Forums > Model Colloquy > Site is becoming useless

Photographer

Image-ination Studio

Posts: 3

Batavia, Illinois, US

I've left messages for 6 models that I would like to shoot with.
None of them have looked at their messages even though their site shows they have checked in since then.
Why can't MM cause the "Messages"  sign to flash when they have a message waiting? 
That at least might catch their attention so that they check their messages

Jan 18 20 02:20 pm Link

Photographer

Weldphoto

Posts: 658

Charleston, South Carolina, US

I think if a model it to dim to check her messages when she is on the site then I suspect she has no real interest in modeling. Who knows what she/he is doing here, but it is not looking for modeling opportunities. I don't know what the Site could do to get a model to read his/her messages. Flashing lights and horns might work, but I doubt it.

Jan 18 20 02:34 pm Link

Artist/Painter

Hunter GWPB

Posts: 5520

King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, US

My messages are forwarded to my email and I can read them there.  I know that everyone else on MM has the same option.  The only time I have to read a message that is in my inbox, is when I want to respond to it, and only then if the other person didn't leave me an alternative method to make my response.

It is possible that you didn't make an offer they are interested in. 

It isn't that MM is worthless.  It is what you make of it.  It might be harder to get people to work with on MM than it once was, but it beats many of the alternatives.  If someone is non-responsive, just move on.  All you have wasted is the time it takes to write one email.

Jan 18 20 02:43 pm Link

Photographer

TouchofEleganceStudios

Posts: 5474

Upland, California, US

My motto is : Next

Jan 18 20 06:34 pm Link

Photographer

Orca Bay Images

Posts: 33843

Nampa, Idaho, US

If they're that unreliable about reading their messages, imagine negotiating and scheduling a shoot with any of them. Think of the experience as dodging a few bullets.

Jan 18 20 07:56 pm Link

Photographer

Dorola

Posts: 425

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

I can tell you for sure that Facebook and Instagram are far worse than Model Mayhem. It seems that around 2012 is when I noticed that the replies to messages started to drop off. I found that there were much fewer agency models getting on MM and a lot more freelancers. Also, a lot of the newer models here are not agency level and have never been through the grind of an agency. They don't understand the need to validate, if any inquiry, is a real opportunity for themselves. So, I would say there there has been a change in the psychology of this demographic group. However there are quite a few experienced and traveling models that I admire and have booked. I even host them at my lakeside studio. The advantage of hiring an experienced model, is they get to business right away, before the shoot, they quickly establish what the themes of the shoots will be, can change looks quickly, will make suggestions on current trends and are great to network with. In the past few years, I've had over 600 successful model shoots. However, I've also had hundreds of planned shoots that did not happen due to lack of professionalism and just general ghosting. Since September, I've had about 14 no-shows and ghosting. These were all younger freelancers (under 25) that contacted me for TF but did not follow through with their commitment. In a lot of cases, it is better to pay a proper model her fee and be very sure that it is going to work out fine. Whenever I get contacted by a young freelancer, I don't have a high expectation that it is going to happen, so I just plan other work that I can do. If the models that you are sending inquires to are not answering, thank them for demonstrating their level of interest right at the point of first contact.

Jan 18 20 08:09 pm Link

Photographer

ExhibitPhoto

Posts: 9

Portland, Oregon, US

Dorola's point is very good.  With only four years of MM to draw upon, it does seem that the rise of the Instagram Model has flooded the market with flighty newbies.  That said, some cut'n'paste makes short work of the initial offering of a project and I've had great luck with models I've met here.  I've also had a steady flow of models reaching out to me when they're coming to my area.

Each photographer has a distinct style -- it may well be that your style doesn't fit the models available in your location.  My preference is for models without tattoos and living in Portland OR is something of a challenge for that!

