Photographer
hbutz New York
Posts: 3923
Ronkonkoma, New York, US
I've had my head in the sand for a few years now, until someone asked me how to get film developed. How many here remember those little garden shed type structures in the parking lots of popular shopping malls called "Photomat?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fotomat 24 hour photo processing pushed them out, then 1 hour photo pushed out the 24 hour places, and I even saw places offering 30 minute and 20 minute photo processing... before it was all banished to the camera department in the rear of Walmart where the clerk lets out a little giggle when you hand them a roll of film and says, "Hey, I've heard about these." I think color negative film is fairly pointless these days. I opt for chrome and with E6 mailer and scan them myself or do small tank B&W processing at home. But, I did not see this coming: https://petapixel.com/2015/07/27/psa-ma … inal-film/ If you're still dropping off color film at the local Walmart you're likely never going to see your negatives again. Yes, some will say they've got binders of negatives they never look at. So do I. But, I'd rather have negatives and not need them than need my negatives and not have them. Cloud storage will never replace the dusty binders of negs on my bookshelf.
Photographer
AVD AlphaDuctions
Posts: 10747
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
That article is from 2015. I think most people noticed by now if they cared.
Photographer
hbutz New York
Posts: 3923
Ronkonkoma, New York, US
I didn't get the memo.
or, perhaps these places should add a little placard at the photo counter which says, We are deviating from our 100+ year old tradition and will now destroy all your negatives to punish you for not conforming to digital format photography.
Photographer
Ken Marcus Studios
Posts: 9421
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
The silver in the film is certainly being reclaimed by the processing services. I'm sure they figure that it helps keep your costs down.
I had a film processor in the building next door to my studio for many years, til digital destroyed that business. The owner had a safe full of silver bars that he reclaimed from all the film and chemistry over many years. He referred to it as his 'retirement fund'.
Photographer
Carle Photo
Posts: 475
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
I use my negatives & slide film as mixed media I always have mine labeled "do NOT cut" when I drop off my film, & I double check my film when I pick it up.
I do have one roll that mayyyyy still be sitting at a counter, I almost hope it is still there when I pick it up next month, but if they tossed it, no worries.
It's just a pile of souls.
Photographer
Leonard Gee Photography
Posts: 18096
Sacramento, California, US
Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
The silver in the film is certainly being reclaimed by the processing services. I'm sure they figure that it helps keep your costs down. that would be a rather interesting process - especially since color film contains almost no silver particles. in color processing the developed silver is converted back by the bleach solution and it and the unexposed halide in color film are both removed by the fixer. it's the fixer solution that is used to recover the silver, not the color negatives or color slides.
now for black and white film, then you have silver particles to recover, more so for lith and x-ray film.
the lost of the film would be a big problem, since most consumer scans are not very high resolution nor very sharp. not a problem for most consumers, but for a professional photographer, that would be disappointing.
Photographer
Zack Zoll
Posts: 6895
Glens Falls, New York, US
Leonard Gee Photography wrote:
that would be a rather interesting process - especially since color film contains almost no silver particles. in color processing the developed silver is converted back by the bleach solution and it and the unexposed halide in color film are both removed by the fixer. it's the fixer solution that is used to recover the silver, not the color negatives or color slides.
now for black and white film, then you have silver particles to recover, more so for lith and x-ray film.
the lost of the film would be a big problem, since most consumer scans are not very high resolution nor very sharp. not a problem for most consumers, but for a professional photographer, that would be disappointing. I'm not aware of any professional labs that scrap your negs - I suspect most would be offended if you even asked.
I know plenty of 'pro labs' that advertise online do though.
Either way, it's not really affecting much. Anyone likely to care in this day and age should be using a pro lab - especially since costs have shifted to the point where 'low end professional' labs aren't much more expensive than other places. Assuming consumers are rational and educated (they are not generally) , the only people even using Wal-Mart, etc. would be those that found a relative's old camera and just want to know what's on the film for posterity. Everyone else should be going elsewhere anyway.
You know ... If.
