kickfight wrote:
Well, that's the thing: grown-ass adults DO have the responsibility to protect ....

I didn't get three shots just for myself. I don't wear masks just for myself. I don't practice social distancing just for myself. I don't get tested when necessary just for myself. I also do all these things for the benefit of total strangers... strangers who I trust to do the right thing in kind. We do these things together now, so that we may ALL benefit in the long run together.

One of my neighbors lost one of his legs, just above the knee, a couple of years ago.  He had been in crappy shape for a while.  Loosing the leg solved a lot of health problems.  He went from being very heavily medicated with opioids to no pain medication in a matter of months.  His problems overlapped with the area of medicine concurring with my wife's expertise.  She was always willing to answer questions and provide recommendations.  I had to go over there a few times and lift him off the floor.  I also built him wheel chair ramps so he could get in and out his house.

One of my other neighbors was recently married before the other neighbor lost his leg.  She lost her husband very shortly after they married.  The woman was very distraught.  At lunch time, the woman who lost her husband would go get the neighbor who lost his leg, and nearly everyday for a year, she walked him around the block.  He usually rode his motorized wheel chair to start with, but gradually moved to a walker after being fitted with an artificial limb, and eventually walked the block.  He can do it alone now.  They credit each other with saving each other's lives.

When it snows here, people come out and help each other.  The guy with tractor does stuff.  The guys with the snow blowers do stuff, including the one legged guy.  Some of the women shovel and sweep off cars.  Nobody needs to do their driveway alone and some people never come outside to help at all.  Usually with good reason because of health issues.  We try to chase one old man back into his house, but he never goes.  It snowed last night and earlier in the day, the wife of the guy with the tractor was released from the hospital after a long delayed surgey that requires her to be non-ambulatory for a period to be determined by her rate of recovery.  When her husband came out this morning to help with snow, his driveway was done.  His sidewalks were done.  And people in the neighborhood are providing prepared food for the next week or longer despite his assurances that they are fine. 

All I can say is that it must really suck to live among people who are not like the people in my neighborhood and who limit themselves to being responsible for themselves and only themselves.  Some people may not think that helping with snow or being there for each other is a big deal, but I think they are too cold hearted to really know what it means to make other people a priority.  I don't believe I have ever lived anywhere that the people could be described as people who believe  that it is "NOT my responsibility to protect anyone else's health, be a grown man and protect yourself," including Idaho and South Central Florida.  Though I did find "Southern Hospitality" and "Christian compassion" to be a myth in rural South Florida, except in a very small percentage of the people.  My Southern Belle (not really, she is more down to earth and not stuck on herself) sister-in-law insists it is real, but she lives in New Jersey now, where she also is a member of a neighborhood that gives a crap about each other.

BTW, the guy that lost his leg almost died a while back from E. coli in the lungs.  Subsequently, during the pandemic, he picked up Covid-19 in the first wave.  He said the only time in his life he had ever been sicker then he was when he had Covid-19, was when he had E coli in his lungs.  He has since been vaccinated but has manage to get a mild case of it again several months after his vaccination and the booster had to be put off for a duration after the second case.  As of now, he has an appointment date for the booster.  As indicated by the experts, the vaccine did prevent him from a serious bout the second time around.  He is also a trump supporter, but not one of those lemmings that follow all the rightist fringe lunatic rhetoric.  But, unfortunately, some of it.

Joe Tomasone wrote:

Globefunseekers wrote:
I didn't come up with that, it's been reported, I know it's not the reporting you trust, but it's out there, I didn't make it up.  I know the fact checkers come to the rescue, but you can't prove the vaccine even works but you don't see any fact checking proving otherwise, can YOU prove the vaccines work?  You can't, you just hope they do, you look at data that implies that it works, same as the deaths, it's data.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/20000 … -vaccines/

20,000 covid vaccine deaths reported to VAERS?   Hmm.  What does VAERS say about their data?

Joe Tomasone wrote:
How can we tell the vaccines work?  Simple - looking at infection numbers versus vaccination numbers, getting the vaccination status of those who test positive, and when breakthrough infections occur, seeing the impact versus that in the unvaccinated.

