MS Foto wrote:

Here’s my story, for your consideration:

  When I was a little younger than you, I met the girl of my dreams. We had a wonderful and magical relationship that was based partially on chemistry and insatiable mutual physical attraction, and partially on similar values and priorities. One of the very cornerstones of our compatibility was the mutual agreement than neither of us wanted any children. So much so that after 10 years of taking contraceptives, she suggested I go get “fixed” so she needn’t bother with that anymore. I happily agreed.
  Then, at 39 her ( 27 y/o ) co-worker/good friend got pregnant. Everyday she observed the child’s gestation and eventual birth. Being good friends we saw the child anytime we hung out with them, until that fateful day I will never forget. She came home from work, looked me square in the eye, and said, “I want to have a baby” Long story short, she changed her mind, and I did not. Our wonderful life together ended in a cordial divorce, and I have pretty much been alone ever since.
Moral of the story: If you know that you want a family, you should let him go now. Yeah it will hurt, a lot, but if you don’t do it now, there will come a day you will resent him. It’s nobody’s fault, he just isn’t the right partner for you...

A family can be a husband and wife.

Becks wrote:
I've always wanted kids, my entire life, since I was a very young child myself. But I never wanted biological children. Since I was eight, I've had the concrete knowledge that I wanted to adopt. I mean, I was the kind of kid that researched adoption laws at twelve so that I would be prepared for my imaginary future life. So finding out I was barren just wouldn't upset me the way it would devastate (understandably so). But I decided a couple of years ago that I didn't want to be a single parent (not that it can't be done, and done wonderfully, but I have strong fears of repeating my mother's mistakes and I don't think I would intentionally choose to carry such a heavy load), and I'm pretty sure I'm just not the kind of girl guys settle down and marry, so the idea of me actually raising children is bittersweet, I just don't think it will happen.

As for how I deal with that realisation-- this is horribly depressing, and I don't usually admit this in public, but I have a dream book, where all my dreams that I've given up on have gone to die. But I put day dream about whatever it was that I wanted in great detail and just put it in my binder. I have pictures and everything.

God, that sounds so ridiculous

Guys marry all kinds of girls

Sophia Be wrote:

Guys marry all kinds of girls

Well, sure, but guys don't marry all kinds of me.

Jules NYC wrote:
A family can be a husband and wife.

ofcourse it can. if that is enough for you

could also be a woman and 5 cats, by the way. I cal that "plan B" :p

Anna Adrielle wrote:
ofcourse it can. if that is enough for you

could also be a woman and 5 cats, by the way. I cal that "plan B" :p

Who said that not having children is anything less than a plan 'A'. It is certainly enough for me, and it is whether I could have kids or not :-)

Having kids is a very personal choice if it hasn't been made for you already, by design or by society.  How many people have kids because they think it a part of life's plan?

When I said two people can be a family, I sincerely meant it, and wouldn't put it in the same catagory as Quagmire's Mom on 'The Bachelor' (if you've seen that episode of Family Guy)



For those who truly want children, not only is it fair but the responsible thing to talk about these serious life choices from the start.

Jules NYC wrote:

Who said that not having children is anything less than a plan 'A'. It is certainly enough for me, and it is whether I could have kids or not :-)

oh I'm sorry, i didn't mean to imply not having children is less than having children. I was just talking about my personal preferences on the matter, for my life . Everyone needs to make their own choices!

immateria wrote:
But do I want it to be? (yes)

End of discussion. 

End.

Of.

Discussion. 


Why are people even asking her to go beyond this??   We have all met people who have really strained relationships with their kids.  We've met people who didn't take well to a child.  Why are we suggesting that she gamble with the life if a human being?  Oh sure, we suggest that we do it all the time in relationships because we assume adults can handle it (eventhough it's every bit as unfair to gamble with adults' emotions) but gambling with the life of a child is just fucking dirty.  Some of you are suggesting that she do something she doesn't want to do because you think it MIGHT turn out that she feels differently after she commits. 

This is not a car we're talking about.  You can sell that.  Not a move to another city.  You can move back.  This isn't a career path.  You can switch gears in that.  It's ugly to do it sometimes.  It's frustrating and sets you back.  It'll tax you in many ways but you can get it done.  But this is none of those things.  Adoption of a child is forever and don't suggest that someone do it when they said they don't want to.  That's a tall fucking order. 

Having a family and raising children are big points in the grand scheme.  It's not minor and I think we all know this.  I just think some are losing perspective and taking the “I can figure out a solution to this that works it and they ride into the sunset.” route.  No.  No, you won't.  Sometimes there's no resolution. 

