This thread was locked on 2013-05-03 07:39:08
Forums > Off-Topic Discussion > Flag Etiquette.

Photographer

Jerry Nemeth

Posts: 33355

Dearborn, Michigan, US

I Ference Photography wrote:

Sure it is.  It won't happen overnight, but think globally instead of nationalistically, and encourage others to do likewise, and it'll happen some number of generations from now.

A dream.

May 01 13 11:06 am Link

Photographer

Michael Broughton

Posts: 2288

Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

K E E L I N G wrote:

Typical self proclaimed free spirit who can't resist the urge to display his self perceived superior intellect despite no apparent reason for it..... check.

oooooo, you burned me so bad! ouch! except... 1: i've never claimed to be a free spirit. 2: if you've got a problem with me using big fancy words and concepts, that says less about my self perceived intellectual superiority than it does about your insecurity about your own intellect. for the record though, i am in fact smarter than most people. sorry if that's a problem for you.

May 01 13 11:45 am Link

Photographer

K E E L I N G

Posts: 39894

Peoria, Illinois, US

Michael Broughton wrote:

oooooo, you burned me so bad! ouch! except... 1: i've never claimed to be a free spirit. 2: if you've got a problem with me using big fancy words and concepts, that says less about my self perceived intellectual superiority than it does about your insecurity about your own intellect. for the record though, i am in fact smarter than most people. sorry if that's a problem for you.

Not a problem for me at all, just pointing out some simple facts that you've now backed up. wink

May 01 13 11:47 am Link

Photographer

Andialu

Posts: 14029

San Pedro, California, US

Michael Broughton wrote:
oooooo, you burned me so bad! ouch! except... 1: i've never claimed to be a free spirit. 2: if you've got a problem with me using big fancy words and concepts, that says less about my self perceived intellectual superiority than it does about your insecurity about your own intellect. for the record though, i am in fact smarter than most people. sorry if that's a problem for you.

If you would be so kind as to put your penis back in your pants. Thanks. smile

May 01 13 11:49 am Link

Photographer

Michael Broughton

Posts: 2288

Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

K E E L I N G wrote:

Not a problem for me at all, just pointing out some simple facts that you've now backed up. wink

uh-huh, sure. whatever you need to tell yourself.

May 01 13 02:53 pm Link

Photographer

Michael Broughton

Posts: 2288

Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Andialu wrote:
If you would be so kind as to put your penis back in your pants. Thanks. smile

i will if keeling will tuck his limp little flag back into his pants. might take me a while though, i only have two hands and i left my forklift at home. tongue

May 01 13 03:01 pm Link

Photographer

Andialu

Posts: 14029

San Pedro, California, US

Michael Broughton wrote:
i will if keeling will tuck his limp little flag back into his pants. might take me a while though, i only have two hands and i left my forklift at home. tongue

I said your penis, not your ego.

May 01 13 03:05 pm Link

Photographer

Michael Broughton

Posts: 2288

Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Andialu wrote:

I said your penis, not your ego.

yes, that's twice you've mentioned it. ok, i'm going to go now so that hopefully you'll stop trying to make this thread all about my penis. if you find it that interesting, feel free to start your own thread about it in sf2 or something. maybe i'll drop in and regale everyone with tales of it's many adventures! tongue

May 01 13 04:34 pm Link

Photographer

Andialu

Posts: 14029

San Pedro, California, US

Michael Broughton wrote:

yes, that's twice you've mentioned it. ok, i'm going to go now so that hopefully you'll stop trying to make this thread all about my penis. if you find it that interesting, feel free to start your own thread about it in sf2 or something. maybe i'll drop in and regale everyone with tales of it's many adventures! tongue

https://thegoodgreatsby.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/school-for-gifted-gary-larson-far-side.jpg

May 01 13 04:37 pm Link

Photographer

Michael Broughton

Posts: 2288

Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Andialu wrote:

https://thegoodgreatsby.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/school-for-gifted-gary-larson-far-side.jpg

normally i wouldn't respond to such a juvenile attempt to pull me back into an argument by not so subtly insulting my intelligence, but i actually have that on a t-shirt. shame on you for using the work of gary larson for evil. and now i'm getting the hell out of this thread for good so that others can get back to being anally retentive about flags.

