Forums > General Industry > Fired PR director says her comment was not racist

Photographer

DeanLautermilch

Posts: 299

Hollywood, Florida, US

Apr 10 15 08:55 am Link

Photographer

DOUGLASFOTOS

Posts: 10604

Los Angeles, California, US

in 3....2....1.... Thread Closed.

Apr 10 15 08:59 am Link

Photographer

SayCheeZ!

Posts: 20144

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

I hope it doesn't close because it's a perfect example of how a photographer should NOT act during a gig.
The client wanted one thing, the photographer wanted something totally different AND he was trying to shoot photos for his own purposes on the clients dime.

Jones said he was photographing the models for a separate promotion for his own company,

Rosemary, the PR person was correct, her statement was taken out of context by a photographer that's just trying to save his own ass and make her look like the bad guy in doing so.

...he continued to tell me he was the official photographer and he had hired top models and this was going to be good for the city,”

Which is it Mr. Jones?  You were shooting models 'for the city' or 'for your own company'?
Shooting something that the city didn't want or shooting something that only you wanted while the city paid for your time?  Which one?  Oh hell, it doesn't matter, neither answer is what the client wanted in the first place.

The wrong person was terminated.

Apr 10 15 09:06 am Link

Photographer

Light and Lens Studio

Posts: 3450

Sisters, Oregon, US

DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:
in 3....2....1.... Thread Closed.

It's an open forum.  By what authority do you decide when a thread is closed?   None, I suspect is the answer.

Personally, I'm f*cking fed up with the political correctness that is eating our society like a cancer.  Yes, I'm definitely in favor of polite, civil behavior.  But, a huge segment of our society has become so 'thin skinned' that it's nearly impossible to say anything contra to what they are doing, or what they are saying that isn't "offensive" to them. 

So, for my 2¢, take this Orwellian Political Correctness, and shove it where the Sun doesn't shine.  If you find that offensive, deal with it.

Apr 10 15 09:10 am Link

Photographer

NothingIsRealButTheGirl

Posts: 35726

Los Angeles, California, US

Light and Lens Studio wrote:
Personally, I'm f*cking fed up with the political correctness that is eating our society like a cancer.

I bet she'll be reinstated.

Unless "political hire" turns out to mean she has less pull than she ought to.

Apr 10 15 09:22 am Link

Photographer

- Phil H -

Posts: 26542

Mildenhall, England, United Kingdom

Moderator Note!

DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:
in 3....2....1.... Thread Closed.

I see no reason to lock this thread, the people concerned are not members of the site, the topic is relevant and the discussion has not been derailed or hijacked, looks good to go from here.

Apr 10 15 09:25 am Link

Photographer

SayCheeZ!

Posts: 20144

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Light and Lens Studio wrote:
Personally, I'm f*cking fed up with the political correctness that is eating our society like a cancer.

NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:
I bet she'll be reinstated.

Unless "political hire" turns out to mean she has less pull than she ought to.

I hope so.

Out of curiosity I looked up the photographers name on Google and found an old forum thread started by a guy with the same name in Atlanta.  The post was a pompous, self serving statements by a sluggo with delusions of grandeur, and was 86'd from MM afterwards.

If it's the same guy (and there's lots of strong evidence that it is), that same righteous, self serving attitude is probably what caused the problem in Brookhaven, too.

Apr 10 15 09:30 am Link

Photographer

udor

Posts: 25242

New York, New York, US

DeanLautermilch wrote:
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/fired-pr-d … ist/nkqtW/

I've read about 80% of the article.

I agree that the woman might not have meant this as a racial comment... He wasn't hired to do a promo or advertising campaign for Brookhaven, he was hired to document the festival in itself.

His idea of hiring two models to shoot them on the dime of the city is his idea, and not the client's request...

When I am hired to shoot an event, I shouldn't be on the phone, unless during a break.

What the photographer was doing is in my personal opinion absolutely unprofessional!

Apr 10 15 09:34 am Link

Photographer

WCR3

Posts: 1409

Houston, Texas, US

SayCheeZ!  wrote:

The wrong person was terminated.

Amen.

