Abbitt Photography wrote:

That’s a college case.  When colleges adjudicate cases of sexual assault they don’t offer the due process our criminal justice system offers.  Colleges typically offer no right of discovery, no right to face one’s accuser and on top of those biases, most colleges find guilt based on just a 51% confidence of guilt (propensity of evidence) not guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.  Those found guilty under this biased system are often expelled, while those who are shown to have falsely accused someone rarely face any consequence what so ever.   From what I’ve seen, this lack of due process for the accused along with other college practices have  absolutely increased the frequency of false allegations. 

Another issue is that mandatory reporting under title IX and cleary act often push students to file charges when they never intended to.   Sometimes the administration presses charges against a student in cases where no student wants to press charges.  A student innocently exaggerating an experience to save face with friends can trigger a sexual assault case and hearing, even though that’s what the alleged victim never intended when talking to friends.

Obviously, the way colleges handle these issues will impact how many students and recent graduates behave and how they view such issues outside a school setting as well.

I have absolutely no idea where you get the idea that the problem with reporting sexual assault on college campuses is the way the college DOES act on allegations when study after study has found that colleges in fact prefer to cover it up or mishandle it in such a way that it more negatively impacts the victim than actually seeks any form of justice be sought against the accused.

https://www.businessinsider.com/college … pes-2013-6

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar … rs/450609/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ … /12382347/

It's not even a problem confined to US campuses.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/women … thing.html

What Fun Productions wrote:
Even having a casual relationship is worrisome.

https://reason.com/blog/2018/10/09/uc-d … ex-hook-up

I find this article problematic. The reporter states, "I've covered dozens of Title IX cases involving dubious sexual misconduct allegations, unfair adjudicatory procedures, and life-ruining consequences for the young men involved. James's situation is different: He was cleared, and is now enjoying his sophomore year at UC-Davis. In some sense, the process worked."

The author takes over 3000 words to detail one false accusation while acknowledging the person was cleared and "the process worked." If the process worked, does it really warrant such a long piece of investigative journalism?

In that very long article, he takes only one sentence to acknowledge, "There's little doubt that the #MeToo movement has accomplished much good, or that sexual misconduct is a serious problem—in Hollywood, in politics, in the media, in the workplace, and on college campuses."

Since these "dubious sexual misconduct allegations" are a subset of the much larger problem, something he all but ignores, one would assume he's written a much greater number of articles about sexual assault on campus, but, curiously, I was unable to find them.

This is yet another example of being unable to see the forest for the trees. I've no doubt people can keep finding rare cases of false accusations but my question is, why is there so much focus and concern for the 2-10% falsely accused and so little for the 90-98% who are sexually assaulted?
https://www.rainn.org/statistics/campus-sexual-violence

Model Mayhem Edu wrote:
I've no doubt people can keep finding rare cases of false accusations but my question is, why is there so much focus and concern for the 2-10% falsely accused and so little for the 90-98% who are sexually assaulted?
https://www.rainn.org/statistics/campus-sexual-violence

It's just fear, and fear is a good thing in this case (It rarely is). Makes assaulters/harassers think twice before they act

It's like the nazis now being afraid to march because they will get punched

Laura UnBound wrote:
I have absolutely no idea where you get the idea that the problem with reporting sexual assault on college campuses is the way the college DOES act on allegations when study after study has found that colleges in fact prefer to cover it up or mishandle it in such a way that it more negatively impacts the victim than actually seeks any form of justice be sought against the accused.

True, some colleges have tried to cover up wrong doings to save face.  That doesn't change the fact that colleges do in fact adjudicate cases of sexual assault by means that deny the accused due process.  This was mandated under Title IX beginning with a memo known as the Dear Colleague Letter issued by the Department of Education in 2011 I believe.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions … acba9ca789

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions … 6bff305062

Many colleges are in fact now being sued because the are expelling accused students with absolutely no proof these students in fact did anything wrong.  Courts are agreeing these students did not receive due process.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/201 … al-assault


The Cleary Act makes it much more difficult for colleges to hide cases of sexual assault.  If a residence life coordinator, coach, student affairs staff or other CSA college worker (including student CSA workers) hears about anything that could possibly be a sexual assault, they must by law report this to the college Cleary Act official and it will be published in the federal directory so that the public may know of these alleged crimes, even if the person involved makes no claim an assault or any other such crime was committed against them.  CSAs are forbidden by law to keep such information confidential even if the person telling them about the incident requests it not be reported.   The penalty for failing to report a single alleged act is in the 30-50K range.  A college can also lose it's federal funding for repeated offenses. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions … cba9ca789c

Title IX requires similar reporting specific to cases of sexual assault. (Clearly Act includes cases of sexual harassment and sexual assault but includes other alleged crimes as well.)  It should also be noted that in addition to mandatory college reporting and college kangeroo courts, any college student or employee of course also has the same right as anyone else to report any alleged crime against them to the authorities.   (Of course the whole point in requiring college kangeroo courts under Title IX is since they don't use due process, they can find guilt in cases that don't have merit.)

I've personally gone through several Title IX training workshops and have had to be certified in Cleary Act obligations yearly.   

The ways in which colleges deny due process and have been suspending students who have done nothing wrong has been widely published.  A simple google search will reveal thousands of articles on the issue.

Model Mayhem Edu wrote:
I find this article problematic. The reporter states, "I've covered dozens of Title IX cases involving dubious sexual misconduct allegations, unfair adjudicatory procedures, and life-ruining consequences for the young men involved. James's situation is different: He was cleared, and is now enjoying his sophomore year at UC-Davis. In some sense, the process worked."

The author takes over 3000 words to detail one false accusation while acknowledging the person was cleared and "the process worked." If the process worked, does it really warrant such a long piece of investigative journalism?

