TerrysPhotocountry wrote:
After the photographer approach's you, Do you then ask how much they will pay you or tell them how much that you want to be paid?

They ask me what my rates are...

sarah tonin wrote:
They ask me what my rates are...

If You are not getting a response the rate may be unacceptable to the Photographer involved in the discussion.

sarah tonin wrote:

They ask me what my rates are...

Sounds to me like another variation on the "No answer is a NO answer" theme.  I agree that it's rude on the part of anyone who does business this way but I also submit that sometimes the pressures of business, or just one's day to day world, force it upon us.

All IMHO as always, of course.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
First contact: "Hi, I am interested in working with you.  What are your rates?"
First reply: "$100 an hour"
end conversation?

While it would be nice to get a response, such as, "Sorry, a little too rich for me," or even, "Okay thanks," which leaves you hanging just as much, that isn't much of a conversation.  If you have exchanged several emails, than it is harder to understand.  Courtesy requires us to appropriately end any conversation.  That is why most people say "bye" before they hang up the phone.  I have a customer who just terminates the call when he is done talking and I find it annoying.

The reality is that we have the same problem with models.  If offer a low rate, I do not get a counter offer, I am just ignored from then on.  Many emails do not get the slightest reply because God forbid someone would take the time to say, "No thank you."  Or "Yes, please."  I would like to point out that it is your generation and the people that grew up just before you that has eliminated these courtesies.  Not that my generation doesn't share in the rudeness and we have ignored many other niceties and courtesies.

I suggest that you do as others suggested, and make one follow up contact.  Other than that, we can only be in control of how we treat other people.

I like your pseudonym. 

Edit:
As an example, I browsed new models in my area a few nights ago.  I sent 5 emails and 5 friend requests.  One FR was accepted. Zero email responses.  I got a good response relative to the norm.  These are all people that could have the potential to get paid work from me.  Which models do you think I will give priority to hiring?

There's that $100hr again...!

Seriously, is there any model on here who earns that much from internet modelling - speak up?

L o n d o n   F o g wrote:

There's that $100hr again...!

Seriously, is there any model on here who earns that much from internet modelling - speak up?

Educate yourself
https://www.modelmayhem.com/casting/res … h_keyword=

L o n d o n   F o g wrote:

There's that $100hr again...!

Seriously, is there any model on here who earns that much from internet modelling - speak up?

You have declared that you will no longer use MM models in 2017 (I can link it if you insist) and yet you continue to to be dismayed that that a candy bar is $1.25 instead of a quarter.

Many models make that.  Many expect more than that.  Some are worth it.  Why should any of them speak up to someone that is just here to start an argument or belittle them?

L o n d o n   F o g wrote:
There's that $100hr again...!

Seriously, is there any model on here who earns that much from internet modelling - speak up?

I did earn that much money when I did erotica, niche fetish and BDSM content, yes.  Scripted fetish videos paid $100+ hourly pretty regularly, often to do stuff like wrestling a male in staged wrestling scenes, or rubbing one's feet in various food substances, after which another model would be shown licking the jam, chocolate or whatever off the toes. Arts and glamour, no.

I've known freelance internet models who had no difficulty making $100/hr with arts and glamour, but they were generally quite busty and tan, blond or redheads. The traditional "playmate centerfold" look. Had I had opted to have had a breast augmentation early on, when I was actively starting to model in my mid-20s, I could have probably hit the $100/hr mark, or more, with non-erotic content pretty consistently and easily. Actually, I know that I would have been able to, at least for a few years.

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:

Educate yourself
https://www.modelmayhem.com/casting/res … h_keyword=

Not to start an argument but the the posts I read didn't say how much models were seeking or was TBD.   As a long time member its been my experience.   What people claim to make is sometimes quite different then what they actually do.   I'm sure there are models here who do earn $100.00 or more per hour.   Yet as an assistant to several shooters who book amateur models to do art or erotic nudes not one has paid more then $50.00 per hour.   Usually its a half day rate.   I'm talking about $150.00 to $250.00.   Years past Playboy magazine paid $500.00 a day for non centerfolds.   Yes, being in Playboy was an honor but this notion that most nude models from sites like these book $100.00 per hour is in my view nonsense.    That $500.00 was for eight or more hours by the way.

I'm talking about traveling models who look for trades for places to crash and food.    Clearly if they were booking $100.00 an hour wouldn't need any kinds of trades.   Look, I get it.   No one wants to admit they often work for less then the 'going' rate but I suspect many people do.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:

You have declared that you will no longer use MM models in 2017 (I can link it if you insist) and yet you continue to to be dismayed that that a candy bar is $1.25 instead of a quarter.

Many models make that.  Many expect more than that.  Some are worth it.  Why should any of them speak up to someone that is just here to start an argument or belittle them?

Yes, no more MM models from 2017, no denying that at all.

As for the $100hr malarky, I'll stick by what I've already said on this in other posts.