Consider if this was religion.  Say she opened her post with “Hi, guys.  I'm an atheist.  I'll never be in a religion as I think the whole thing is a load of bollocks.  I've been dating this guy for a year and found out that he's devoutly Christian.  What should I do?”  Not a one of youse would suggest for a second that she convert to Christianity or start going to his church just to go or “Try it!  I like it and you might like it!”  That would be madness.  Her thoughts on children are no less important than religious beliefs.  Why are people suggesting a compromise?

Kincaid Blackwood wrote:

End of discussion. 

End.

Of.

Discussion. 


Why are people even asking her to go beyond this??   We have all met people who have really strained relationships with their kids.  We've met people who didn't take well to a child.  Why are we suggesting that she gamble with the life if a human being?  Oh sure, we suggest that we do it all the time in relationships because we assume adults can handle it (eventhough it's every bit as unfair to gamble with adults emotions) but gambling with the life of a child is just fucking dirty.  Some of you are suggesting that she do something she doesn't want to do because you think it MIGHT turn out that she feels differently after she commits. 

This is not a car we're talking about.  You can sell that.  Not a move to another city.  You can move back.  This isn't a career path.  You can switch gears in that.  It's ugly to do it sometimes.  It's frustrating and sets you back.  It'll tax you in many ways but you can get it done.  But this is none of those things.  Adoption of a child is forever and don't suggest that someone do it when they said they don't want to.  That's a tall fucking order. 

Having a family and raising children are big points in the grand scheme.  It's not minor and I think we all know this.  I just think some are losing perspective and taking the “I can figure out a solution to this that works it and they ride into the sunset.” route.  No.  No, you won't.  Sometimes there's no resolution. 

Consider if this was religion.  Say she opened her post with “Hi, guys.  In an atheist.  I'll never be in a religion as I think the whole thing is a load of bollocks.  I've been dating this guy for a year and found out that he's devoutly Christian.  What should I do?”  Not a one of youse would suggest for a second that she convert to Christianity or start going to his church just to go or “Try it!  I like it and you might like it!”  That would be madness.  Her thoughts on children are no less important than religious beliefs.  Why are people suggesting a compromise?

God. I love you.

I know that when I got into my relationship, I never really wanted to get married. Have children? Yes. At about six months in, once I love had been said and I dealt with our odd circumstances, I brought it up. My boyfriend is "fixed". I said I want a kid and I want one before I'm 30. Don't ask me why, but that's the magic number for me. His response was ok, if that's what you want here are our options: I can reverse the procedure, we can see about artificial insemination, or we can adopt. Ok, awesome sounded peachy to me. His only qualms were he wanted me to have a steady job, us to own a house, me to have savings and me be able to retire from modeling or stay home and do it. These were discussed, we compromised, we made a deal.

That being said if he had said no I'm not interested or anything close at all, I probably would have left. Failure to do something you set your mind on and envisioned breeds resentments. You may not feel it now, but when you're 40 you probably will. I know this well enough from growing up with parents who resented each other. I never want that. Sure, I can settle. However, I value myself and my quality of life more than that.

Anna Adrielle wrote:

oh I'm sorry, i didn't mean to imply not having children is less than having children. I was just talking about my personal preferences on the matter, for my life . Everyone needs to make their own choices!

Thank you for that :-) I had a lifetime to think about this deeply.

Kincaid Blackwood wrote:
This is why everyone should have their deal-breakers, they should address those deal-breakers early on and then honor the fact that it is a deal-breaking item. 

So.  You want kids.  It's a non-negotiable point.  He can't have kids.  It's a non-negotiable point.  This is an irreconcilable difference and it is time for you to walk.  Now that may seem harsh but it is not more harsh than compromising on a point you don't want to compromise on.  You want to naturally have children and people are suggesting artificial insemination.  That's cruel to suggest you do something you're opposed to.  Your body, your preferences and people should respect that.  Your boyfriend should respect that. 

YOU should respect that. 

Same with adoption.  You are opposed to it.  Period.  You shouldn't have to compromise on that.  This is not the color of a house we're discussing this is the rest of your life raising a living person.  Nobody should tell you to simply get over it.  It is no less important than religious matters and there's not a member here who'd tell you it was sound practice to convert to his religion. 

So you have this dealbreaker and you didn't respect it.  And now you've put time in and you feel so invested.  But it's no less a deal breaker now than it was in the beginning.  It's time for you to walk.  Again, these are nonnegotiable points upon which there is no compromising.  You wan to have children naturally and he can't have them.  You two are done. 

Because are you willing to live the rest of your life not having children?  Are you will to raise a child not of your own blood and his?  Are you just going to “let it go?”  I don't think you are and more than that, I don't think you should.  Everyone should have their dealbreakers and you should honor them.  Everyone should have those points where they get their walking papers without question without discussion.  It'll save you some heartache.  It'll spare you both years of resentment and anger and fights and frustration.  Don't bend in something is so core and so central.  You know why your mom doesn't like it?  Because she's been there.  Most people do it at some point, swallow something they shouldn't have or they've seen someone do it and seen how its affected their lives. 

