Photographer
BTHPhoto
Posts: 6985
Fairbanks, Alaska, US
Why do so many models have wonderful classic figure and emotive portrait work in their credited photos, but only put "alt" and "urban" or cheesey "glamour" stuff in their portfolios? It's like a chef who makes gourmet food putting spray cheese and frozen tacos on their business cards.
Photographer
Concept Photo
Posts: 243
New York, New York, US
For many models, they consider the images that they post to best represent the way they look in a photographic picture.
For newer models, they simply want a photographer, et. al, to get a general sense of their attributes (e.g., hair color, body type, demeanor, etc.). From there, they can be booked by a photographer, who's doing work that's completely different in attitude, "quality," etc. Afterwards, they can demonstrate how they look in "higher quality" pictures or that they're versatile.
For other models, they are simply communicating that they are a part of a cultural community. What they're doing is no different from, say, models who emphasize that they are physically fit and athletic and indicate that they want to be booked for assignments concerning fitness, bodybuilding, athleticism, etc. Despite the fact that they have poise, grace, vitality, etc., and would be very suitable for fashion, art, acting, or lifestyle assignments, they seem to want only sports and fitness work.
Other models are subconsciously saying that they want to commission a photographer to do the same kinds of images they're already in. And possibly get paid for it, too. In a way, they are taking away the prerogative of the photographer to art direct their own work.
Photographer
Leonard Gee Photography
Posts: 18096
Sacramento, California, US
BTHPhoto wrote:
Why do so many models leave out their best work? most "mm members", they do not. they, in fact, post what they consider to be their "best" work.
now, models are a different matter. models who have agents get images picked generally by some someone who knows the market and the clients who pay regularly for talent. even agency represented models may not know. there are some agency and freelance artistic models who do know how to pick their own images; but almost all of them are seasoned, working models.
Photographer
Worlds Of Water
Posts: 37732
Rancho Cucamonga, California, US
Alot of times what happens is a photographer will visualize images they shot of a model as that models 'best work'... BUT IN REALITY... what that model decides to post on her MM portfolio REALLY IS her best work from A DIFFERENT photographer... 
Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 7504
New York, New York, US
We all have views of ourselves (or our work) that are different from the views of others.
For myself, I know that I suck at fetish but there are models who want it so I shoot it. Sometimes it turns out to be just what the model wants--it conveys just the look or message she wants conveyed. From her point of view it's a good picture, from mine, it's dreck, so she puts it in her portfolio (which I'll never understand) and I leave it out of mine (which she'll never understand. Therein lies the basis of artistic dialogue.
A IMHO as always, of course.
Model
MatureModelMM
Posts: 2843
Detroit, Michigan, US
Concept Photo wrote:
For many models, they consider the images that they post to best represent the way they look in a photographic picture. Rays Fine Art wrote:
We all have views of ourselves (or our work) that are different from the views of others.
For myself, I know that I suck at fetish but there are models who want it so I shoot it. Sometimes it turns out to be just what the model wants--it conveys just the look or message she wants conveyed. From her point of view it's a good picture, from mine, it's dreck, so she puts it in her portfolio (which I'll never understand) and I leave it out of mine (which she'll never understand. Therein lies the basis of artistic dialogue.
A IMHO as always, of course. Concept Photo and Ray both know what works for any individual is not universal. Models and the artists or photographers we work with can be on totally different pages about what they think is best. And both are right, for different reasons.
As a model, I am concerned more about conveying a certain look or message than always having photos which are technically perfect to display. I have a unique look, being 65 years old and natural. For the past 30 years I have chosen to work in specific genres that I feel I am best suited to that have proven over those years to be successful for me.
I specifically want to be presented as naked (as opposed to nude), exposed, and vulnerable and for those reasons I might like a photo which the photographer sees something about that keeps it from being great in their eyes, yet it's perfect for my needs. If the photographer or artist chooses not to use that same image, I really don't have any reason to be concerned. When working in genres such as erotic and fetish, the chances that both of us will agree on every pose and every image are pretty small.
