Angel House Portraits wrote:

I was on mm some years ago and went on hiatus and revived the passion for photography and came back but a lot has changed. About all models on mm are now demanding pay. Even new no experience models demand pay. I remember when I used to open a casting call and received a number of replies and that was for TFP. Once they find out that no money is to be made they just move on.

you hit it on the nail....

TEB-Art Photo wrote:
IG, Facebook, and Tumblr have all had major failings in their approaches to nudity.

Blogger (Google), IMHO, does it right:

#You don't have to be logged in.
#You do have to have cookies and Javascript turned on.
#You get a warning that the blog may contain sensitive material and are asked whether you wish to proceed.
#If you click, yes, you are good to go for the session.

Prevents accidental exposure to exposure. VERY "not onerous" and respectful of users and visitors.

IG and FB have not shown failure due of nudity disallowed. Because they did so at the beginning. However, Tumblr is a different story. They take away something that users were given to at the beginning. It's like giving the users the finger. But users at the end give them 2 fingers back in return. "Bye bye, you stupid idiots."

Tarquin Grey wrote:
I'm appalled by how many "models" are demanding pay. I worked hard for years learning my craft and paying my dues doing TFP shoots. I worked very hard to get to where I am and having been published many times over and have earned the rates I charge and earned the right to be called a professional, and it's an insult to watch some of these girls and women insist on payment with absolutely no experience and less than impressive and incredibly amateur portfolios. Modeling is an artform, you can't just stand there and look pretty and flash some nipple and demand $200. It's upsetting and insulting to me and others, and I'm furious for the new photographers that are being taken advantage of, and ripped off, having these horrible experiences, and I've heard way too many nightmare stories.

We seem to live in the age of arrogance and self importance.

You don't say.

PHP-Photography wrote:

You don't say.

I DID just say 🤣
But, care to elaborate? Because your comment could be interpreted or misinterpreted in several ways, and color me curious as to your intent and point of view... 😁👍

-T

Tarquin Grey wrote:

I DID just say 🤣
But, care to elaborate? Because your comment could be interpreted or misinterpreted in several ways, and color me curious as to your intent and point of view... 😁👍

-T

Your post was full of "arrogance and self importance".

Tony Lawrence wrote:
but modeling is less a skill as it is about beauty and looking good on film or digital.

+ big number.

If model has "the look' she will get paid from day 1, no need to do TF with some photographer who will make them a star.

SayCheeZ!  wrote:
What's even worse are the models that have been on mM for a long time, log in on a regular basis, won't even reply to legitimate gigs and have NOTHING but crappy photos and selfies (which aren't permitted in MM portfolios).  It only makes me wonder what their purpose for being on MM is.

Like the ones who have not added photos  since 2011 and do not appear to have ever updated their profile either?

My best guess is that they have not logged in since 2011 either, but MM updates their last login anyways to make it appear that they have more active models than they do.

That is the only explanation that makes sense for why a model who has been here for almost a decade still has 'no experience' in her profile.  Sure, models can be (justifiably) picky.  But not THAT picky.

ShutterDoug wrote:

Like the ones who have not added photos  since 2011 and do not appear to have ever updated their profile either?

My best guess is that they have not logged in since 2011 either, but MM updates their last login anyways to make it appear that they have more active models than they do.

That is the only explanation that makes sense for why a model who has been here for almost a decade still has 'no experience' in her profile.  Sure, models can be (justifiably) picky.  But not THAT picky.

Welcome to the forums ShutterDoug

It is conceivable that they have not updated their profile/portfolio in 8 years.  That could be motivation to pass on them.  However, I have never seen evidence that MM would rig the login date.  There are many abandoned profiles here.  There are legitimate reasons for not updating the profile.  They may have a small group of people they are comfortable working with and do not care about attracting new talent.  Or, they get plenty of offers on the old stuff.  Don't dwell on it.  It isn't worth your time.

Tarquin Grey wrote:
I've been modeling since I was a kid (so for most of my life) and I took a hiatus for health reasons. But upon coming back I feel that MM has changed too. And I'm appalled by how many "models" are demanding pay. I worked hard for years learning my craft and paying my dues doing TFP shoots. I worked very hard to get to where I am and having been published many times over and have earned the rates I charge and earned the right to be called a professional, and it's an insult to watch some of these girls and women insist on payment with absolutely no experience and less than impressive and incredibly amateur portfolios. Modeling is an artform, you can't just stand there and look pretty and flash some nipple and demand $200. It's upsetting and insulting to me and others, and I'm furious for the new photographers that are being taken advantage of, and ripped off, having these horrible experiences, and I've heard way too many nightmare stories.

