Coyote Creations NW wrote:
Have just a few weeks shooting with D600.  Was using crop sensor backs previously.  In studio, the 1/200 sync has had essentially no impact.  On location, it does come into play.  With very bright sky in background and 1/200 limit, I have to close apeture a lot to get sky properly exposed, which means more strobe power to get subject properly lit.  I live in the northwest where the great waterfalls are a mile or two hike in.  Every strobe and battery counts when you have to pack it in.  On the other hand, the sky is rarely bright in Washington and the low light capabilities ley me shoot in deep shade under forest canopy with ambient light much more often.  I guess my point is choosing a camera back is very personal.  Your shooting style will determine which is best.  For me D600 was a great choice and I still have gas money to get to great locations.

Btw, good thread.  Less bs than most.  Thanks

Thanks for sharing your experience with us.   What lenses are working well for you?  Have you considered a ND filter instead of stopping down your aperture?

Scott

Fotografica Gregor wrote:
Well I am evaluating a Nikon D600 as a back up to my existing D800 / D3x.

I have a publication with it that just came out today and was shot last week -  details on my facebook page -

I will have a few images from the series on my facebook page over the next few days. 

FWIW these were shot with the 35mm f1.4G lens as well....

Overall impressions up to this point?
Issues?
Anything that would be a dealbreaker?

Scott

Rich Arnold Photography wrote:
Compute power for the D800 files has been mentioned but let me give you my experience with the D800. My D700 created 12 MB Raw files, the D800 are 40 MB Raw. Add layers in CS6 to retouch, maybe a Nik filter layer and I had a 2.5 GB file.

The D800 files crushed my 24" Dual Core iMac with 8 GB's of Ram. It was so slow it became unbearable. I ended up getting a 27" Quad core iMac with 32 GB's of Ram. That did the trick. But it added an extra $2500 to the camera price.

So factor this into your equation. These RAW files after retouch are going to be BIG. Make sure your PC can handle it.

Thanks for adding to that. I think he may be alrighty if he goes with the D600 - maybe - but the D800 no way jose   I usually plan the when I prolly-what of my next camera body in September. This year, I considered the D800 vs the D4 (which suits my style far better anyhoo). After considering computing-power (I have 4GB mem w/ a dual-core system similar to the OP's...HP-version), I'm gonna hold-off and be a tight prick for another year. Then buy both a new backup as well as a D4. Between the entry-level D600 and the slow and huge-filed D800, the money I'll save on the body and XQD card(s) & reader I'd lose plus plus on time-spent/computing upgrades/etc   (I'm not a Fashion Photographer, nor do I shoot Fine Art to sell images in a gallery or wtvr)

Hopefully my rambling there serves to provide the perspectives of someone else who considered the D800 (I immediately dismissed the D600, since an entry-level cam is not a reliable purchase).

IMHO alone, as always;

Ðanny
http://www.dbiphotography.com (Blog On Site) 

JSB Fine Art Photo wrote:
Overall impressions up to this point?
Issues?
Anything that would be a dealbreaker?

Scott

Since I use the D7000 for a carry around camera for informal nature and wildlife, the operational feel of the D600 is familiar.  Definitely pro-sumer but certainly responsive enough and nothing to hold back anyone familiar with Nikon camera menu structures etc.

The body is bigger than the D7000 so I don't have the problem of hitting the DOF preview button when trying to shoot that was an issue for me with the D7000.  The D600 does feel tiny in my hands compared to the D700/800.  I don't feel the need for the Nikon battery grip on the D700/800 but it does improve the feel of the D600 and is
remarkably light even in this configuration.

For studio work the biggest annoyance is the lack of ability to lock the aperture and shutter speed settings so they are not accidentally changed with unintended manipulation of the control wheels.  Every other Fn function from the previous cameras is available but this one. Seems like an intentional omission on Nikon's part to further distinguish this from their semi - professional bodies.

Image quality is lovely - DR is very good but I have a hard time believing the claims made for it - it does have problems capturing both flat black and medium bright white in the same frame in colour. The D3x D700 and D800 seem better to me in this respect.