May 01 13 04:58 pm Link

Photographer

Peter Claver

Posts: 27130

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Whenever people get huffy about flag etiquette I like to post images like these and see what their opinion is:

https://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z165/glassman_album/carryflag2.jpg
https://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1200450.1352690454!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_635/military-men-women-veteran-day-parade.jpg
https://static4.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/1500-1/photos/1352622689-celebrating-veterans-day-with-parade-in-san-antonio_1586841.jpg
https://www.concordmonitor.com/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=3tpwfYYI_1z81mJuhYAUJM$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYtvQCq542ThNCliKesy60gbWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_CryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg
https://static4.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/1500-5/photos/1586845.jpg

In case anyone is unclear:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/8

(b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
(c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

May 01 13 05:14 pm Link

Photographer

Andialu

Posts: 14029

San Pedro, California, US

Peter Claver wrote:
Whenever people get huffy about flag etiquette I like to post images like these and see what their opinion is:


In case anyone is unclear:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/8

My opinion is, I don't care. Those rules are outdated.

May 01 13 05:17 pm Link

Model

Lillian Faith

Posts: 310

Savannah, Georgia, US

Why can't we be friends....?



Personally, I respect the flag, as most of my family has served in the military. Do what you want to it, they fought for your right to do so. Just don't burn it and stomp on it in front of me. You'll piss me off.

May 01 13 11:57 pm Link

Photographer

Click Hamilton

Posts: 36555

San Diego, California, US

Lohkee wrote:
We flew a yellow flag with three red bars on it today. Some will understand why, others will not. Oh well.

The last flag of South Vietnam.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSYHAX17EvzKvGs3HS8ariuWRl4UvcZ5vWCmwSe4J6Podb-nWhJ

April 30, 1975 was the day Saigon fell to the communists.

Is this commemoration for a day, or for a week?

May 02 13 12:40 am Link

Photographer

Tim Summa

Posts: 2514

San Antonio, Texas, US

GK photo wrote:
i've forgotten to hang the flag vertically with the stars on the left side occasionally. it just looks wrong to me. i would just assume move it clockwise from its horizontal position.

Well, that is because the flag USE to be hung in the other orentation. Look at images of congress from before 1932. What happened? Uh OH! Conspercy time! LOL!!!

May 02 13 06:45 am Link

Photographer

Click Hamilton

Posts: 36555

San Diego, California, US

Costco offers American flags in their stores seasonally. They are nice quality and available now as we approach the 4th of July.

3x5, US made, embroidered stars, sewn stripes with matching color thread, nice pole and mount. Larger sizes of similar quality are available from another company through the Costco website.

If you want a flag, it's a nice one of high quality for a good price.

May 02 13 08:05 am Link

Photographer

Peter Claver

Posts: 27130

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Andialu wrote:

My opinion is, I don't care. Those rules are outdated.

*I* know that.. but some people like to get in a snit over such things... but they seem pretty selective about who's violating the rules.

May 02 13 08:11 am Link

Photographer

Farenell Photography

Posts: 18832

Albany, New York, US

Personally, I find the flag nothing more than a work of art. Something to respected when its deserved, something to be reviled when its deserved.

I'm sure people will come at me with pitchforks & torches when they see this:

https://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn63/semi234-part2/Leanne%20Price/8532.jpg

...but this concept was conceived on the fly while having the following image:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/ColumbiaStahrArtwork.jpg/432px-ColumbiaStahrArtwork.jpg

...of the pre-WWI Columbia allegory rolling around the back of my mind.

Besides she was a pregnant military wife & wanted something motivating for her husband while he's off killing terrorists in Afghanistan. Seeing as how I'm a Marine vet myself, I can't think of fewer things than a beautiful woman draped in the American flag (or its print patterns).

May 02 13 08:14 am Link

Photographer

Expression Unlimited

Posts: 1408

Oceanside, California, US

rules, smules...

May 02 13 08:14 am Link

Photographer

Click Hamilton

Posts: 36555

San Diego, California, US

https://www.betterphoto.com/uploads/processed/0822/0805260706291remember.jpg

https://www.battlestory.org/web_images/cemetery_military.jpg
Colleville-sur-Mer military cemetery , Omaha Beach, Normandy


https://images.takungpao.com/2012/1226/20121226114856814.jpg
"Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

May 02 13 08:26 am Link

Photographer

Cherrystone

Posts: 37171

Columbus, Ohio, US

Farenell Photography wrote:
Personally, I find the flag nothing more than a work of art. Something to respected when its deserved, something to be reviled when its deserved.

