Dan K Photography wrote:
If you are running it as a business the annoying client discussed in the OP should not be a problem. It is part of closing the deal. There is no business that deals with clients that doesn't have annoying customers.

Within reason of course.

+1

Business people should not complain about customers or suppliers. They have to find ways to handle them.

Lieza Nova wrote:
Eh, it kind of depends on what people are ranting about. Petty crap... Yeah, that's annoying. A bride not telling the photographer that she wants a specific shot and then refusing to pay because the photographer didn't read her mind... That's rant worthy.

No. That's business as usual.
A good wedding photographer should know better what the bride (and the bride groom) wants than the bride herself...
Because that is an important part of his job. A professional photographer is an expert. (Or at least should be...)

He should show his customers options the customers not even knew they exist. At least they have to dig out and understand what the specific customer really wants.

If he cannot do so the customers could hire Uncle Harry as well...

All Yours Photography wrote:
I have learned that with some models, if I ask 4 questions in one email, they will answer only one of them, leaving me to either ask the other 3 questions again.

ADHD. Widespread. Especially among "generation smartphone".

Julie Ann NYC wrote:
1-3 are negotiable if the shoot is compensated.

Derek Ridgers wrote:
I first read this last week and something seemed a little amiss. In particular (and I’m struggling not to slip into the area of critique here) the bit about bad lighting and Photoshop.

I also saw what you wrote on the Accomplishments, Achievements and High Fives forum which does explain things a little.

IMHO with (1) (2) (3) you need to be a bit less picky than you are currently being.

And know that (6) even very talented photographers have to start somewhere and (7) English won’t be everyone’s first language and (9) some extremely good work is being done in this exact area - cheesy but intentionally so.

I have no argument whatsoever with (4) (5) (8).

It appears to me that she is talking about trade shoots.  For trade shoots, her standards should be much more  strict than for paid shoots.

TomFRohwer wrote:

No. That's business as usual.
A good wedding photographer should know better what the bride (and the bride groom) wants than the bride herself...
Because that is an important part of his job. A professional photographer is an expert. (Or at least should be...)

He should show his customers options the customers not even knew they exist. At least they have to dig out and understand what the specific customer really wants.

If he cannot do so the customers could hire Uncle Harry as well...

Tom, I must respectfully disagree with your statement.  I've been shooting weddings for the better part of 25 years and from the start have required a shot list from my clients for images they desire from their wedding.  Even then , I have to explain that I can ask and ask but if no one complies, the shot may not be captured. 

No one can read anyone else's mind.  I get the shot list and insist on a review with the client to go over it.  Having done so, I've found myself having to say "Oh Hell no!"  to expectations of being suspended from a crane or shoot from the house rooftop, just two actual examples of what was dreamt up by clients.  I'd agree that the standard shots of bride with this person and that are favorites but since the inception of sites like Pinterest, expectations have been getting stranger by the day.  It's no longer shooting a wedding.  It's now more like shooting a red carpet event with every bell and whistle expected and no one wanting to pay for the services desired. 

Just yesterday I interviewed a couple who expected the grand amount of coverage and had budgeted a whole $500 for photography.  They expected a bridal shoot with bridesmaids (including a boudoir shoot for all four bridesmaids) at a classy hotel, a "gentlemen's night out shoot", parents of both parties individual shoots at their homes, the wedding itself and the reception for that hefty sum.  When I explained that the boudoir shoot alone for that many ladies exceeded their budget they became a little less "classy" and told me I must be new to wedding photography.  So much for knowing what the client expects off the cuff as a professional.

Best of luck to you in all you do.

TomFRohwer wrote:

No. That's business as usual.
A good wedding photographer should know better what the bride (and the bride groom) wants than the bride herself...
Because that is an important part of his job. A professional photographer is an expert. (Or at least should be...)

He should show his customers options the customers not even knew they exist. At least they have to dig out and understand what the specific customer really wants.

If he cannot do so the customers could hire Uncle Harry as well...

Nobody can read minds and vendors shouldn't be expected to. That's just ridiculous. If a customer isn't willing to ask for exactly what they want, they run the risk of not getting it. And it's 110% the customers fault.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
It appears to me that she is talking about trade shoots.  For trade shoots, her standards should be much more  strict than for paid shoots.

I’m not reading it that way at all but, either way, that’s not the point I’m trying to make here.

My point is (and I’m speaking generally here) if you’ve been a model for a long time and you don’t have much good work, you might need to relax your high standards a little and see if that doesn’t bring better rewards.