In that very long article, he takes only one sentence to acknowledge, "There's little doubt that the #MeToo movement has accomplished much good, or that sexual misconduct is a serious problem—in Hollywood, in politics, in the media, in the workplace, and on college campuses."

Since these "dubious sexual misconduct allegations" are a subset of the much larger problem, something he all but ignores, one would assume he's written a much greater number of articles about sexual assault on campus, but, curiously, I was unable to find them.

This is yet another example of being unable to see the forest for the trees. I've no doubt people can keep finding rare cases of false accusations but my question is, why is there so much focus and concern for the 2-10% falsely accused and so little for the 90-98% who are sexually assaulted?
https://www.rainn.org/statistics/campus-sexual-violence

https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/health/c … index.html


https://www.theatlantic.com/education/a … fy/427002/

Violence against anyone should be taken seriously. Women need to report issues and men need to have due process. Both sides need to be respected.

kickfight wrote:
The "Dear Colleague" letter was rescinded by the current regime last fall, and additional adjustments to Title IX are apparently in "a deliberative process". So, progress, I guess?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/29/us/p … sault.html

And of course the CLERY Act has an actual context, which should be included in any invocation of/allusion to the Clery Act.

DeVoss/Dept. of Education ruled that colleges are no longer required to use a proponderance  of evidence standard if they wish and may now use a clear an convincing standard if they wish, but the vast majority of schools haven't changed anything since that ruling.  I  was very disappointed in her ruling.  In my opinion, colleges should not be adjudicating cases of sexual assault under any standard.  Investigations of such crime should be left to law enforcement.

My guess is it will see even more lawsuits against colleges since they now have the right to offer something closer to due process, but most are refusing to do so.

Abbitt Photography wrote:
DeVoss/Dept. of Education ruled that colleges are no longer required to use a proponderance  of evidence standard if they wish and may now use a clear an convincing standard if they wish, but the vast majority of schools haven't changed anything since that ruling.

It would seem that such guidance isn't actually a major factor in how schools actually approach things. Interesting to note, but not surprising... a lot of entities merely go through the motions of adhering to something or another while actually doing whatever the hell they want as a matter of course.

Abbitt Photography wrote:
I  was very disappointed in her ruling.  In my opinion, colleges should not be adjudicating cases of sexual assault under any standard.  Investigations of such crime should be left to law enforcement.

Yeah, 'cuz law enforcement and the court system have such a sterling track record in that regard.

Abbitt Photography wrote:
My guess is it will see even more lawsuits against colleges since they now have the right to offer something closer to due process, but most are refusing to do so.

Sure, why not.

kickfight wrote:
It would seem that such guidance isn't actually a major factor in how schools actually approach things. Interesting to note.

It wasn't really new guidance, it was a lifting of a requirement, but since schools just spent a great deal of effort meeting the previous requirements, most aren't going to change to a more reasonable standard unless it's mandated, and of course that standard is only one of the ways colleges fail to offer due process to those accused.  Colleges also are still getting the same pressure to deny due process that resulted in the Dear Colleague letter in the first place.  That hasn't gone away. 

kickfight wrote:
Yeah, 'cuz law enforcement and the court system have such a sterling track record in that regard.

While our judicial system has imprisoned many innocent people, and is far from perfect,  it has a much better record at offering due process than colleges do, not to mention colleges can't process rape kits, DNA evidence or issue a subpoena.  It's really not hard to understand that institutions designed to educate, won't be as good at adjudicating crime as our legal system.

Any rate, I think this is getting off topic.  My initial point was that the ways colleges handle reporting, including false reporting influences how students and recent graduates will think and behave regarding such issues outside of a college setting as well.

Abbitt Photography wrote:
It wasn't really new guidance, it was a lifting of a requirement, but since schools just spent a great deal of effort meeting the previous requirements, most aren't going to change to a more reasonable standard unless it's mandated, and of course that standard is only one of the ways colleges fail to offer due process to those accused.

A lifting of a requirement is a form of new guidance, unless someone is just trying to split hairs. If schools spent a "great deal of effort" meeting a more stringent set of requirements, it would seem pretty straightforward to meet a less-stringent one.

Abbitt Photography wrote:
Colleges also are still getting the same pressure to deny due process that resulted in the Dear Colleague letter in the first place.  That hasn't gone away.

Well, they now seem to have all sorts of different special-interest pressures being applied to them.

Abbitt Photography wrote:
While our judicial system has imprisoned many innocent people, and is far from perfect,  it has a much better record at offering due process than colleges do, not to mention colleges can't process rape kits, DNA evidence or issue a subpoena.

Yes, which is why people who have been wronged by ANY institution do have the ability to petition the judicial system for their due process, and most do so, successfully, every day. And yet, it is indeed far from perfect... y'know, like life itself.

So, once again, this idea ---that we should all of a sudden be terrified of some rare occurrence--- remains a total exaggeration.

Abbitt Photography wrote:
Any rate, I think this is getting off topic.  My initial point was that the ways colleges handle reporting, including false reporting influences how students and recent graduates will think and behave regarding such issues outside of a college setting as well.

Some people will have certain experiences, and some people will have other entirely different experiences, and yes, certain experiences may certainly affect and influence a person's worldview. Sexual assault certainly comes to mind as one of the most worldview-altering experiences.

What Fun Productions wrote:

A man of few word. I guess I can't disagree with you.

Laura UnBound wrote:
Unless your typical behaviour is to sexually harass or assault women, then I don't know what kind of impact a movement of women who have been sexually harassed and assaulted speaking out about their experiences is going to have on how you conduct your photoshoots.

If you're the kind of person who sexually harasses and assaults women and you're worried about getting called out for it...well maybe you should just stop doing that and then you wont have to worry.

+1 Pretty simple when you think about it