Photographer
rfordphotos
Posts: 8866
Antioch, California, US
from CNET.com: https://www.cnet.com/news/san-francisco … 06-10abe3d San Francisco's outrageous rent hits a new peak of $3,690, highest in the US The median price for a one bedroom apartment hit that new high before expected IPOs of Airbnb, Uber and Lyft this year. BY IAN SHERR FEBRUARY 28, 2019 1:21 PM PST Get your Kleenex ready. The median rent for a one bedroom apartment in San Francisco has reached a new peak of $3,690, according to survey data from Zumper, a home and apartment rental app. That's also a rise of nearly 9 percent from the same time last year, the survey found. Not only are those figures high enough to make your bank account cringe, but they're also nearly 30 percent higher than New York City and more than double the prices in Miami. Seattle, home to Amazon and Microsoft, rang in at $1,970 and Washington, DC, hit $2,150. Oh, and by the way, while San Francisco's prices rose, the median price of one bedroom apartments across the US dropped nearly half a percent during this same time. That means while San Francisco's prices climbed, the country's prices fell. "Though there may be a ton of cash flowing through the city and surrounding areas soon, many of these workers will not immediately invest in a home and may, instead, take their money to both travel and upgrade their rental situation," Zumper wrote in a blog post Thursday. The survey data, though likely unsurprising, underscores the challenges the tech industry faces in its home turf of the San Francisco Bay Area. The shocking success that's helped make companies like Apple, Google and Facebook titans of industry has created an estimated 74 billionaires and nearly 150,000 millionaires. Add in the fact that there isn't enough housing to go around, and prices have naturally skyrocketed. The federal Department of Housing and Urban Development said last year that a family of four earning up to $117,400 qualified as "low income" in the city. With expected tech IPOs from San Francisco-based companies like Airbnb, Pinterest, Slack, Uber and Lyft, all likely to mint many more millionaires and draw even more people to the city, there's little hope for relief.
Photographer
Shadow Dancer
Posts: 9775
Bellingham, Washington, US
We should have bought parking lots in San Francisco when we were kids, right?
Way better than owning an apartment, maintenance consists of paving, painting and keeping a chain intact for a border.
Costs more to park for a month in SF than a room up here in B'ham and our rents are very high for the area. 1% vacancy rate, 4 colleges will do that.
Even a month of using public transit in SF costs more than it costs to eat up here.
A beautiful city that I will never live in, even if I win the Lottery. So it goes.
Haven't been there in years, miss the great Chinese food!!! Hard to find around here for some reason, unless you take a trip to Seattle or Vancouver BC.
Photographer
Art Silva
Posts: 10064
Santa Barbara, California, US
It's sad and ridiculous being born and raised in Berkeley, moving to a rich college town 330 miles south and while here in THIS expensive beach town I have come to the conclusion long ago that I can never afford to go back home.
Not only housing prices are up, so are the everyday expenses; food, public transportation, gas, parking, etc....
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
I love San Francisco!
I can't afford to live there!
Photographer
martin b
Posts: 2770
Manila, National Capital Region, Philippines
I live in a third world country. Those numbers just seem insane to me. I'm so used to living with a tiny budget that $3,500 is closer to a year's salary than a monthly rent for most filipinos.
Photographer
Brooklyn Bridge Images
Posts: 13200
Brooklyn, New York, US
A model I used to shoot moved to SF and told me rents where higher there than NYC.
I couldnt comprehend that fact but research proved her right.
No wonder the homeless population is exploding there.
Photographer
nwprophoto
Posts: 15005
Tonasket, Washington, US
I have read a lot of negatives about SF.
What is attraction?
Why do people want live there?
Photographer
kickfight
Posts: 35054
Portland, Oregon, US
I sure am glad I got to live in SF back in the 80s when it was still somewhat affordable to the average salary-earner (OK, technically two salaries). Would not trade all those great memories for anything... the Record Finder and Bagdad Cafe near the Noe/Market intersection (both RIP), wandering the Mission district when it was still mostly artist lofts and drug dens (some really outstanding bands there at the time), living in the Inner Sunset just a block away from GGP, and of course soaking in the amazing sounds, sights, scents, and flavors of North Beach and Chinatown. *sigh* Good damn times!
