MaL kap wrote:

Many Many thanks to Michael for Hosting!!!
The batteries on the receiver are 2 rechargable AAA batteries always charged to full power. As for the trigger- (as you know since you have neewer) it is a tricky battery- do not know the size.. And to change it you have to practically brake the trigger and then put it back I have changed it though.. But you are right when I put the fully charged batteries on the receiver there is a bit of a difference - the curtain is much lighter- but the discoloration is still there...

to be honest I have no clue how well the Neewer triggers work.  They could be the problem. I have so many trigger receiver pairs lying around I never know which ones I'm working with.  If I grab one and it fails to fire when I test it I just assume batteries have failed and grab another set.  Most don't have any writing on them other than an on/off indication on the switch.  If you have a chance, try a pair from someone else.  I'm not sure what you mean by lighter?  it should be a very  black band or nothing at all.  if you can post an example of this 'lighter' it would be useful. It does not have to be high-resolution.

MaL kap wrote:

Many Many thanks to Michael for Hosting!!!
The batteries on the receiver are 2 rechargable AAA batteries always charged to full power. As for the trigger- (as you know since you have neewer) it is a tricky battery- do not know the size.. And to change it you have to practically brake the trigger and then put it back I have changed it though.. But you are right when I put the fully charged batteries on the receiver there is a bit of a difference - the curtain is much lighter- but the discoloration is still there...

Rechargeable AAA batteries are usually only 1.2V (for NiMH) vs. the standard 1.5V (Alkaline or Li). That may have an effect on the receivers, but would need to be tested.

GeM Photographic wrote:

Rechargeable AAA batteries are usually only 1.2V (for NiMH) vs. the standard 1.5V (Alkaline or Li). That may have an effect on the receivers, but would need to be tested.

OK! thanks I ll try this as well!

AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:

to be honest I have no clue how well the Neewer triggers work.  They could be the problem. I have so many trigger receiver pairs lying around I never know which ones I'm working with.  If I grab one and it fails to fire when I test it I just assume batteries have failed and grab another set.  Most don't have any writing on them other than an on/off indication on the switch.  If you have a chance, try a pair from someone else.  I'm not sure what you mean by lighter?  it should be a very  black band or nothing at all.  if you can post an example of this 'lighter' it would be useful. It does not have to be high-resolution.

by lighter i mean the curtain is on the very end..

I need to change the set trigger receiver. This is the only set I have.
Do you have a brand to recommend that works with Neewer? I usually buy from amazon co uk..

By the way, you have helped me a lot!

MaL kap wrote:
by lighter i mean the curtain is on the very end..

I need to change the set trigger receiver. This is the only set I have.
Do you have a brand to recommend that works with Neewer? I usually buy from amazon co uk..

By the way, you have helped me a lot!

can you post an image of this? it is curious.  if you cant post it, let me know and I'll give you an email where you can send it.

I think all brands work with most strobes. I used the Sony version of these last. i know because they are on the desk and not put away.   

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/NEW-PT-04-NE-4-C … 1e72645ca7

Neil Snape wrote:
Look up T0.1 and T 0.5 for flash duration.

For the price the specs on the Einsteins are great.

I use Broncolor Grafit which are about as good as it gets outside of the newer Scoro , yet the price of these and Profoto D8 is off-putting!

Generally I shoot at optimal color for the flash duration, which at lower power around 1/3000th  but when shooting movement sometimes I set it to the min which is 1/7500th.

I find as long as it is above 1/400th you cannot see much difference in all but the most detailed hair or water or powder projections.

the total flash duration on the OPs strobes is never longer than 1/800.  T.1 and .5 times are not published (they are not high-end) but since the total is always faster than 1/800 its not going to matter.

AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:

can you post an image of this? it is curious.  if you cant post it, let me know and I'll give you an email where you can send it.

I think all brands work with most strobes. I used the Sony version of these last. i know because they are on the desk and not put away.   

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/NEW-PT-04-NE-4-C … 1e72645ca7

but where is the receiver in this one? And what is this extra part?
I need a wireless full set, and with three receivers if possible that work with neewer. I do not mind if they are not cheap as long as they work..

MaL kap wrote:

but where is the receiver in this one? And what is this extra part?
I need a wireless full set, and with three receivers if possible that work with neewer. I do not mind if they are not cheap as long as they work..

trigger is on the left, receiver is on the right. and if you have Neewer you only need one.  Neewer have optical slaves  built in that work just fine.  I [plug in a receiver to one of the strobes that is working at the time and the rest fire. 

hmmm...is it possible this is the problem? I cant think of how it could be, but just a thought.  Anyway the PT-04 are sold as pairs, or with 2, 3 or 4 receivers.  From that vendor and  plenty others on eBay. I'm not specifically recommending them over others. I think they should all work.  But since the ones you have are essentially "free" that puts them at the bottom of the barrel and worth seeing if a replacement helps.

AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:

trigger is on the left, receiver is on the right. and if you have Neewer you only need one.  Neewer have optical slaves  built in that work just fine.  I [plug in a receiver to one of the strobes that is working at the time and the rest fire. 

hmmm...is it possible this is the problem? I cant think of how it could be, but just a thought.  Anyway the PT-04 are sold as pairs, or with 2, 3 or 4 receivers.  From that vendor and  plenty others on eBay. I'm not specifically recommending them over others. I think they should all work.  But since the ones you have are essentially "free" that puts them at the bottom of the barrel and worth seeing if a replacement helps.

I know, but they told me on the store that if I put receivers on all strobes that the time might minimize, so i should try it..
ok if in the future you try with a different brand and they work please let me know..

MaL kap wrote:

I know, but they told me on the store that if I put receivers on all strobes that the time might minimize, so i should try it..
ok if in the future you try with a different brand and they work please let me know..

for me, they all work. I'm just making random guesses at this point and my next one is interference? I have never lived where you are so I have no clue what the normal bands are for all the unlicenced spectrum use there (cell phones, cordless phones, garage remotes, etc etc).  I also don't know what the Neewer triggers operate at.  Might be worth investigating? again its just a guess. I have no idea if it is the problem.  The PT-04 have channel selectors within the 2.4Ghz band so at least it's worth a try once you get them if it doesnt work change the channel (on both).  I know the PT-04s are quite resistant to interference because they work when my wireless keyboard and mouse have problems.

AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:
for me, they all work. I'm just making random guesses at this point and my next one is interference? I have never lived where you are so I have no clue what the normal bands are for all the unlicenced spectrum use there (cell phones, cordless phones, garage remotes, etc etc).  I also don't know what the Neewer triggers operate at.  Might be worth investigating? again its just a guess. I have no idea if it is the problem.  The PT-04 have channel selectors within the 2.4Ghz band so at least it's worth a try once you get them if it doesnt work change the channel (on both).  I know the PT-04s are quite resistant to interference because they work when my wireless keyboard and mouse have problems.

so I guess this is what I should be looking for (maybe), I m guessing PT4 is the brand..

But I use strobes.. Arent these receivers for speedlights??

MaL kap wrote:
so I guess this is what I should be looking for (maybe), I m guessing PT4 is the brand..

But I use strobes.. Arent these receivers for speedlights??

they work with strobes and speedlights.  They come with cables for the strobes. all the triggers seem to come with all sorts of cables that I never use.

EDIT. that company apparently on ships with a 1/8 to PC sync cable. Let me find you a vendor that supplies more cables.

EDIT2: thats the right cable. you plug the PC sync cord into the receiver and the 3.5mm (1/8) end into the strobe.

EDIT3: I found an image of the Neewer triggers. they have 4 channels you can select. before anything I suggest trying different channels to see if you get better results?  Now that I remember what they look like I remember I gave them to someone.

AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:

they work with strobes and speedlights.  They come with cables for the strobes. all the triggers seem to come with all sorts of cables that I never use.

EDIT. that company apparently on ships with a 1/8 to PC sync cable. Let me find you a vendor that supplies more cables.

EDIT2: thats the right cable. you plug the PC sync cord into the receiver and the 3.5mm (1/8) end into the strobe.

EDIT3: I found an image of the Neewer triggers. they have 4 channels you can select. before anything I suggest trying different channels to see if you get better results?  Now that I remember what they look like I remember I gave them to someone.

thank you so much! you are a star

MaL kap wrote:

thank you so much! you are a star

NP. but we got a bit off track though. As Michael reminds, this will not solve your blur. it will only give you back your 1/160 without having the dreaded black banding.

MaL kap wrote:
ok so i did some tests and here are the results. I used two neewer  strobes on the left side one softbox above the other in lowest and highest power. I used a tripod and my 6D with the 70-100  f/2.8 IS. I see some serious motion blur. Any ideas? 1/125 shutter speed- any higher and i get a curtain..

What focal length were you at?
I don't understand why your stomach was in focus but your head/feet are OOF.  It's almost like your lens is crappy at the edges or something.
But then the dog's tail is obviously motion blurred.

If your strobe's fastest speed is 1/800, that's probably t.5. 
t.1 (roughly equivalent to shutter speed) is 1/3 that, so you're essentually shooting at 1/270ish which is wayyyy too for movement like that.  If you can get a t.5 of around 1/3000, you'll be ok.  Do you have a link to specs on your strobes?

