Ionalynn wrote:
I use email, email has a record

what do you mean? text doesn't?

Ionalynn wrote:
TXT has the implication that someone can txt me at any time.... 3 am.... just to chit chat.... no.

True indeed, though someone can still email at 3 am ... just to chit chat. but i get your point. I guess i will be asking for email then as i am not here to chit chat. funny part though is that some models straight up gave their number before i even got there

unpetitvoyou wrote:
True indeed, though someone can still email at 3 am ... just to chit chat. but i get your point. I guess i will be asking for email then as i am not here to chit chat. funny part though is that some models straight up gave their number before i even got there

The internet-based modeling/photography world has changed tremendously over the past decade. In 2010 or so, if you didn't provide your phone number fairly quickly and engage in a phone call, you were not considered serious. Not providing a phone number quickly enough was looked upon as a model faux pas. Today, it's almost the opposite. Similarly, it used to be taboo for models to be active on social media, and the term "Facebook model" was (quite literally) a condescending term and a joke. Today, models almost have to be on Facebook. If you are primarily interacting with models who've been online for awhile, you're likely to experience some more "outdated" behavior, though this behavior may have been common practice during the years they started modeling.

Koryn wrote:
In general, I feel like a shoot should be planned and decided within the time it takes to exchange 3-5 comprehensive emails.

Totally agree

Koryn wrote:
"What do your nails look like."

I see, but that doesn't really seem like a red flag to me. I usually have an idea of what poses I want prior to a shoot. Asking what your nail look like could mean anything from photog is bored and creepy to your nails might ruin my headshots if not clean or maybe i'd like you to paint them a certain color or so. A red flag would be for example, 'what are you doing', 'wanna hang out' or the likes.
5, 6 years ago i would like to hope that people weren't so deceptive about their actual looks

Koryn wrote:

The internet-based modeling/photography world has changed tremendously over the past decade. In 2010 or so, if you didn't provide your phone number fairly quickly and engage in a phone call, you were not considered serious. Not providing a phone number quickly enough was looked upon as a model faux pas. Today, it's almost the opposite. Similarly, it used to be taboo for models to be active on social media, and the term "Facebook model" was (quite literally) a condescending term and a joke. Today, models almost have to be on Facebook. If you are primarily interacting with models who've been online for awhile, you're likely to experience some more "outdated" behavior, though this behavior may have been common practice during the years they started modeling.

very insightful, thank you. I couldn't have seen it this way unless you mentioned

unpetitvoyou wrote:
Totally agree

I see, but that doesn't really seem like a red flag to me. I usually have an idea of what poses I want prior to a shoot. Asking what your nail look like could mean anything from photog is bored and creepy to your nails might ruin my headshots if not clean or maybe i'd like you to paint them a certain color or so. A red flag would be for example, 'what are you doing', 'wanna hang out' or the likes.
5, 6 years ago i would like to hope that people weren't so deceptive about their actual looks

If nails are an important part of the shoot, it should be asked in the initial contact email, along with other details pertinent to the content. In my experience, photographers who text with individual questions, who dwell on small details, tend to cancel the day before. They were not serious about shooting from the outset. It should be a cut and dried process, with no unnecessary complications.

As per "deceptive," the portfolio historically has existed to represent what the model can look like, with excellent lighting, good camera angles and post-work, not what she/he may look like on a daily basis. The portfolio should show you in your best light, both literally and figuratively. It represents a models' potential.

Koryn wrote:
As per "deceptive," the portfolio historically has existed to represent what the model can look like, with excellent lighting, good camera angles and post-work, not what she/he may look like on a daily basis. The portfolio should show you in your best light, both literally and figuratively. It represents a models' potential.

wow, I would still like to see what they look like on a daily basis though, just in case it is a lot more post-process work than i am willing to do. I always thought the processed pictures are for the viewers/consumers/clients not the photog. It could be stressful when a model shows up and looks nothing like the picture, blemishes, scars on the fore head, more weight and so. I get it though, emails look more 'professional' than text. hmm ok

unpetitvoyou wrote:

wow, I would still like to see what they look like on a daily basis though, just in case it is a lot more post-process work than i am willing to do. I always thought the processed pictures are for the viewers/consumers/clients not the photog. It could be stressful when a model shows up and looks nothing like the picture, blemishes, scars on the fore head, more weight and so. I get it though, emails look more 'professional' than text. hmm ok

If you are concerned about these things, ask for unedited cell phone snapshots of the model holding a sign with the current date written on it.

unpetitvoyou wrote:
I am pretty new here and in photography so i am not sure of proper etiquette. I messaged a couple models to shoot and they were willing to ... until i ask for phone number and the convo dies. am i just doing it wrong or dodging a bullet here? to put it in context, i come from ig where the level of flakiness is pretty damn high and to sum it up; [b]most models who exchanged numbers 100% showed up; ok with a certain degree of lateness but those i kept texting with on the platform till the day of shoot did not. What do you think?

