Carle Photo wrote:
After several years of repeat questions & requests, several of them absurd & offensive, I put together a FAQ:
https://carlephotography.com/pages/faq

bowl of fruit????

hahahahahaha

oh man

Carle Photo wrote:
After several years of repeat questions & requests, several of them absurd & offensive, I put together a FAQ:
https://carlephotography.com/pages/faq

This is outstanding!

Carle Photo wrote:
After several years of repeat questions & requests, several of them absurd & offensive, I put together a FAQ:
https://carlephotography.com/pages/faq

Your parameters for session discounts are sizist. The ACLU has been notified.

Al_Vee Photography wrote:



This is outstanding!

True!!!! But that little "ask your question" form at the bottom is fraught with peril!!!!
I ran away before I could make up a new one.

To address the OP, ONE TIME I had a friend hire me to shoot photos of her for her boyfriend's birthday. She paid cash at the beginning of the shoot. It was a nude shoot in a secluded spot. I let her pose, only directed from the camera if something needed a bit of adjustment. She did a single spread shot, there was no request for a close up. I shot it and we moved on.

Per our agreement I gave her the exposed, undeveloped film and a recommendation for a lab that I knew would process it. So I've never seen the results and I don't care. Other than that, nada.

That's my story *yawns*.

Shadow Dancer wrote:
True!!!! But that little "ask your question" form at the bottom is fraught with peril!!!!
I ran away before I could make up a new one.

It's a great/awful spot to write in even more penis questions.

To be completely fair, every time I've been contacted by a male model (for something other than just headshots or standard portraits, which is mostly what I do anyway), they asked weird penis questions. I can't figure out why these guys are so concerned with their own genitalia - what it looks like, the size, how they're groomed. As a photographer, I absolutely don't care about these things. Even if they're nude, I'm going to pose them in ways where their crotch is not really visible anyway. People without penises never seem to ask these questions. I'm not taking pictures of penises; I'm taking pictures of people.

Last spring, a male model sent me a question: "Is my penis good enough to be a model?" I couldn't help but respond by asking if model penises were an actual thing, outside the world of sex toy innovation.   Needless to say, never heard back from that one.

Al_Vee Photography wrote:

It's a great/awful spot to write in even more penis questions.

To be completely fair, every time I've been contacted by a male model (for something other than just headshots or standard portraits, which is mostly what I do anyway), they asked weird penis questions. I can't figure out why these guys are so concerned with their own genitalia - what it looks like, the size, how they're groomed. As a photographer, I absolutely don't care about these things. Even if they're nude, I'm going to pose them in ways where their crotch is not really visible anyway. People without penises never seem to ask these questions. I'm not taking pictures of penises; I'm taking pictures of people.

Last spring, a male model sent me a question: "Is my penis good enough to be a model?" I couldn't help but respond by asking if model penises were an actual thing, outside the world of sex toy innovation.   Needless to say, never heard back from that one.

Funny!!!!
Not gonna get all anatomical but for every possible square inch of humanithy there is a fetish somewhere.
I have stuff to worry about but that's not it.

Ivy Wild wrote:
At least half a dozen times, a photographer has randomly decided to tell me about some encounter in which a model has apparently specifically asked for the photographer to take a close up image of their vagina. The photographer always acts like he was uncomfortable, and was like "okay, if you really want to, I'll do that for you"

The first few times I heard it I smiled/nodded and proceeded with the conversation.

Several renditions of this later, I have to ask WHY?

Yes, GWCs told me this story but also well published professional photographers have told me this story. Of all the topics of conversation. It's not *necessarily* inappropriate per say, but now that I have heard it so many times, I'm just dying to know why of all the conversations about art and photography, must I hear this one over and over? And are they even true?

Can y'all....just... not?

I agree with your opinion

Art Silva wrote:
Wow, this is seriously a normal occurrence?

Okay, now I have been photographing nudes in several genres but mostly art nudes for lets see, about 36 years now and I have YET to have a story like that to tell. Even if I did (which I doubt happens much at all), that is an inappropriate thing to bring up with another model in a shoot.
Professionalism escapes many these days.