I would NEVER advise a model to work with anyone displaying racist, rude, lewd or sexist inclinations whether compensated or not. 

But to “write off” photographers for lacking experience or having poor communication skills is not always wise. 

This is even more the case if your portfolio shows examples of stuff you claim to hate.

And that photographer you rejected for lack of experience might just turn out to be the new Ryan McGinley or Olivia Bee.

Derek Ridgers wrote:
I’m not reading it that way at all but, either way, that’s not the point I’m trying to make here.

My point is (and I’m speaking generally here) if you’ve been a model for a long time and you don’t have much good work, you might need to relax your high standards a little and see if that doesn’t bring better rewards.

I would NEVER advise a model to work with anyone displaying racist, rude, lewd or sexist inclinations whether compensated or not. 

But to “write off” photographers for lacking experience or having poor communication skills is not always wise. 

This is even more the case if your portfolio shows examples of stuff you claim to hate.

And that photographer you rejected for lack of experience might just turn out to be the new Ryan McGinley or Olivia Bee.

I am trying to take it the way she said it.  I believe she made a distinction between paid and TF work.  We have all read the threads expressing the models' opinion of how poorly TF goes for the model.  Poor quality, unusable prints, if any, ever.   Not that every guy that shoots TF is on the negative side of the scale, but the very real possibility of poor results demand a bit of a cautious attitude.

I see that Julie Ann has had an MM account for nearly 11 years.  I don't know of any way of determining how active she was in that period.  I did notice that the oldest picture in her port is less than two months old.  (I may have missed something older).   I did remember her posting about "coming back", so I checked the history.  https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19686429
(I commend her for not using shots from her earlier days.)

If she has some of what she hates in her port; isn't that an indication that she has not been selective enough in the last couple of months?  She is using what was provided.  No obvious selfies.  True, she may miss the opportunity to work with the next great artist, but it seems on par with playing the lottery.  You may only buy a handful of tickets before you get the "one", or you may buy them your entire life and never hit it.  Of course, you can't win if you don't play.   Unless modeling is a hobby, a model needs to strike a balance between the paid work and TF that will pay the rent.

Like she said, reasonable minds may disagree.  Your point is taken and understood.  We have different perspectives.

Todd Meredith wrote:

Tom, I must respectfully disagree with your statement.

I think it to be self-evident to respect disagreeing opinions and views... ;-)

I've been shooting weddings for the better part of 25 years and from the start have required a shot list from my clients for images they desire from their wedding.  Even then , I have to explain that I can ask and ask but if no one complies, the shot may not be captured. 

No one can read anyone else's mind.

I am shooting weddings and portraits of private customers occasionally beside my main work. Which in the field of photography is journalistic coverage, public relations material and similar stuff. I do this "side work" for some 25 years. It runs the way people calling "Hey, I've seen you shot X's wedding and I like these pictures. My sister will get married next month so I would like to ask..."

I handle these assignments as any other assignment. As a photographer it is my job to help my customers getting the best result which is possible regarding their needs and possibilities. For me this is basic.

Of course nowbody can read other people's mind. But with a little bit of experience you have quite good chances to tickle out of your customers what the really like/want/need. This is an active process. I never would rely just on information which is given to me. I have to ask, I have to go on and on until I think I have really got what my customer really wants/likes/needs.

Foremost this means that I know that when it comes to weddings (or private portraits) most people do not know what they want. They want "beautiful photographs"...

Okay... that means that I have to go deeper. Most often these people have many things to consider and the wedding photographs are definitely not item Nº1. So they are happy when the can delegate this stuff.

So my point is: it's not enough to ask people "what do you want?" Because most people do no know about all ideas that might be fine.

This is the point with a newspaper photo editor too, by the way. I would be starving if I would say "Sorry, but you do not told me that you also wanted a photograph of this guy on his 200ft yacht just laying in the harbour when you gave me the assignment to photograph billionäire John Doe during his stay in Nice! How should I know this?"

A good photo editor would just answer "Tom - I hired your brain. Not just your cameras... I thought this to be self evident."

Of course he's completely right.

I once shot a wedding and while I was shooting I heard en passant that a distant uncle and his wife had travelled from far away to attend this wedding. I heard some words like "favorite uncle" and "they have not met for almost 10 years" and so. So when I had a few minutes idle time I grabbed them and improvised a little portrait session.