The images seem just a bit flat to me compared to those from the D3x but that camera produces a wonderful 3D effect not quite achieved by the D800 either.  But I've only shot the D600 for two fashion stories - this initial impression may be disproved over time. 

There is no PC terminal.  In order to use the camera with my AB800R ring light I have to attach the Nikon AS-15 hot shoe to PC terminal adapter.

All of that is nitpicking really - the images from the editorial I shot look smashing in print.   Some credit has to go to the Nikon 35mm f1.4G in this respect as well.

BTW the editorial just printed was shot in a lovely old Victorian home in a mix of late daylight coming in through windows, ambient from various old fixtures and chandeliers, and fill from Nikon SB800s.  I wanted to retain and emphasize as much of the ambient light character as
possible while filling shadows on the model and bumping up the contrast ratio a bit.  Not wanting to shoot slow shutter speeds below 1/60, I wound up shooting this editorial at ISO 1250 and ISO 1600. The results were super clean, as good an ISO performance as I've seen in similar conditions.

I will probably keep the D600 as a backup and second operating camera when I want to deploy two at once - that is the reason I am evaluating it. I have since shot another studio editorial using both the D800 and D600 with different lenses.  When evaluating the images I don't see the D600
giving up anything noticeable in quality to the D800 images, and the ISO performance of the D600 is noticeably superior...

Initial impressions only, amenable to change over time with more experience with the D600 camera, with the exception of course of the lack of the ability to program the Fn button as a shutter speed and / or aperture lock.

Rich Arnold Photography wrote:
Compute power for the D800 files has been mentioned but let me give you my experience with the D800. My D700 created 12 MB Raw files, the D800 are 40 MB Raw. Add layers in CS6 to retouch, maybe a Nik filter layer and I had a 2.5 GB file.

The D800 files crushed my 24" Dual Core iMac with 8 GB's of Ram. It was so slow it became unbearable. I ended up getting a 27" Quad core iMac with 32 GB's of Ram. That did the trick. But it added an extra $2500 to the camera price.

So factor this into your equation. These RAW files after retouch are going to be BIG. Make sure your PC can handle it.

My main computer is an i7 /960 at 3.2ghz with 12gb RAM.  I see no difference whatsoever between performance with 24mp files from the D3x / D600 and 36mp files from the D800 and little from 12mp and 16pm files.

My laptop with an older i7 laptop chip at 2.0ghz and 8gb RAM has performance hard to distinguish in these same respects.

The only change I needed to make was to use a USB3.0 card reader....

Rich Arnold Photography wrote:
Compute power for the D800 files has been mentioned but let me give you my experience with the D800. My D700 created 12 MB Raw files, the D800 are 40 MB Raw. Add layers in CS6 to retouch, maybe a Nik filter layer and I had a 2.5 GB file.

The D800 files crushed my 24" Dual Core iMac with 8 GB's of Ram. It was so slow it became unbearable. I ended up getting a 27" Quad core iMac with 32 GB's of Ram. That did the trick. But it added an extra $2500 to the camera price.

So factor this into your equation. These RAW files after retouch are going to be BIG. Make sure your PC can handle it.

I use Nikon CNX2 to PP my RAW files.  Is CNX2 as much of a computer hog as CS6?

Scott

DBIphotography Toronto wrote:

Thanks for adding to that. I think he may be alrighty if he goes with the D600 - maybe - but the D800 no way jose   I usually plan the when I prolly-what of my next camera body in September. This year, I considered the D800 vs the D4 (which suits my style far better anyhoo). After considering computing-power (I have 4GB mem w/ a dual-core system similar to the OP's...HP-version), I'm gonna hold-off and be a tight prick for another year. Then buy both a new backup as well as a D4. Between the entry-level D600 and the slow and huge-filed D800, the money I'll save on the body and XQD card(s) & reader I'd lose plus plus on time-spent/computing upgrades/etc   (I'm not a Fashion Photographer, nor do I shoot Fine Art to sell images in a gallery or wtvr)

Hopefully my rambling there serves to provide the perspectives of someone else who considered the D800 (I immediately dismissed the D600, since an entry-level cam is not a reliable purchase).