I think probably half of them aren't true. I've definitely heard ones that I believed, but the way these photographers tell it there are just tons of models out there who are dying for vagina pics and seemingly unable to find anyone to do it.


.....


Again, even if they are true, I don't know why people seem to feel the need to tell me this particular story.

Ivy Wild wrote:
I think probably half of them aren't true. I've definitely heard ones that I believed, but the way these photographers tell it there are just tons of models out there who are dying for vagina pics and seemingly unable to find anyone to do it.


.....


Again, even if they are true, I don't know why people seem to feel the need to tell me this particular story.

Some models have different rates for different genres.  Fashion is lowest; the boudoir; then art nudes; then erotic; then freeze you ass off in the snow naked.  With some variation between models.  Judging by the price scale, there are plenty of models that will pose for the type of photo you describe, but it is more likely that the photographer is trying to manipulate the model (you), in your example.  Even if their story is true.

Ivy Wild wrote:
Again, even if they are true, I don't know why people seem to feel the need to tell me this particular story.

It's bait.

Carle Photo wrote:
After several years of repeat questions & requests, several of them absurd & offensive, I put together a FAQ:
https://carlephotography.com/pages/faq

Interesting ---but not at all surprising--- that trampling is right up there.

Ivy Wild wrote:
Can y'all....just... not?

I.....just...won't.   I promise.

Two Pears Studio wrote:
and if you are really uncomfortable about it... ask them to stop?

I don't think that most men realize how much work it is to ask men to not do a creepy thing.

I do think it is important/educational for photographers to know when they have done something to make me uncomfortable if I can tell they are not actually trying to harass me, yet still cross a line. Or if it is important to me that they not to do it again. I try to say it in the most gentle way possible that a comment or the unexpected physical contact made me uncomfortable. This always happens:

1) The photographer gets defensive
2) The photographer often gets angry with me for making him feel defensive
3) I have to spend emotional labor making the photographer feel better about it even though he did the inappropriate thing and all I did was try to explain a boundary. This is quite tiring.
4) The shoot is negatively affected.


The easiest thing to do is almost always just to smile and nod.

Women have been taught that our role is to de-escalate every situation. And so we do.

It would be a wise thing to spend time trying to understand this flow and be a better creative partner. There are many photographers who cross a line with me, and I'm usually not mad about it. I just don't want them to do it again. But expressing discomfort at all can be damn EXHAUSTING.

Ivy Wild wrote:

I don't think that most men realize how much work it is to ask men to not do a creepy thing.

I do think it is important/educational for photographers to know when they have done something to make me uncomfortable if I can tell they are not actually trying to harass me, yet still cross a line. Or if it is important to me that they not to do it again. I try to say it in the most gentle way possible that a comment or the unexpected physical contact made me uncomfortable. This always happens:

1) The photographer gets defensive
2) The photographer often gets angry with me for making him feel defensive
3) I have to spend emotional labor making the photographer feel better about it even though he did the inappropriate thing and all I did was try to explain a boundary. This is quite tiring.
4) The shoot is negatively affected.


The easiest thing to do is almost always just to smile and nod.

Women have been taught that our role is to de-escalate every situation. And so we do.

It would be a wise thing to spend time trying to understand this flow and be a better creative partner. There are many photographers who cross a line with me, and I'm usually not mad about it. I just don't want them to do it again. But expressing discomfort at all can be damn EXHAUSTING.

well said.

Ivy Wild wrote:

I don't think that most men realize how much work it is to ask men to not do a creepy thing.

I do think it is important/educational for photographers to know when they have done something to make me uncomfortable if I can tell they are not actually trying to harass me, yet still cross a line. Or if it is important to me that they not to do it again. I try to say it in the most gentle way possible that a comment or the unexpected physical contact made me uncomfortable. This always happens:

1) The photographer gets defensive
2) The photographer often gets angry with me for making him feel defensive
3) I have to spend emotional labor making the photographer feel better about it even though he did the inappropriate thing and all I did was try to explain a boundary. This is quite tiring.
4) The shoot is negatively affected.


The easiest thing to do is almost always just to smile and nod.

Women have been taught that our role is to de-escalate every situation. And so we do.

