udor wrote:
but a strain of hair is wild all over the place.

Personally I think "wild hair" only makes the image more realistic.

Laura UnBound wrote:

I didn't.

But hey, hit dogs holler.

I'm not quite sure what this means but if it is anywhere in the realm of what I think I would tread very lightly if I were you!!!

PHP-Photography wrote:

Personally I think "wild hair" only makes the image more realistic.

I think that you don't have much experience with art and creative directors from magazines or designers that pay your bills...

If the concept doesn't ask for "wild hair" and you do that against the agreement of your AD... it's not a good thing if you want to continue to be paid.

PHP-Photography wrote:
Personally I think "wild hair" only makes the image more realistic.

udor wrote:
I think that you don't have much experience with art and creative directors from magazines or designers that pay your bills...
If the concept doesn't ask for "wild hair" and you do that against the agreement of your AD... it's not a good thing if you want to continue to be paid.

Or if that is a pretty big name client in the industry, it's probably going to be the last time you work in that industry.

PHP-Photography wrote:
Personally I think "wild hair" only makes the image more realistic.

Chuckarelei wrote:
Or if that is a pretty big name client in the industry, it's probably going to be the last time you work in that industry.

... in other words... frankly speaking...

DanninTO wrote:

I'm not quite sure what this means but if it is anywhere in the realm of what I think I would tread very lightly if I were you!!!

...

It's an equivalent to the phrase "if the shoe fits"

https://www.quora.com/What-does-the-phr … oller-mean

aquarelle wrote:
This all began with my asking models to comment on an experience a young model shared with me.  A number of actual models contributed some helpful and inciteful observations, and shared some personal experiences. I thank them for that.

How this eventually became a place for photographers, who, I point out, are not “models,” to lecture, accuse, hector and argue among themselves about irrelevant topics I’m not sure.  But it impels me to ask the participating photographers, don’t you have a place of your own you can go to to do your ranting?

I think you meant " insightful "

Garry k wrote:

I think you meant " insightful "

. Correct.  Thank you.

udor wrote:
... in other words... frankly speaking...

PHP-Photography wrote:
Personally I think "wild hair" only makes the image more realistic.

Never did work "in that industry" and never will.

Mark Salo wrote:
I've missed something. What does "wild hair" have to do with “Whipping it Out”?

Touching a model's hair during a shoot became suddenly "one step away" from whipping out a photographers penis.

PHP-Photography wrote:
Never did work "in that industry" and never will.

Then don't make ignorant statements about practices in "that industry" or put moving a stray hair into the same context as sexual assault at a photo shoot.

Toodles for now!

udor wrote:

Then don't make ignorant statements about practices in "that industry" or put moving a stray hair into the same context as sexual assault at a photo shoot.
Toodles for now!

Yeah bc "in the industry" the photographer works alone with the model, no MUA or assistants around.

Jarrett Porst wrote:
There had existed a list @shitmodelmgmtlist on IG.  IG has hidden it from public.  It'd listed hundred of diseases that had been confirmed by several people.  Keep your eye out for it. 

This photography business, taking pictures of models, fashion, accessories, cars with, locations with, whatever with; liken it to visiting a bar, club, park, business, going out your front door,  on every occasion you would shoot.  There will be those diseases that don't belong here.  It's gonna take a movement, us, to eliminate it from our society.



J.

It can still be found with a simple google search

and it is very interesting

PHP-Photography wrote:
Yeah bc "in the industry" the photographer works alone with the model, no MUA or assistants around.

What are you talking about?

In the industry* (why are you adding quotation marks?) is a whole creative team on set, assistants, makeup and hair stylists, wardrobe stylists, the art director or another rep for the entity that foots the bill.

My smallest set has four people, without counting the model.

Do not equate touching a model's hair after announcing what you are doing to her, with being a step away from taking your penis out to initiate sexual assault!



* The Industry refers to fashion, accessories, marketing and advertising, where models are being utilized to present a product. Model Mayhem, hobby photographers and enthusiast that hire models for their personal projects and artistic expression is not part of that industry definition!

Rachel Jay wrote:

This is terrible advice.

Check references. Do NOT rely on an escort. I've had more bad experiences with escorts present than after doing my due diligence to make sure the person was worth working with. In addition to my comment above, having an escort never prevented me from not getting photos back (but checking references did). Other models' escorts have harassed me, made me uncomfortable during shoots by being rude to the person they were there for or by being obnoxious to photographers, and even stole from me.

An escort does not guarantee safety for anyone on set.

Interesting. I've shot models with escorts a few times but none of the escorts were bothersome at all. A couple were actually quite helpful carrying and moving things. However, every one of these shoots was unpleasant because of the model. The girls were train wrecks.

aquarelle wrote:
I was working with an MM Newbie recently, and I asked her how her experience had been so far.  “Pretty good I guess, except for a few creeps.”  She had worked with about a dozen or so photographers, and on her very first shoot, the guy “whipped it out.”

Another guy who seemed competent and professional gave her a ride home and “tweaked” her nipples before she could get out of the car.  Another guy got all pouty when the model insisted she could put the baby oil on herself.

And just for good measure, there was the other guy who “whipped it out.”

I asked her, “Jeez, after all that, why are you still here?” She said, “3 out of 12.  That’s 25&%— not a bad percentage, and I’m not gonna let a few creeps discourage me. And the other guys were fine.” 

I’d like to ask models, from your own experience, is her story typical?  And I ask the question as it might pertain to newer models who may not have yet learned the ropes about screening out the pervs.

25% is very high, but 12 is a very small sample size. I suspect the percentage will rapidly decrease as she gets more modeling under her belt.