And all of my very best work isn't necessarily even available to show in my portfolio. If it was done to be sold to a private collector who commissioned it or when I was paid to model for an art class or photographer, I may not be given any copies for my own use. I don't always get to see any or all of the photos or artwork resulting from such modelling sessions.
Photographer
FIFTYONE PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 6597
Uniontown, Pennsylvania, US
Someone once said the best image from a shoot may not reveal itself until 6 months after. I believe that to be a true statement as I look at what was immediately uploaded compared to others from the same set.
Model
MatureModelMM
Posts: 2843
Detroit, Michigan, US
FIFTYONE PHOTOGRAPHY wrote:
Someone once said the best image from a shoot may not reveal itself until 6 months after. I believe that to be a true statement as I look at what was immediately uploaded compared to others from the same set. Absolutely, and it might not happen until years later. Last year a photographer I worked several times with had been dumping the images off a computer onto an external drive in the process of getting a new computer. Some of the photos of me in various folders were several years old, and I was given the opportunity to sit down with him and review them again. As a result, each of us found other photos that we liked well enough to want to use now, but had overlooked or chosen not to use at the time they were made.
I have had that happen more than once, when I go back and look at photos or artwork that I was given a number of years ago and realize that there were more really good ones than I originally thought.
Photographer
Nor-Cal Photography
Posts: 3718
Walnut Creek, California, US
A somewhat different opinion. From my experience, many models have no idea what makes a good image. They only look at their face and pick the images where they "think" they look the best. They have little or no conception of lighting, cropping, background, contrast, and other facets of an image. But just one worthless opinion. 
Model
ClaytonCDavis
Posts: 46
Denton, Texas, US
Good point Nor-cal. It's good to have an objective opinion, if it's available.
Model
Model MoRina
Posts: 6638
MacMurdo - permanent station of the US, Sector claimed by New Zealand, Antarctica
Models don't always receive images from a shoot if they are paid, so the photographer can display them but the model can't.
Even in a TF situation the model may only receive a few images while the photographer retains the rest and may edit and post more over time but not necessarily send them to the model.
Many models prioritize posting recent images over their career bests. Or we post images in the genres which attract more shoot offers.
If a model is attracting all the work she desires there is no need to spend a lot of time and energy updating the portfolio here.
Many of us have social media presence in other places besides here.
Photographer
goofus
Posts: 808
Santa Barbara, California, US
very often.. a model will post a pix from our shoot that in no way I would choose for them
I look at their portfolio and think... really???? THAT one???
*shrug*
that's why I give the models the whole shoot to choose from- who am I to choose for them
Photographer
Andrew Bruce
Posts: 122
CLEARWATER BEACH, Florida, US
goofus wrote:
very often.. a model will post a pix from our shoot that in no way I would choose for them
I look at their portfolio and think... really???? THAT one???
*shrug*
that's why I give the models the whole shoot to choose from- who am I to choose for them They do this ALL the time. (Not all, but most). They will pick the so so shots from our shoots and post them in their portfolios, but not the stellar 450 likes/every compliments/comments on it ones.
Very bizarre.
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 10856
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
MatureModelMM wrote:
Absolutely, and it might not happen until years later. Last year a photographer I worked several times with had been dumping the images off a computer onto an external drive in the process of getting a new computer. Some of the photos of me in various folders were several years old, and I was given the opportunity to sit down with him and review them again. As a result, each of us found other photos that we liked well enough to want to use now, but had overlooked or chosen not to use at the time they were made.
I have had that happen more than once, when I go back and look at photos or artwork that I was given a number of years ago and realize that there were more really good ones than I originally thought. Or like better.
happens to me all the time.
"why the hell did I choose that one, when this one was available?"
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 10856
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Nor-Cal Photography wrote:
A somewhat different opinion.
From my experience, many models have no idea what makes a good image. They only look at their face and pick the images where they "think" they look the best. They have little or no conception of lighting, cropping, background, contrast, and other facets of an image.
But just one worthless opinion.
Not so much "no idea", which does happen, but a different point of view.
Models want images that sell them.
Photographers want images that sell the photograph, meaning the photographer.
Rarely are both one and the same, but it is a glorious day when that happens.
