Will Snizek wrote:
I have friends who are too short for agencies up in the NYC area and they make a decent amount of money without doing nudes.

"My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious."

That's the equivalent of what you just said. Vague statements like that aren't really helpful

What are all these non-agency standard friends of yours shooting which they're making a decent amount of money? And who is hiring them? Probably not commercial mainstream clients, which is what the OP seems to be most interested in.

A lot of shorter models make a living off photographers who have no constraints other than what appeals to them. Obviously, the less limitations the models have, the more frequently photographers will hire them.

A 5'5" model isn't going to be signed to any legitimate Agency...and that's where the commercial clients go for commercial models. Shorter models who don't want to pose nude can do well in the glamour genre (Page Three/Maxim type content) but there's standards required for that too. And since the OP said she "doesn't do sexy" I think we've exhausted the majority of available modeling for shorter models.

Laura UnBound wrote:

Petite also cuts off somewhere around 5'6", for fashion, commercial, etc.

OP: since you can't change your stats, change what you bring to the table.

Become very proficient in doing your own hair and makeup
Build a unique (but versatile) wardrobe
Are you super bendy/can do amazing poses? If not, work on that
Do you have access to cool locations, neat props, do you know a guy with an old car or a horse or whatever someone might want for a shoot with you.

Any little thing that you can do that another model who looks like you can't, makes you more valuable than her. Which means you get picked.

It's gonna cost money, investing in hair and makeup classes and professional grade kits is costly, wardrobe can be costly, all of it is time consuming, but it can be worth it if it helps you reach your goals.

M Pandolfo Photography wrote:
"My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious."

That's the equivalent of what you just said. Vague statements like that aren't really helpful

What are all these non-agency standard friends of yours shooting which they're making a decent amount of money? And who is hiring them? Probably not commercial mainstream clients, which is what the OP seems to be most interested in.

A lot of shorter models make a living off photographers who have no constraints other than what appeals to them. Obviously, the less limitations the models have, the more frequently photographers will hire them.

A 5'5" model isn't going to be signed to any legitimate Agency...and that's where the commercial clients go for commercial models. Shorter models who don't want to pose nude can do well in the glamour genre (Page Three/Maxim type content) but there's standards required for that too. And since the OP said she "doesn't do sexy" I think we've exhausted the majority of available modeling for shorter models.

I never said she'd get signed by an agency, but nudes certainly aren't the only option for short models as people often imply here.

And there is the rare short model who does get signed by agencies, but that's extremely rare.  I think Isobella Jade is only 5'2" or something close to that.

Will Snizek wrote:

I never said she'd get signed by an agency, but nudes certainly aren't the only option for short models as people often imply here.

And there is the rare short model who does get signed by agencies, but that's extremely rare.  I think Isobella Jade is only 5'2" or something close to that.

So? What are the other options that your friends are successful at?

Deanna Mercado wrote:
I am personally new to modeling. I do mainly photo shoots and I get a lot of requests. I'm 5'2" and as curvy as it gets since I'm Latin. My best friend also models. She only 4'11" and is ver successful in car modeling. Just because you're not 6 foot tall doesn't mean you can't make the big bucks. Keep a smart head on your shoulders and stick to jobs you know height and needle thin isn't needed. Be comfortable with your body and let loose in photo shoots. A well maintained attitude and personality will always shine brighter than height and weight.

Completely agree with you.  Nice to see some common sense here!

Deanna Mercado wrote:
I am personally new to modeling. I do mainly photo shoots and I get a lot of requests. I'm 5'2" and as curvy as it gets since I'm Latin. My best friend also models. She only 4'11" and is ver successful in car modeling. Just because you're not 6 foot tall doesn't mean you can't make the big bucks. Keep a smart head on your shoulders and stick to jobs you know height and needle thin isn't needed. Be comfortable with your body and let loose in photo shoots. A well maintained attitude and personality will always shine brighter than height and weight.

Please define "very successful".

If you mean she does car shows and the bikini contests at them, that's a level of success.  If you mean she's been published in many tuner and import magazines, that's a very different level of success.  If you mean she's done 30 or so shoots for guys and their cars, that's also a different level.

While I agree that you don't have to be 6' tall to make big bucks modeling, it would be helpful to know what you're talking about when you say success.

Lisa Mae Russell wrote:
Big reveal-- I'm only five foot.