Flag should never be reviled......you're confusing the flag with something else.

May 02 13 08:31 am Link

Photographer

Ed Woodson Photography

Posts: 2644

Savannah, Georgia, US

I neither fly a flag nor have alleigiance to one.

I do find it interesting, however, that those who condider the Flag of the US to be a meaningless piece of fabric, sure get pissy when they see a Confederate Battle Flag.

May 02 13 08:36 am Link

Photographer

Click Hamilton

Posts: 36555

San Diego, California, US

https://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9chfq0Jo91qit3opo1_400.jpg
Neil Armstrong on the Moon

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/images/mer/2011-09-08/pia05221-640.jpg
A visit to Mars

May 02 13 08:47 am Link

Photographer

Ed Woodson Photography

Posts: 2644

Savannah, Georgia, US

Michael Broughton wrote:
For the record though, i am in fact smarter than most people.

Delusions of granduer!

May 02 13 09:37 am Link

Photographer

Click Hamilton

Posts: 36555

San Diego, California, US

https://cdn.funcheap.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/4th-of-July-Children-at-a-Parade1.jpg

https://piepushers.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/hot-dog-flag.jpg

https://eastcountymagazine.org/sites/eastcountymagazine.org/files/flag%20and%20apple%20pie.png

https://files.idealhomegarden.com/files/commons/4th_of_july_appetizer_recipes_watermelon_kids_american_flag.jpg

May 02 13 10:04 am Link

Photographer

Click Hamilton

Posts: 36555

San Diego, California, US

I remember learning some basic rules of flag etiquette when I was around 11 years old as a Boy Scout, mainly for instilling respect for our American flag and what it stands for  as a nation of Americans, our heritage, our culture, and who we are in the eyes of the world.

Without question, the American flag evokes many thoughts and feelings, and these vary widely.

As I was reading this thread I was thinking about the symbolism, emotions, respect and other responses I feel about the flag myself. The way these feelings move me descends from respect for the flag and what it symbolizes to me, which I think fits in with this thread.

I read the posts of a few people brave enough to defend the flag and what it represents to them. I see more people who seem to relish opportunities like this to trash the flag, wipe their butt with it, ... whatever,  ... trash America, trash our tradition, heritage and culture of freedom, individualism, liberty and what used to be called "The American Dream."

So, since we are all visual artists to one degree or another, I started posting the photos above display some of the feelings and respect I have for our flag and what it represents to me.

I'm happy to say that I feel very fortunate to be born and raised in the United States and to enjoy the blessings of liberty, economic freedom, blind justice, rule of law and so many other exceptional conditions that don't exist in much of the world. I know we are getting pretty beat up and frayed, but we still have some inherent values and freedom that is very fundamentally essential to American ideals and lifestyle.

The American flag does not embarrass me at all. I feel proud and happy when I see it, or when my neighbors post in front of their house, and it helps remind me of who we are as Americans, even in spite of all the challenges we face.

I will bare my chest and say that my heart has swelled and my eyes have become moist more than once at 4th of July parades, at the Miramar Air Show, touring our aircraft carriers and meeting some of the amazing people who run them, and walking through military cemeteries humbled with respect for the price many people have paid to help protect us as a nation.

Butt hay, your mileage may vary wink

Feel free to throw rocks if you like. Other people have paid dearly for your right to do that.

May 02 13 02:04 pm Link

Photographer

Peter Claver

Posts: 27130

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Click Hamilton wrote:
I remember learning some basic rules of flag etiquette when I was around 11 years old as a Boy Scout, mainly for instilling respect for American flag and what it stands for us as a nation of Americans, our heritage, our culture, and who we are in the eyes of the world.

Without question, the American flag evokes many thoughts and feelings, and these vary widely.

As I was reading this thread I was thinking about the symbolism, emotions and other responses I feel about the flag myself. The way these feelings move me descends from respect for the flag and what it symbolizes to me, which I think fits in with this thread.

I read the posts of a few people brave enough to defend the flag and what it represents to them. I see more people who seem to relish opportunities like this to trash the flag, wipe their butt with it, ... whatever,  ... trash America, trash our tradition, heritage and culture of freedom, individualism, liberty and what used to be called "The American Dream."

So, since we are all visual artists to one degree or another, I started posting the photos above display some of the feelings and respect I have for our flag and what it represents to me.