It would be a wise thing to spend time trying to understand this flow and be a better creative partner. There are many photographers who cross a line with me, and I'm usually not mad about it. I just don't want them to do it again. But expressing discomfort at all can be damn EXHAUSTING.

I think the best thing, for those with experience, is to create a POLICY section on their bio (or in a linked Google Doc) that lists no-no's, such as:

- Do not touch me without asking first
- No open leg shots
- etc etc.

Although one wonders how to add the no-no from this thread...

- Do not tell me stories of how models have asked you to photograph their junk

lol. Okay. Well, at least you can always ask 'Did you read my policies' before the shoot starts, and if they say yet, you have every right to stop them mid-shoot and tell them what they did wrong. It also serves as education for other photographers what most models consider no-no's, when we start seeing the same list on port after port.

LONDON Photo Art wrote:
I think the best thing, for those with experience, is to create a POLICY section on their bio (or in a linked Google Doc) that lists no-no's, such as:

- Do not touch me without asking first
- No open leg shots
- etc etc.

Although one wonders how to add the no-no from this thread...

- Do not tell me stories of how models have asked you to photograph their junk

lol. Okay. Well, at least you can always ask 'Did you read my policies' before the shoot starts, and if they say yet, you have every right to stop them mid-shoot and tell them what they did wrong. It also serves as education for other photographers what most models consider no-no's, when we start seeing the same list on port after port.

So I have gone back and forth on this. I used to write a lot about professionalism, (don't touch me, don't spend half the shoot constantly telling me that I'm looking sexy while we are shooting nude, etc etc). And if it wasn't vagina stories, it would be something else.

It's just...I feel like a lot of this is known, or should be known. And I think that that the GWCs will do it no matter what, and the real photographers are probably dead tired being lectured about it. Those "policies" sections can get very patronizing. It's also hard to explain. One photographer can say "oh, that's really beautiful" and have it not be creepy at all and a GWC will say it and make me want to put on a hijab.

I kind of think that no amount policy-lectures will make the leery guy stop being leery. I think he knows what he is doing.

Then there is the guy who honestly doesn't want to make me uncomfortable, but is seeking a level of emotional intimacy/familiarity that I am not comfortable with. His only crime is comments. I want the comments to stop. I really just want to be able to say "Hey, that made me feel a little uncomfortable, please don't do that?" and have the photographer say "oh, sure, no problem. my apologies." and then immediately move on from the moment. I just have to then spend several minutes dealing with the defensiveness/reassurances. This generally makes me then *super* aware of being naked. Someones I want to write big screaming PSAs to everyone that just says "Don't argue with me about whether or not I SHOULD feel uncomfortable by the thing, no amount of you being defensive is going to make me more comfortable with the thing, just say 'no problem' and stop doing the thing!"

Maybe I could explain that in the policies. I don't know. It's all very exhausting, and, imo one of the worst parts of this job.

Policies:
- don't tell me stories of the vaginas you've photographed
- don't get butthurt if I express discomfort with a comment you should probably know better about anyway. just move on. I'm not mad. really. I want to keep shooting. I don't want to talk about it anymore. yes, I know you didn't mean it. yes, I know you are a nice guy. right. okay. just don't do that thing. omg stop.

Ivy Wild wrote:
I don't think that most men realize how much work it is to ask men to not do a creepy thing.

I do think it is important/educational for photographers to know when they have done something to make me uncomfortable if I can tell they are not actually trying to harass me, yet still cross a line. Or if it is important to me that they not to do it again. I try to say it in the most gentle way possible that a comment or the unexpected physical contact made me uncomfortable. This always happens:

1) The photographer gets defensive
2) The photographer often gets angry with me for making him feel defensive
3) I have to spend emotional labor making the photographer feel better about it even though he did the inappropriate thing and all I did was try to explain a boundary. This is quite tiring.
4) The shoot is negatively affected.


The easiest thing to do is almost always just to smile and nod.

Women have been taught that our role is to de-escalate every situation. And so we do.

It would be a wise thing to spend time trying to understand this flow and be a better creative partner. There are many photographers who cross a line with me, and I'm usually not mad about it. I just don't want them to do it again. But expressing discomfort at all can be damn EXHAUSTING.