IMHO alone, as always;

Ðanny
http://www.dbiphotography.com (Blog On Site) 

Thanks Danny I appreciate your insight and advice.

Scott

Fotografica Gregor wrote:

Since I use the D7000 for a carry around camera for informal nature and wildlife, the operational feel of the D600 is familiar.  Definitely pro-sumer but certainly responsive enough and nothing to hold back anyone familiar with Nikon camera menu structures etc.

The body is bigger than the D7000 so I don't have the problem of hitting the DOF preview button when trying to shoot that was an issue for me with the D7000.  The D600 does feel tiny in my hands compared to the D700/800.  I don't feel the need for the Nikon battery grip on the D700/800 but it does improve the feel of the D600 and is
remarkably light even in this configuration.

For studio work the biggest annoyance is the lack of ability to lock the aperture and shutter speed settings so they are not accidentally changed with unintended manipulation of the control wheels.  Every other Fn function from the previous cameras is available but this one. Seems like an intentional omission on Nikon's part to further distinguish this from their semi - professional bodies.

Image quality is lovely - DR is very good but I have a hard time believing the claims made for it - it does have problems capturing both flat black and medium bright white in the same frame in colour. The D3x D700 and D800 seem better to me in this respect.

The images seem just a bit flat to me compared to those from the D3x but that camera produces a wonderful 3D effect not quite achieved by the D800 either.  But I've only shot the D600 for two fashion stories - this initial impression may be disproved over time. 

There is no PC terminal.  In order to use the camera with my AB800R ring light I have to attach the Nikon AS-15 hot shoe to PC terminal adapter.

All of that is nitpicking really - the images from the editorial I shot look smashing in print.   Some credit has to go to the Nikon 35mm f1.4G in this respect as well.

BTW the editorial just printed was shot in a lovely old Victorian home in a mix of late daylight coming in through windows, ambient from various old fixtures and chandeliers, and fill from Nikon SB800s.  I wanted to retain and emphasize as much of the ambient light character as
possible while filling shadows on the model and bumping up the contrast ratio a bit.  Not wanting to shoot slow shutter speeds below 1/60, I wound up shooting this editorial at ISO 1250 and ISO 1600. The results were super clean, as good an ISO performance as I've seen in similar conditions.

I will probably keep the D600 as a backup and second operating camera when I want to deploy two at once - that is the reason I am evaluating it. I have since shot another studio editorial using both the D800 and D600 with different lenses.  When evaluating the images I don't see the D600
giving up anything noticeable in quality to the D800 images, and the ISO performance of the D600 is noticeably superior...

Initial impressions only, amenable to change over time with more experience with the D600 camera, with the exception of course of the lack of the ability to program the Fn button as a shutter speed and / or aperture lock.

Excellent breakdown of your expreience.  Thank you.

Scott

Fotografica Gregor wrote:

My main computer is an i7 /960 at 3.2ghz with 12gb RAM.  I see no difference whatsoever between performance with 24mp files from the D3x / D600 and 36mp files from the D800 and little from 12mp and 16pm files.

My laptop with an older i7 laptop chip at 2.0ghz and 8gb RAM has performance hard to distinguish in these same respects.

The only change I needed to make was to use a USB3.0 card reader....

Thanks again.

Scott

SPierce Photography wrote:
I, too, also haven't had any problems with my computer processing the D800's files- all I had to do was upgrade to LR 4 and CS 6. I bought a few 3TB hard drives for back ups- and upgraded the RAM (from 2GB to 4GB) and that's been it. I've encountered no problems and my older iMac can handle it like a champ.

The one thing I do want to ask- is anyone with problems still using an older version of Lightroom? Because I had a TON of trouble with it before I upgraded, even with the files from my D80 the thing was a nightmare. Both LR and PS are memory hogs, though, so careful if you have them open at the same time + a bunch of extra programs too.

Thanks Stephanie.  Once again I appreciate it.

Scott

JSB Fine Art Photo wrote:
I will advise everyone of my decision as soon as I order the camera. 

I thank all of you for your help and guidance.

Scott

good luck ! I'm sure that, whichever one you pick up, it will work out wonderfully for you!