Jan 18 20 09:31 pm Link

Photographer

Garry k

Posts: 29910

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

As a Photographer I will confess to currently having 282 messages from Models that I have not read

Most of which are from Models responding to 3 Casting Calls that I posted when visiting LA over the past couple of years

Sometimes the interest / response is so overwhelming that you can’t get to everyone

And You simply have to go with what You see as Far as their Look and Portfolio goes

Keeping in mind as well that it can be a lot of work simply communicating with those You are interested in shooting with

I am sure it is worse for Popular Models

Jan 19 20 01:08 am Link

Photographer

Al_Vee Photography

Posts: 43

Asheville, North Carolina, US

Instagram and Facebook are far more useful, because they have instant messaging systems. I have heard that the recent MM app is quite bad.

Jan 19 20 11:06 am Link

Photographer

Angel House Portraits

Posts: 232

Orlando, Florida, US

Some will tell you they hardly are on mm. They spend more time on IG or FB. The booking process is hard and long. I haven't booked a mm model in months. Its all been on FB and IG. I see this site becoming more and more less relevant.

Jan 19 20 10:02 pm Link

Photographer

Red Sky Photography

Posts: 3758

Germantown, Maryland, US

I don't understand how anyone books models off FB or IG.
This morning I have a friend suggestion for a model, picture is attractive.
I go to her page and it says she is a traveling model, based in the midwest, I'm on the East Coast.

Go to her about section, no city or state listed as home base. No stats. No preferred genres. No email.

Go to her photos, two images, one a 3/4 shot and one of her in a bathtub.

No matter how pretty she is, I'm not about to waist time messaging back and forth to learn where she is, if she travels, what her stats are and what genres she shoots. I can find all that on a profile here on MM.

Jan 20 20 08:16 am Link

Photographer

Wandering Eyebubble

Posts: 285

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

OP has been around for 15 years, it would seem that by now he would know the drill. In my experience MM has always been a crapshoot.

That being said, it works pretty well for me. I don't have FB or IG to compare, but I suspect I wouldn't be much better off. I TF once or twice a month, though, so it's not like I'm asking a whole lot to begin with.

It does get easier once you start building ongoing working relationships with people.

Jan 20 20 09:36 am Link

Photographer

Garry k

Posts: 29910

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Red Sky Photography wrote:
I don't understand how anyone books models off FB or IG.
.

You just send them a message

but some times  on ig Iit helps if you butter them up with a few nice comments on their photos first

Jan 20 20 04:46 pm Link

Photographer

J Wegener Photography

Posts: 33

Savannah, Georgia, US

I cannot claim that the site is useless yet but it's frustrating to use compared to former times.
I joined in 2009 - too late to become a legacy member so I'm now limited as a Basic Member.

When I joined, members on MM could freely communicate. Now one must jump through the
hoop of first sending a FR to become friends in order to communicate. I thought my limit for that
was three FR per 24 hours. I have not tried to contact a model on MM in many years - though I
have contacted some photographers. Just now I browsed for models and decided to try to communicate.
I sent two Friend Requests that are now pending. But when I attempted a third FR the site would not
acknowledge that I was sending a FR (no "Pending" wording after I clicked on the Friend Request).

Stuff like that may well harm the site if people get tired of the uncertainty that simple actions such
as sending a Friend Request is not carried through. Or perhaps it is that now as a Basic Member my
allotment of Friend Requests has been limited to just two every 24 hours.

Jan 20 20 11:13 pm Link

Photographer

Angel House Portraits

Posts: 232

Orlando, Florida, US

J Wegener Photography wrote:
I cannot claim that the site is useless yet but it's frustrating to use compared to former times.
I joined in 2009 - too late to become a legacy member so I'm now limited as a Basic Member.

When I joined, members on MM could freely communicate. Now one must jump through the
hoop of first sending a FR to become friends in order to communicate. I thought my limit for that
was three FR per 24 hours. I have not tried to contact a model on MM in many years - though I
have contacted some photographers. Just now I browsed for models and decided to try to communicate.
I sent two Friend Requests that are now pending. But when I attempted a third FR the site would not
acknowledge that I was sending a FR (no "Pending" wording after I clicked on the Friend Request).