My customers were delighted when they saw the extra benefit. All included of course. ;-)

I get the shot list and insist on a review with the client to go over it.  Having done so, I've found myself having to say "Oh Hell no!"  to expectations of being suspended from a crane or shoot from the house rooftop, just two actual examples of what was dreamt up by clients.

No matter whether you are willing to be suspended from a crane (and no matter who pays for that crane...) it is sufficient communication. Customer has an idea/a wish. Photographer's job is to make it happen or to deny.

I'd agree that the standard shots of bride with this person and that are favorites but since the inception of sites like Pinterest, expectations have been getting stranger by the day.  It's no longer shooting a wedding.  It's now more like shooting a red carpet event with every bell and whistle expected and no one wanting to pay for the services desired.

First thing I try to understand when I am doing jobs for private customers is their "personal style". Some people want "conservative, classic" photographs. No experiments. Other are happy to get "something different".

I always check "What do you want to do with these pictures?" Do they want to make a kind of "coffeetable book" from the pictures?  Then I can shoot some additional "layout material". Still lifes.

But... what if my customer says "Oh, no, not necessary, we won't do this"? Whatever! Bet they will change their mind afterwards? So: here's the folder with some beautiful still lifes for your layout.

Just as an example.

Just yesterday I interviewed a couple who expected the grand amount of coverage and had budgeted a whole $500 for photography.  They expected a bridal shoot with bridesmaids (including a boudoir shoot for all four bridesmaids) at a classy hotel, a "gentlemen's night out shoot", parents of both parties individual shoots at their homes, the wedding itself and the reception for that hefty sum.  When I explained that the boudoir shoot alone for that many ladies exceeded their budget they became a little less "classy" and told me I must be new to wedding photography.  So much for knowing what the client expects off the cuff as a professional.

Completely different point. Of course you have to explain to your customer what he can expect for what money...

But as always: my brain and my experience is included. If they like to pay $500 I will either kindly reject the job or I will find a solution to bring some of their wishes and $500 under one hat.

Lieza Nova wrote:
Nobody can read minds and vendors shouldn't be expected to. That's just ridiculous.

I disagree respectfully...  ;-)
A certain ability for "mind reading" is the most important requirement for a successful business... The more you are able to understand your customers the more success you will have. And this indeed includes some "mind reading". "Mind reading" in this regard often just means: "I can show you some fine things you never thought about. I think about things you forgot." *

Because I am the expert who knows these fine things.

If a customer isn't willing to ask for exactly what they want, they run the risk of not getting it.

Of course they do. But that's not the point.

An unsatisfied customer is just the worst case scenario in business. This should never ever happen.

And it's 110% the customers fault.

That's not the point, too. It is not about "fault". Business is never about "fault". It's about satisfied and happy customers.

*) Years ago I called a pc hardware store and ordered a lot of parts to built a new computer. The lady on the phone wrote down all that stuff and then asked: "Do you do not need a graphic adapter? Or do you just forgot it?"

*eek* I just forgot it. So thank you very much, unknown lady on the phone, that you tried some low level mind reading... ;-)

All Yours Photography wrote:
I have learned that with some models, if I ask 4 questions in one email, they will answer only one of them, leaving me to either ask the other 3 questions again.

+1

I have also learned that there seems to be an amazing number of models who do not drive or own an automobile. Since I live in a town with just a handful of models, most of those I have worked with are either traveling models or live 1-2 hours away. We do not have great public transit. Maybe I am doing it wrong but my initial contact is to gauge interest and availability *before* I write out a long dissertation on concepts, pay etc., only to find out they can't even get to me.

Dan K Photography wrote:
If you are running it as a business the annoying client discussed in the OP should not be a problem. It is part of closing the deal. There is no business that deals with clients that doesn't have annoying customers.

Within reason of course.

this...just think to yourself...you COULD be cutting grass for a living, or working at McDonalds. You're modeling. If you're getting paid regularly, these are first world problems.

TomFRohwer wrote:

Lieza Nova wrote:
Nobody can read minds and vendors shouldn't be expected to. That's just ridiculous.

I disagree respectfully...  ;-)
A certain ability for "mind reading" is the most important requirement for a successful business... The more you are able to understand your customers the more success you will have. And this indeed includes some "mind reading". "Mind reading" in this regard often just means: "I can show you some fine things you never thought about. I think about things you forgot." *

Because I am the expert who knows these fine things.

If a customer isn't willing to ask for exactly what they want, they run the risk of not getting it.

Of course they do. But that's not the point.

An unsatisfied customer is just the worst case scenario in business. This should never ever happen.