Apr 10 15 09:37 am Link

Photographer

Herman Surkis

Posts: 10856

Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

"The photographer, Nelson Jones, was hired in advance of me coming to the city. The tourism manager told me Mr. Jones was a “political hire” and that he had been paid in advance for all three days of the festival plus our kick-off party."

Can you say "wrongful dismissal lawsuit".
And defamation of character.

This could end up being worth a couple of years salary.
And the end of one or two political careers.

Apr 10 15 10:06 am Link

Photographer

SayCheeZ!

Posts: 20144

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Herman Surkis wrote:
"The photographer, Nelson Jones, was hired in advance of me coming to the city. The tourism manager told me Mr. Jones was a “political hire” and that he had been paid in advance for all three days of the festival plus our kick-off party."

Can you say "wrongful dismissal lawsuit".
And defamation of character.

This could end up being worth a couple of years salary.
And the end of one or two political careers.

I was thinking the same thing.  Even if Ms.Taylor doesn't get involved, the bit of information revealed to the press should get the attention of a District Attorney to investigate further.  From the stuff I pulled up on the internet about the photographer  it's pretty easy to see that he's got a history of 'untruths' and scammy activities to say the least.

Rosemary Taylor called him out and he played 'the race card' in an attempt to save his ass.
God only knows how he was able to succeed in doing that, but it would be GREAT to see all this brought up in court and let justice prevail.

Apr 10 15 10:16 am Link

Photographer

udor

Posts: 25242

New York, New York, US

SayCheeZ!  wrote:
From the stuff I pulled up on the internet about the photographer  it's pretty easy to see that he's got a history of 'untruths' and scammy activities to say the least.

Rosemary Taylor called him out and he played 'the race card' in an attempt to save his ass.
God only knows how he was able to succeed in doing that, but it would be GREAT to see all this brought up in court and let justice prevail.

Then there is this "I hired top models" quote of him that made me roll my eyes...

Nothing against those two local girls, but I know a lot of club-promoter type of photographer who try to make themselves more important by calling every average model a "top model"...

I know some of those guys in NYC quite well!

Apr 10 15 10:36 am Link

Photographer

Jerry Nemeth

Posts: 33355

Dearborn, Michigan, US

SayCheeZ!  wrote:
I hope it doesn't close because it's a perfect example of how a photographer should NOT act during a gig.
The client wanted one thing, the photographer wanted something totally different AND he was trying to shoot photos for his own purposes on the clients dime.


Rosemary, the PR person was correct, her statement was taken out of context by a photographer that's just trying to save his own ass and make her look like the bad guy in doing so.


Which is it Mr. Jones?  You were shooting models 'for the city' or 'for your own company'?
Shooting something that the city didn't want or shooting something that only you wanted while the city paid for your time?  Which one?  Oh hell, it doesn't matter, neither answer is what the client wanted in the first place.

The wrong person was terminated.

+1

Apr 10 15 12:07 pm Link

Photographer

PhotographybyT

Posts: 7943

Monterey, California, US

Gotta side with the PR Director on this one.

Apr 10 15 12:45 pm Link

Photographer

Jay Edwards

Posts: 18616

Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US

Light and Lens Studio wrote:
...

Personally, I'm f*cking fed up with the political correctness that is eating our society like a cancer.  Yes, I'm definitely in favor of polite, civil behavior.  But, a huge segment of our society has become so 'thin skinned' that it's nearly impossible to say anything contra to what they are doing, or what they are saying that isn't "offensive" to them. 

So, for my 2¢, take this Orwellian Political Correctness, and shove it where the Sun doesn't shine.  If you find that offensive, deal with it.

I cannot disagree.

Apr 10 15 12:51 pm Link

Model

JadeDRed

Posts: 5620

London, England, United Kingdom

SayCheeZ!  wrote:
Out of curiosity I looked up the photographers name on Google and found an old forum thread started by a guy with the same name in Atlanta.  The post was a pompous, self serving statements by a sluggo with delusions of grandeur, and was 86'd from MM afterwards.

That was pretty funny.

