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N0 Shows & Cancellations
What are you guys doing to cut down or eliminate model Photo shoot no call, no shows or last minute cancellations? I had 3 paid modeling sessions confirmed and booked for this past Thursday? Ultimately, only 1 showed up. Thanks a bunch Ndgo!! I had all 3 models confirmed via email or text. I sent all 3 models the call sheet with the time and location, among other information. The first model never called and never showed. I emailed her and texted her about 10 minutes into the start time and she never responded. The 2nd model was Ndgo and she arrived on time and was great. See her pics: https://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/1204551/viewall The 3rd model called and said, "my boyfriend said the studio's location is not in a great neighborhood and I will not be coming." Any tips or advice would be great. Bruce Johnson Philadelphia, PA Sep 01 18 11:47 am Link Shutters Photography wrote: Pay more. Sep 01 18 11:51 am Link I haven't had a no-call/no-show for a long time. It's been even longer since a no-call/no-show had a negative impact on the shoot. And these are all models I've worked with on a TF basis. If the model sounds immature, is demanding, has delusions of grandeur, is mistrustful in the extreme, or has difficulty in communicating in an email, any of those are warning signs and I brace for the worst. I have a policy of checking in via email with the model three days before the shoot, then the day before, and the morning of the shoot. Any failure to reply within a reasonable time and I assume the model isn't showing up. The model also has my phone# in case her internet goes down. If her email is down, it's up to her to be in touch. If I don't know the model, it's common for me to include her in a three-model session. If one doesn't show up, the others just get more shooting time. And if I do schedule only one model and she's a no-call/no-show, I just chalk it up to my own gullibility and I go treat myself to a nice meal or a movie. Sep 01 18 12:39 pm Link Shutters Photography wrote: Bruce, I don’t know if much can be done. I doubt paying more will instill responsibility. Also it seems that being a relative of a model is about as dangerous a profession as exists! LoL Sep 01 18 12:56 pm Link Shutters Photography wrote: You can't always be sure. What I do: Sep 01 18 01:11 pm Link I might have misread this. Sorry, I could not tell who was paying who. I don't even know Sep 01 18 02:50 pm Link Expecting professionalism from amateur models is silly but over the years I've figured some things out. Day of your session tell them to confirm by email or text. No text or email, no shoot. How current are the models photos. Someone not updating their photos may not be serious about shooting. Avoid models who talk about having a manager or those who take days or weeks to respond. While this may get some push back but consider offering rides to models. Some don't have cars or they may be depending on friends, etc. to get to you. One way to find more reliable models is to attend local fashion shows and hook up with designers. Many have a group of go to models. Another thing to do is try and get local agencies to let you test their models. I've had great luck with women I've met in public or even my former health club. One hooked me up with several of her friends who all followed through and modeled for me. You can't make strangers professional or show up but you can try and put the odds in your favor. Last, some people have this idea that money is what motivates others. Studies have shown that people are more likely to do what they love. The key is to find models who LOVE to be a part of art. Sep 01 18 03:41 pm Link OP, If you network with other local photographers, be sure to share your experiences -- both positive and negative, and include names -- with your cohorts. Save them the trouble of dealing with flakes and help your good model to get more gigs. Sep 02 18 09:20 am Link Chris Lauw wrote: QFT. Sep 02 18 09:52 am Link Orca Bay Images wrote: This is excellent advice and one that promotes networking at its finest. It's nice to see some positive feedback in the forums. Kudos to you Orca! Sep 02 18 09:58 am Link We tell models to actually contact the photographer's references, yet most photographers do not contact the model's references. I'm guilty of this too many times, too. If a model is reliable for many other photographers, your chances of not getting a flake increase. Also, very important, if they did cancel to reschedule a photoshoot, how much warning did they give? 2 weeks? 2 days? 2 hours? Everyone has a grandmother, well, two. And grandmothers do die. It is when their grandmothers seem to have multiple deaths that you should not bother booking that model. The more prolific a model's portfolio, especially with recently added images and up-to-date profiles, the better the chance the model is reliable and takes modeling seriously. No newer images and profiles listing last year's schedule are more likely to flake on you. And as stated above, I often do not confirm a photo shoot until I've exchanged a text message. Sep 02 18 10:01 am Link A little anecdote abut sharing experiences with peers: Years ago, one model I was to shoot (after weeks of planning) didn't respond to the last pre-shoot verification. She did however respond just fine to the day-before check. Then, an hour before the shoot (which I had assumed was not gonna happen),she emailed to say her sister was in the hospital and she'd been at her bedside all week. I'm pretty crappy at math, but even I knew that didn't add up. I emailed a photographer friend to (among other things) vent a little. His reply: "Interesting. I'm scheduled to shoot with her in two hours and she just confirmed." He cancelled her shoot and shot with someone else. Sep 02 18 10:52 am Link In my experience, it’s all a out the time frame of the confirmation(s). I do an email confirmation about 3 days ahead and a phone confirmation about 2 