Stuff like that may well harm the site if people get tired of the uncertainty that simple actions such
as sending a Friend Request is not carried through. Or perhaps it is that now as a Basic Member my
allotment of Friend Requests has been limited to just two every 24 hours.

I could not use the basic level to get models. Too cumbersome. I do still have the premium level. I always had before going on a long hiatus. It hasn't change in regards to pricing but I totally agree that even for those that have some kind of membership the change has had consequence and that is the exit of users. Look at the forums. They are just about dead.

Jan 21 20 07:58 am Link

Photographer

Shadow Dancer

Posts: 9471

Bellingham, Washington, US

J Wegener Photography wrote:
I cannot claim that the site is useless yet but it's frustrating to use compared to former times.
I joined in 2009 - too late to become a legacy member so I'm now limited as a Basic Member.

When I joined, members on MM could freely communicate. Now one must jump through the
hoop of first sending a FR to become friends in order to communicate. I thought my limit for that
was three FR per 24 hours. I have not tried to contact a model on MM in many years - though I
have contacted some photographers. Just now I browsed for models and decided to try to communicate.
I sent two Friend Requests that are now pending. But when I attempted a third FR the site would not
acknowledge that I was sending a FR (no "Pending" wording after I clicked on the Friend Request).

Stuff like that may well harm the site if people get tired of the uncertainty that simple actions such
as sending a Friend Request is not carried through. Or perhaps it is that now as a Basic Member my
allotment of Friend Requests has been limited to just two every 24 hours.

I am a legacy member and yes, it has it's advantages.
Consider signing up for Premium, sending out all the friend requests possible within a reasonable radius, sending them all messages and then dropping the Premium. That should at least get you in the game at a low cost.

Jan 21 20 11:19 am Link

Photographer

Art Silva

Posts: 10064

Santa Barbara, California, US

How times have changed. When corresponding with established models now very rarely in not at all are MM contacts asked for. It's usually Instagram, FB or straight up Email.
I have not booked a model here in Five Years.

Jan 21 20 03:05 pm Link

Photographer

Darren Brade

Posts: 3351

London, England, United Kingdom

Instagram is where everyone is at these days. I only remember this site when some model messages me. I very rarely use this site, maybe once a year.

The advantage for me with IG is I can follow many models and see them post regularly.

Model Mayhem died about 5 years ago after kicking off key models and photographers.

Feb 02 20 05:16 pm Link

Photographer

Barry Kidd Photography

Posts: 3348

Red Lion, Pennsylvania, US

It's been years since I've had any luck on MM.

I did send a message to perhaps 10 people a week ago.  I got 3 replies.  We'll see if any of them pan out.

Feb 03 20 10:54 am Link

Photographer

Brooklyn Bridge Images

Posts: 12946

Brooklyn, New York, US

Red Sky Photography wrote:
I don't understand how anyone books models off FB or IG.
This morning I have a friend suggestion for a model, picture is attractive.
I go to her page and it says she is a traveling model, based in the midwest, I'm on the East Coast.

Go to her about section, no city or state listed as home base. No stats. No preferred genres. No email.

Go to her photos, two images, one a 3/4 shot and one of her in a bathtub.

No matter how pretty she is, I'm not about to waist time messaging back and forth to learn where she is, if she travels, what her stats are and what genres she shoots. I can find all that on a profile here on MM.

Ditto
How do you even find models on IG ?
No Search No stats
Many times cant even judge appearance since basic comp card images are missing
Keep in mind the people evangelizing social media sites are in no way objective.

Feb 03 20 02:59 pm Link

Photographer

matt-h2

Posts: 802

Oakland, California, US

My bookings are probably 50% MM, 30% IG;  the rest are mostly referrals from other models and friends.

IG is a different animal--you need to pay attention to who is following you, liking what you post, and follow back judiciously. Some people list their location, others leave enough bread crumbs to figure it out (I'm guessing some make it hard b/c of stalkers).

Feb 04 20 08:56 am Link

Model

Liv Sage

Posts: 374

New York, New York, US

I have messages from MM sent directly to my email. So, I always see them - not all models using the site do this though.