Apr 10 15 01:38 pm Link

Photographer

- Phil H -

Posts: 26542

Mildenhall, England, United Kingdom

udor wrote:

Then there is this "I hired top models" quote of him that made me roll my eyes...

Nothing against those two local girls, but I know a lot of club-promoter type of photographer who try to make themselves more important by calling every average model a "top model"...

I know some of those guys in NYC quite well!

I wouldn't be surprised if the girls are from the "agency" he runs.

Apr 10 15 01:56 pm Link

Photographer

Brooklyn Bridge Images

Posts: 12996

Brooklyn, New York, US

Who ever admits to this ?
Even the Ex Grand Wizard of KKK claims he's not racist

Apr 10 15 02:41 pm Link

Photographer

Zack Zoll

Posts: 6895

Glens Falls, New York, US

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
Who ever admits to this ?
Even the Ex Grand Wizard of KKK claims he's not racist

I fail to see the connection. It sounds like you'resaying that everyone is racist, since no one is believable when they argue it.

The photographer could not be any more full of shit, without it coming out his ears. If he had a leg to stand on, he would have claimed wrongful termination, or breach of contract. After all, HE was the one that was fired - not the girls. The city didn't hire them.

But he went race card, and I can only assume the PR person lost he job because the city wants to sweep everything under the rug while the festival is going on. I can only assume city officials will No Commenting on this until then, at which point there will be a review board. Followed by reinstatement or a lawsuit, and then a different person losing their job.

Apr 10 15 03:33 pm Link

Photographer

Jay Edwards

Posts: 18616

Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
...
Even the Ex Grand Wizard of KKK claims he's not racist

He could be correct.  It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'racist' is. 

Similar to "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is.''

just saying

Apr 10 15 04:40 pm Link

Model

D A N I

Posts: 4627

Little Rock, Arkansas, US

I'm still trying to figure out what the big deal is in what was said

Apr 10 15 05:03 pm Link

Photographer

Rob Photosby

Posts: 4760

Brisbane, Queensland, Australia

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
Who ever admits to this ?
Even the Ex Grand Wizard of KKK claims he's not racist

You certainly have a good point there.

On the other hand, there is no shortage of people who will play the race card to get things that they could not get by fairer means.

Apr 10 15 05:22 pm Link

Wardrobe Stylist

Alannah The Stylist

Posts: 1550

Los Angeles, California, US

“This is not the image I want for the city of Brookhaven.” I don't think her intent was to be racist but I can see how her comment could be taken that way.Her response seemed so personal.I probably would have said something like, "it wasn't in our agreement for you to hire models for this event." In my opinion they were both being unprofessional. The photographer should never have hired models for the event if he wasn't asked to and the PR Coordinator's response was more of a hurt for the image of Brookhaven than the photographer's actions. Crazy stuff happens at events, but you expect a PR person to remain cool in a situation and try to handle things in the most diplomatic way possible.So, I think it was a good idea for the pr coordinator to be fired.

Apr 10 15 05:42 pm Link

Photographer

NothingIsRealButTheGirl

Posts: 35726

Los Angeles, California, US

Alannah The Stylist wrote:
Crazy stuff happens at events, but you expect a PR person to remain cool in a situation and try to handle things in the most diplomatic way possible.So, I think it was a good idea for the pr coordinator to be fired.

PR stands for Public Relations, not Photographer Relations.

Apr 10 15 05:45 pm Link

Wardrobe Stylist

Alannah The Stylist

Posts: 1550

Los Angeles, California, US

NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:

PR stands for Public Relations, not Photographer Relations.

I know that.....What is your point?

Apr 10 15 06:09 pm Link

Photographer

Shot By Adam

Posts: 7987

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

SayCheeZ!  wrote:
I hope it doesn't close because it's a perfect example of how a photographer should NOT act during a gig.
The client wanted one thing, the photographer wanted something totally different AND he was trying to shoot photos for his own purposes on the clients dime.

Agreed. This entire thing is just one giant epic fail and I do believe that the wrong person was terminated as well. Furthermore, the article stated that the "models" thought it was a racist statement too. The girls are what, 17 and 18? After the statement was made, I'm sure the fauxtographer went up to them and said, "Hey, that sounded really racist, didn't it? I'm sure you'll agree with me on that, right?" and the two impressionable teens just nodded their heads for the idiot reporter. That's how these things usually go down.

