Amelia Talon wrote:

180 days is way too long. Within a month or two is reasonable. It's obvious he's giving his TF shoots the lowest priority, whether or not he's fully booked all the time, nothing really excuses taking a half of a year, I mean why bother taking TFs at all?

DraganSutic wrote:
Don't you mean "Why agree to do a TF with a photographer who told you up front it would take 180 days to get your pictures and then complain about it later because you didn't read the contract? ?

Except he didn't, she read it in the contract after the event. Since she already gave her time it then came down to either forced to wait the 180 days or no pics at all.

DraganSutic wrote:
Not even close ... how is it bad on both your parts? You did something without reading the contract and then signed a contract after the fact and now want something extra because you signed something without reading ... tell me would it be ok if it too him a full year instead of 180 days?

Because I did in fact inquire about the release before we shot, which also happened to be a VERY short notice shoot (I mean he called and I was there in 4 hours). He didn't have a copy. It was emailed to me a few days after the shoot. Hindsight: Obviously sign before any shots are taken. In this instance, however I was there, he was there, his workshop team was there, so we went ahead. If the contract were there, I would have read and questioned the 180 days. But it wasn't so I didn't. He didn't bring the contract, NOR bring up the fact that it would take 180 days. I did inquire about the timeframe, and he pretty much laughed. It would have been NICE and professional if at THAT point he was upfront with me. So yes, bad on both our parts.

In the end, for me: Lessons Learned:
   -Read the contract before meeting preferably
   -Give him his time, his paid work is his priority, although this was a workshop so it's not as if that wasn't paid work for him anyhow.

And please understand, before y'all think  I'm sitting here biting my nails, sweating it and going into panic mode. Or that I'm calling/emailing/texting this guy daily and harassing him. I'm NOT. I just wanted to get insight from others in the industry as to what IS and what IS NOT a normal/acceptable time frame for image turner.

Thanks everyone!

ammodphoto wrote:
So considering how great this photographer is and how much it sounded like you wanted to do a shoot with him.

If you had read the contract before shooting and knew about the 180 day wait to receive your photos.

Would you have still done the shoot or not?

Actually, I would have! It was fun and his work is amazing! According to another model who TF'ed his workshop, her images were nothing like his paid work.He didn't watermark it, either. So not only do I get to wait till May, but I have little reassurance that he'll put any time into editing my images, or that he really cared about how they were coming out during his workshop in the first place.

BUT: fingers crossed. I am an optimist.

Rachel Elizabeth B wrote:

Actually, I would have! It was fun and his work is amazing! According to another model who TF'ed his workshop, her images were nothing like his paid work.He didn't watermark it, either. So not only do I get to wait till May, but I have little reassurance that he'll put any time into editing my images, or that he really cared about how they were coming out during his workshop in the first place.

BUT: fingers crossed. I am an optimist.

That sounds like poop, I would never work with someone like that.

Rachel Elizabeth B wrote:

Yeah. I'm pretty much taking  this as a lesson learned. Don't even get in front of the camera no matter HOW excited I am that it's a famous photog, until I have READ the release and have agreed to the terms, etc. Painful lesson.

It should be painful. 31 is a little late in life to learn the lesson of reading something before you sign it.

Rachel Elizabeth B wrote:
I just wanted to get insight from others in the industry as to what IS and what IS NOT a normal/acceptable time frame for image turner.

There is no definitive answer, other than the time frame that was agreed upon.

Sand Angel Photography wrote:
If you're too busy to do that, you're shooting too much.

Exactly. And what ever has "too much" is not good.

We know that business has priority. People want give priority to what brings money and money pay bills.

But people who has nothing to do with your other business don't care about your time and money. Because of that, the photographer should make it clear before the shoot and before show any release who the work will be and how long it will take (especially when his condition is far way from the avarege or what is considered normal). It is not nice at all accept somebody "help" and after he got what he wanted from you he tell his exceptional conditions. And the model will have to accept after the shoot. You never should do it to somebody who trusted on your and offer you a trade or any kind of help.

I think it is very impolite and stupid when somebody tell others that they have priorities. It is the same to say, "Now That I used you I don't need you anymore so I will let you on stand by".

Nobody should be accepting any other business if they still have to pay off somebody. It doesn't evolves money but it doesn't mean you are allowed to be "irresponsible" and upset people.

Glenn Hall - Fine Art wrote:
...throw some money his way and he may indeed re-prioritize your work for early completion

Maybe he should pay a interest rate because he used the model's time and work and he is only paying it back after 180 days.