I'm happy to say that I feel very fortunate to be born and raised in the United States and to enjoy the blessings of liberty, economic freedom, blind justice, rule of law and so many other exceptional conditions that don't exist in much of the world. I know we are getting pretty beat up and frayed, but we still have some inherent values and freedom that is very fundamentally essential to American ideals and lifestyle.

The American flag does not embarrass me at all. I feel proud and happy when I see it, and it helps remind me of who we are as Americans, even in spite of all the challenges we face.

Butt hay, your mileage may vary wink

One of those photos shows someone using a flag as a tablecloth..

May 02 13 02:05 pm Link

Photographer

NothingIsRealButTheGirl

Posts: 35726

Los Angeles, California, US

Ed Woodson Photography wrote:
I neither fly a flag nor have alleigiance to one.

I do find it interesting, however, that those who condider the Flag of the US to be a meaningless piece of fabric, sure get pissy when they see a Confederate Battle Flag.

I don't know if anyone thinks it is a meaningless piece of cloth, but I know plenty of people who value what it stands for far more than they value the thing itself.

And people like that aren't getting pissy at the sight of a Confederate flag, they are angered by what they see it as standing for.

May 02 13 02:09 pm Link

Photographer

Click Hamilton

Posts: 36555

San Diego, California, US

Peter Claver wrote:
One of those photos shows someone using a flag as a tablecloth..

It looks more like a photo backdrop to me.

Here you go. This might be more to your point. I hope it helps.

https://whatscookingamerica.net/History/HotDogJuly.jpg

May 02 13 02:12 pm Link

Photographer

Peter Claver

Posts: 27130

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Click Hamilton wrote:

It looks more like a photo backdrop to me.

Here you go. This might be more to your point. I hope it helps.

https://whatscookingamerica.net/History/HotDogJuly.jpg

Merely pointing out that some of the more pedantic of your countrymen (like the OP it seems) may take issue with their precious flag being used to rest a pie upon.

May 02 13 02:18 pm Link

Photographer

Click Hamilton

Posts: 36555

San Diego, California, US

Peter Claver wrote:
Merely pointing out that some of the more pedantic of your countrymen (like the OP it seems) may take issue with their precious flag being used to rest a pie upon.

So why not let them? What difference does it make to you?

Why do you feel compelled to piss in their Cheerios, or to cut open a wound and throw salt in it?

Is that a PC and supercool thing to do now? Is this a witty demonstration of clever sarcasm? Does it feel good to mock Americans with continual condescending negativism?

Just curious.

May 02 13 02:25 pm Link

Model

T A Y L O R

Posts: 2990

Seattle, Washington, US

Michael Broughton wrote:
oooooo, you burned me so bad! ouch! except... 1: i've never claimed to be a free spirit. 2: if you've got a problem with me using big fancy words and concepts, that says less about my self perceived intellectual superiority than it does about your insecurity about your own intellect. for the record though, i am in fact smarter than most people. sorry if that's a problem for you.

Hahahahahahahahaha.
This has won my internets for the day.
lol

Hey bro, if you want to show off your intellect you might want to utilize capitalization when appropriate.

May 02 13 02:35 pm Link

Photographer

Click Hamilton

Posts: 36555

San Diego, California, US

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/evylien/ot/060618-N-63-76-72.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRrjgjkLb0BJr4LOxtjuFQPbRyn9mvIT3QII5-3b4d6GqZvKplw

I have not been in the military myself, but I have enjoyed touring and other special events involving this aircraft carrier and several other magnificent ships in our Navy when they dock in San Diego.

It always gives me goose bumps.

May 02 13 02:37 pm Link

Photographer

Peter Claver

Posts: 27130

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Click Hamilton wrote:

So why not let them? What difference does it make to you?

Why do you feel compelled to piss in their Cheerios, or to cut open a wound and throw salt in it?

Is that a PC and supercool thing to do now? Is this a witty demonstration of clever sarcasm? Does it feel good to mock Americans with continual condescending negativism?

Just curious.

I'm not stopping them.

Merely pointing out the silliness of the way they think.

I find most of the jingoistic people around these parts don't understand the position they're taking much beyond the requirement to make some idiotic post about whatever it is that's got the current bee in their bonnet (generally liberals, Muslims and government workers, I find).  Someone whispered in their ear that they should find some righteous indignation about this subject or that subject and blammo.. they're off to their keyboard.  I don't mind spending a little bit of my time disabusing them of their ill-conceived notions.