Let me be realistic with you.

5'0".  A bit heavy for your size. And PLEASE let me qualify that.  I'm not saying your fat.  I'm saying that if you're 5'0" and teeny tiny, like pixie small, that's one thing. If you're 5'0" and thick in the thighs, middle and even a few pounds overweight, it will show much more dramatically than on a frame that's 5'10".

I've shot very small women.  Even 5'0" tall.  A few of them photograph so much taller because they're very thin, and the appear to have much longer legs and arms and torsos because of how thin they are.  I've also shot 5'0" women who are not particularly thin, and finding the angle and poses that flatter them are more difficult.

So.  If you're not interested in nude work or even non-nude fetish work, you have few opportunities for paid work beyond promotional jobs that don't pay all that well.  That said, those jobs are available if you're reliable and available.  Finding them is as easy as doing a little local research.  Doing a good job at them and being called back for more is completely up to you.

Will Snizek wrote:

Completely agree with you.  Nice to see some common sense here!

Its often hard for models who are agency standard to get paid work.   Short models have it that much harder.   Clothing samples are usually made in one size.   You fit it or you don't.   Events like car and bike shows or promo modeling are options but that's not really modeling in my view and the bike/car shows often require models to be in bikinis.   The models get hit on all day and while some do quite well.   There aren't enough shows to make consistent money.   Whenever I see these kinds of threads from or by models I review their portfolios.   Most have poorly done imagery.   No tear sheets and haven't been here long.

Another curious thing is everybody has a friend who they don't name and we can't see photos of who makes 'bank' doesn't do nudes and is '4 11".   Outside of dreamworld USA.   You could have a well maintained tude and be as sweet as sugar but if you are not of standard height and figure not used.   Companies and designers and photographers aren't shooting your personality.   Who are these petite mystery models people talk about?   How do they book all this paid work?   What ad agencies use them?   Petite models should help their sisters out.

M Pandolfo Photography wrote:
A 5'5" model isn't going to be signed to any legitimate Agency.

Bullsh*t. I've been signed with 6 different agencies (yes, I got plenty of work), and am about to test for another.

It's difficult, yes, and you do have to have the right look, but it's by no means impossible, and it's misleading and dis-informative to say otherwise.

Rachel-Elise  wrote:

Bullsh*t. I've been signed with 6 different agencies (yes, I got plenty of work), and am about to test for another.

It's difficult, yes, and you do have to have the right look, but it's by no means impossible, and it's misleading and dis-informative to say otherwise.

Congratulations on your signings! That's fantastic!

Rachel-Elise  wrote:

Bullsh*t. I've been signed with 6 different agencies (yes, I got plenty of work), and am about to test for another.

It's difficult, yes, and you do have to have the right look, but it's by no means impossible, and it's misleading and dis-informative to say otherwise.

I am signed non-exclusive with several also I think what he meant because it very rarely happens is this: There are so so many agencies getting signed to some is not the problem.  But a 5'5 model is very rarely signed to Ford, Elite, Click, Wilhemena, and others of that stature.  The ones who land their models commercials for Lexus or runway that pays upwards in the thousands. 

I am making money but since I plan to keep my clothes on and I am short I am also a realist.  And too maybe where your from it is easier I am also talking about reality in the United States, the land of every girl here thinks she is a model  Competition is crazy to say the least. All I think people are saying is have an amazing time with it and allow it to take you where it will but also have other plans for your life outside of modeling

Deanna Mercado wrote:
I am personally new to modeling. I do mainly photo shoots and I get a lot of requests. I'm 5'2" and as curvy as it gets since I'm Latin. My best friend also models. She only 4'11" and is ver successful in car modeling. Just because you're not 6 foot tall doesn't mean you can't make the big bucks. Keep a smart head on your shoulders and stick to jobs you know height and needle thin isn't needed. Be comfortable with your body and let loose in photo shoots. A well maintained attitude and personality will always shine brighter than height and weight.

I am also curious as to what you see as successful, I know so few car models who make anything even on the cover and inside of magazines.  Calendar girls can do alright especially if they get a cut and the calendar sells good but otherwise I'm not sure I would see success the same.  BTW having done some car modeling at some of the largest shows it was for sure not my cup of tea.  Most the time very unprofessional and being oogled by every strange guy there. 