Another thing to test if you have speedlights is to use them instead of the strobes to check the rest of your setup.  Speedlights are ultrafast compared to most strobes because they are IGBT.

SKITA Studios wrote:

What focal length were you at?
I don't understand why your stomach was in focus but your head/feet are OOF.  It's almost like your lens is crappy at the edges or something.
But then the dog's tail is obviously motion blurred.

If your strobe's fastest speed is 1/800, that's probably t.5. 
t.1 (roughly equivalent to shutter speed) is 1/3 that, so you're essentually shooting at 1/270ish which is wayyyy too for movement like that.  If you can get a t.5 of around 1/3000, you'll be ok.  Do you have a link to specs on your strobes?

Another thing to test if you have speedlights is to use them instead of the strobes to check the rest of your setup.  Speedlights are ultrafast compared to most strobes because they are IGBT.

I think your calculations are off. 1/800th is the TOTAL duration. t.5 is shorter (by definition). so is t.1 although it will be closer to 1/800 it will still be shorter. How much shorter?  I doubt the 1/3 rule works universally but it doesnt matter. it will still be shorter than 1/800 and thats plenty.   As posted earlier the t times for these strobes are not published, just the max/min duration. I had no problem freezing a ceiling fan at full max  hurricane setting with them.  but you are right about the images being confusing. The blurry dog's tail is cute (OP is female so I doubt the images are her).

Ken D Photography wrote:
Almost any flash/strobe with adjustable settings will stop action no matter what the shutter speed is.

This was done at 1/200, f/8 and ISO 400, but the speedlight  was set at 1/4 power to decrease the duration of the flash.



And, the flash was a $70 Yonguo YN560 shot through a shoot through umbrella.

Not necessarily true. It depends on many factors. Packs such as Profoto and Broncolor are known for making high powered, low flash duration packs.. You pay a premium for that feature too.

AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:

I think your calculations are off. 1/800th is the TOTAL duration. t.5 is shorter (by definition). so is t.1 although it will be closer to 1/800 it will still be shorter. How much shorter?  I doubt the 1/3 rule works universally but it doesnt matter. it will still be shorter than 1/800 and thats plenty.   As posted earlier the t times for these strobes are not published, just the max/min duration. I had no problem freezing a ceiling fan at full max  hurricane setting with them.  but you are right about the images being confusing. The blurry dog's tail is cute (OP is female so I doubt the images are her).

I tested with a friend of mine with his strobes- elinchrom..
He could shoot as fast as 320 with his camera while with my strobes and camera I could shoot only with 1/125. My camera's specifications (Canon 6d) allows synch up to 1/160, so with the elinchroms I got it- ad with that I got my frozen motion as well.  By the way my friend's strobes had the shortest duration on highest power, so I guess everything depends on the brand. So I guess tha flashe's duration where the main problem.
Do you have any other brand apart from einstein and alienbees - we do not have service in my country. What do you think about Elinchroms? 1/5000 starting point would be just fine I guess?

Ken D Photography wrote:
Almost any flash/strobe with adjustable settings will stop action no matter what the shutter speed is.

MaL kap wrote:
My camera's specifications (Canon 6d) allows synch up to 1/160, so with the elinchroms I got it- ad with that I got my frozen motion as well.

So exact same test setup?  (i.e., you used the same tripod, etc. lens, etc. as before)?

If your friend's Elinchrom's work, sounds like it's as simple as buying the same ones...it's nice to be able to share friend's modifiers too so you can see what you like...
Einsteins/PCBs are a great choice in the US, but outside, the competition is a lot tougher because prices go up a lot more w/ the extra layer of distribution/service (they get a minimal discount per strobe of something like $30 off we pay because we can buy factory direct here)...

SKITA Studios wrote:

So exact same test setup?  (i.e., you used the same tripod, etc. lens, etc. as before)?

If your friend's Elinchrom's work, sounds like it's as simple as buying the same ones...it's nice to be able to share friend's modifiers too so you can see what you like...
Einsteins/PCBs are a great choice in the US, but outside, the competition is a lot tougher because prices go up a lot more w/ the extra layer of distribution/service (they get a minimal discount per strobe of something like $30 off we pay because we can buy factory direct here)...

Its confusing, but the OP has two problems (actually 3).
1) cant freeze relatively simple motion like jumps with her strobes that others have no problem with
2) cant sync above 1/125 (again everyone else doesnt have this problem)
3) have you looked at the sample images oof the jumping dude?  it's the strangest blur I have ever seen.  not even sure it's real motion blur

At first glance buy Elinchroms would seem to be the solution but if we dont know why it is the solution the system may fail tomorrow doing something else.   It's kinda/sorta an expensive way to troubleshoot - buying kit until you get stuff that works all the time.