That's not the point, too. It is not about "fault". Business is never about "fault". It's about satisfied and happy customers.

*) Years ago I called a pc hardware store and ordered a lot of parts to built a new computer. The lady on the phone wrote down all that stuff and then asked: "Do you do not need a graphic adapter? Or do you just forgot it?"

*eek* I just forgot it. So thank you very much, unknown lady on the phone, that you tried some low level mind reading... ;-)

Years ago, I worked as a diamond broker and would supply diamonds and appraise for custom jewelers. I had a couple who told us their budget and, after they chose a setting, they had about $5k for a stone. It had to be close to a 1 carat. We talked about color, as it applies to white diamonds and, while fancies were brought up, the bride didn't show a single bit of interest. She was shown a chart, with yellow, pink and blue diamonds. She focused on white diamonds and changed the subject when I brought up canaries. So, I brought in white diamonds that fit their budget. The bride was furious. Absolutely livid. Threatening bodily harm kind of angry. I only brought in white diamonds. Apparently, she wanted to see vivid canaries and pinks. These stones were well outside of her budget but I was supposed to somehow know that she wanted to see them, even when she showed zero interest in them during the process. Okay...

These jewelers would also get bitched out for custom designs that were EXACTLY what the customer allegedly wanted. A lot of them had an Auto CAD program specifically for jewellers and could render 3D images of the design. They were dead on and beautiful work, but the customers changed their mind, failed to tell the jeweler and then threw a fit over it. These were huge changes, like a different metal or stone shape, and things that needed to be communicated before everybody wasted a lot of time and money. I know that these guys called customers right before they started their piece, so there was plenty of opportunity to bring it up. I called one during the process, because I lucked into finding a stone that I thought they'd like better with the platinum setting. A week later, they were threatening a lawsuit, because they decided that they really wanted yellow gold instead and didn't tell anybody. These people knew they were going to be unhappy, but just didn't bother to say anything and then blamed the jeweller.

All of these were situations that illustrate my statement of "If you're not willing to ask for what you want, you run the risk of not getting it."  In my case, these customers had already cost hundreds, if not thousands of dollars in loss (shipping, insurance, materials, wages, etc.) Simple fact finding questions or anticipating customer needs isn't going to sniff out that a bride, who has no interest in or budget for fancy diamonds, is going to have a temper tantrum when we don't bring in $2 million in inventory... Just in case.

JT99 wrote:
The very first photographer to offer me a gig from my Model Mayhem profile was someone who characterized himself as a "semi-professional male who specializes in frank photography of the human body".  While I'm fine with erotic work if it has legitimate artistic value, he then went on to explain that he had lugged his lighting equipment and camera to a nearby hotel room, and he wanted to do the shoot there, as he didn't have enough money to pay for a studio.  He also explained that, while I would be clothed for part of the shoot, he eventually wanted me to arouse myself and ejaculate on camera.  And that the photos would be for "his private portfolio, but I could post them to mine too if I wanted".

I'm not sure how many warning bells exist out there, but I'm pretty sure this set off every single one of them.  Of course, when I told him what I thought of his plan, he was extremely angry, insisting that it is legitimate art and the hotel room offers a "better, more realistic" setting for his erotic art than a studio.  He also relayed the "at least a dozen or so" models that have worked with him so far.  Yeah, no thanks.

That's inappropriate for him to have even asked that of you. If you listed "erotic...edgy..pushing conventional boundaries" or something to that effect on your account, I could see him easing into that request after making initial introductions (but well in advance of said project of course)

And if he could get those models, why was he having a snit fit at you?

Ugh.. I just hate that. From my end it's this feeling that they are slowly getting something out of you, a conquest they get off on. If he wants that level of graphic, he can post on appropriate sites and just lay it out there. There's people who would actually be interested and both parties enjoy a mutually freaky fun (for them) experience. But no...it's this "lets see what I can get away with, can I chip at this person's boundaries " that's part of the equation that turns a "frank" photographer into a creeper.

Jpod_model wrote:
That's inappropriate for him to have even asked that of you. If you listed "erotic...edgy..pushing conventional boundaries" or something to that effect on your account, I could see him easing into that request after making initial introductions (but well in advance of said project of course)

And if he could get those models, why was he having a snit fit at you?

Ugh.. I just hate that. From my end it's this feeling that they are slowly getting something out of you, a conquest they get off on. If he wants that level of graphic, he can post on appropriate sites and just lay it out there. There's people who would actually be interested and both parties enjoy a mutually freaky fun (for them) experience. But no...it's this "lets see what I can get away with, can I chip at this person's boundaries " that's part of the equation that turns a "frank" photographer into a creeper.