Rachel Elizabeth B wrote:
How long is too long to wait for images?  I just want to learn from this and others' experiences. Thanks.

an agency will require to see some results within a few days.  if one is freelancing and isn't getting the same then the motive is wrong...or you're just playing let's take pictures and the results are pretty much meaningless other than posting new pictures for ego whenever they may arrive.

KA Style wrote:
I think 180 days is completely reasonable for TF images. J

if i was a model and a photographer said that to me i'd say fuck you.  whole portfolios are fully updated in that time frame.  in that span whatever was delivered will be out of date.

Rachel Elizabeth B wrote:
Well put. Pretty much, yes. He and I are BOTH aware of the fact that I was not aware of the terms until 2 days after we shot. Bad on both our parts. Regardless, I feel that approaching him gently and inquiring about maybe even just a sneak peek of a few, but not all of the images agreed upon, isn't asking too much.

I thought it a bit odd the first time you said it after you forgot to bring the model release he provided because you were in such a rush.

Now, this is the second time you said it regarding a contract he provided that you failed to read.

So I have to ask, how are either of those events in any way "his bad"? Both of them resulted from a lack of organization on your part. It's not the photographers job to handhold you through the reading of a contract or remind you to bring the release he provided.

You learned not sign anything until you've actually read it. That's a great lesson. One that should be learned long before someone is in a position to sign anything...but nonetheless, a lesson learned.

But I do have to say, if you were so excited for the opportunity to shoot with this person that you lied to your employer to leave work early, raced over there forgetting the only piece of paperwork that you needed, would it really have mattered if you had known it would be 180 days before receiving the images? Yes, you want the images now. But are they going to be less valuable to you then?

180 days is a long time but I give the photographer kudos for stating it in his paperwork. Many less professional photographers would either not give a timeframe (and you'd wait) or they would say 2-4 weeks and you'd still be waiting months.

photo212grapher wrote:
If the photographer claims to not have a release ready before the shoot, red flags should go up, especially if shooting at his studio.

Maybe I'm wrong but I got the impression this photographer provided the model with the release in advance of the shoot. But in her rush to leave work, and pack up her closet to get to the shoot, forgot the release.

Image K wrote:
There is no definitive answer, other than the time frame that was agreed upon.

This.

I generally try to post a couple of 'previews' the day of the shoot or the day after, but after that it all depends on what else I have going on. I don't make any foolish promises beforehand though and if somebody asks I say "up to 3 months" to cover myself. It's not usually that long of course, but sometimes life - or paid work - have to come first.




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Marcio Faustino Santos wrote:
I as a photographer don't understand photographers who take too long to delivery images.

Seriously, I shoot with film negatives and I never take more than 5 days to delivery the results. Very often I delivery it on the next day or on the day after. And often, if I shoot in the morning and have the afternoon free, I will delivery the images on the same day at night.

And I take much more time than digital photographers to see the results, because I have develop the negatives, dry it, scan or traditionally print it, while digital photographers just have to plug a cable from the camera into a computer and work on it.

I can't start any other thing before fully finish a photo projects. Because if I leave it for later I become frustrated and I don't feel the same enthusiasm to work on old stuff.

I just don't understand why some photographers take months. It seems they care more about playing with their cameras than about the result. To me, if it is not about the final result I feel I am waisting my time.

While some of what you say can be seen as true, there is a whole other side to digital. None of pictures are just plonked out the camera and I have a digital camera.

Rachel Elizabeth B wrote:

Because I did in fact inquire about the release before we shot, which also happened to be a VERY short notice shoot (I mean he called and I was there in 4 hours). He didn't have a copy. It was emailed to me a few days after the shoot. Hindsight: Obviously sign before any shots are taken. In this instance, however I was there, he was there, his workshop team was there, so we went ahead. If the contract were there, I would have read and questioned the 180 days. But it wasn't so I didn't. He didn't bring the contract, NOR bring up the fact that it would take 180 days. I did inquire about the timeframe, and he pretty much laughed. It would have been NICE and professional if at THAT point he was upfront with me. So yes, bad on both our parts.

In the end, for me: Lessons Learned:
   -Read the contract before meeting preferably
   -Give him his time, his paid work is his priority, although this was a workshop so it's not as if that wasn't paid work for him anyhow.

And please understand, before y'all think  I'm sitting here biting my nails, sweating it and going into panic mode. Or that I'm calling/emailing/texting this guy daily and harassing him. I'm NOT. I just wanted to get insight from others in the industry as to what IS and what IS NOT a normal/acceptable time frame for image turner.

Thanks everyone!

Got to admit that's a bit sneaky on his part if he didn't let you see a release beforehand.  Fingers crossed the pics turn up retouched.