Infections based on inacurate tests, that's also been determined by just about everyone, including Dr. Fauci, and positive cases don't mean sick or even contagious, it's all just data, mostly inaccurate.  In fact this all thing is mostly based on modeling by an Englishman (I think) called Neil Fergoson, who FYI historically has always been know to make absurd exagerations on his modeling.

kickfight wrote:
dults, wear masks like grown-ass adults, practice common sense protocols like grown-ass adults, etc)

I didn't get three shots just for myself. I don't wear masks just for myself. I don't practice social distancing just for myself. I don't get tested when necessary just for myself. I also do all these things for the benefit of total strangers... strangers who I trust to do the right thing in kind. We do these things together now, so that we may ALL benefit in the long run .

Yes you did, you did all those things for yourself, I'm a realist, I see through most crap, people aren't avoiding others, for the protection of others, there's those bike riding, walking and driving by themselves with their masks, not to protect others, they're often by themselves, maybe some exceptions, but most, it's for themselves, and you got the subscription to pfizer also for yourself, that's what you were told the vaccine did, "the science" didn't say it was like the mask to protect others it told you it was for you, and you believed it.

rfordphotos wrote:
Globefunseekers has to post his fantasies here---if he posted the same lies on Twitter---they would ban him, just like they banned Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Twitter Permanently Suspends Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Account

The social media service said the Republican congresswoman had violated its policy on coronavirus misinformation.

By Davey Alba
Jan. 2, 2022
----  https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/02/tech … itter.html

Twitter on Sunday permanently suspended the personal account of Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene, a Republican of Georgia, after the company said she had violated its Covid-19 misinformation policies.


Twitter suspended Ms. Greene’s account after she tweeted on Saturday, falsely, about “extremely high amounts of Covid vaccine deaths.” She included a misleading chart that pulled information from a government database of unverified raw data called the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, or VAERS, a decades-old system that relies on self-reported cases from patients and health care providers.

ohhh, look, still trying to get me banned, we understood it the first time.  Maybe you can go spy on a kneighbor and call the cops if he has too many people over.

Globefunseekers wrote:
ohhh, look, still trying to get me banned, we understood it the first time.  Maybe you can go spy on a kneighbor and call the cops if he has too many people over.

Maybe you should re-read my post--- I said nothing about banning you here on MM----just Twitter.

I did say that Twitter permanently banned Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene for posting the same lies about vaccine injuries you  did.

Still waiting patiently for your proof of your claim of  a MILLION injuries and 20 THOUSAND deaths from the vaccine---  Rep. Greene couldnt prove it--- that is why Twitter banned her--- prove your claim. Like I said-- prove it without a pointing us to another faceless blogger on some out of this world conspiracy driven website...

You cannot.

rfordphotos wrote:

Maybe you should re-read my post--- I said nothing about banning you here on MM----just Twitter.

I did say that Twitter permanently banned Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene for posting the same lies about vaccine injuries you  did.

Still waiting patiently for your proof of your claim of  a MILLION injuries and 20 THOUSAND deaths from the vaccine---  Rep. Greene couldnt prove it--- that is why Twitter banned her--- prove your claim. Like I said-- prove it without a pointing us to another faceless blogger on some out of this world conspiracy driven website...

You cannot.

Well, I can't raise the dead to give you a face, and the vax sellers will never admit it.  but I can show you some of the survivors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYjTlfZn7R8&t=2s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuaVkvdRldk

Globefunseekers wrote:
Well, I can't raise the dead to give you a face, and the vax sellers will never admit it.  but I can show you some of the survivors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYjTlfZn7R8&t=2s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuaVkvdRldk

1,000,000 - 2 = 999.998 -------  I am NOT saying there are not rare side effects- there have indeed been some documented side effects from the vaccine just like every other vaccine, those issues are well documented by the FDA, and are readily available public records. No one is hiding anything.

But 1 MILLION? Nope, there is absolutely no proof of any such numbers- NONE.

Again- ALL vaccines, measles, flu, polio you name it--- All have had RARE side effects, some serious, most not.

But you cannot show us records of 1 MILLION because 1 MILLION have not had "injuries" ----  that number is just another of your fictions.

Like I said- Representative Greene failed to prove it---and I am betting she had more resources looking than you do...

you cant prove your claim because it is a gross exaggeration , another fiction dreamed up by the anti vax, anti govt crowd you seem to favor.

rfordphotos wrote:

1,000,000 - 2 = 999.998 -------  I am NOT saying there are not rare side effects- there have indeed been some documented side effects from the vaccine just like every other vaccine, those issues are well documented by the FDA, and are readily available public records. No one is hiding anything.