I can book photoshoots with the most amazing photographers around and I do love that part but lets get real alot of us get into this hoping to be discovered and at 5'6 I know my chances.  Lets face it in the world of fashion it happens so few times with like Dean Johnson and a handful of others.  Promotional modeling is easier but you are not going to make bank there

Rachel-Elise  wrote:
Bullsh*t. I've been signed with 6 different agencies (yes, I got plenty of work), and am about to test for another.

It's difficult, yes, and you do have to have the right look, but it's by no means impossible, and it's misleading and dis-informative to say otherwise.

I agree with the BS claim.  Some people here think they are industry insiders or something when no one even knows them. I can name quite a few well known models under 5'5.  It's tougher to make it when you don't have the high demand stats, but you can still make it. It reminds me of sports when everyone told Johnny Manziel he was too scrawny to ever be a star Quarterback and he won the Heisman.

Will Snizek wrote:

I agree with the BS claim.  Some people here think they are industry insiders or something when no one even knows them. I can name quite a few well known models under 5'5.  It's tougher to make it when you don't have the high demand stats, but you can still make it. It reminds me of sports when everyone told Johnny Manziel he was too scrawny to ever be a star Quarterback and he won the Heisman.

I don't think anyone is telling her it can't happen or to give up.  I am still here after 3 years and my dream is still alive even though I live demographically in a terrible place for modeling and fashion.  I travelled alot the past couple years and have shot with the most amazing people.  Made spending money most teenagers werent making but I am still realistic.  I have done numerous real magazines, book covers, television shows, been an extra in a couple movies, done calendars, promotional events, had two photos on a live billboard in Time Square, been part of a Dove campaign, have a photo selected by Vogue Italia, and on and on.  I don't feel I am at all an industry insider and I realize some amazing models are short but how many amazing short models do not make it in any part of the industry?  Alot, so I just will continue to work my booty off but be totally real with myself.  I am so sorry If I came off in a completely negative way that wasn't my intent

K I C K H A M wrote:
Ok, I'll add to the short model praise for a moment.

I know a girl who modeled with me here in Taiwan. She's 5'6 TOPS and booked a ton of stuff here-- including Vogue Taiwan.

Her agency sells her as 5'8. Which I find a bit ridiculous, because when you see her, you KNOW. But, it gets her in the door, and when they see her, they book her.

thats the type thing I am hoping for Kelli!

K I C K H A M wrote:
Ok, I'll add to the short model praise for a moment.

I know a girl who modeled with me here in Taiwan. She's 5'6 TOPS and booked a ton of stuff here-- including Vogue Taiwan.

Her agency sells her as 5'8. Which I find a bit ridiculous, because when you see her, you KNOW. But, it gets her in the door, and when they see her, they book her.

I accidently did a hair show at 5' 5 once...
I mis-read the casting and showed up 3 inches too short.

But, since I was willing to show up at 7 am call time, I got the job.
It was a shitty job though, they totally fucked up my hair & skin...
Serious dye marks on my face...

Totally not worth the 150.00 ish I was paid.

K I C K H A M wrote:
Ok, I'll add to the short model praise for a moment.

I know a girl who modeled with me here in Taiwan. She's 5'6 TOPS and booked a ton of stuff here-- including Vogue Taiwan.

Her agency sells her as 5'8. Which I find a bit ridiculous, because when you see her, you KNOW. But, it gets her in the door, and when they see her, they book her.

Yep, it's not always about bein' 5' 10" and agency standard  .  .  .  lots and lots of ad, catalog work that doesn't require that  .  .  .  sometimes a specific look will get you plenty of work  .  .  .

SOS

Lil Miss Jade wrote:

thats the type thing I am hoping for Kelli!

Well Miss LMJ, I wouldn't care if you were 4' 10", you carry yourself well, and photograph wonderfully  .  .  .  how soon can ya be here  .  .  . 

SOS

Lil Miss Jade wrote:

I don't think anyone is telling her it can't happen or to give up.  I am still here after 3 years and my dream is still alive even though I live demographically in a terrible place for modeling and fashion.  I travelled alot the past couple years and have shot with the most amazing people.  Made spending money most teenagers werent making but I am still realistic.  I have done numerous real magazines, book covers, television shows, been an extra in a couple movies, done calendars, promotional events, had two photos on a live billboard in Time Square, been part of a Dove campaign, have a photo selected by Vogue Italia, and on and on.  I don't feel I am at all an industry insider and I realize some amazing models are short but how many amazing short models do not make it in any part of the industry?  Alot, so I just will continue to work my booty off but be totally real with myself.  I am so sorry If I came off in a completely negative way that wasn't my intent

I wasn't referring to you with my "industry insider" comment.  I should have made that more clear in my post. I don't mind anything you've said. 

sospix wrote:

Well Miss LMJ, I wouldn't care if you were 4' 10", you carry yourself well, and photograph wonderfully  .  .  .  how soon can ya be here  .  .  . 