I think You're dodging a bullet, why wouldn't someone want to speak on the telephone?  For Me, a reluctance to do so hints of scam, unless You know the Model personally.

FIFTYONE PHOTOGRAPHY wrote:

I think You're dodging a bullet, why wouldn't someone want to speak on the telephone?  For Me, a reluctance to do so hints of scam, unless You know the Model personally.

A lot of people in the world dislike phonecalls to anyone for anything for a number of reasons. I dont even want to get calls from my family or friends. The "chat all day long on the telephone" thing is dying out with newer generations. Text-based communications is where the world is turning, that's not inherently a signal of being scammed or not being serious or whatever. The older generations need to keep up or only shoot models who are as old as they are.


For any kind of work I'm doing I prefer to keep discussion in some form of writing, be it emails, MM mail, texting, FB messaging, etc so that I can always refer back to exactly what was said. It's nonsense for the both of us to sit there and try to take notes on exactly what each other said if we can both just have the original conversation in text form in the first place.

If all the details are in writing then I cant forget anything. I can double triple and quadruple check before I leave the house that I have every single thing in order.

There's also absolutely no room for any "I never said that!" nonsense if I have your and you have my original messages. There's no "you must have misheard me" or anything like that. Whatever you wrote is exactly what was said.

I'm also far less likely to lose an email, mm message, text message, etc than I am a piece of paper floating around somewhere. I still have emails from 2005, the mm messaging system is far more stable than it was a decade ago, i dont delete my texts and my phone is always backing up to the cloud anyway.

If you're using some sort of digital communication I can also very easily click right from the message onto a link to a persons profile, so I know exactly who I'm talking to / whos work this is in regards to. If I just take a quick note down from a phone convo I might not remember next week who Bill from California is or what his work looks like.

goofus  wrote:
all MM messages and/or email

I do exchange phone numbers after the shoot has been set so that they can txt me that *****their car broke down or grandmother passed away****** hours before the shoot, though

Which ironically happens a lot of MM...

Laura UnBound wrote:
A lot of people in the world dislike phonecalls to anyone for anything for a number of reasons. I dont even want to get calls from my family or friends. The "chat all day long on the telephone" thing is dying out with newer generations. Text-based communications is where the world is turning, that's not inherently a signal of being scammed or not being serious or whatever. The older generations need to keep up or only shoot models who are as old as they are.
.

Without knowing 100% who You are dealing with imo, and I'm not alone on this, it would be beneficial to hear a voice.

I've arranged quite a few shoots via text / messenger exclusively to date but only because I knew the Model, I'd scouted them locally.

Laura UnBound wrote:
A lot of people in the world dislike phonecalls to anyone for anything for a number of reasons. I dont even want to get calls from my family or friends. The "chat all day long on the telephone" thing is dying out with newer generations. Text-based communications is where the world is turning, that's not inherently a signal of being scammed or not being serious or whatever. The older generations need to keep up or only shoot models who are as old as they are.
.

Seriously, all the senior citizen photographers need to get over this "phone call" policy if your going to work with this new young generation of models.

Yosh Studio wrote:

Seriously, all the senior citizen photographers need to get over this "phone call" policy if your going to work with this new young generation of models.

Yeah the generation that gets run over by a bus walking into traffic with nose buried in phone
I will pass

FIFTYONE PHOTOGRAPHY wrote:

Without knowing 100% who You are dealing with imo, and I'm not alone on this, it would be beneficial to hear a voice.

I've arranged quite a few shoots via text / messenger exclusively to date but only because I knew the Model, I'd scouted them locally.

If someone is really intent on doing you some kind of wrong, they'll just get someone else in on it that can provide whatever voice you expect to be hearing.

I'm of course not saying that people can never and will never get tricked just because its never happened to me, but to date the most creepy/weird/inappropriate/unprofessional/potentially dangerous/etc encounters I've had have been with people who wanted to "build trust" with me or whatever by talking on the phone or doing pre-shoot meet ups. I had to call my phone provider way back when to block the number of the very first person to ever contact me on MM because dude wound up being a child predator, he wanted to call me so that we could "make sure we clicked" before scheduling a shoot.


I'm not shy with my number, once we start talking details and I'm fairly certain the shoot is actually going to happen, and I've made it clear and it appears to be understood that my number is for emergencies, I'll happily give it out without even being asked. When someones first message to me is "I want to shoot with you, call me (xxx) xxx- xxxx" ....no, not happening.

unpetitvoyou wrote:
I am pretty new here and in photography so i am not sure of proper etiquette. I messaged a couple models to shoot and they were willing to ... until i ask for phone number and the convo dies. am i just doing it wrong or dodging a bullet here? to put it in context, i come from ig where the level of flakiness is pretty damn high and to sum it up; most models who exchanged numbers 100% showed up; ok with a certain degree of lateness but those i kept texting with on the platform till the day of shoot did not. What do you think?

Go with your gut! I ask models for a good contact phone number and the best time to contact them. If they don't provide it then I assume that they have decided to pass on my inquiry and I seek another model. A little something that I learned in college "Garbage In Garbage Out"