We seem to live in the age of arrogance and self importance. People see something they want, or want to be, but have no interest in putting in the hard work it takes to get it. So they simply manipulate others and take what they feel justified in having as their own because they "deserve" it. 
This obviously also can play into one of the reasons people are flakey. A lack of respect, and the point of view that they don't owe anyone anything if they don't feel like responding or following through or even showing up. I show up to my shoots early or on time and EVERY time the photographer or production staff are absolutely shocked. It's really sad that I'm a rare commodity because I show up on time, prepared, and do my job. Pfft. Oh well! At least i end up looking like a rock star right!!!??? HAHAHA!!!

Endith my rant 🤣

-Tarquin

P.s. Next on the agenda, awesome artistic ideas... Photographer: "wouldn't it be really cool if you stood on these railroad tracks!?" Me: "sure dude"... puts an imaginary gun to my head to blow my imaginary brains out 😐👍😆

The third MM model I worked with told me a similar history of how she did nothing but TF for a year before charging for her time.  Even then, I felt like she had very reasonable rates.  I learned a lot from her and the other experienced models I worked with.  There is a valuable difference in the skill levels and professionalism of the models that were on MM when I got here, those that are still here, and the new ones coming up.  Since my work doesn't depend on "pretty, young women," I am happy to invest in the experience.  But I also look for models that will fill a niche role, and they tend to be newer.  I have found very skilled and competent models that have only been on MM a couple of years and have been very happy with them and I am willing to work with them again. 

When I started here, I wanted to do TF and pay as little cash as possible.  I altered my philosophy quickly.  I realize that even my best photos have little to offer someone who models for a living.  The aforementioned 3rd model told me she had thousands of photos from professionals.  Mine aren't going to pay her bills or feed her.  To do TF by giving her a painting- no.  It takes too long.  She shouldn't have to wait.  I would rather pay, if we can agree on a suitable rate.

Anyway, I enjoyed your post and perspective.  Welcome to the forums.  Sorry you had a negative experience right out of the gate.

Tarquin Grey wrote:
I've been modeling since I was a kid (so for most of my life) and I took a hiatus for health reasons. But upon coming back I feel that MM has changed too. And I'm appalled by how many "models" are demanding pay. I worked hard for years learning my craft and paying my dues doing TFP shoots. I worked very hard to get to where I am and having been published many times over and have earned the rates I charge and earned the right to be called a professional, and it's an insult to watch some of these girls and women insist on payment with absolutely no experience and less than impressive and incredibly amateur portfolios. Modeling is an artform, you can't just stand there and look pretty and flash some nipple and demand $200. It's upsetting and insulting to me and others, and I'm furious for the new photographers that are being taken advantage of, and ripped off, having these horrible experiences, and I've heard way too many nightmare stories.

We seem to live in the age of arrogance and self importance. People see something they want, or want to be, but have no interest in putting in the hard work it takes to get it. So they simply manipulate others and take what they feel justified in having as their own because they "deserve" it. 
This obviously also can play into one of the reasons people are flakey. A lack of respect, and the point of view that they don't owe anyone anything if they don't feel like responding or following through or even showing up. I show up to my shoots early or on time and EVERY time the photographer or production staff are absolutely shocked. It's really sad that I'm a rare commodity because I show up on time, prepared, and do my job. Pfft. Oh well! At least i end up looking like a rock star right!!!??? HAHAHA!!!

Endith my rant 🤣

-Tarquin

Thank you, Tarquin. Your attitude shows that you value hard work and experience, not the expectation of being handed something because you feel entitled. I agree!  I remember back in the "Dae" when you were in Playboy, looking beautiful!  You rock

Paul Grofton wrote:
I have a similar problem. What is worse is they start the conversation and don't finish. Then they contact me months later asking if we can still shoot the project. Huh! It seems they have an attitude of we are here for them. I have found that I like working with Ukrainian and Russian Models they seem to have an excellent work ethic.

I messaged one model. Heard absolutely nothing back from her for like a year. Ultimately, she did respond, we booked a shoot, she became a favorite. I think the delay was "having a small child" -related.