SOS

I am hoping to plan some things at the end of Summer and have spoken to several people in your area, so if I get to come that way let's work!

Will Snizek wrote:

I wasn't referring to you with my "industry insider" comment.  I should have made that more clear in my post. I don't mind anything you've said. 

I am so glad, I see girls come thinking it will just happen quickly and get taken my those wonderful scammers and etc. and then fade away hurt and with a crushed dream.  So I say go for it with all you got but have a back up plan lol

Lil Miss Jade wrote:

I am so glad, I see girls come thinking it will just happen quickly and get taken my those wonderful scammers and etc. and then fade away hurt and with a crushed dream.  So I say go for it with all you got but have a back up plan lol

There's generally nothing quick about a modeling career.  And there are definitely plenty of scammers.  I think modeling is a tough career that requires a lot of work, time and personal investment.  Backup plans are also a great idea for anything you get into.

Will Snizek wrote:

I agree with the BS claim.  Some people here think they are industry insiders or something when no one even knows them. I can name quite a few well known models under 5'5.  It's tougher to make it when you don't have the high demand stats, but you can still make it. It reminds me of sports when everyone told Johnny Manziel he was too scrawny to ever be a star Quarterback and he won the Heisman.

Care too name some of those well known models under 5'5"?   I am not a industry leader and I don't think anybody claimed too be but a quick look at agencies like;  http://www.dnamodels.com/home/   or FORD or ELITE who are and I can't find any models 5'5".   Please share some names and or photos of these models.   Where are they being seen?   No one is saying petite models can't do work but not fashion when they can't fit the samples.   Not runway.   Not most catalog.   So who are these models.   Please don't be vague or say you'll get back too us or you don't have time to say.   Please back up what you're claiming with actual models.

Death of Field wrote:

I accidently did a hair show at 5' 5 once...
I mis-read the casting and showed up 3 inches too short.

But, since I was willing to show up at 7 am call time, I got the job.
It was a shitty job though, they totally fucked up my hair & skin...
Serious dye marks on my face...

Totally not worth the 150.00 ish I was paid.

Ugh. I freaking hate hair shows. 150?!

When I think of getting screwed over by hair shows, I try to remember, "At least I got paid for them murdering my hair... some people pay for it."

Lil Miss Jade wrote:
I am so glad, I see girls come thinking it will just happen quickly and get taken my those wonderful scammers and etc. and then fade away hurt and with a crushed dream.  So I say go for it with all you got but have a back up plan lol

Will Snizek wrote:
There's generally nothing quick about a modeling career.  And there are definitely plenty of scammers.  I think modeling is a tough career that requires a lot of work, time and personal investment.  Backup plans are also a great idea for anything you get into.

Modeling "careers" are short, a few years is all most can handle.
You either have something that you can sell, or you don't.
Whatever "IT" is, "IT" fades fast.

Look at how few models are in their late 20's or even 30's.
There is a huge spike for early 20's then after 25 or so it drop off fast, until you can do "soccer mom" at 35+.

If you're a new model hit the ground fast hard and give it all you got for 6 months, if you're still lagging in bookings then be happy with a fun hobby.

If your booked 3-4 times a week then keep going hard until the market drops you.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Care too name some of those well known models under 5'5"?   I am not a industry leader and I don't think anybody claimed too be but a quick look at agencies like;  http://www.dnamodels.com/home/   or FORD or ELITE who are and I can't find any models 5'5".   Please share some names and or photos of these models.   Where are they being seen?   No one is saying petite models can't do work but not fashion when they can't fit the samples.   Not runway.   Not most catalog.   So who are these models.   Please don't be vague or say you'll get back too us or you don't have time to say.   Please back up what you're claiming with actual models.