From my personal experience, the following are reasons I won't open an email on this site (and will often delete the email without ever opening it):

-Offers of tfp. When I was a new model, this wasn't something I'd necessarily ignore depending on the photographer. But now, I pretty much delete every request without opening. It's a waste of my time to bother with answering it as I've clearly defined that I only accept paid work.
-The photographer's portfolio is filled with images that are beyond my shooting limits. I'm not going to get into an email exchange where I'm arguing about my basic boundaries (this is usually what happens when I respond to those photographers).
-The message is stupid/incoherent/throws up red flags/seems overly familiar or demanding.
-The photographer is seriously lowballing my rates. No, I won't dance on the hood of a BMW in a parking garage for $35...I won't do that for any amount of money, but definitely not $35. Yes, that's an actual offer I've had on this site. I deleted it with no response.

Otherwise, I'll generally respond. But, this has been my main job for years. If you're messaging models who do not do this professionally, they tend to respond much less frequently. It makes sense. I often do figure drawing as a hobby, and if someone from the art groups started messaging me for anything, I would feel zero pressure to respond. They aren't paying my rent, and it's not something vital to my career/feeding myself/transitioning career/etc. So I respond when I want.

Same thing is at play here. If these are professional models however, and you're sending them paid offers, I'd be very confused too.

Feb 04 20 10:22 am Link

Photographer

HiResPhotographs

Posts: 49

Corona, California, US

Liv Sage wrote:
I have messages from MM sent directly to my email. So, I always see them - not all models using the site do this though.

I think part of the problem is it's off by default.  You have to know to go to your settings to turn it on.  Also, the setting to have the message show in the email is labeled "Notification Format".  How in the hell is anyone going to think that's the "Show text of messages in notifications" option.  They should have just labeled it as "Show text of messages in notifications".

Feb 04 20 11:36 am Link

Photographer

Eric212Grapher

Posts: 2843

Saint Louis, Missouri, US

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
Ditto
How do you even find models on IG ?
No Search No stats
Many times cant even judge appearance since basic comp card images are missing
Keep in mind the people evangelizing social media sites are in no way objective.

Use tags to find them.

https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/oaklandmodel/
https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/oaklandmodels/

https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/californiamodel/
https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/ … niamodels/

Some are better at making it known how to contact them beyond IG messages.

Feb 05 20 03:37 am Link

Photographer

Garry k

Posts: 29910

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Most Agency Models have IG accounts and Some even are still using FB ( but they certainly are not on this site )

I have found that IG and FB can be good ways to contact such Models - and they might be allowed and willing to work directly with Photographers ( bypassing thier Agency )

Certainly there are a lot of Wannabe and Neverwillbe models on these sites - You just need to know what You are looking for and how to get thier interest - which I have often found to be the offer of good photography and some $

Feb 05 20 11:59 am Link

Photographer

LA StarShooter

Posts: 2617

Los Angeles, California, US

The site still works for me. It really depends on what you offer. Currently, I am lining up to do a fashion film for a festival entry so it's an unusual project.

Beyond money:  the casting posting, which I use when contacting agency models here, has to get across how interesting a project it is. I don't have a budget so I have to dazzle.

When contacting a model or doing a casting a question is to ask yourself what is so special about your offer that they can visualize and see this is something important for them.

People I work with, from makeup artists to models happen to get booked a lot so standing out really helps.

Feb 05 20 12:37 pm Link

Photographer

Garry k

Posts: 29910

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

LA StarShooter wrote:
The site still works for me. It really depends on what you offer. Currently, I am lining up to do a fashion film for a festival entry so it's an unusual project.

Beyond money:  the casting posting, which I use when contacting agency models here, has to get across how interesting a project it is. I don't have a budget so I have to dazzle.

When contacting a model or doing a casting a question is to ask yourself what is so special about your offer that they can visualize and see this is something important for them.

People I work with, from makeup artists to models happen to get booked a lot so standing out really helps.