Photographer
Abbitt Photography
Posts: 13562
Washington, Utah, US
People have different reasons for being here. Not all "models" are here to sell themselves as models to photographers. Many use MM as just another social media outlet with no intent of doing any photo shoots with anyone.
I also second Herman's point. Photographers want to sell an image with a certain look, whereas many models want to promote they look a certain way. Those are often not the same thing. I think if you look at the experienced models who are booking numerous shoots here, you won't see many of the cheesy images you speak of, but those models are the minority of models here.
Photographer
Mark Salo
Posts: 11723
Olney, Maryland, US
Nor-Cal Photography wrote:
A somewhat different opinion.
From my experience, many models have no idea what makes a good image. They only look at their face and pick the images where they "think" they look the best. They have little or no conception of lighting, cropping, background, contrast, and other facets of an image.
But just one worthless opinion.
Herman Surkis wrote:
Not so much "no idea", which does happen, but a different point of view.
Models want images that sell them.
Photographers want images that sell the photograph, meaning the photographer.
Rarely are both one and the same, but it is a glorious day when that happens. I don't think that the situation can be so easily described.
Photographer:
1) doesn't know what is a good photograph
2) photographer has a technically correct photograph but doesn't do justice to the model
3) photographer does justice to the model but has some technical flaws
4) once in a blue moon everything comes together!
Model:
1) doesn't know what is a good photograph
2) model realizes that the photograph doesn't do her justice
3) model's image is realistic but she passes on it
4) model wants "alt" photos: very dark, gas mask, etc.
I've seen a headshot on a model's portfolio where her lower face was very small and her forehead was huge.
A well developed body builder whose poses made his shoulders look very narrow.
A normally proportioned model but her lower body was huge due to wide angle lens and photographed from a low viewpoint.
Both 2 & 3 had very dark faces, both argued strongly against these critiques.
Abbitt Photography wrote:
I think if you look at the experienced models who are booking numerous shoots here, you won't see many of the cheesy images you speak of, but those models are the minority of models here. +1
Photographer
Super Dimension Foto
Posts: 117
Portland, Oregon, US
For some modeling isn't about having a career as a model. It is about self expression. They're doing it for the art. Now you can go to any model agency website and see perfect examples of what kind of pictures should be in a model's portfolio.
Those pictures are about finding the model work. The one's in model's portfolio on Model Mayhem is about what they want to show the world.
Model
MatureModelMM
Posts: 2843
Detroit, Michigan, US
Super Dimension Foto wrote:
For some modeling isn't about having a career as a model. It is about self expression. They're doing it for the art. Now you can go to any model agency website and see perfect examples of what kind of pictures should be in a model's portfolio.
Those pictures are about finding the model work. The one's in model's portfolio on Model Mayhem is about what they want to show the world. I definitely agree. It's self expression plain and simple. I use what I think represents me best.
I want to show the world a certain specific look, but by doing that I hope those photos and artwork will also help me find new work.
I never wanted a career as a model, although had I started out in my teens when everyone encouraged me, I probably could have, I was 5'8 and about 110 pounds at the time. Once I did start at age 35 it all fell into place and it was obvious there was enough interest in me that I could actually model. It's more fun doing it randomly as a semi-professional or hobbyist.
Photographer
IMAGINERIES
Posts: 2048
New York, New York, US
First any art form is subjective......But a model is trying to promote herself using pictures that she think are best
to generate paid photo shoots and showing what she/he believe are her/his best assets.
A photographer is trying show his abilities to create images that show his /her approach to his/her vision of a given
model and this may not apply to a model needs.
I have collaborated with MM models for perhaps ten years and I don't believe that not even ten have posted any of
our collaboration on their MM site.
Photographer
Mikey McMichaels
Posts: 3356
New York, New York, US
BTHPhoto wrote:
Why do so many models have wonderful classic figure and emotive portrait work in their credited photos, but only put "alt" and "urban" or cheesey "glamour" stuff in their portfolios? It's like a chef who makes gourmet food putting spray cheese and frozen tacos on their business cards. People post the photos that they believe will get them work.
I know of models who've said that if they make their portfolio too good it intimidates new photographers who are expecting to pay the models they shoot.
|
