that lead to extreme emotional trauma of another person because you felt the right to subject them to your will.
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US
Orca Bay Images wrote:
He kills himself days after being outed and your defense is that the kid didn't leave a suicide note?
What kind of moron would out his roommate to the world and not think something bad might come of it? You need to watch Youtube a bit more.
Photographer
Erick Prince
Posts: 3457
Austin, Texas, US
The Art of Churchwell wrote:
The other kid was "outed" also. He is alive and well. he isn't taking anyone to court for a college prank. No one knows why days later a kid kills himself. Let it go man. This isn't the crowd. Trust me.
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US
Erick Prince wrote:
Let it go man. This isn't the crowd. Trust me. gotcha! 
Model
K Allende
Posts: 14172
Columbus, Ohio, US
Shon D.- Homme wrote:
What kind of "logic" is that? The logic of someone who thinks it's okay to play cruel "jokes" on LGBT people that invade their privacy and often result in emotional trauma, most likely.
Model
-Nicole-
Posts: 19211
Madison, Wisconsin, US
The Art of Churchwell wrote:
The other guy was in the video too So?
Maybe he was out. Maybe it wasn't a big deal. Maybe he didn't suffer from depression.
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 54196
Buena Park, California, US
He should be held liable for whatever laws there are against unauthorized whatever it is he did. He wasn't charged with murder and as far a civil suit...that will depend on the jury but I suspect the family will lose their lawsuit.
30 days seems VERY lenient, but I'd want to see how much time people normally spend in doing what he's done which I'm sure happens a lot more frequently than we'd care to know.
While tragic, I don't see how we should legally hold people responsible for the suicide of others. The guy's an asshole, that's for sure.
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 54196
Buena Park, California, US
IraMonko wrote:
"Ravi was not charged in Clementi's death."
"Ravi was convicted of all 15 charges against him, including invasion of privacy, anti-gay intimidation, and trying to cover his tracks by destroying text messages and tweets and tampering with a witness." that only gets 30 days? tampering with a witness alone I'd throw 6 to 12 months at him. Plus a nice fine.
Model
K Allende
Posts: 14172
Columbus, Ohio, US
Christopher Hartman wrote:
that only gets 30 days? tampering with a witness alone I'd throw 6 to 12 months at him. Plus a nice fine. I'm dumbfounded by it.
Model
Cait Chan
Posts: 6272
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
The Art of Churchwell wrote:
The other guy was in the video too Why do you keep saying this??
Everyone copes with things differently. Because the other kid didn't kill himself means NOTHING, when talking about what ANDREW felt to take his own life.
Some people kill themselves after dealing with trauma, embarrassment, or depression. Most don't. This is what makes suicide a tragedy because some people in certain situations feel there is no other way out.
Please don't pretend you don't already know this. You're being ridiculous.
Photographer
Reflected
Posts: 16390
New York, New York, US
Cait Chan wrote:
Why do you keep saying this??
Everyone copes with things differently. Because the other kid didn't kill himself means NOTHING, when talking about what ANDREW felt to take his own life.
Some people kill themselves after dealing with trauma, embarrassment, or depression. Most don't. This is what makes suicide a tragedy because some people in certain situations feel there is no other way out.
Please don't pretend you don't already know this. You're being ridiculous. Who is Andrew?
Model
Cait Chan
Posts: 6272
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Reflected wrote:
Who is Andrew? Oh wow super weird. I have a friend Andrew with the same last name Totally meant Tyler. Didn't even realize i wrote that
Model
--Ishtar--
Posts: 1254
Heerlen, Limburg, Netherlands
Photographer
Stay Puft
Posts: 2413
Ofu, Manu'a, American Samoa
I agree that he was guilty of the charges he was convicted of, and for that he should be, and is being punished.
That said, I am always a bit uncomfortable with the idea that someone "caused" someone else to commit suicide. It seems like people are making these arguments more and more about bullies, and while I hate bullying, it's hard for me to say that a bully should be held responsible for a suicide (this one or any other).
The suicide victim might have had many larger issues that were bothering them more, perhaps they were already depressed and suicidal, and the bully might have been no big deal to them in their personal view. Blaming the bully is necessarily circumstantial, and I think going down that road and putting people in prison for 'murder' based on a "bullying induced suicide" theory is very problematic.
But that didn't happen here, so I have no problem with this finding. Perhaps the sentence could have been longer.
Photographer
Legacys 7
Posts: 33899
San Francisco, California, US
The Art of Churchwell wrote:
The other kid was "outed" also. He is alive and well. he isn't taking anyone to court for a college prank. No one knows why days later a kid kills himself. Seriously? Calling this a college prank is playing his action's down. Would you call it a prank if someone recorded you and your woman doing the nasty or you and some guy doing the nasty where it end up online a "prank"? Dude, that's your privacy that is invaded. If you jack off, that's your business. No one is obligated to have the rest of the world see you in your intimate moment unless you give consent.
Photographer
Legacys 7
Posts: 33899
San Francisco, California, US
--Ishtar-- wrote:
I suspect our defendant may well be a latent gay himself. Not yet having accepted this side of himself, he decides to spy on his roommate as a 'prank'. Just my theory here. Yeap. When I hear people do that or are quick to make similar actions such as calling someone gay on the defense, chances are great that they're in the closet.