Modelphilia wrote:
I don't really believe OP's story. It sounds to me like he actually just wants to enjoy hearing more stories like his, getting an erotic charge out of what he might hear, and so posted what he did. Not saying there aren't plenty of bad experiences out there, but this story smells fishy. It would be pretty unlikely for someone to have all those experiences in just twelve shoots.

Are you serious?

C G Photography wrote:
Are you serious?

Yes, I am totally serious. There are those who would get off on hearing a model's horror story, perhaps imagining themselves doing the same as the aberrant photographer, or even getting ideas for how to improve their chances of pulling off the same sort of thing without as many repercussions. The world of erotic thought extends in all sorts of strange directions.

The story sounds "fishy" because of the graphic nature of all the incidents, and because the percentage seems very high. Not saying I'm right, but OP's story doesn't pass my smell test.

aquarelle wrote:
This all began with my asking models to comment on an experience a young model shared with me.  A number of actual models contributed some helpful and insightful observations, and shared some personal experiences. I thank them for that.

How this eventually became a place for photographers, who, I point out, are not “models,” to lecture, accuse, hector and argue among themselves about irrelevant topics I’m not sure.  But it impels me to ask the participating photographers, don’t you have a place of your own you can go to do your ranting?

I love that this thread exists close to one about why models don't comment in the forums anymore. Well....hmmmm....gee I wonder why?

In any case, to answer your questions, yes, it's pretty normal. Especially when a model first joins the site, they will get inundated with asinine requests ranging from the humorously stupid to disgusting. Photographers will behave inappropriately, try to manipulate models, try to date or have sex with them, and will sometimes even do weird stuff like purchase their domain names to try to control them! That last one happened to me - a photographer from this site purchased my [name].com to keep within two weeks of meeting me during the first month I was modeling. He has done that to a number of models after they first began modeling.

And that doesn't even cover when photographers try to grope, sexually assault or coerce, or just spew inappropriate stuff about sex lives during a shoot. No, the majority of photographers on the site, or in general, do not do this. But it's enough that certain behaviors seem commonplace. Sexual assault/rape are the least likely things to occur but they do happen. Groping is more common but still not a regular part of the experience.
Saying inappropriate stuff though? Constant. It's extremely irritating. I've had to explain normal female hygiene to multiple men because they think discharge means a woman is turned on? It doesn't. I've had to explain that I don't care about how their wife doesn't have sex with them (seriously, I don't care and never will). I've had to explain that I don't want to date them (the reasons are generally blatantly obvious). I've been asked weird questions about my sex life that they are in no way a part of. I've been constantly asked what kind of men I like and had them act disappointed when I answer I like them to be within the same generation as myself (I know, how ageist of me, waaaaahhhhhh). I've had men insinuate I'm a lesbian or asexual because I won't sleep with them (yeah, cause that's the only reason I'd ever avoid such a charmer *eyeroll*). I have had men blatantly insult my body and then try to flirt (negging is very obvious fyi). The list could go on forever.

It's better as models get older - probably because the inappropriate ones think we're "old" now at the ripe old age of 27+.
But yes, the answer to your question is that it's very normal, especially for younger models. They're seen as easy targets unfortunately.

DanninTO wrote:
Laura UnBound]
I didn't.

But hey, hit dogs holler.uote]

I'm not quite sure what this means but if it is anywhere in the realm of what I think I would tread very lightly if I were you!!!

DanninTO,

I read it the same way you did, that she was accusing you of hollering like a hit dog and insinuating that you are scum just because you replied to her logically.
Jen
p.s. I'm sure a man wouldn't be allowed to reply as harshly as she did to you and get away with it...

aquarelle wrote:
This all began with my asking models to comment on an experience a young model shared with me.  A number of actual models contributed some helpful and insightful observations, and shared some personal experiences. I thank them for that.

How this eventually became a place for photographers, who, I point out, are not “models,” to lecture, accuse, hector and argue among themselves about irrelevant topics I’m not sure.  But it impels me to ask the participating photographers, don’t you have a place of your own you can go to do your ranting?

Oh, right, I apologize for not answering your question directly.
No one ever treated me as your model experienced.
Jen

C G Photography wrote:
=Modelphilia] I don't really believe OP's story. It sounds to me like he actually just wants to enjoy hearing more stories like his, getting an erotic charge out of what he might hear, and so posted what he did. Not saying there aren't plenty of bad experiences out there, but this story smells fishy. It would be pretty unlikely for someone to have all those experiences in just twelve shoots. uote]
Are you serious?

I actually had the same thought as him, (that possibly the OP was fishing for horny stories aka dear penthouse.) However, when I went back and read it was from Aquarelle I no longer thought that.
edit to say, then again, maybe the model in question was just dishing it out also, never know.
Jen

Figures Jen B wrote:
Oh, right, I apologize for not answering your question directly.
No one ever treated me as your model experienced.
Jen

Jen:
I am glad that no one has ever treated you like the OP's model.  But there are some obvious differences that may give you an advantage in avoiding the inappropriate treatment.  The most significant one is that you could intellectually and physically kick the butt of such a guy, and you are able to convey your willingness to do so with just a look. 

Figures Jen B wrote:

DanninTO,

I read it the same way you did, that she was accusing you of hollering like a hit dog and insinuating that you are scum just because you replied to her logically.
Jen
p.s. I'm sure a man wouldn't be allowed to reply as harshly as she did to you and get away with it...

You think that Dan accusing me of saying things that I did not is a logical reply to my statements? And that men are the ones who are treated unfairly for the way they speak to people?

Well. I guess that tracks.