Photographer
Shadow Dancer
Posts: 9775
Bellingham, Washington, US
nwprophoto wrote:
I have read a lot of negatives about SF.
What is attraction?
Why do people want live there? Have you ever been there?
It is a beautiful city, one of the best on the West Coast by far. Portland is great too but can get pretty cold and windy in the winter. There are always going to be people who complain about stuff.
Photographer
Shadow Dancer
Posts: 9775
Bellingham, Washington, US
nwprophoto wrote:
I have read a lot of negatives about SF.
What is attraction?
Why do people want live there? Have you ever been there?
It is a beautiful city, one of the best on the West Coast by far. Portland is great too but can get pretty cold and windy in the winter. There are always going to be people who complain about stuff.
Photographer
nwprophoto
Posts: 15005
Tonasket, Washington, US
Shadow Dancer wrote:
Have you ever been there?
It is a beautiful city, one of the best on the West Coast by far. Portland is great too Think the last time I was in SF was 15 years ago.
I have lived in Portland, parts of it are nice, but it also has lots of "not so great neighborhoods".
Photographer
Shadow Dancer
Posts: 9775
Bellingham, Washington, US
nwprophoto wrote:
Think the last time I was in SF was 15 years ago.
I have lived in Portland, parts of it are nice, but it also has lots of "not so great neighborhoods". We are all different, some prefer the quiet and relative safety of a remote small town, others thrive in larger communities.
I chose San Francisco and Portland largely because both cities have excellent public transit systems and it is often better to park your car and ride. I have a friend in Portland who drives his car maybe 3-4 times a year.
I honestly cannot think of one great city that does not have some "not so great neighborhoods". On the other hand, my feelings regarding small towns would make it impossible for me to be happy living in one.
San Francisco and the Bay Area is also notable for the variety of international cuisine available, from small Mom and Pop places to more extravagent digs. There is a vibrant music scene, artists of all types and galleriies/museums to accomodate them, street performances (I've seen a couple of Chinese Lion Dances in San Francisco - wonderful!) and all the other things that make a city a great place for creatives.
Plus, nobody will ever get tagged as "The Weirdo" or ostrasized from the community for being "strange". Too many of them to distiguish.
I did a search for female models within a 25 mile radius of Tonasket and found one in Oroville. She is beautiful, all one of her. I expanded the search to 50 miles and there are two, one who lives in BC popped up. A 25 mile radius search in San Francisco brings up 1,312 results, Portland has 757. Bellingham has 48.
I did my research before moving to Bellingham, which is a fairly small city of 80,000 or so. There is a state university here, a community college, a technical college and an Indian college (run by our native population and they chose the name). So there is some diversity (in the context that this is Washington and not California or New York) and that means a decent representation of creatives, many choices for some cuisines at least - great Thai, Vietnamese, Indian but you gotta find your taco trucks to get good Mexican and forget about Chinese. Bellingham is also not far from Vancouver BC and Seattle so I can get my "big city" fix if needed.
I'm sure the natural surroundings, peace and quiet is nice but I would go insane for lack of all the things that larger population centers offer. Not a judgement call on anything except my own temperment.
Photographer
Art Silva
Posts: 10064
Santa Barbara, California, US
nwprophoto wrote:
I have read a lot of negatives about SF.
What is attraction?
Why do people want live there? One of the most diverse cultural and creative places on earth, not to mention the most beautiful city on the west coast or in the country with a mix of amazing architecture to the surrounding land and seascapes, a city that is minutes from redwood forests, beaches a couple hours to world class skiing and national parks.
Always something to do and see, taste, get inspired by and photograph in SF.
There is a reason why people will pay to live there.
Photographer
rmcapturing
Posts: 4859
San Francisco, California, US
When people talk about moving somewhere because it's cheap; the problem with that is that you then have to actually live there.
It gets cold here, but not freezing. It gets hot, but not burning. You want a certain cousine, you can have it. And there are lots of other pluses. Sure, there's negatives, like everywhere else. But the benefits far outweigh the negatives. I wish it wasn't as expensive also, but it is what it is.