SayCheeZ!  wrote:
Out of curiosity I looked up the photographers name on Google and found an old forum thread started by a guy with the same name in Atlanta.  The post was a pompous, self serving statements by a sluggo with delusions of grandeur, and was 86'd from MM afterwards.

Have you seen his website?

https://media.giphy.com/media/RrMHH4morVkKA/giphy.gif

Apr 10 15 07:26 pm Link

Photographer

Tony Lawrence

Posts: 21471

Chicago, Illinois, US

Very often its not what you say but how you say it and to who  you say it.   I would have pulled the photographer aside and not let the girls be a part of the conversation.   This dispute was not with the models and I might not have made them leave.   If she was quoted accurately I could see it might be offensive to some people.   That's why you take the photographer aside and speak privately.    The photographer was clearly wrong based on what I've read and if that's the same guy that was a member here... wow.   Still it was embarrassing for  the models and maybe could have been avoided.

Apr 10 15 09:01 pm Link

Photographer

Warren Leimbach

Posts: 3202

Tampa, Florida, US

So the actual words spoken were: “This is not the image we want for Brookhaven. We don’t need models for this.” 

Is that ALL that was said?
Hardly seems like a misuse of power or a denial of someone's humanity.  Are we hearing the whole story?

I agree based on this article the photographer was the unprofessional one.

I also agree with Tony that the models didn't need to be within earshot of the conversation.

Apr 10 15 09:04 pm Link

Photographer

WCR3

Posts: 1409

Houston, Texas, US

If the Nelson Jones in the story is the same Nelson Jones who was once on Model Mayhem, (see https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post/147523/1 ), it is not surprising he pulled the race card. See his Rolling Stone interview here: http://www.topopentertainment.com/Casti … rview.html

If it's not the same Nelson Jones, just disregard.

Apr 10 15 09:20 pm Link

Photographer

Shot By Adam

Posts: 7987

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

WCR3 wrote:
If the Nelson Jones in the story is the same Nelson Jones who was once on Model Mayhem, (see https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post/147523/1 ), it is not surprising he pulled the race card. See his Rolling Stone interview here: http://www.topopentertainment.com/Casti … rview.html

If it's not the same Nelson Jones, just disregard.

It's the same guy. Notice the Topop references? It's the same dude I'm sure. What I also find interesting is that the only reference anywhere on the Net to this clown and that Rolling Stone "interview" is the transcript on his website. It doesn't appear anywhere else.

What's even better is how he offers photography classes:

http://www.topopentertainment.com/Shopp … tique.html

Doesn't that just make you feel great that someone with his outstanding body of work is out there teaching others?

Sigh.

Apr 10 15 09:51 pm Link

Photographer

Shot By Adam

Posts: 7987

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

His facebook cover photo.

Nuff said...


https://www.shotbyadam.com/images/nelsonjones.jpg

Apr 10 15 10:00 pm Link

Photographer

NothingIsRealButTheGirl

Posts: 35726

Los Angeles, California, US

Alannah The Stylist wrote:
Crazy stuff happens at events, but you expect a PR person to remain cool in a situation and try to handle things in the most diplomatic way possible.So, I think it was a good idea for the pr coordinator to be fired.

NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:
PR stands for Public Relations, not Photographer Relations.

Alannah The Stylist wrote:
I know that.....What is your point?

PR people are supposed to manage public perceptions of an organization, not some temporary vendor or employee's perceptions of it.

Apr 10 15 10:10 pm Link

Apr 10 15 10:21 pm Link

Photographer

SayCheeZ!

Posts: 20144

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Shot By Adam wrote:
What I also find interesting is that the only reference anywhere on the Net to this clown and that Rolling Stone "interview" is the transcript on his website. It doesn't appear anywhere else..

Yep, that's one of the many things in mind when I mentioned that the asshat spews lots of 'untruths'.