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:

Educate yourself
https://www.modelmayhem.com/casting/res … h_keyword=

And this doesn't prove a damn thing, other than anyone can ask for what they want - question is who will pay that kind of cash, unless it's serious erotica, porn or something on that level.

sarah tonin wrote:
I'm sorry, but am I the only one on this site who thinks its unacceptable when a photographer completely stops responding to messages, when you are trying to set a shoot up?

To be a little more specific, the photographers are always the ones who approach me first. When it comes in to discussing rates, the type of shoot, and possible dates, some photographers just decide to stop responding. Quite honestly, I am fed up with it.

If you do this, I believe you should stop playing games and have some common courtesy.

Don't feel bad. It happens with us photographers too.

& in all honesty, MM's messaging system may have been good 9-10 years ago when people were still using mostly desktops & laptops but is incredibly poor for today's usage. Lord help you if you're on a mobile device. Why they've not develop an app for the major phone providers even though the members have repeatedly asked for one since 2010 is not earlier is beyond me.

OP, I'd recommend somewhere in future communique to offer photographers a way to contact you off MM whether its texting or regular email address or via a FB page. (I feel like MM's messaging system is that bad)

Mina Salome wrote:
Yes, it can be frustrating when a photographer doesn't respond mid-conversation.  However, I make it a point to follow up if a conversation drops off suddenly, and at that point the photographer usually responds.

This is a smart move & I try to do something along these lines as well.

L o n d o n   F o g wrote:
And this doesn't prove a damn thing, other than anyone can ask for what they want - question is who will pay that kind of cash, unless it's serious erotica, porn or something on that level.

I will pay that kind of cash and it is usually a good business decision.  If I was hiring a model for an eight hour gig, I would be looking for a substantial discount.  If I expect her to go to all the effort to set up a one or two hour shoot with me so I can get specific shots for concepts and then incidentals, I will have for more images to work with then I will ever paint.  Much cheaper than highering a life model.  I have NEVER shot porn, bondage or erotica.  I have never asked a model to open her legs or asked for a PSFB.  I have never had a model use a toy or masturbate or simulate a sex act in anyway.

That is not to say I will spend that on anyone.  I would expect experience, professionalism and a look that is consent with my needs.  There are models with whom I plan to shoot and I offered $100, they accepted, and feel like I got a deal.  There are others who have graciously worked for me for far less that, but they charge others the hundred or more.  Other models want far more than a hundred.  One that contacted me recently has asked for $150 (2 hour minimum- or was it four?).  I seriously doubt I could get her to come down on that because she has something to bring to the table that is very rare on MM.  Maybe she is over priced.  Maybe not.  She doesn't do nudes or erotica, either.

I understand that the one or two hours I am paying for also represents some communication time, often substantial travel time, and out of pocket expenses.  As a self employed person with employees, no one is paying me to do quarterly and yearly employer tax reports.  No one is paying me to write proposals for my customers, which often take more than a day.  I depend on getting a decent hourly rate for paying jobs to cover the overhead costs.  I can not see how a reasonable business man would expect it to be any different for models. 

You seem to think that the market you are in, and the business type you run, should translate to other people, in other markets, in other businesses. 

I have regretted paying one model a hundred an hour (actually, it was discounted for a long day so it came out closer to $75).  I have regretted paying far less money to many more models.  Sometimes you get what you pay for.  Sometimes you get a bargain.

sarah tonin wrote:
I'm sorry, but am I the only one on this site who thinks its unacceptable when a photographer completely stops responding to messages, when you are trying to set a shoot up?

To be a little more specific, the photographers are always the ones who approach me first. When it comes in to discussing rates, the type of shoot, and possible dates, some photographers just decide to stop responding. Quite honestly, I am fed up with it.

If you do this, I believe you should stop playing games and have some common courtesy.

When I started here in MM I would message some of the best models available in my area asking for rates. Then they would answer with a high figure and then I ended up answering like a fool: "I'm sorry, I think you're worth that money but I can't justify the expense. Thanks anyway for responding to my message". I suppose, most of guys would love to work with you (they contacted you after all) but once they realize it cannot happen then they have to find a way to walk away gracefully. Much easier for them to just avoid further communication than excusing themselves for thinking they could afford you.

That's just a guess though but it might be something other than your rates. Hard to say who's being unreasonable here without knowing the specifics. If this is happening too often to you then you might want to review your process.

L o n d o n   F o g wrote:

And this doesn't prove a damn thing, other than anyone can ask for what they want - question is who will pay that kind of cash, unless it's serious erotica, porn or something on that level.

Um, plenty of photographers have paid me that kind of cash, and *gasp* I have never ever shot porn (and never will). Plenty of photographers out there who offer more than minimum wage to their models lol

sarah tonin wrote:
I'm sorry, but am I the only one on this site who thinks its unacceptable when a photographer completely stops responding to messages, when you are trying to set a shoot up?

To be a little more specific, the photographers are always the ones who approach me first. When it comes in to discussing rates, the type of shoot, and possible dates, some photographers just decide to stop responding. Quite honestly, I am fed up with it.