What's more.. if you think that such commentary is merely pointed towards Americans then you're just seeing what you feel like seeing.

May 02 13 02:39 pm Link

Photographer

Click Hamilton

Posts: 36555

San Diego, California, US

Peter Claver wrote:
I'm not stopping them.

Merely pointing out the silliness of the way they think.

I know you are not stopping them. You just enjoy heckling them.

Military and historical protocol regarding treatment of the flag is not silly at all.

Peter Claver wrote:
I find most of the jingoistic people around these parts don't understand the position they're taking much beyond the requirement to make some idiotic post about whatever it is that's got the current bee in their bonnet (generally liberals, Muslims and government workers, I find).  Someone whispered in their ear that they should find some righteous indignation about this subject or that subject and blammo.. they're off to their keyboard.  I don't mind spending a little bit of my time disabusing them of their ill-conceived notions.

I think you underestimate lots of people who are not you.

Peter Claver wrote:
What's more.. if you think that such commentary is merely pointed towards Americans then you're just seeing what you feel like seeing.

No, I don't. It's you who thinks I only see what I feel like seeing.

I think your general attitude is pretty consistent.

It might be interesting to scientifically test us both to see who might have the more open or the more closed mind.

Granted, I give you a pretty high score for original thinking, creativity, deductive reasoning, and I.Q.

May 02 13 02:46 pm Link

Photographer

Peter Claver

Posts: 27130

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Click Hamilton wrote:

Peter Claver wrote:
I'm not stopping them.

Merely pointing out the silliness of the way they think.

I know you are not stopping them. You just enjoy heckling them.

Much like a teacher enjoys passing her knowledge to her students.. I enjoy pointing out the limitations in peoples' thought processes.  People who think in black and white can benefit from being shown a whole rainbow of colour.

Military and historical protocol regarding treatment of the flag is not silly at all.

Maybe so..

So why do the soldiers whose images I've linked to above treat their flag with such disrespect?

Peter Claver wrote:
I find most of the jingoistic people around these parts don't understand the position they're taking much beyond the requirement to make some idiotic post about whatever it is that's got the current bee in their bonnet (generally liberals, Muslims and government workers, I find).  Someone whispered in their ear that they should find some righteous indignation about this subject or that subject and blammo.. they're off to their keyboard.  I don't mind spending a little bit of my time disabusing them of their ill-conceived notions.

I think you underestimate lots of people who are not you.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.


No, I don't. I think your general attitude is pretty consistent.

As you wish.

May 02 13 02:50 pm Link

Photographer

Ed Woodson Photography

Posts: 2644

Savannah, Georgia, US

T A Y L O R  wrote:
Hahahahahahahahaha.
This has won my internets for the day.
lol

Hey bro, if you want to show off your intellect you might want to utilize capitalization when appropriate.

And Punctuation.

I find that people who go to extra lenghts to convince me how smart they are, usually aren't.

May 02 13 02:53 pm Link

Photographer

Click Hamilton

Posts: 36555

San Diego, California, US

Peter Claver wrote:
So why do the soldiers whose images I've linked to above treat their flag with such disrespect?

As Americans, we are almost totally free to form our own opinions and express them as we wish.

May 02 13 02:55 pm Link

Photographer

Peter Claver

Posts: 27130

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Click Hamilton wrote:

As Americans, we are almost totally free to form our own opinions and express them as we wish.

Indeed.

Trouble is (according to the OP) those soldiers are breaking the rules.

I doubt he's coming back.. but you'll notice that the entire thrust of that original post was to ask his (and others who think like him) opinion of their rulebreaking.

May 02 13 02:57 pm Link

Photographer

Click Hamilton

Posts: 36555

San Diego, California, US

Peter Claver wrote:
Indeed.

Trouble is (according to the OP) those soldiers are breaking the rules.

I doubt he's coming back.. but you'll notice that the entire thrust of that original post was to ask his (and others who think like him) opinion of their rulebreaking.

Since I've been pretty much of an impudent, rebellious, outspoken, rule-breaker from birth, I think I'll recuse myself from trying to answer that question or from presuming to speak on his behalf.

I have a very high regard for the military, but I personally would not perform very well in that environment, for the same reasons I just laid out.

May 02 13 03:08 pm Link