SPierce Photography wrote:

good luck ! I'm sure that, whichever one you pick up, it will work out wonderfully for you!

Thank you for the help and for the images you provided.

Scott

Just Shoot Me Photograp wrote:
Stop worrying about the latest and greatest camera out there they all do the same thing take pictures.Sure some have more features then others. You should invest in workshops to make you a better photographer.You need to learn more about lighting,posing,depth of field,shutter speed,ISO, composition and marketing/website. You can have all this nice gear but if you don't have paying clients it is useless. The naked girls you photograph don't know the difference between a 10mp or a 36 mp camera or if your shooting at 1/15 or 1/4000 of a sec.unless your shooting sports you really don't need anything over 1/500 of a sec.Learn the craft of photography and don't worry about the gear.
Check out http://www.creativelive.com they have free online workshops about every other week of some of the top photographers in the country teaching.

You have to ask yourself what do you want to shoot.If you just want to do models for there portfolio then the d7000 would be fine.If you want to shoot for magazines or a ad agent then go with a better camera like the d800.
You impress people with your work not the camera your shooting.I have taken some pictures with the iphone people say wow must have a really good camera nope just a iPhone

Just some friendly advice.

I appreciate the advice.  I am moving from nudes to fashion thus the research in new gear.

Scott

JSB Fine Art Photo wrote:
I am moving from a Nikon D60 to a combination of either a D800 or D600 with a D7000 as a backup body.  I mostly shoot fashion and portraits.  I don't shoot studio, mostly location and shows (runway). I plan on growing my business and I need to invest in tools that will meet my needs over a period of years.  I have a SB-600 for the D7000 and I will invest in a SB-910 for the D800 or a SB-700 for the D600.  I will use a battery grip on all bodies.

I always shoot in RAW.  Post is done with Nikon NX2.

Glass will be:

Nikon 50mm f/1.4G

Nikon 105 f/2.8 VR

Nikon 70-300 VR

Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 VC

Will the D600's limitation of 1/4000 second shutter speed impact well lit outdoor shots when using lenses wide open?  How much of a real issue is over exposure with this camera?

Will the 1/200 flash sync cause issues with normal runway shots?

Does the D800's resolution give it a noticable image quality jump over the D600 when printing relatively large or will 24MP be more than needed for high quality print work for magazines and poster sized prints?

I appreciate your time and assistance.

Scott

I'd honestly just stay with the D7000 for a while, it's a great camera and can do great things. The extra $2000-3000 you've just saved can be put into lights, renting a studio, different lenses, and a bunch of stuff.

If you're still set on having a 600 or 800 then I'd just suggest saving the money and putting that towards something else, unless a grand isn't a lot to you.

I'm not really a dof person, and I don't think I've ever really used anything over 1/2000th shutter speed, so I wouldn't consider the 600 as being limited at all.

1/200 flash on runway, more than likely not, however if you have to use flash at a "runway event" then it's not a real fashion show and I wouldn't worry if my shots were blurry or not.

My D2x and D300 are imported at 17mp for the stuff I do, and I can go all day printing 19x20's without much attention, and more than likely twice that with a little more attention. I think that either way you should be more than fine, and if you ever run into a client who demands more than they will also have a budget for renting something bigger.

As far as lenses, and to give away a big secret I have, my main long studio lens is a old 80-200 f4 push pull. It was very cheap, it's very very sharp, and it's not as heavy as the 2.8 versions. If for nothing else I'd pick one up for shits and giggles.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/80200f4ais.htm



Just my opinion and I'm not a big dof guy or mp guy or new equipment guy, so take what I say with a grain of salt.


Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Fotografica Gregor wrote:
My main computer is an i7 /960 at 3.2ghz with 12gb RAM.  I see no difference whatsoever between performance with 24mp files from the D3x / D600 and 36mp files from the D800 and little from 12mp and 16pm files.

My laptop with an older i7 laptop chip at 2.0ghz and 8gb RAM has performance hard to distinguish in these same respects.

The only change I needed to make was to use a USB3.0 card reader....

That's good to know as my computer has the same specs. My D700 files sometimes crash in Photoshop with multiple layers now. I'm trying to imagine what the D800 will do if I pick that up.