Photographer
nwprophoto
Posts: 15005
Tonasket, Washington, US
Shadow Dancer wrote:
I did a search for female models within a 25 mile radius of Tonasket and found one in Oroville.
I'm sure the natural surroundings, peace and quiet is nice but I would go insane for lack of all the things that larger population centers offer. Not a judgement call on anything except my own temperment. Lots of models right here in the yard. Bobcats, cougars, bighorn sheep,
marmots, hawks, eagles, mountain bluebirds 
Osoyoos is real close by when a person craves the sophisticated stuff.
While it doesn't have a large full time population,
it is a major tourist destination in BC.
Photographer
nwprophoto
Posts: 15005
Tonasket, Washington, US
Art Silva wrote:
not to mention the most beautiful city on the west coast or in the country with a mix of amazing architecture to the surrounding land and seascapes, . Any city not filled with strip malls, big box stores and fast food chains would certainly be refreshing.
Photographer
Eye of the World
Posts: 1396
Corvallis, Oregon, US
kickfight wrote:
I sure am glad I got to live in SF back in the 80s when it was still somewhat affordable to the average salary-earner (OK, technically two salaries). Would not trade all those great memories for anything... the Record Finder and Bagdad Cafe near the Noe/Market intersection (both RIP), wandering the Mission district when it was still mostly artist lofts and drug dens (some really outstanding bands there at the time), living in the Inner Sunset just a block away from GGP, and of course soaking in the amazing sounds, sights, scents, and flavors of North Beach and Chinatown. *sigh* Good damn times! Lived there 1976-1980 during grad school. A couple of places those of us on student budgets liked.
The Yellow Submarine. https://hoodline.com/2015/04/inner-suns … dwich-shop
and Giorgio's Pizzeria at 3rd and Clement http://www.giorgiospizza.com/clement-street-location/
Photographer
kickfight
Posts: 35054
Portland, Oregon, US
Artist/Painter
ethasleftthebuilding
Posts: 16685
Key West, Florida, US
San Francisco is a wonderful place to live and is worth every bit of what it costs.
On the other hand, Texas might be cheaper, but it is total crap, the people are backwards hicks, it get WAY too hot in summer, there is nothing to see or do...so spare yourself the disappointment, please take the advice of someone who knows how terrible it is here and STAY AWAY FROM TEXAS!
This has been a free public service announcement from the "You Don't Want to Live in Texas" committee.
Photographer
TEB-Art Photo
Posts: 605
Carrboro, North Carolina, US
I love SF. Beautiful city and lots to do, in a region with plentiful scenic beauty. I don't expect to ever have the money to live there, though.
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
TEB-Art Photo wrote:
I love SF. Beautiful city and lots to do, in a region with plentiful scenic beauty. I don't expect to ever have the money to live there, though. I can't afford living there also!
Photographer
LA StarShooter
Posts: 2730
Los Angeles, California, US
The West Coast's big cities have been declining in terms of livability. It's not just cost. In L.A. last year the city quietly started to make plans for rationing. . . water. The claim was that it would cost that much more, just penalties for washing your clothes and showering on the same day . . .In the middle of last year, a new state law is pumping up restrictions. Los Angeles water supply system leaks badly. The big goal is to turn 8 minutes showers into three minutes. I won't be retiring in L.A. as it has become dreadful. The police don't investigate any theft under $5000. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … esidents-/
Photographer
rfordphotos
Posts: 8866
Antioch, California, US
LA StarShooter wrote:
The West Coast's big cities have been declining in terms of livability. It's not just cost. In L.A. last year the city quietly started to make plans for rationing. . . water. The claim was that it would cost that much more, just penalties for washing your clothes and showering on the same day . . .In the middle of last year, a new state law is pumping up restrictions. Los Angeles water supply system leaks badly. The big goal is to turn 8 minutes showers into three minutes.
I won't be retiring in L.A. as it has become dreadful. The police don't investigate any theft under $5000.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … esidents-/ I can easily understand how water rationing upsets you. I can easily see how it would diminish the quality of life in Los Angeles. It is a damn shame it has come to this.