This is all so true, and I've had the same experience in stating boundaries. Even bringing it up after a shoot so as to not ruin the whole thing results in a load of emotional labor (off the clock of course).

And honestly, I assume I'm dealing with fellow adults. Perhaps it's a crazy assumption, but I think they do know when the behavior is unacceptable and are proceeding anyway - hence the defensiveness and all the things that follow it. If an adult person does these things, more often than not, they do know it's inappropriate. Given a person who clearly lacks boundaries and sees no problem with inappropriate behavior, I go with the assumption that I need to mitigate risk to myself rather than accidentally provoking even worse behavior through clear confrontation.

I do have a limits section in my booking information on my website, and it has helped though. Here's a link if you want to see it: https://www.livsage.net/bookinginformation
Please note, it's very long hahaha. And it's probably very didactic by most standards. Though, I do state that if a photographer is looking to shoot what they see in my portfolio that they don't need to bother reading it. I've had several photographers read it and tell me they were very entertained. So there's that.

Ivy Wild wrote:

I don't think that most men realize how much work it is to ask men to not do a creepy thing.

I do think it is important/educational for photographers to know when they have done something to make me uncomfortable if I can tell they are not actually trying to harass me, yet still cross a line. Or if it is important to me that they not to do it again. I try to say it in the most gentle way possible that a comment or the unexpected physical contact made me uncomfortable. This always happens:

1) The photographer gets defensive
2) The photographer often gets angry with me for making him feel defensive
3) I have to spend emotional labor making the photographer feel better about it even though he did the inappropriate thing and all I did was try to explain a boundary. This is quite tiring.
4) The shoot is negatively affected.


The easiest thing to do is almost always just to smile and nod.

Women have been taught that our role is to de-escalate every situation. And so we do.

It would be a wise thing to spend time trying to understand this flow and be a better creative partner. There are many photographers who cross a line with me, and I'm usually not mad about it. I just don't want them to do it again. But expressing discomfort at all can be damn EXHAUSTING.

This is one of the best posts I've read on here in a long time. Every single word - yes, yes, yes !!!

Britmick wrote:
Has anyone noticed that the perpetrator of this thread is no longer a member???

Her personal experiences whether true or not have no relevance in my day to day life.

Perpetrator.. Hmmm.. I don't think you're using that term correctly..

Thanks though, for having absolutely no feelings about the treatment of your fellow artists.
No feelings means No butthurt too, right?

Britmick wrote:
Has anyone noticed that the perpetrator of this thread is no longer a member???

Her personal experiences whether true or not have no relevance in my day to day life.

People come and go.  It is indicative of very little.  You: 2 years, 3 posts, and this is what you decide to express yourself with?

You are not concerned about people saying offensive things to you?  Hmmm.  I would like to understand why you feel this way.  So, I looked at your profile and portfolio.  I found: one photo of a car in your portfolio    Okay.  That helps.  You don't care about shooting models and you are probably a member just so you can see the nude photos of those people who reserve their portfolios to members.  Did you know that your profile violates site rules and it should be hidden?

Ozark, Missouri 

British

Okay.  I get it.  Glad you don't mind people saying offensive things to you. 


Edit:

One could easily construe that the reason for her leaving the site was people like those she posted about, who would not treat her with dignity and respect by using such poor and transparent manipulative ploys to coax her into something she had made clear was beyond her limits.  She was compelling in her subsequent post.  Your comment makes you sound like a dog.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:

People come and go.  It is indicative of very little.  2 years, 3 posts, and this is what you decide to express yourself with?

You are not concerned about people saying offensive things to you?  Hmmm.  I would like to understand why you feel this way.  So, I looked at your profile and portfolio.  I found, one photo of a car in your portfolio    Okay.  That helps.  You don't care about shooting models and you are probably a member just so you can see the nude photos of those people who reserve their portfolios to members.  Did you know that your profile violates site rules and it should be hidden?

Ozark, Missouri 

British

Okay.  I get it.  Glad you don't mind people saying offensive things to you. 

I agree!