But 1 MILLION? Nope, there is absolutely no proof of any such numbers- NONE.

Again- ALL vaccines, measles, flu, polio you name it--- All have had RARE side effects, some serious, most not.

But you cannot show us records of 1 MILLION because 1 MILLION have not had "injuries" ----  that number is just another of your fictions.

Like I said- Representative Greene failed to prove it---and I am betting she had more resources looking than you do...

you cant prove your claim because it is a gross exaggeration , another fiction dreamed up by the anti vax, anti govt crowd you seem to favor.

I agree with most of that, all vaccines have some side effects, in most cases it's even worth the risk, and the reason we know of this is the data, mostly from Vaers as well as long term studies, In the case of the Covid vaccines however no long term studies have been conducted, you are the study, and the vaers reports have surpassed ALL other vaccines combined for over 3 decades.  There is no data as of yet on the long term effects, just the short term which are many.  Now the good news of this is that in most vaccines the effects are often within the first few months, so if you've had it with no reactions you're most likely good, and the vast majority are.  But it's certainly not rare.  Rare is an isolated case, there are reports daily from this one.

Now a big difference from those other vaccines you're trying to compare to, is that in those cases we know the studies, they'll show you an insert with all the safety data, this one has none, ask your Farmacist, you also know the dosage, so for example Hep b, you know it's 2-3 and then you're done, even the flu you know it's 1 per year, which you can opt out, this one has no dosage, they said it would be 2, J&J 1, then 3, some are on the 4th and 5th already, now maybe every 6 months to every year, they don't even know that, how can they know long term effects when they can't even get the dosage right?  I know, it mutates, bla, bla, bla, I'm not going to be coersed to take a product that I can't have any information I can rely on, especially if it comes with potencial, rare or not, consequences some of which are deadly.

Globefunseekers wrote:
Yes you did, you did all those things for yourself

Nope, you're wrong again. I know you keep trying to convince yourself that the world somehow fits what you've been sold by the conspiracy-theory industrial complex, but that worldview is false.

I did those things for both myself and others. Not just for myself, but for others as well. The more you claim otherwise, the more incorrect you will be, and nothing will change that fact.

Globefunseekers wrote:
, I'm a realist, I see through most crap

Then why do you keep consuming it and regurgitating it? Because that's all you've been posting here... pure crap. You don't "see through it"... you, in fact, apparently subsist on it. You need to let go of all the crap. It's doing you no good, because it's crap. It's ideological waste. It's toxic refuse. Let. It. GO.

Globefunseekers wrote:
people aren't avoiding others, for the protection of others, there's those bike riding, walking and driving by themselves with their masks, not to protect others, they're often by themselves, maybe some exceptions, but most, it's for themselves, and you got the subscription to pfizer also for yourself, that's what you were told the vaccine did, "the science" didn't say it was like the mask to protect others it told you it was for you, and you believed it.

Again, all false and incorrect, as per usual.

The people YOU saw bike riding, walking, and driving by themselves with their masks are also protecting others, because ---duh--- they're eventually going to encounter others, which is how YOU saw them. I mean, they weren't bike riding, walking, or driving in the middle of the desert, right? So, YOU are one of those "others" they were protecting when YOU claim YOU saw them. See how that works?

It's also false and incorrect that we get vaccines just for ourselves. The science, which is accurate despite all the crackpot loony lies, informs us that vaccines protect everyone by reducing the number of infection vectors. By being vaccinated, I'm far less likely to infect someone else. Vaccines are not just for the benefit of the person getting the shot. They are for the benefit of everyone, and the science has made that abundantly clear and obvious for the last 100+ years.

So, despite having made it clear to all of us that you don't care about others, seriously... just let go of the lies and the fraudulent bogus claims on the internet and all the other nonsense you've been consuming, if for no other reason but to protect yourself. It's perfectly OK if you do it for purely selfish reasons... just fucking do it already.

Globefunseekers wrote:
I agree with most of that, all vaccines have some side effects, in most cases it's even worth the risk, and the reason we know of this is the data, mostly from Vaers as well as long term studies,[...]
blah blah blah ad infinitum

You really dont have a clue about what VAERS is, or how it is used. It has been explained to you, and you refuse to pay attention to the FACTS of what the system is and what it is used for.