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US
Hey, the dude got 30 days for leaving the webcam on. Good enough. I say lets turn this around for a second. lets say the guy didn't kill himself but killed the guy with the webcam. Would you all be saying, "It's ok he did that he was outed without knowing it. So it's not his responsibly?" No you would hold him responsible for his own actions and killing himself was his own action not the action of the roommate. Had the roommate known that his actions was going to cause someone death then you can say he was responsible and did it with intent. Otherwise go to youtube and see lots of things people webcam without the other person knowledge.
So it's ok if you wanna bash me in anger cause you think someone got off light but I'm not the judge or jury that did it. The other guy was on video too and didn't kill himself so apparently webcamming your roommate having sex does not lead to suicide.
Photographer
Yves Duchamp- Homme
Posts: 3212
Virginia Beach, Virginia, US
The Art of Churchwell wrote:
Hey, the dude got 30 days for leaving the webcam on. Good enough. I say lets turn this around for a second. lets say the guy didn't kill himself but killed the guy with the webcam. Would you all be saying, "It's ok he did that he was outed without knowing it. So it's not his responsibly?" No you would hold him responsible for his own actions and killing himself was his own action not the action of the roommate. Had the roommate known that his actions was going to cause someone death then you can say he was responsible and did it with intent. Otherwise go to youtube and see lots of things people webcam without the other person knowledge.
So it's ok if you wanna bash me in anger cause you think someone got off light but I'm not the judge or jury that did it. The other guy was on video too and didn't kill himself so apparently webcamming your roommate having sex does not lead to suicide. Yeah, no. That's not the same at all. This isn't about us being "angry." This is about you and your faulty logic. We don't know ANYTHING about the other man in the video. Did he attend the same school? Was the video broadcast to anyone that he knew? Was he out of the closet? Was he suffering from depression? Etc etc etc?
Tyler Clementi is dead because he was pushed to the edge by Dharun Ravi's actions. This was not a "prank." I have no idea why people are defending someone who recorded someone else having sex and broadcast it over the web. Even if you take his being gay (and the outing and all of that) out of the equation, you still cannot convince me that this wasn't wrong.
Photographer
Yves Duchamp- Homme
Posts: 3212
Virginia Beach, Virginia, US
And I still hope that Clementi's family takes his ass to the cleaners in civil court.
Photographer
netmodel
Posts: 6786
Austin, Texas, US
He's not on trial for his suicide, you know that?
Ravi was convicted in March of invasion of privacy, bias intimidation on the basis of sexual orientation — an offense widely referred to as a hate crime — and trying to cover his tracks by destroying text messages and tweets and tampering with a witness.
That's all there is. He is NOT responsible for his suicide (and why should anyone be responsible for someone's suicide?!).
Why is he getting prison where most would just serve probation? Simple. The last sentence said, "Before the trial, prosecutors had offered Ravi a plea bargain that called for no prison time. He turned it down."
He blew his chance.
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US
netmodel wrote:
He's not on trial for his suicide, you know that?
Ravi was convicted in March of invasion of privacy, bias intimidation on the basis of sexual orientation — an offense widely referred to as a hate crime — and trying to cover his tracks by destroying text messages and tweets and tampering with a witness.
That's all there is. He is NOT responsible for his suicide (and why should anyone be responsible for someone's suicide?!).
Why is he getting prison where most would just serve probation? Simple. The last sentence said, "Before the trial, prosecutors had offered Ravi a plea bargain that called for no prison time. He turned it down."
He blew his chance. Perfectly said.
Photographer
Legacys 7
Posts: 33899
San Francisco, California, US
The Art of Churchwell wrote:
Hey, the dude got 30 days for leaving the webcam on. Good enough. I say lets turn this around for a second. lets say the guy didn't kill himself but killed the guy with the webcam. Would you all be saying, "It's ok he did that he was outed without knowing it. So it's not his responsibly?" No you would hold him responsible for his own actions and killing himself was his own action not the action of the roommate. Had the roommate known that his actions was going to cause someone death then you can say he was responsible and did it with intent. Otherwise go to youtube and see lots of things people webcam without the other person knowledge.
So it's ok if you wanna bash me in anger cause you think someone got off light but I'm not the judge or jury that did it. The other guy was on video too and didn't kill himself so apparently webcamming your roommate having sex does not lead to suicide. Bashing you? Lol. No, I'm zooming in on the part where you played this down as a simple college prank. Again, that's invasion of your privacy. For me it's not about the guy being gay. It's about your right to having privacy. Again, if this were you and your lady in the heat of moment being broadcast across the internet for everyone else to see without your consent, you'd call that a prank?
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US
Legacys 7 wrote:
Bashing you? Lol. No, I'm zooming in on the part where you played this down as a simple college prank. Again, that's invasion of your privacy. For me it's not about the guy being gay. It's about your right to having privacy. Again, if this were you and your lady in the heat of moment being broadcast across the internet for everyone else to see without your consent, you'd call that a prank? Yes and hope it would make us money. You all got to check out Youtube. remember there was the other guy in the video too. He's not complaining.
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