I don't have time to list every short model but here's a few off the top of my head: Devon Aoki, Alice Dellal, Dean Johnson (I think she claims 5'7" but looks shorter than that), Twiggy was like 5'4", Devon Aoki is 5'3" and has done many runway shows.  I'm not saying it's a common thing, but it does happen.  And there are plenty of short models with successful careers who aren't on this level of modeling.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

Care too name some of those well known models under 5'5"?   I am not a industry leader and I don't think anybody claimed too be but a quick look at agencies like;  http://www.dnamodels.com/home/   or FORD or ELITE who are and I can't find any models 5'5".   Please share some names and or photos of these models.   Where are they being seen?   No one is saying petite models can't do work but not fashion when they can't fit the samples.   Not runway.   Not most catalog.   So who are these models.   Please don't be vague or say you'll get back too us or you don't have time to say.   Please back up what you're claiming with actual models.

I know a few decent agency models that are around 5'5-5'6.

Of course their agencies aren't going to tell you that. Again, very very few and very very far between. Nothing to get girls' hopes up too high. But these sort of things do happen.

But I don't think once you hit under 5'5 you can lie anymore. I mean, 5'5 is beyond pushing it. Also, think about the fact that the girls who are "making it" not fitting industry standards aren't changing any industry ideas. They aren't making the world easier for shorter models. They're lying to fit in.

And they also get turned away from castings sometimes when the people look at them and say, "5'8? Yeah, right."

K I C K H A M wrote:

I know a few decent agency models that are around 5'5-5'6.

Of course their agencies aren't going to tell you that. Again, very very few and very very far between. Nothing to get girls' hopes up too high. But these sort of things do happen.

But I don't think once you hit under 5'5 you can lie anymore. I mean, 5'5 is beyond pushing it. Also, think about the fact that the girls who are "making it" not fitting industry standards aren't changing any industry ideas. They aren't making the world easier for shorter models. They're lying to fit in.

And they also get turned away from castings sometimes when the people look at them and say, "5'8? Yeah, right."

You are right and it is rare.  I wouldn't tell every short model that they can make it to the big time or anything, but it does happen, so I feel it's wrong when people here tell someone what they can or can't do.  If someone has a unique look and puts in the work, anything is remotely possible even high fashion.

Will Snizek wrote:
I don't have time to list every short llama but here's a few off the top of my head: Devon Aoki, Alice Dellal, Dean Johnson (I think she claims 5'7" but looks shorter than that), Twiggy was like 5'4", Devon Aoki is 5'3" and has done many runway shows.  I'm not saying it's a common thing, but it does happen.

Yes, agencies will make an exception - a very very very very rare exception - for a llama who is below the normal height IF she has something else absolutely compelling about her. They are in business to make money after all so they would be crazy to pass up the opportunity of making money if it's there to be made.

However, that's the critical distinction - the exceptions you mention have made their agencies huge amounts of money for whatever reasons and therefore it has made sense for the agencies to overlook their height. The vast majority of 5'3", 5'5" and 5'7" girls applying to agencies would never bring in any money, or at least certainly not enough to justify making an exception for them.

That's why agencies for the most part prefer to play it safe and, if they're going to invest in a new llama, they will generally chose somebody who ticks ALL the boxes and therefore has potential to make them money from many different types of jobs rather than just a few.




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com

-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:

Yes, agencies will make an exception - a very very very very rare exception - for a model who is below the normal height IF she has something else absolutely compelling about her. They are in business to make money after all so they would be crazy to pass up the opportunity of making money if it's there to be made.

However, that's the critical distinction - the exceptions you mention have made their agencies huge amounts of money for whatever reasons and therefore it has made sense for the agencies to overlook their height. The vast majority of 5'3", 5'5" and 5'7" girls applying to agencies would never bring in any money, or at least certainly not enough to justify making an exception for them.

That's why agencies for the most part prefer to play it safe and, if they're going to invest in a new model, they will generally chose somebody who ticks ALL the boxes and therefore has potential to make them money from many different types of jobs rather than just a few.



Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com

+1

Lil Miss Jade wrote:
I think the other thing that has to be realized almost every petite model i have seen is pretty bone thin.  I wonder if it is because that way they look taller.  I know a model from Atlanta signed with Click and working, her face is the face for Goody hair acc.  her name is and she is something special

1. She's in Alabama.

2. I don't think she has her real height listed, and her agency probably doesn't either. You may want to edit your post as to not screw her over.