In the post above you even acknowledge the longer term studies...

The data in VAERS is UNCONFIRMED. It is a dumping ground for raw, unrefined, untested information---FROM ANY SOURCE---even RABID ANTI VAXXERs with their axes to grind.

Before the data in VAERS can be even remotely useful, it must be checked by QUALIFIED vaccine experts, by Medical doctors, by epidemiologists to screen out the cases that simply have no basis in fact, to screen out the cases that are proven to be unrelated to the vaccine, to screen out the anti vaxxers and their wiid conspiracies...

Once ALL the obvious dross is skimmed off, the data that is left is examined to see if there is a situation involving the vaccine that merits a more thorough investigation.

all this has been explained to you before. It is easily found information for ANYBODY with the intellectual honesty to try and understand the data.

The fact that you keep repeating data you know is unfounded does not speak highly for your cause.

kickfight wrote:

Globefunseekers wrote:
Yes you did, you did all those things for yourself

Nope, you're wrong again. I know you keep trying to convince yourself that the world somehow fits what you've been sold by the conspiracy-theory industrial complex, but that worldview is false.

I did those things for both myself and others. Not just for myself, but for others as well. The more you claim otherwise, the more incorrect you will be, and nothing will change that fact.

Globefunseekers wrote:
, I'm a realist, I see through most crap

Then why do you keep consuming it and regurgitating it? Because that's all you've been posting here... pure crap. You don't "see through it"... you, in fact, apparently subsist on it. You need to let go of all the crap. It's doing you no good, because it's crap. It's ideological waste. It's toxic refuse. Let. It. GO.


Again, all false and incorrect, as per usual.

The people YOU saw bike riding, walking, and driving by themselves with their masks are also protecting others, because ---duh--- they're eventually going to encounter others, which is how YOU saw them. I mean, they weren't bike riding, walking, or driving in the middle of the desert, right? So, YOU are one of those "others" they were protecting when YOU claim YOU saw them. See how that works?

It's also false and incorrect that we get vaccines just for ourselves. The science, which is accurate despite all the crackpot loony lies, informs us that vaccines protect everyone by reducing the number of infection vectors. By being vaccinated, I'm far less likely to infect someone else. Vaccines are not just for the benefit of the person getting the shot. They are for the benefit of everyone, and the science has made that abundantly clear and obvious for the last 100+ years.

kickfight wrote:
So, despite having made it clear to all of us that you don't care about others, seriously... just let go of the lies and the fraudulent bogus claims on the internet and all the other nonsense you've been consuming, if for no other reason but to protect yourself. It's perfectly OK if you do it for purely selfish reasons... just fucking do it already.

I don't have to do it, I don't live in fear of this or any other virus.  Keep telling yourself that you wear your mask in the car by yourself with the windows closed that you do it for others.  You're so brave and inteligent.  I wish I could be more like you.

Globefunseekers wrote:
I don't live in fear of this or any other virus.

I dunno. You say that, but... I dunno. I remain highly skeptical of such a claim. Otherwise, why not engage in the simple mundane process of inoculation, mask-wearing, and other protocols? The products churned out by the conspiracy-theory industrial complex seem like they cause a lot more emotional (and potentially physical) damage to its consumers, what with always having to keep up with the newest trendy plastic chunk of BS, and/or the newest magical preventive amulet, and/or the newest vial of snake oil that they manufacture. Sure seems like an extremely stressful process, and unnecessarily so.

My take on it (and I know I am not alone in this opinion) is that the anti-vaxxer/anti-masker contingent in fact seems to live in a perpetual state of sheer rampant terror, not only of the virus itself but also of the most reliable means of addressing it (vaccines, masks, etc). That compounded fear comes across very clearly by the borderline-apoplectic stridency of their rhetoric's overall tone. It certainly doesn't help their cause that the overwhelming majority of their claims are always proven to be completely false.

Globefunseekers wrote:
Keep telling yourself that you wear your mask in the car by yourself with the windows closed that you do it for others.

I don't have to tell myself that, because the truth stands on its own merit, unlike conspiracy-theory nonsense which collapses on arrival every single time by the sheer ponderous weight of its incompetence.