Brian Hillburn wrote:

That's good to know as my computer has the same specs. My D700 files sometimes crash in Photoshop with multiple layers now. I'm trying to imagine what the D800 will do if I pick that up.

Smoke check your computer  LOL 

Scott

JSB Fine Art Photo wrote:

I appreciate the advice.  I am moving from nudes to fashion thus the research in new gear.

Scott

I just finished shooting Ottawa Fashion week.  Fashion weeks are often the most unpredictable events possible - and you still have to end up with Fashion images. FWIW there were no D600 shooters there, only 2 D800 shooters among the photographers in the pit. I was shooting beside one of the D800 shooters and while its impossible to see final results from the screen, its clear they were able to capture every one of the surprise challenging images.  The few that they have posted have been stellar!   If I was a Nikon shooter (I shoot Sony and Canon, for the record) I wouldnt hesitate to go for a D800 for fashion.  I know what all the tests and scores and comparisons say about ISO and this and that and I say ignore them. In the real world this camera is a stellar performer.  being a tiny bit better or worse at something than the competition is really meaningless today. 10 years ago? It probably made a lot of difference, but today? They are all more than good enough.  The differences are in how you use them, not what the sensor does. Does it allow you to make the thing you do most often go on a wheel or button or does it force you to dive into menus?  Is it balanced enough in your hands that you can use it until your eyes are blurry or do you have to put it down before? These are things that will affect the shots you get.

AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:

I just finished shooting Ottawa Fashion week.  Fashion weeks are often the most unpredictable events possible - and you still have to end up with Fashion images. FWIW there were no D600 shooters there, only 2 D800 shooters among the photographers in the pit. I was shooting beside one of the D800 shooters and while its impossible to see final results from the screen, its clear they were able to capture every one of the surprise challenging images.  The few that they have posted have been stellar!   If I was a Nikon shooter (I shoot Sony and Canon, for the record) I wouldnt hesitate to go for a D800 for fashion.  I know what all the tests and scores and comparisons say about ISO and this and that and I say ignore them. In the real world this camera is a stellar performer.  being a tiny bit better or worse at something than the competition is really meaningless today. 10 years ago? It probably made a lot of difference, but today? They are all more than good enough.  The differences are in how you use them, not what the sensor does. Does it allow you to make the thing you do most often go on a wheel or button or does it force you to dive into menus?  Is it balanced enough in your hands that you can use it until your eyes are blurry or do you have to put it down before? These are things that will affect the shots you get.

Thanks Dan.  Much appreciated Sir.  I do believe that is the direction I am heading.

Scott

AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:
I just finished shooting Ottawa Fashion week.  Fashion weeks are often the most unpredictable events possible - and you still have to end up with Fashion images. FWIW there were no D600 shooters there, only 2 D800 shooters among the photographers in the pit. I was shooting beside one of the D800 shooters and while its impossible to see final results from the screen, its clear they were able to capture every one of the surprise challenging images.  The few that they have posted have been stellar!   If I was a Nikon shooter (I shoot Sony and Canon, for the record) I wouldnt hesitate to go for a D800 for fashion.  I know what all the tests and scores and comparisons say about ISO and this and that and I say ignore them. In the real world this camera is a stellar performer.  being a tiny bit better or worse at something than the competition is really meaningless today. 10 years ago? It probably made a lot of difference, but today? They are all more than good enough.  The differences are in how you use them, not what the sensor does. Does it allow you to make the thing you do most often go on a wheel or button or does it force you to dive into menus?  Is it balanced enough in your hands that you can use it until your eyes are blurry or do you have to put it down before? These are things that will affect the shots you get.

the all-new AF module that D800/E line shares with D4 is worth every single penny imho. i have said it before and would like to say it again, if you shoot fashion, you're after details. Get D800E.

Solofotography wrote:
I was reading through the posts and maybe it's me but I hate the AF array. I did notice the OP was saying he tried out the camera but the first thing i noticed when playing with the AF was that the AF points are all clustered in the middle. I am not a focus recompose kind of photographer but was thinking that one might need to do this.

IMO, this was a deal breaker for me.

It is tight.

Scott