Also cant really buy PCB where she is or the ABs demonstrated here on page x would work fine.

Eye of the World wrote:
One thing that no one has mentioned. The OP said he is using a tripod and an IS lens. It wasn't stated whether the IS was on or off but when shooting on a tripod the IS should be turned OFF. Having it on can actually cause blur as it tries to compensate for non-existant shake.

This +1

AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:
3) have you looked at the sample images oof the jumping dude?  it's the strangest blur I have ever seen.  not even sure it's real motion blur

Yep.  I commented on it before...don't why the model's belt area is in focus.  Only thing I can think of is the IS, but it shouldn't look bizarre like that and the dog isn't blurred either except for the tail.

But if the Elinchrom's work and they're available in the OP's area, that seems like the logical solution from what we know...

AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:

Its confusing, but the OP has two problems (actually 3).
1) cant freeze relatively simple motion like jumps with her strobes that others have no problem with
2) cant sync above 1/125 (again everyone else doesnt have this problem)
3) have you looked at the sample images oof the jumping dude?  it's the strangest blur I have ever seen.  not even sure it's real motion blur

At first glance buy Elinchroms would seem to be the solution but if we dont know why it is the solution the system may fail tomorrow doing something else.   It's kinda/sorta an expensive way to troubleshoot - buying kit until you get stuff that works all the time.

Also cant really buy PCB where she is or the ABs demonstrated here on page x would work fine.

I retested on a model. This time the 1/160 (which is the limit from my camera did work around 70percent of the time).. Better pics than before but not really That sharp for professional  level..
You are right! It is the most expensive way and I am not happy about it.
I really should get three recievers though because I saw that when I used the third light I got a curtain for sure on 1/160.. Maybe because of that..

But, when I tested with the friend of mine, he tested with 1/60 and could still get good jumping shots, so I guess I need to buy strobes as well since I am on the limit of everything.. (1/160 and not as good pics using -a perfect lens..). Since either way Canon 6d has only 1/160 sync speed (!) I have to invest on quick strobes anyway..

SKITA Studios wrote:

So exact same test setup?  (i.e., you used the same tripod, etc. lens, etc. as before)?

If your friend's Elinchrom's work, sounds like it's as simple as buying the same ones...it's nice to be able to share friend's modifiers too so you can see what you like...
Einsteins/PCBs are a great choice in the US, but outside, the competition is a lot tougher because prices go up a lot more w/ the extra layer of distribution/service (they get a minimal discount per strobe of something like $30 off we pay because we can buy factory direct here)...

Everything was the same.. Yes I have to invest again.. , Einsteins and Alien bees are much more expensive for shipping Europe plus we do not have service, so it is a no go- unfortunately..

MaL kap wrote:
...
But, when I tested with the friend of mine, he tested with 1/60 and could still get good jumping shots, so I guess I need to buy strobes as well since I am on the limit of everything.. (1/160 and not as good pics using -a perfect lens..). Since either way Canon 6d has only 1/160 sync speed (!) I have to invest on quick strobes anyway..

You should be able to stop motion at 1/30.   

Turn down the room lights and shutter speed shouldn't be a problem.  Only the flash duration should be an issue.


Are you only using one radio receiver and three strobes?  Is the receiver firing the first strobe, and the other strobes are triggered via their optical slaves?  This could be a big factor in the problem.  The strobe on the radio remote is firing first, there is a delay before the other strobes trigger optically.  By having the strobes fire at different times, you are simulating a single strobe with a much longer flash duration.

Perhaps you should try with only one strobe (turn up your ISO).  If this solves the problem then you know the problem is not flash duration, but getting all the strobes to fire at the same time.

I suggest you nail down exactly what your problem is before you spend money on solving it.

Michael Fryd wrote:

You should be able to stop motion at 1/30.   

Turn down the room lights and shutter speed shouldn't be a problem.  Only the flash duration should be an issue.


Are you only using one radio receiver and three strobes?  Is the receiver firing the first strobe, and the other strobes are triggered via their optical slaves?  This could be a big factor in the problem.  The strobe on the radio remote is firing first, there is a delay before the other strobes trigger optically.  By having the strobes fire at different times, you are simulating a single strobe with a much longer flash duration.

Perhaps you should try with only one strobe (turn up your ISO).  If this solves the problem then you know the problem is not flash duration, but getting all the strobes to fire at the same time.

I suggest you nail down exactly what your problem is before you spend money on solving it.

Yes, currently I have only one receiver, and I need to get all three to eliminate the transmition time. I will try this first option before I change the strobes.. Thank you