hours ahead. Obviously, I’m not going to find a replacement model in 2 hours, but at least I’m not wasting time setting up my studio or wondering how long to wait for a no-show. I’ve never had a 2 hour confirmation no-show. Some other things that have helped: If a model is poor at communicating, I don’t keep chasing her, I cut her lose and move on. If a model drops communication, odds are she’s not serious. I typically avoid models that have unusual or unprofessional demands like wanting to bring an escort. I get a phone number. Models who aren’t committed will be reluctant to give their phone number. I make it clear if they give me their phone number, I won’t randomly call them to discuss shoot ideas. I will only call if I need to cancel last minute or they no show. I don’t commit money or give up anything important for a shoot with a model I haven’t worked with before. I have an alternative use for my time. This doesn’t reduce cancellations, but it makes them less frustrating. Similarly, I don’t get obsessed with model shoots. When I come across reasonable models, I book shoots, when I don’t, I do something else. Also, I think it’s pointless to worry about the validity of excuses. All the excuses models give me sound plausible and I’m sure a few are true, but statistically most must be made up. It doesn’t really matter. A model who doesn’t show, isn’t there regardless of whether her excuse is true, stretched or completely fabricated. Sep 02 18 11:01 am Link Abbitt Photography wrote: True, but a valid excuse is a valid reason to reschedule. An outright lie is a reason to never rebook the model and give a poor reference should someone ask. Sep 02 18 03:30 pm Link Shutters Photography wrote: I took a look at the google street view of your address. Sep 02 18 04:59 pm Link Shutters Photography wrote: Aaron Pawlak wrote: Major plus since the building number is large and readable. Sep 02 18 05:58 pm Link Aaron Pawlak wrote: I've worked for several published professional photographers who worked out of shitt% looking warehouse type buildings. A few had been meat packing plants converted to studio spaces. Others had been factories of various types and many were NOT in so called great areas. Who cares if the outside isn't beautiful. In fact rentals in great areas tend to be very expensive especially if the spaces are large. From what I gather the OP was paying the model. If she or any model has concerns or possible ones about the location of a shoot she/he should use Google to check out where the place is but as I pointed out very often photographers rent what is large and affordable and it appears you're in NY. That's something you should know. Sep 02 18 06:07 pm Link I haven't had very many no-shows but there are a few things I do beforehand. I will not book a shoot until I have either met the model in person to discuss it or at least talk about it over the phone. I believe this contact makes me an actual person and not just words on the internet in the model's mind so she is more likely to show up. On shooting days I will book two or three models throughout the day. While shooting with one model the MUA will be working on the next. If one flakes the day is not a loss and the other models will probably know somebody who can come in and take that place. I will not book a crucial shoot with someone I have never worked with before or someone who does not have references from other photographers. If I am being paid my contract says that cancellations less than 24 hours before the shoot or no-shows result in me keeping their deposit. If my casting call produced a lot more models than I was looking for I will ask a couple of them if they might be interested in being a backup model in case there is a cancellation. Sep 02 18 06:31 pm Link Aaron Pawlak wrote: A lot of photographer studios are in shitty areas. The relatively lower cost of rent can make all the difference. Sep 02 18 06:33 pm Link OP -- I feel your pain. I've had multiple cancellations last-minute recently: - One model texted me to cancel while I was *on the way* to the shoot location (a 45-minute drive from my house) and was about 80% of the way there. The reason? She had an acting audition and her manager would 'kill her' if she didn't show up. Paid shoot: $120 for 4 hours. - Another was a model who, again, cancelled last-minute because she wanted to spend time with her friend. This one was TFP, and I think she just didn't want to have to drive to the location I was requesting. Which I somewhat understand, but really wish she had figured that out PRIOR to the day of the shoot -- which I took a day off work for. - Another, a traveling model, at $100 an hour, informed me after we had set up terms of the shoot (and she agreed to do a certain location) that she had no transportation. She waited until something like 2 days before the shoot to 'mention' this small detail. So I offer to contribute $20 towards her transportation costs (seeing that Uber shared rides were, at the time of my looking, about $13 each way.) RIGHT before the shoot she calls to say Uber rides are $30 each way, and I said I'd pay all of that, right? This is after saying she's running late. So, sadly, even traveling models are not always reliable, either. But in my experience, they are far 'more' reliable than most others. As the models have a 'secret forum' to presumably warn other models of creepy MWC's and other bad experiences, it seems like we should have a secret photographer forum to warn other photographers about flakes who wait until the VERY LAST MINUTE to cancel. I don't think one or even two 'bad reviews' should deter someone from considering a model, but what if multiple others have also had the same experience? There's currently no way of knowing. Sep 02 18 07:57 pm Link Whoa! Looks like the forums are glitching out. I edited my original message and 3 more popped up. Sep 02 18 07:58 pm Link [Glitched message removed.] Sep 02 18 07:59 pm Link Tony Lawrence wrote: My very first comment was "pay more". Tony Lawrence wrote: It looks