Photographer
Studio NSFW
Posts: 756
Pacifica, California, US
Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
The silver in the film is certainly being reclaimed by the processing services. I'm sure they figure that it helps keep your costs down. Leonard Gee Photography wrote:
that would be a rather interesting process - especially since color film contains almost no silver particles. in color processing the developed silver is converted back by the bleach solution and it and the unexposed halide in color film are both removed by the fixer. it's the fixer solution that is used to recover the silver, not the color negatives or color slides. Sorry to argue, but that is not accurate. Color film is silver halide + dye couplers, and unexposed silver still needs to be washed away, just as in black and white.
If you had a volume lab back in the film days. it would throw off those silver bars. At least in California, you would have to have a silver recovery system that exhausted bleach/fixer ("blix") would have to be processed through. My (then) wife was a lab technician for one of the larger volume C-41 labs in the East Bay area - She received silver bars for christmas gifts every year. For a while I worked at a smaller minilab - we also did C-41 and did the silver recovery thing, but I never got any silver bars.
Then I re-read what you said, and I get the point was that the labs might be recovering silver from the negatives themselves. With this epiphany, the world was returned to order, because, ummm, yeah, that would not work - or at least, not be cost efficient. But I already typed all the crap up about silver recovery process and someone might find it barely interesting.
Photographer
Leonard Gee Photography
Posts: 18096
Sacramento, California, US
Studio NSFW wrote:
Sorry to argue, but that is not accurate. Color film is silver halide + dye couplers, and unexposed silver still needs to be washed away, just as in black and white. and after the bleach and fixer, only the dye remains. virtually all the silver is removed by the fixer.
https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/film8.htm
"The development process is stopped either by washing or with a stop bath. The unexposed silver-halide grains are removed using a fixing solution. The silver that was developed in the first step is removed by bleaching chemicals.
The resultant color negatives look very bizarre. First, unlike your black-and-white negative, it contains no silver."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-41_process
"After the developer, a bleach converts the metallic silver generated by development to silver halide, which is soluble in fixer. After the bleach, a fixer removes the silver halide."
Photographer
Studio NSFW
Posts: 756
Pacifica, California, US
Studio NSFW wrote:
Then I re-read what you said, and I get the point was that the labs might be recovering silver from the negatives themselves. With this epiphany, the world was returned to order, because, ummm, yeah, that would not work - or at least, not be cost efficient. But I already typed all the crap up about silver recovery process and someone might find it barely interesting.
Photographer
Eric212Grapher
Posts: 3770
Saint Louis, Missouri, US
hbutz New York wrote:
--snip-- Cloud storage will never replace the dusty binders of negs on my bookshelf. Cloud storage allows the exact same image to be in two places at once.
Negatives on your bookshelf can only be in the one place: on your bookshelf.
Now consider a fire happening. Do you want your storage in one place or multiple places?
Even if you store your negatives in a secured vault somewhere, it is still just in that one place primed for some natural disaster, or man-made one.
Photographer
Zack Zoll
Posts: 6895
Glens Falls, New York, US
Eric212Grapher wrote:
Cloud storage allows the exact same image to be in two places at once.
Negatives on your bookshelf can only be in the one place: on your bookshelf.
Now consider a fire happening. Do you want your storage in one place or multiple places?
Even if you store your negatives in a secured vault somewhere, it is still just in that one place primed for some natural disaster, or man-made one. It's not in two places if it REPLACES the binders, now is it?
Photographer
Eric212Grapher
Posts: 3770
Saint Louis, Missouri, US
Zack Zoll wrote:
It's not in two places if it REPLACES the binders, now is it? I do not know what you consider a backup, but for me, I have external harddrives, located here but also there. Two places. You cannot do that with a negative.
Photographer
Zack Zoll
Posts: 6895
Glens Falls, New York, US
Eric212Grapher wrote:
I do not know what you consider a backup, but for me, I have external harddrives, located here but also there. Two places. You cannot do that with a negative. I also have multiple drives in multiple places. Plus the negatives.
But I was being pedantic, you see, and picking on you for your wording.
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