Yes - Casting has worked well for me in LA

( but not so good at home anymore )

Feb 05 20 01:37 pm Link

Photographer

KungPaoChic

Posts: 4221

West Palm Beach, Florida, US

Not everyone gets message notifications. I know I don't. There are a lot of profiles up on here that aren't necessarily active. It is helpful to check and see when the last time the profile was active.

But for sure this site is not what it used to be.

Feb 06 20 09:32 am Link

Photographer

J Wegener Photography

Posts: 33

Savannah, Georgia, US

Shadow Dancer wrote:

I am a legacy member and yes, it has it's advantages.
Consider signing up for Premium, sending out all the friend requests possible within a reasonable radius, sending them all messages and then dropping the Premium. That should at least get you in the game at a low cost.

Thank you for the suggestion but there is no  “game” in my area to get into regarding MM. The models I seek are not here
although I did have much success from 2010 to 2014 using MM. I turned professional as a photographer in 1975 and have worked with inexperienced models since 1972 in my city. So I do not necessarily require professional models.

I have never been in an urgent rush to locate models. Models or wannabe models simply are no longer joining MM in my area. I was able to find and work with models for decades before Model Mayhem was ever conceived. It’s a nice concept but has in recent years not been useful to me at all.

Feb 10 20 10:52 am Link

Photographer

Shadow Dancer

Posts: 9471

Bellingham, Washington, US

J Wegener Photography wrote:
I cannot claim that the site is useless yet but it's frustrating to use compared to former times.
I joined in 2009 - too late to become a legacy member so I'm now limited as a Basic Member.

When I joined, members on MM could freely communicate. Now one must jump through the
hoop of first sending a FR to become friends in order to communicate. I thought my limit for that
was three FR per 24 hours. I have not tried to contact a model on MM in many years - though I
have contacted some photographers. Just now I browsed for models and decided to try to communicate.
I sent two Friend Requests that are now pending. But when I attempted a third FR the site would not
acknowledge that I was sending a FR (no "Pending" wording after I clicked on the Friend Request).

Stuff like that may well harm the site if people get tired of the uncertainty that simple actions such
as sending a Friend Request is not carried through. Or perhaps it is that now as a Basic Member my
allotment of Friend Requests has been limited to just two every 24 hours.

J Wegener Photography wrote:

Thank you for the suggestion but there is no  “game” in my area to get into regarding MM. The models I seek are not here
although I did have much success from 2010 to 2014 using MM. I turned professional as a photographer in 1975 and have worked with inexperienced models since 1972 in my city. So I do not necessarily require professional models.

I have never been in an urgent rush to locate models. Models or wannabe models simply are no longer joining MM in my area. I was able to find and work with models for decades before Model Mayhem was ever conceived. It’s a nice concept but has in recent years not been useful to me at all.

Given the context of your previous post, your second post does not make much sense to me.
If you wanted to send out friend requests, as your first post indicates, I've given you an option that would allow not only sending friend requests but also PMs at a very low cost. All models on MM would be wthin reach of your commincations. Note that I said a "reasonable radius', that is subjective to each member. I did not specify your area per se.

If one month of Premium is too expensive then I have no other solutions. Best of luck to you!!! SD

Feb 11 20 10:29 pm Link

Photographer

fotopfw

Posts: 923

Kerkrade, Limburg, Netherlands

I have no problem finding models still on MM. I guess that having paid jobs works different.

Feb 15 20 02:24 am Link

Photographer

Jim Shibley

Posts: 3309

Phoenix, Arizona, US

I worked with a traveling model last Friday who said she books most of her work here. She posts traveling notices & gets responses. She has a small Suv equipped for camping if she needs to do that while traveling.

Feb 16 20 10:40 am Link

Photographer

JQuest

Posts: 1975

Syracuse, New York, US

I've booked 5 models off this site in February up to today's date. All five showed up, and there were no deceased grand parents. I probably would have booked a couple more however I'm heading south for a couple of weeks, so I've already scheduled three other models (also from this site) for later in March after my return.

Feb 17 20 02:27 pm Link

Clothing Designer

Chain Reaction

Posts: 548

Grand Rapids, Michigan, US

I think it became just another social media site several years ago. Just give me the likes and adoration I crave. Not all, mind you, but many.