Thanks, I'm glad to hear your agreement, and sorry to hear about your own stories.  All I can say is, wow.  I'm not one to advocate for the stereotypical supermodel "diva" attitude, but surely a modicum of professionalism isn't too much to expect from photographers.  I suppose it only takes a few bad ones to ruin it for everyone else.  Can certainly see why you're thinking about giving most gigs up.

When he first asked about "the pose" (over email, we never met in person), for a while I thought maybe I should go through with it.  I'm actually a very shy and modest person (strange for a nude figure model, I know), and thought that sort of thing was just what would be expected of me in this industry.  And to be fair, if he had a legit gallery, or references, or professional models that could vouch that his work truly was artistic and not pornographic, I possibly would.  But he had none of those, and never even intended to publish or use the work.  Glad I passed.

On a related note, I think I'd better drop the comment in my profile that I'm "looking for female models to learn from and work with".  While that's true - I'm hoping to stand out from the crowd a bit with such experience - it makes me sound as bad as some of the people we've talked about here.

JT99 wrote:
I'm actually a very shy and modest person (strange for a nude figure model, I know),

That doesn't sound oxymoronic at all. I've done figure modeling for painters, sculptors, college classes, and group practice figure sessions. I've also monitored group sessions. I've spent many hours drawing the model too.  It's not really about being "out there" and an exhibitionist. For that kind of work, it's a quietly intense, focused, and disciplined environment for everyone on both sides of the easel... if they are taking the proper attitude and approach. (Yeah, I know some newer alt groups hire strippers/burlesque dancers, have wine and beer and play rock/pop music. The only advantage I can remotely think of is maybe if there's some colorful and interesting costumes...but overall that adds up to a mass distraction from the work itself. I wouldn't be able to tolerate it as a teacher, student, or model.)  That never felt like sexytimes or being racy. It's just my "naked suit" so people have a chance to draw human gestures, bones, muscles, fat, shadow and light. Resulting work could be sensual, but that's usually more about the drawing style of the artist.

Jpod_model wrote:
That doesn't sound oxymoronic at all. I've done figure modeling for painters, sculptors, college classes, and group practice figure sessions. I've also monitored group sessions. I've spent many hours drawing the model too.  It's not really about being "out there" and an exhibitionist. For that kind of work, it's a quietly intense, focused, and disciplined environment for everyone on both sides of the easel... if they are taking the proper attitude and approach. That never felt like sexytimes or being racy. It's just my "naked suit" so people have a chance to draw human gestures, bones, muscles, fat, shadow and light. Resulting work could be sensual, but that's usually more about the drawing style of the artist.

Thank you once more, I appreciate that.  I have to admit that I have had doubts about pursuing this.  At the risk of sounding self-denigrating, I'm never going to have six pack abs or be mistaken for a supermodel.  And as a Christian I've tussled with the question of whether it's moral to pose completely naked in front of others.  I've finally decided that, if the artist(s) are interested in drawing me, and if they are doing so to study human anatomy or to create art, then not only is there nothing wrong with it, it's actually a good thing.  But I haven't always felt that way - having deleted my profile and photos multiple times over the past year - and that photographer contacting me two days ago, asking if he could photograph my ejaculation, nearly caused me to do so again.

It's just good to know that there most calling themselves artists, photographers and models are in it for the right reasons...but as with anything else, you must use common sense.

Derek Ridgers wrote:
I first read this last week and something seemed a little amiss. In particular (and I’m struggling not to slip into the area of critique here) the bit about bad lighting and Photoshop.

I also saw what you wrote on the Accomplishments, Achievements and High Fives forum which does explain things a little.

IMHO with (1) (2) (3) you need to be a bit less picky than you are currently being.

And know that (6) even very talented photographers have to start somewhere and (7) English won’t be everyone’s first language and (9) some extremely good work is being done in this exact area - cheesy but intentionally so.

I have no argument whatsoever with (4) (5) (8).

I'm not sure what you're trying to say but I didn't realize this was a critique forum.

Anyway, yes. I started as a straight-size fashion model years back and got some great gigs and tearsheets. I no longer use those images in my book because my look has changed and I don't want to mislead photographers or clients.

I've only been actively shooting as a plus model for a few months and in that time, got picked up by an agency and am in the process of re-doing my book. Obviously, my standards for TF and paid work are different and may change based on what I need at the moment.