worse than unprofessional, in my opinion. I would not have considered renting that as my workspace, Tony Lawrence wrote: That is exactly what I am suggesting; happened. Tony Lawrence wrote: No kidding. Jason McKendricks wrote: I'm not talking about the area. I am not familiar with the area. I'm pointing out the front of the building itself looks like shit, and it doesn't have to.. Sep 02 18 09:38 pm Link I can picture a nice large "2024" painted in clear to read font on the front of the building and a little sign on the entrance, which as it is, is hard to see since doors same color as the painted over bricks. Sep 02 18 09:44 pm Link I don't know many landlords who would let tenants paint over signs, etc. What the space the OP has looks like isn't the issue since the models never followed through. What is notable is one did. In casual conversation I'd ask her why she came through. Did the other models google the address and see how it looked? One never replied. The OP doesn't seem to need curb appeal and again its not a place he owns. I worked for two people who had spaces with no signs for the studios visible. However by all means OP get a huge neon sign I'm sure they will make all the difference. Sep 03 18 10:39 am Link Shutters Photography wrote: Sounds to me like a jealous sluggo blocking GF from modeling scenario more than any legit concern Sep 03 18 12:51 pm Link Aaron Pawlak wrote: By "area" I was actually referring to the building and the area around it. I know of a warehouse that looks like a serial killer lair but inside there are four artist spaces the owner rents out. Sep 03 18 12:55 pm Link Shutters Photography wrote: Try landscapers. They are always there, just gotta wait for lighting and weather. Sep 03 18 12:58 pm Link I usually work with models who depend on their fees to live on. Seems to give them motivation that if they don't work they don't eat. If they have real jobs or a boyfriend footing the bill they seem not to care as much. But I have to tell you years ago I had a $500.00 shoot scheduled with a model at FetishCon and after being late twenty minutes she told me she was going to a sushi restaurant for lunch with her friends instead of our shoot. The good news is she invited me along, the even better news is I asked her is she was nuts. Sep 03 18 01:33 pm Link Aaron Pawlak wrote: I’ve heard that for every time you double what you pay, the chance of flaking decreases by 20%. By going from say $50/hour to 200/hour or even $400/hour a photographer can notably reduce the odds of flaking. Throwing lots of money into an issue solves so many problems. Sep 03 18 04:38 pm Link Aaron Pawlak wrote: Sep 03 18 07:30 pm Link Shutters Photography wrote: That was pretty Judgy! Also not really warranting a response! Sep 03 18 07:31 pm Link Tony Lawrence wrote: That is correct we were paying the models. We mostly shoot indoors, in our studio but the industrial look and brick face is desired sometimes as well. Sep 03 18 07:33 pm Link Aaron Pawlak wrote: LOL...yeah, right. That will literally solve nothing unless the pay went from $50/hour to $1000/hour. In the last several years, the overwhelming majority of models who have flaked on shoots with me have been paid models and models who were being paid VERY well. One was even from an agency who flaked while her agency rep was on the set of the shoot. Sep 03 18 09:21 pm Link Abbitt Photography wrote: Now let's talk reality. It's pretty rare that you will ever find a client willing to pay $400/hour for a model unless they are pretty famous or have a major list of published work behind their name. At $100/hour, you can book 3 models, assume at least one will show up, and save yourself a lot of money. And if all 3 show up, you've got more options to work with. Sep 03 18 09:24 pm Link Tony Lawrence wrote: I totally agree. Most photography studios I've been in are in industrial areas because they have high ceilings and the rent is cheap. It's pretty rare when you see a studio in a nice, suburban strip mall because obviously the rent will be substantially higher and most studios can't afford that. Sep 03 18 09:26 pm Link I work with a small group of models. I shoot art nudes and with rare exception the vast majority of my images are shot on a trade basis. Often a model may seem interested yet when it eats down to it they are not making modeling a priority so it's easy for them to cancel or worse yet just no call no show. The fact that you have spent time and money means nothing to them. Your just a hobby guy shooting a hobby model very few photographers or models are even close to professional. That is why I stick to my team of 6 or 7models, who I have worked with many times over a number of years. I think the key to having models show up is a very strong portfolio with images that makes a model want to work with you. So while it may take a little effort on your part start finding the models that are excited by the work you do and want to be a part of your art. Next make sure to get the post production done within a couple days and send them the best of your work I always send 15 to 30 images. There is no magic, and everyone will tell you something different. Sep 03 18 11:05 pm Link Shutters Photography wrote: Was trying to help you. Sep 04 18 12:45 am Link Aaron Pawlak wrote: I agree with you. Sep 04 18 01:38 am Link Check out this dump   Germania Bank Building 190 Bowery entrance [GFDL (http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html) or CC BY-SA 4.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0 )], by Beyond My Ken, from Wikimedia Commons I can tell you back in the day this was a superdoggy area Filled with bums, drug dealers, hookers galore!!! Somebody should have told Jay Maisel he needs a better space to be successful tog He talks about his experience living and working there https://www.boweryboogie.com/2018/05/ph … he-bowery/ For the $$$ figures look here http://nymag.com/realestate/vu/2008/09/50481/ Bio Stuff https://www.asmp.org/bulletin-magazine/ … ay-maisel/ Sep 04 18 02:20 am Link |