The site has received a lot of bad rap and I know a lot of people don't want to waste their time here. I only check here maybe twice a year myself. I used to be very active here but I have found I can get so much more bang for the buck elsewhere. I haven't even tried to work with anyone here for many years now.

Good, bad, or indifferent, it is what it is. I don't see this site making a huge comeback anytime soon. And as the world marches on...

Feb 17 20 08:05 pm Link

Photographer

IMAGINERIES

Posts: 1840

New York, New York, US

I think the site is still working if you are willing to compensate the models...….

Feb 18 20 07:26 pm Link

Photographer

Dan OMell

Posts: 1377

Charlotte, North Carolina, US

to reason:
(1) numbers game
(2) up your art to make you more of potential interest
(3) grow FAT skin (for the game)

anyways, a good indicator sometimes. it's easier to blame something else, though. yes, MM  kinda sucks, but there is not valuable alternative. maybe models.com (?!) smile smile smile
IMHO

May 23 20 02:17 pm Link

Photographer

Green Wave Photo 312

Posts: 90

Chicago, Illinois, US

I honestly find craigslist infinitely more resourceful for finding talent than MM anymore. But then again, generally I'm casting for lifestyles shoots. I have a casting on here from 2 days ago for a paid shoot ($300) and I've had 1 reply. Posted the same time on craigslist and I've had 8.

I also think when they changed it so that you can't even actually send a message to a model anymore unless they are in your "network" or whatever destroyed what little benefit there still was with finding talent on here. I used to post a casting and then do a search and send messages to all the models that fit the bill telling them to take a look at my casting for details on a shoot I think they'd be great for. Now it's like, what's the point of searching for a model if you can't contact them? lol. Kinda crazy.

Jun 27 20 05:21 pm Link

Photographer

Green Wave Photo 312

Posts: 90

Chicago, Illinois, US

IMAGINERIES wrote:
I think the site is still working if you are willing to compensate the models...….

A photographer friend of mine said something years ago that cracked me up and I always remember, he said photographers don't pay models, clients do.

What's changed around here over the past ten years or so is that models used to be enthusiastic about getting "new work" and "collaborating" to make something cool to show off. Now I see models with all cell phone selfies on their portfolios here and "paid work only!" stated rudely on their profiles.. "this is my profession" "I do this for a living and so I can't afford to work for free" and all this. Does no good to explain to them that with a test shoot payment is in the form of great images. But they sure expect to get images even if they are paid don't they? Does no good to explain that even agency models test with photographers who can benefit their books.

I had a travel model reach out to me a few days ago saying she was going to be in town. I said I don't have any jobs coming up that you'd fit but let me know if you'd like to test. She rudely responded that this is her living and she doesn't work for free. I responded, Well I don't work for free either, and I certainly don't pay to work.

Yeah, there are still some great models on here with great work doing their thing. But a lot of the new models it seems to me aren't interested in becoming skilled at modeling they're just looking for some extra cash. And they expect photographers to pay them to learn AND provide images, retouched please, in a timely manner.

Jun 27 20 05:35 pm Link

Photographer

IMAGINERIES

Posts: 1840

New York, New York, US

is it conceivable the pandemic may have something to do with this?......

Jun 28 20 06:14 am Link

Photographer

Bob Helm Photography

Posts: 18548

Cherry Hill, New Jersey, US

Six isn't really that many/. When I was in sales they said the response rate on direct mail is about 2 %, To make one sale you needed to talk to 5 customers and to talk to five customers you need to have five appointments.

I can understand having a list of models you want to shoot, I know I do but the list that I contact is a lot longer than the just the ones I want to shoot the most.

Have you tried a casting call? Your friends list is very selective for someone on here as long as you have been and if it was less selective a Bulletin would reach all of them at one time.

Have you considered the offer you made and how attractive it may be to your target audience?

Yes in the past it has been easier but we need to use all the tools we have at our disposal.

Jun 28 20 10:04 am Link