If you do this, I believe you should stop playing games and have some common courtesy.

It helps to think of the whole process as a funnel.... lots of inquiries at the top, and as it gets down to booking real shoots, the number of photographers get smaller.  Just try to look at it as a cost of doing business... the cost is your time.  Some of those people pop back up and end up booking and some don't.  Try not to let it bug you!!

sarah tonin wrote:
Um, plenty of photographers have paid me that kind of cash, and *gasp* I have never ever shot porn (and never will). Plenty of photographers out there who offer more than minimum wage to their models lol

+1

I'm so tired of the association between X dollars = porn on this site. 

My rates start at 100/hr and I am not shooting porn or anything explicit.  People have been paying me that since 2008 when I started modeling.

sarah tonin wrote:
I'm sorry, but am I the only one on this site who thinks its unacceptable when a photographer completely stops responding to messages, when you are trying to set a shoot up?

Bad manners are simply not acceptable. Happened to me once, we were working along and setting up the shoot, discussing wardrobe, details, etc, and then a week or so before the shoot . . . * crickets *

I suppose this is the photog version of flaking. It’s only happened once to me.

MoRina wrote:
I'm so tired of the association between X dollars = porn on this site. 

My rates start at 100/hr and I am not shooting porn or anything explicit.  People have been paying me that since 2008 when I started modeling.

Right. Silly that one photographer doesn’t pay this so he thinks nobody else does, either.

Unless it’s porn. [eyeroll]

Farenell Photography wrote:

This is a smart move & I try to do something along these lines as well.

I do follow up, and sometimes that still doesn't even elicit a response.

sarah tonin wrote:
I do follow up, and sometimes that still doesn't even elicit a response.

There you go, you have a response...No.
Move on and don't dwell on it.

MoRina wrote:
It helps to think of the whole process as a funnel.... lots of inquiries at the top, and as it gets down to booking real shoots, the number of photographers get smaller.  Just try to look at it as a cost of doing business... the cost is your time.  Some of those people pop back up and end up booking and some don't.  Try not to let it bug you!!

words of wisdom.

Farenell Photography wrote:

Don't feel bad. It happens with us photographers too.

& in all honesty, MM's messaging system may have been good 9-10 years ago when people were still using mostly desktops & laptops but is incredibly poor for today's usage. Lord help you if you're on a mobile device. Why they've not develop an app for the major phone providers even though the members have repeatedly asked for one since 2010 is not earlier is beyond me.

OP, I'd recommend somewhere in future communique to offer photographers a way to contact you off MM whether its texting or regular email address or via a FB page. (I feel like MM's messaging system is that bad)

All this site really needs is a refreshed revamp and I believe more people would be utilizing it. It looks like Plenty of Fish in layout and operation or something from 1999.

Abbitt Photography wrote:
In my experience when someone stops communicating, it's usually because they are no longer seriously interested.  I find time spent trying to re-engage that person is almost always wasted time.   Better to focus your time and energy on someone else who is compatible and interested. 

Whether the photographer stopped communicating because he thinks your rates are too high, doesn't like some other condition you have, found another model or had something else come up in his life doesn't really matter.  The fact is, if he stopped communicating, he's probably no longer interested.  Some people who are initially interested in booking you will lose interest for a variety of reasons.  Move on.

And as mentioned before, it truly is because they don't want to get into a discussion about your rates, and sometimes they may feel slighted as their work could be something THEY would be charging you to be in...things of that nature.

Abbitt Photography wrote:
In my experience when someone stops communicating, it's usually because they are no longer seriously interested.  I find time spent trying to re-engage that person is almost always wasted time.   Better to focus your time and energy on someone else who is compatible and interested. 

Whether the photographer stopped communicating because he thinks your rates are too high, doesn't like some other condition you have, found another model or had something else come up in his life doesn't really matter.  The fact is, if he stopped communicating, he's probably no longer interested.  Some people who are initially interested in booking you will lose interest for a variety of reasons.  Move on.

I started from an era before internet models and agencies.  Agencies or individual models would call, drop by and show a book and leave a head sheet.  If I liked and saw a possibility of a client shoot, I'd ask a model for a test shoot.  If he or she would respond in a positive manner, we'd do a discussed test shoot.  If things worked out they always got first choice when a 'paying client' was around.  IF they chose not to test it's likely the headsheet would find it's way into my trash.  After all the model and I had worked together so it was a comfortable situation, and I then owed them the nod.  Occasionally one of the agencies would call me to send over a new model for me to work with.  Apparently I was easy to work with and had some great ideas, so I got new stuff and they did too. 

I still try to work that way and a couple of the models in my port have done commercial assignments with me while some have to wait for the right gig.  When I hire them, sometimes I can offer typical agency rates ($200+_) but sometimes less has to do.

Lately, I've had issues with models starting the conversation, but never follow through or in one case never show for the shoot--not a word!  So if they never communicate, or do a TFP shoot--I probably won't trust them when a paying gig comes around.  I have to work safe and delete their info!