Yes, it seems callous and unsympathetic and cruel but so is asking a person to do something they don't want to do for the rest of their fucking lives.  Time for you to leave.

This

immateria wrote:
...I know this is something I must decide for myself. But I would like some insight or varying perspective.

There are very many websites and forums for women and feritility and couples trying to acheive pregnancy by arificial insemination, (AI) donor sperm, donor egges, the "fertility awareness method" and against odds of Polycistic Ovarian Syndrome, declining estrogen and all other sorts of difficulities. There are loads of helpful advice, charts, recommendation and info on sites such as, "Fertility friend." and a whole host of others. I think a google for the topic, "fertility" will bring you there.

This isn't really something you decide totally by yourself, at least, not if there is a partner involved, especially a life partner.

There is also a groups called "Single moms by choice" or something like that.

Tim Little Photography wrote:
If this has been addressed please forgive me. I understand that you don't want to adopt or have a sperm donor. You only want children if they come about through intercourse with your partner. And, you are fully aware that your partner is unable to get you pregnant.

You seem to be accepting of this now but only somewhat. Just by posting this you indicate some reluctance to this set-up. One has to ask the obvious question.

.... The fact is you can have children but you have shut those doors yourself. So, in a sense, you are both equally unable to have a child.

I agree with the above post. You are making a decision now that will not be reversable because your ovarians diminish at the age of 36 and by the age of 41 your chances of acheiving pregnancy in a perfectly timed intercourse with two healthy people drops from the perfect 25%... to .05% at 41 and then to .002% after that. So, really, really know that there is no turning back and you are right, it is your own choice.
Jen
p.s. you could always go for a simple blood test too just to see where your own fertility is at too, heck you may have some PCOS or blocked tubes or diminished E2 and increased FSH levels and not even be able to have kids...might help solifiy your feelings on this, eliminate the mystery. Worked for me, (caught the mumps after puberty and well, that wrecks havoc on the ovaries-its why I am informed in this topic.)

MyrnaByrna wrote:

There are very many websites and forums for women and feritility and couples trying to acheive pregnancy by arificial insemination, (AI) donor sperm, donor egges, the "fertility awareness method" and against odds of Polycistic Ovarian Syndrome, declining estrogen and all other sorts of difficulities. There are loads of helpful advice, charts, recommendation and info on sites such as, "Fertility friend." and a whole host of others. I think a google for the topic, "fertility" will bring you there.

This isn't really something you decide totally by yourself, at least, not if there is a partner involved, especially a life partner.

There is also a groups called "Single moms by choice" or something like that.
Jen

I appreciate the effort you took in writing your response, but you have clearly not read this thread.

Anyway, I think I have gotten all the perspective I was looking for.

Thank you.

immateria wrote:
I appreciate the effort you took in writing your response, but you have clearly not read this thread.

Anyway, I think I have gotten all the perspective I was looking for.

Thank you.

Perhaps you want to read my p.s. edit in my original reply...that I was finishing as you were replying to me

This:

MS Foto wrote:
Here’s my story, for your consideration:

  When I was a little younger than you, I met the girl of my dreams. We had a wonderful and magical relationship that was based partially on chemistry and insatiable mutual physical attraction, and partially on similar values and priorities. One of the very cornerstones of our compatibility was the mutual agreement than neither of us wanted any children. .....
Moral of the story: If you know that you want a family, you should let him go now. Yeah it will hurt, a lot, but if you don’t do it now, there will come a day you will resent him. It’s nobody’s fault, he just isn’t the right partner for you...

"but if you don’t do it now, there will come a day you will resent him. It’s nobody’s fault, he just isn’t the right partner for you...:
And you will resent yourself too, when there is no more time left on the ovary-fertility clock too.
Jen

Phantasy Photo wrote:
It appears the choices and decisions of having your own child have been beat to death, but I'm surprised no one has mentioned ways of having a child in your lives that are "reversible".  Options like being a "Big Brother/Sister", coaching a youth athletic team, etc., might allow both of you to experience being involved with someone else's child but in a way you are not committed permanently.  You may find you want children more or less than you currently believe; the same would go for him.

A much more serious commitment would be becoming a foster parent.  This is a real commitment (I've done it) and not one you can just reverse in a week or two, unless you want to really harm the child emotionally, but it's not permanent.

Any of these could give both of you a greater sense of whether you really do or don't want children and move you both beyond the realm of theory into reality.

Given what you've said so far, however, my opinion is exactly that of Kincaid's...time to move on, because your ultimate resentment of what you gave up is almost certain to poison your future.

actually, bot of those options have been brought up (becoming a foster parent, and becoming involved with kids in a different way, like starting a yogaclass for kids).
and when you really want a child, most those aren't satisfying alternatives

Lohkee wrote:
Your thread title has got to be the best Freudian slip on MM ever.