Apr 10 15 10:26 pm Link

Photographer

Shot By Adam

Posts: 7987

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:
http://brookcherryfest.org/photo-galler … #jfbalbum1
http://brookcherryfest.org/photo-gallery/
Is this the event?

Looks like it. I hope they stopped payment on the check for the photography work.

Apr 10 15 10:27 pm Link

Photographer

SayCheeZ!

Posts: 20144

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Shot By Adam wrote:
Furthermore, the article stated that the "models" thought it was a racist statement too. The girls are what, 17 and 18? After the statement was made, I'm sure the fauxtographer went up to them and said, "Hey, that sounded really racist, didn't it? I'm sure you'll agree with me on that, right?" and the two impressionable teens just nodded their heads for the idiot reporter. That's how these things usually go down.

I'm pretty sure that's how it happened, and young girls like that normally will believe a con artist that claims to be a major talent agent, photographer and whatever else that feeds 'em compliments instead of sensible people that try to talk sense into them.

I've seen it many times in many ways.  That's how pimps get naive women to end up hookin' for them, that's how fake agents/fake publishers scam wannabee models out of $$$ and sexual favors, and even how con artists that need a green card get a woman to marry 'em. 

It's all the same routine.  The victims want to believe soooo much that their dream is coming true and will do anything the scamster tells them to do.

Apr 10 15 10:35 pm Link

Photographer

Jerry Nemeth

Posts: 33355

Dearborn, Michigan, US

Shot By Adam wrote:

It's the same guy. Notice the Topop references? It's the same dude I'm sure. What I also find interesting is that the only reference anywhere on the Net to this clown and that Rolling Stone "interview" is the transcript on his website. It doesn't appear anywhere else.

What's even better is how he offers photography classes:

http://www.topopentertainment.com/Shopp … tique.html

Doesn't that just make you feel great that someone with his outstanding body of work is out there teaching others?

Sigh.

At the end of the Rolling Stone interview it says that he lives in Brookhaven.

Apr 10 15 10:55 pm Link

Photographer

Tony Lawrence

Posts: 21471

Chicago, Illinois, US

This is NOT to defend the photographer but lets give young women a bit more credit then to suggest they are too stupid to know what a scam may be or if a remark is racist or not.   When you work in public relations as that director did part of your job may be to deal with vendors and contractors.   In today's world where the most innocuous remarks can get you into trouble I think its best to err on the side of caution.   Now this man has two possible witnesses who may collaborate his version of what was said.   My suspicions are that he may have friends who hooked him up who work for the city because he's not a good photographer.   That's a personal view and he's not a member here anymore.

Its also important to note while we may think he's a sluggo he does  apparently get actual paid work for models.   She shouldn't have made the girls leave.   She should have spoken to him away from everyone.   A few things come to mind.   Had he shot the event before?   Had he used models or just taken candids of people?   Again pull him aside and ask him or another person who had been there before.   The last thing you want to do is embarrass people.    Now its on the news and reporters are asking her questions.   Being a good PR person means... knowing how to make sure your PR is positive.

Apr 10 15 11:15 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 44572

Salinas, California, US

D A N I wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out what the big deal is in what was said

I think it's about failure to communicate.

Apr 10 15 11:30 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 44572

Salinas, California, US

Alannah The Stylist wrote:
“This is not the image I want for the city of Brookhaven.” I don't think her intent was to be racist but I can see how her comment could be taken that way.Her response seemed so personal.I probably would have said something like, "it wasn't in our agreement for you to hire models for this event." In my opinion they were both being unprofessional. The photographer should never have hired models for the event if he wasn't asked to and the PR Coordinator's response was more of a hurt for the image of Brookhaven than the photographer's actions. Crazy stuff happens at events, but you expect a PR person to remain cool in a situation and try to handle things in the most diplomatic way possible.So, I think it was a good idea for the pr coordinator to be fired.

I think firing her was a bit extreme.   Her wording of what she said was awkward.  She didn't communicate well, but the point she was attempting to make is that the city was paying him for a job, and not for him to be there shooting a couple models he brought in admittedly for "his business" ... while on the City's dime.  But two wrongs don't make a right either way, I don't agree with firing her.

Apr 10 15 11:41 pm Link