Of course, I can see it clearly because I have already lived with water rationing here in Northern California. While the LA Metropolitan Water District (Largest single urban user of Northern California water) filled its reservoirs and watered the golf courses, I was forced to let my landscaping die and skip the long showers. I had mandatory water use cuts- with significant fines imposed if I didnt meet the goals. The salinity of my drinking water increased sharply because so much water was pumped south the "fresh" water in the river became salty from ocean water intrusion at low tide.
California water policies and politics are totally screwed up and have been for literally a hundred years or more.
Quality of life in the big cities is being destroyed by unchecked growth. Developers are eager to build, but the needed "infrastructure" jobs-roads-schools-WATER etc etc are rarely considered. Just build, reap the profits and move on... leaving cities that are literally unlivable.
Traffic is ridiculous- 10% of the people who live in Stockton and Lodi (80 miles east of San Francisco) commute into San Francisco- well over 90 minutes each way. Several other cities in the Central Valley have 8 to 10% of their people commuting a couple hours each way to San Francisco- people cannot afford to live in San Francisco, but the high paying jobs that do exist in California are in the big cities...(https://www.sfgate.com/traffic/article/ … 686485.php)
I have been telling my buddy up in Oregon I was going to move-he wants me to come up his way- I laughingly said it wasnt far enough... until yesterday I said maybe New Zealand.... now it looks like maybe the moon might be far enough...
Clothing Designer
GRMACK
Posts: 5436
Bakersfield, California, US
I got a laugh when my brother told me of the Cameron, CA airport near Sacramento. When he drove me around there, the streets were very wide and he asked me if I noticed "the very low street signs?" Seems the homes near the airport have very wide garages and they hold an airplane along with a couple of cars in them. Street signs are low so plane's wings will clear them on turning. People there fly into San Francisco to work in the mornings and then fly home in the evenings to escape the high housing in S.F. and save on drive time.
Weird to drive down a street and see an airplane driving on the street right at you making its way to the airport to take off.
Photographer
Shadow Dancer
Posts: 9775
Bellingham, Washington, US
LA StarShooter wrote:
The West Coast's big cities have been declining in terms of livability. It's not just cost. In L.A. last year the city quietly started to make plans for rationing. . . water. The claim was that it would cost that much more, just penalties for washing your clothes and showering on the same day . . .In the middle of last year, a new state law is pumping up restrictions. Los Angeles water supply system leaks badly. The big goal is to turn 8 minutes showers into three minutes.
I won't be retiring in L.A. as it has become dreadful. The police don't investigate any theft under $5000.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 … esidents-/ Barring a dramatic and profound change in the weather in California or a massive migration of humans to other locations, the water situation can only get worse.
Unsustainable paradigm for many reasons. I left California in 2005, no regrets other than missing some of my friends and family. Of course we have our own problems up here. Despite all the talk of catastropic earthquake/tsunami doomsday scenarios, the reality is that we are long overdue for a forest fire and with so many people living in homes nestled in the woods and so much dry fuel on the ground in summer, this will be a disaster of considerable magnitude.
The last two summers were the warning, the air in mid-summer was fouled with the smoke from wildfires in British Columbia, Eastern Washington and Siberia (25 million acres burned there since 2015). One of my next purchases is going to be a respirator mask, it was pretty bad here with just the smoke blowing in from hundreds of miles away. Hopefully never needed but $40 well spent if the worst happens.
I am in the city now but lived out in one of those homes nestled in the woods when I first moved up here. That first summer I called Security because kids were out in the middle of the forest setting off fireworks. Luckily, that activity was quickly quelled before it got out of hand but I'd had enough of the "woodsy" lifestyle at that point and sold the house.
On the other hand, without water humans have a short lifespan. Hard to say when but at some point there will be populated areas in California where turning the faucet on will produce a feeble dribble at best. The rush to the 7-11 to purchase drinking water will be vicious.
End result, a Mad Max movie - live and in person.
I might not move here again given the choices but I haven't found a better place or leveraged a way to move so I will sit it out. I've no plans to move back to California, that much is certain.
Glad I am older!!!!!
Photographer
Lightcraft Studio
Posts: 13682
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Shadow Dancer wrote:
Barring a dramatic and profound change in the weather in California or a massive migration of humans to other locations, the water situation can only get worse.
