alkeschwarz wrote:
what are some of the key things you guys think determine if someone is an amateur or a professional? I’ll reply if I agree!

If you get pay for shooting pics constantly, then you are professional.

alkeschwarz wrote:
what are some of the key things you guys think determine if someone is an amateur or a professional? I’ll reply if I agree!

The quality of their work.

martin b wrote:
A couple of weeks ago I was outed as being a fake professional by another photographer for using Portrait Pro 17  for post processing instead of Photo shop.  Btw, I paid for my software. Most photographers in Asia don't pay for their software.

I see nothing wrong with using Portrait Pro 17 if it does the job.
How did he know that you used it?

Abbitt Photography wrote:
You are a full time professional, at least according the DOL, BLS if you work 37 hours or more per week on average at your chosen profession.   If the BLS included everyone who made any income in their data it would create very biased representation as to what professionals in a filed earn.  I don't know what's magical about a 37 per hour a week threshold, but that's what they use.

I would change that to, "If you are busting your ass at least 37 hours a week".  The two photographers I work with around here in Manila have their own studios and work full time as photographers but their income comes mainly from old family money.  I still give them the title of photographer but most others consider them hobbyists because their money comes from other sources much more than photography.

It is a pet peeve of mine because most of the rich want to hang out with other wealthy people.  Being part of the social circle is the best way to get work.  I never begrudge photographers for starting off wealthy.

martin b wrote:
We were at an event working on our laptops and he was curious and was looking over our shoulder.  We shoot tons of events and speed is our friend.  We edit a lot using plug ins and filters for lightroom and for luts for video editing.  I really don't know how others work but I am not an original artist as far as editing goes.  I mostly just want to get all my jobs out quickly and without stress.

Btw, I meet all kinds of other photographers from beginners to pros, most are nice when they see me working on an event.  Every once in a while there is someone who calls me out on equipment we use or techniques that he knows better than me.  They usually will point it out to my other shooter who is a pretty young lady in her twenties.  I'm glad she is good at handling herself.

He was probably mad because he couldn't find a free copy for himself.   

martin b wrote:
A couple of weeks ago I was outed as being a fake professional by another photographer for using Portrait Pro 17  for post processing instead of Photo shop.  Btw, I paid for my software. Most photographers in Asia don't pay for their software.

I use that too.

I don't like heavy retouching, and if you use a very light touch it's a really good program. If you want something heavier it's crap if course, but on those rare occasions I just hire someone else to do it.

I'm guessing that dude didn't understand the difference.

Selena Jain wrote:
You can easily spot an amateur by noticing these things below:


1. Photographers don’t carry their gear in backpacks because they need them when shooting. Backpacks are for carrying stuff those u need in campsite, like cooking gear and tent pegs.

2. Pros don’t carry too much stuff. They know exactly what they need and bring it.

3. The surest way to spot a hobbyist is that all his gear and tripods look brand new, and they probably are.

https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post/974181


The definition of Professional is clear,  a Professional earns a living from their chosen Profession.

Selena Jain wrote:
You can easily spot an amateur by noticing these things below:


1. Photographers don’t carry their gear in backpacks because they need them when shooting. Backpacks are for carrying stuff those u need in campsite, like cooking gear and tent pegs.

2. Pros don’t carry too much stuff. They know exactly what they need and bring it.

3. The surest way to spot a hobbyist is that all his gear and tripods look brand new, and they probably are.

Lol, this looks like a hand guide for the insecure wannabe Pro's.

Zack Zoll wrote:

I use that too.

I don't like heavy retouching, and if you use a very light touch it's a really good program. If you want something heavier it's crap if course, but on those rare occasions I just hire someone else to do it.

I'm guessing that dude didn't understand the difference.

Yeah, I don't usually send out to retouchers unless it will be blown up big.  Our rule of thumb is after we think we are done retouching, take it down about 15%.  Most of my clients are over 40 and many over 60.  A little retouching even if it's just for an 8x10 souvenir hand shake picture gives things a more polished look.

Voy wrote:
1) Portfolio
2) Clients
3) IRS

Great answer except I would have placed the IRS #1!!

Abbitt Photography wrote:
Photography is your profession if over 50% of your income comes from photography.   I've generated income with my photography, but it was never close to 50% of my income, therefore I was never a professional photographer.

I always here this “50%” thing.  I never really agree with it.  If you make money from some service you provided to someone, full or part time, you are a professional.  All the IRS cares about is that you pay taxes on it.  You ARE a professional if you receive money from it.  That’s what most amateur sports associations say. 

Now whether or not you are an independent contractor or employee is about all the IRS really cares about becuase you can or cannot deduct certain things depending on how you file.  You can be an independent contractor and still have another job or profession.  And you can have two or more “professions”.  A lot of people do.  The actual word “professional” really doens’t mean much when it comes to legal things.  Things like contractor, corporation, partnership, etc, does. 

If you can show me where the IRS or anyone else really defines what “professional”, for LEGAL purposes is, I’d love to see it.  I have yet to see anything that has to do with how much time you spend doing something to LEGALLY call you a professional.  I could be wrong.  But show me the actual government/legal definitions.