As I shoot more, I'm going to cull my port down and may post a topic to get feedback on what needs to stay and what needs to go.

Julie Ann NYC wrote:
I'm not sure what you're trying to say but I didn't realize this was a critique forum.

Anyway, yes. I started as a straight-size fashion model years back and got some great gigs and tearsheets. I no longer use those images in my book because my look has changed and I don't want to mislead photographers or clients.

I've only been actively shooting as a plus model for a few months and in that time, got picked up by an agency and am in the process of re-doing my book. Obviously, my standards for TF and paid work are different and may change based on what I need at the moment.

As I shoot more, I'm going to cull my port down and may post a topic to get feedback on what needs to stay and what needs to go.

I thought about this for a week.  And I was bending over backwards to try to be helpful and struggled not slip into any area that could be construed as a critique. 

Apologies if I didn’t struggle hard enough.

What you were saying and what you were showing appeared to me to show certain anomalies.  And because of that, I thought you might consider being less picky in one or two of the areas you listed.

That’s all.  PM me if you want me to be specific and I promise I’ll be only positive.

John Jebbia  wrote:
I'm local to you, so chances are I know who you're talking about.

This issue goes both ways. If I'm not able to nail down a time/place/theme/terms with a model within 2-3 messages back and forth, I move on. No hard feelings.. I don't go off on her or anything like that. I just move onto the next one and forget about that one..

Agree with John on this one. Too many want to be "pen pals". No offense, but as a sole proprieter, I just don't have time for that.

Alot ask for info, that they could find posted and was provided in my initial email to them.

Like John, I find it easier to just dismiss them and move on.

Hey, some people like to text alot.

Mikel M. Louder
MML Photo

Eye of the World wrote:
I have also learned that there seems to be an amazing number of models who do not drive or own an automobile. Since I live in a town with just a handful of models, most of those I have worked with are either traveling models or live 1-2 hours away. We do not have great public transit. Maybe I am doing it wrong but my initial contact is to gauge interest and availability *before* I write out a long dissertation on concepts, pay etc., only to find out they can't even get to me.

my situation too

my first query is:

this is where I am - can you get here??

if it's not a problem..THEN I will reply back with details

no point wasting someone's life if they can't even get here

JT99 wrote:

Thanks, I'm glad to hear your agreement, and sorry to hear about your own stories.  All I can say is, wow.  I'm not one to advocate for the stereotypical supermodel "diva" attitude, but surely a modicum of professionalism isn't too much to expect from photographers.  I suppose it only takes a few bad ones to ruin it for everyone else.  Can certainly see why you're thinking about giving most gigs up.

When he first asked about "the pose" (over email, we never met in person), for a while I thought maybe I should go through with it.  I'm actually a very shy and modest person (strange for a nude figure model, I know), and thought that sort of thing was just what would be expected of me in this industry.  And to be fair, if he had a legit gallery, or references, or professional models that could vouch that his work truly was artistic and not pornographic, I possibly would.  But he had none of those, and never even intended to publish or use the work.  Glad I passed.

On a related note, I think I'd better drop the comment in my profile that I'm "looking for female models to learn from and work with".  While that's true - I'm hoping to stand out from the crowd a bit with such experience - it makes me sound as bad as some of the people we've talked about here.

Sir, if a photographer is a MM member and asks you to arouse yourself then ejaculate that is against site rules. You should CAM and file a complaint. If you have any proof he will be kicked off the site.  That request is never appropriate.

JT99 wrote:
Had another bad experience just this week.

Monday: photographer contacts me.  "Available for a shoot at 6pm Friday at xyz location?"  We agree on it over email, and get all the details ironed out.

Fast forward to Friday. Get a text message from the photographer at 2:30 pm: "I might be a little late, my flight in Dallas was delayed 30 minutes".  Ok, no problem, that happens, I tell him.  I text at 4, 4:30 and 4:45 to reconfirm.  No response, so I call.  Straight to voice mail.  Figure he's en-route.  So I leave work early to make the 75 minute drive so I'll be there in time.

Get there 10 minutes late; text him ahead of time to let him know.  No response.  Arrive at the location.  No response at the door.  Sit there till 6:45, and try him every few minutes.  No response.  Finally, at 7:30, while I'm still sitting there: "Oh, sorry, I'm still at the Dallas airport, guess we'll have to postpone."  Asks to reschedule to literally the only day in June I cannot make work.  I tell him...his reply is "It's too bad you aren't flexible; I'll find someone else."

Yeah.

Sounds like a scammer.