Unsustainable paradigm for many reasons. I left California in 2005, no regrets other than missing some of my friends and family. Of course we have our own problems up here. Despite all the talk of catastropic earthquake/tsunami doomsday scenarios, the reality is that we are long overdue for a forest fire and with so many people living in homes nestled in the woods and so much dry fuel on the ground in summer, this will be a disaster of considerable magnitude.
The last two summers were the warning, the air in mid-summer was fouled with the smoke from wildfires in British Columbia, Eastern Washington and Siberia (25 million acres burned there since 2015). One of my next purchases is going to be a respirator mask, it was pretty bad here with just the smoke blowing in from hundreds of miles away. Hopefully never needed but $40 well spent if the worst happens.
I am in the city now but lived out in one of those homes nestled in the woods when I first moved up here. That first summer I called Security because kids were out in the middle of the forest setting off fireworks. Luckily, that activity was quickly quelled before it got out of hand but I'd had enough of the "woodsy" lifestyle at that point and sold the house.
On the other hand, without water humans have a short lifespan. Hard to say when but at some point there will be populated areas in California where turning the faucet on will produce a feeble dribble at best. The rush to the 7-11 to purchase drinking water will be vicious.
End result, a Mad Max movie - live and in person.
I might not move here again given the choices but I haven't found a better place or leveraged a way to move so I will sit it out. I've no plans to move back to California, that much is certain.
Glad I am older!!!!! https://www.hbfreshwater.com/desalinati … dwide.html
Photographer
All Yours Photography
Posts: 2729
Lawton, Oklahoma, US
martin b wrote:
I live in a third world country. Those numbers just seem insane to me. I'm so used to living with a tiny budget that $3,500 is closer to a year's salary than a monthly rent for most filipinos. Maybe not to the extreme that you have, but those prices are pretty insane to many folks here in the US, especially once you get away from the coasts.
Photographer
Shadow Dancer
Posts: 9775
Bellingham, Washington, US
Lightcraft Studio wrote:
https://www.hbfreshwater.com/desalinati … dwide.html Technology is wonderful.
For every solution, there is a problem.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/envi … s-thought/
Cost is certainly a factor, buying drinking water if you don't have any is not optional. Infrastructure will be needed to move water efficiently, inspections will be needed, end users will have to pay both a cost and a profit if it is done through private enterprise, or tax payers will bear the brunt if it becomes a government program. If/when it becomes part of the political structure it could be a benefit or a weapon. Either way, the cost of living will increase.
We have a term up here "Drought Migrant". Grapes of Wrath phase 2?
Las Vegas can breathe easy once they figure out how to make fresh drinking water out of sand, perfect.
Photographer
C.C. Holdings
Posts: 914
Los Angeles, California, US
As someone that currently comfortably lives in San Francisco and Manhattan before that, all I can say is Fucking LOL The whole game is pretending you don't know anyone that can do it, and saying you got a "good deal" on your apartment (market rate 🤷♂️) Try not to fail, its the same game as the rest of the country just bigger numbers, geographic limitations and strange laws causing housing scarcity, and a great business culture to do it. The model talent knows we are here and know that we won't waste their time negotiating the rates on an art project for what is ultimately a 3-figure deal. Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
A model I used to shoot moved to SF and told me rents where higher there than NYC.
I couldnt comprehend that fact but research proved her right.
No wonder the homeless population is exploding there. Right, NYC offers way more within city limits, an aspiration that SF does not even try or pretend to reach for, as external Northern California amenities are crucial to the attraction. I don't aspire to own anything in SF or the bay area (aspirational extravagances like a nice house or yacht), so I'll probably leave if I can wrap up some business relationships (famous last words, cue narrator saying 30 years later....).
Photographer
C.C. Holdings
Posts: 914
Los Angeles, California, US
nwprophoto wrote:
I have read a lot of negatives about SF.
What is attraction?
Why do people want live there? The extreme pricing pressures keep me motivated and I like that being ahead on rent/expenses means I have thousands of dollars of disposable income, useful for events and any kind of FOMO travel anywhere in the world, alongside saving. Just moving to a cheaper place means removing the pressure and being complacent with the standard of living costs of that place, and likely not having the thousands of dollars of disposable income just from being at least 1 month ahead of rent. All of a sudden those festival tickets are noticeably expensive again.