** runs and hides **

(Sorry for the minor thread-jack)

lmfao

(sorry, but that caught me off guard )

immateria wrote:

It is. If have biological children, I would want them to be conceived in a totally natural
(and, y'know, fun) way.

So why not just have sex with someone who is fertile?

Quang Dang wrote:
I have an old friend who's having same problem, he and his wife were always argued regarding kids which she can't have it. He was unhappy, wasted 10 years living with her. Definately Wasted time, effort and money. This is main cause of their slit up cause he was so pissed off. Now he's looking for a new girlfriend and hopefully to form a new family. It's actually his dream and He believes he can do it...

The thing is what important for him is family and love which I believe good values

Sounds like a loving man, who would dump his wife for being sterile.

Becks wrote:

Well, sure, but guys don't marry all kinds of me.

Pish posh, I think you are lovely

Anna Adrielle wrote:

ofcourse it can. if that is enough for you

could also be a woman and 5 cats, by the way. I cal that "plan B" :p

Plan A for me.

Sophia Be wrote:

Pish posh, I think you are lovely

IT'S A TRAP!

Becks wrote:

IT'S A TRAP!

immateria wrote:
Okay, folks, I am appreciating all the responses.

I think a big part of the problem is that I am dealing with a highly unstable future. I'm not in a place in my life to have children, so I can't at all say what will or will not work for me when I am in a better place in my life.

Bold face, answers your own questions.

If you want speculation from me on that imagined future time, you'd need to tell me what makes your future so unstable because that would surely influence any advice I'd give.

V Laroche wrote:
Sounds like a loving man, who would dump his wife for being sterile.

immateria wrote:
For all practical purposes, there are no children in my future if I was to stay with my boyfriend.



The way I think of it is that there has to be a way to have a happy fulfilling life without kids. People do it. If I set my mind to that score, I think it's possible. Before my mother ranted at me about it, and my friend raised her concerns, I didn't doubt that a happy future was attainable.

On the other hand, who can say what I will want as my ovaries dry up.

You are 26 years old ... my mom became pregnant with my youngest brother at age 43 and my dad was 55.   At your young age, why are you so sure of of your clock winding down?  Also ... why do you really want children?

V Laroche wrote:

Sounds like a loving man, who would dump his wife for being sterile.

Exactly

On that note, why people start building relationships with people so ill-suited to their true desires/wants/criterion is beyond me.

V Laroche wrote:

Sounds like a loving man, who would dump his wife for being sterile.

Right? There is a huge difference today between "doesn't want children" and "can't have children."

There are so many options for people that that can't conceive the old fashioned way. Surrogacy, adoption, fostering, etc. it is rather selfish to give up on a relationship because one detail of how your child is brought about can't be fulfilled, at least in my opinion. The worth of a relationship can really be determined on how a couple works through matters like this. The ability to compromise and work through the bumps in the road to preserve your relationship. Leaving someone YOU LOVE because they can't give you what you want exactly the way you want it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth... However, if that person didn't share the same desire to want children at all, leaving that situation is understandable.

Little Queenie wrote:

Right? There is a huge difference today between "doesn't want children" and "can't have children."

There are so many options for people that that can't conceive the old fashioned way. Surrogacy, adoption, fostering, etc. it is rather selfish to give up on a relationship because one detail of how your child is brought about can't be fulfilled, at least in my opinion. The worth of a relationship can really be determined on how a couple works through matters like this. The ability to compromise and work through the bumps in the road to preserve your relationship. Leaving someone YOU LOVE because they can't give you what you want exactly the way you want it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth... However, if that person didn't share the same desire to want children at all, leaving that situation is understandable.

More logic right here.

Model Sarah wrote:
I can have children but it's a huge risk of chancing having a disability..50% actually. I'm kind of hoping for science to be on my side. I was talking with an anthropology professor last year who claimed that there is someone who has developed technology to detect a disorder before the time period of abortion. I will have to give this tremendous thought eventually. But in the meantime I'm hoping for science to be more advanced with this in a few years. I have been and will be very upfront with people if/when I date them about this.

It sort of depresses me sometimes I do not have much control over this, but such is life.

They do a lot of testing in CA. The department of health actually supports a program that analyzes the blood of a mother each trimester to determine trisomy presences that can tell you if your fetus is going to have downs and such with almost 90% accurancy. Coupling the blood tests with things like nuchal translucency ultrasounds and what they call "soft markers" for developmental issues also helps. Anatomy ultrasounds can be done starting at 18 weeks and they can detect these "soft markers" then.

It's pretty amazing. Not to mention what genetic specialists can do.