I like the cultural relevancy and being in a place people want to come to, because they eventually will.
Manhattan was similar for me. NYC offers way more so I'll probably be back there eventually. I need Silicon Valley culture right now, and the arts are also great.
Photographer
Art Silva
Posts: 10064
Santa Barbara, California, US
nwprophoto wrote:
Any city not filled with strip malls, big box stores and fast food chains would certainly be refreshing. did you read the part I said about amazing (and I'll add) Historic architecture and the surrounding Land and Seascapes? Not All cities has that... I say visit sometime and see for yourself.
Photographer
martin b
Posts: 2770
Manila, National Capital Region, Philippines
All Yours Photography wrote:
Maybe not to the extreme that you have, but those prices are pretty insane to many folks here in the US, especially once you get away from the coasts. People here in Manila are complaining our housing is going up by 15% a year the last couple of years because of the Chinese speculation. I thought that was already a lot. I just found out the house across my brother living in Los Angeles went for sale at $2.2 million dollars. How do Americans afford this?
Photographer
C.C. Holdings
Posts: 914
Los Angeles, California, US
martin b wrote:
How do Americans afford this? A) They don't - There is Chinese speculation here too. Still Chinese buyers. Nobody without wealth and capital is affording this from their salary. Wage slaves are totally excluded from the real estate market, so you'd have to expand your frame of reference to relate to whats going on here too.
B) They do - there are also lot of people with a few million dollars.
C) Debt. You only need 0% to 30% of the stated value to get a low interest mortgage, depending on your history. Military veterans can get the house with 0% of the money put up front. The thing to notice is that if the house appreciates in value, 100% of the profit goes to the person that put no money up. Doing that for that outcome is speculation. So if you had no money and got that house, and sold it for 2.5 million, then you keep $300,000 in profit just like that. If the house goes down in value, you still owe the 2.2 million, oops.
D) Money laundering. If you don't need a mortgage and can buy a property for cash then no information is needed about the buyer. The real estate industry lobbied the US government for an exemption to anti-money laundering laws.
Photographer
martin b
Posts: 2770
Manila, National Capital Region, Philippines
C.C. Holdings wrote:
A) They don't - There is Chinese speculation here too. Still Chinese buyers. Nobody without wealth and capital is affording this from their salary. Wage slaves are totally excluded from the real estate market, so you'd have to expand your frame of reference to relate to whats going on here too.
B) They do - there are also lot of people with a few million dollars.
C) Debt. You only need 0% to 30% of the stated value to get a low interest mortgage, depending on your history. Military veterans can get the house with 0% of the money put up front. The thing to notice is that if the house appreciates in value, 100% of the profit goes to the person that put no money up. Doing that for that outcome is speculation. So if you had no money and got that house, and sold it for 2.5 million, then you keep $300,000 in profit just like that. If the house goes down in value, you still owe the 2.2 million, oops.
D) Money laundering. If you don't need a mortgage and can buy a property for cash then no information is needed about the buyer. The real estate industry lobbied the US government for an exemption to anti-money laundering laws. Americans just seem so rich. It's nice see when I visit how beautiful the cities are. I just couldn't imagine paying that much in rents and mortgages.
Photographer
LnN Studio
Posts: 303
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
A $20-40MIllion home is an investment and may attract money laundering but a $3600 a month one bedroom apartment is not an investment , it is an expense.
Photographer
goofus
Posts: 808
Santa Barbara, California, US
Photographer
C.C. Holdings
Posts: 914
Los Angeles, California, US
LnN Studio wrote:
A $20-40MIllion home is an investment and may attract money laundering but a $3600 a month one bedroom apartment is not an investment , it is an expense. Yes an important distinction
Now you can be the landlord and have fake tenants cleaning money by paying monthly rent
Photographer
C.C. Holdings
Posts: 914
Los Angeles, California, US
goofus wrote:
meh - no parking meh - don't need a car
the real luxury
Photographer
Shadow Dancer
Posts: 9775
Bellingham, Washington, US
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