Globefunseekers wrote:
You're so brave and inteligent.  I wish I could be more like you.

Nah, not brave or intelligent, just not susceptible to indoctrination by falsehood-profiteers like Alex Jones and Joe Rogan and their ilk, or the Internet Ministry of Misinformation's delusional edicts and toxic-product lines.

Globefunseekers wrote:
Now a big difference from those other vaccines you're trying to compare to, is that in those cases we know the studies, they'll show you an insert with all the safety data, this one has none, ask your Farmacist,

Well, the good news is that you don't have to ask your pharmacist nowadays, it's on the Internet.

Pfizer: https://safetydatasheets.pfizer.com/Dir … ~~PFEM~~EN

Moderna: https://www.fda.gov/media/144637/download

Astra-Zeneca: https://www.astrazeneca.com.au/content/ … 6SEP20.pdf

Globefunseekers wrote:
you also know the dosage, so for example Hep b, you know it's 2-3 and then you're done, even the flu you know it's 1 per year, which you can opt out, this one has no dosage, they said it would be 2, J&J 1, then 3, some are on the 4th and 5th already, now maybe every 6 months to every year, they don't even know that, how can they know long term effects when they can't even get the dosage right?

The polio and measles vaccines - just to name two - require multiple doses.   They know this because they did long term studies of actual patients to determine the longevity and efficacy of the vaccine over time.   The same process is being carried out now with COVID.   As with polio and measles, they didn't wait years and years while more people died to determine how long it would last in a clinical trial, they got people vaccinated and then tested them.    The real problem you seem to be having is that you haven't been alive long enough to have lived through this - otherwise you would likely remember.  If your grandparents are still around, they might.

Globefunseekers wrote:
I know, it mutates, bla, bla, bla, I'm not going to be coersed to take a product that I can't have any information I can rely on, especially if it comes with potencial, rare or not, consequences some of which are deadly.

As has been said, every vaccine - hell, every MEDICINE - carries the risk of side effects, which are almost universally rare.

Ibuprofen can increase your risk of fatal heart attack or stroke.
Aspirin can cause Reye's syndrome.
Viagra can decrease blood flow to the optic nerve of the eye, causing sudden vision loss.
Robitussin can cause difficulty breathing.
Claritin can cause extreme dizziness or fainting.
Orajel can cause methemoglobinemia, which is potentially fatal.
Gabapentin can cause severe allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions.
Amoxicillin can cause serious and sometimes fatal allergic reactions.
Azithromycin can cause serious (including fatal) allergic and skin reactions, and severe and sometimes fatal hepatotoxicity,

...And on and on it goes.   Ever taken those without reading the safety information sheet?   When is the last time you heard of someone dying from Asprin?   That's because side effects are RARE, in these medications AND with vaccines.  People are allergic to penicillin, for pete's sake!

Joe Tomasone wrote:
NEW MM POLICY ON COVID MISINFORMATION

Model Mayhem is enacting a new policy regarding COVID misinformation.   From this point forward, posts that promote COVID misinformation (using unreliable sources, spreading information that is readily debunked by available and credible scientific information, etc) will be removed, and repeat offenders risk sanctions ranging from warnings to brigging to account removal based on the totality of the circumstances.  Decisions related to the reliability or veracity of the information presented therein are solely the discretion of the moderation team and are final.

While we do encourage legitimate debate, the management has decided that COVID misinformation poses a potential risk to the membership and for that reason this policy is warranted.

THANK YOU!

LightDreams wrote:
As a follow up to some earlier posts regarding Sweden.  Things are going to get even more restrictive there due to their "historically high" Covid levels...

---

"(The Guardian / Reuters)  Sweden to introduce stricter restrictions including work from home mandate"

"Stricter pandemic measures are to be introduced in Sweden in response to a rising number of Covid cases and pressure on hospitals, the prime minister has said.

“The situation has deteriorated, without doubt. The level of infections in Sweden is at a historically high level,” Magdalena Andersson told a news conference, according to Reuters."

a few more details on the measures Sweden is taking...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sweden will impose a curfew on hospitality venues as Covid-19 cases rise

From CNN's Niamh Kennedy
----  https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/omi … index.html

Sweden announced the country will implement an 11 p.m. curfew on hospitality venues, as Swedish Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson warned of a "record high spread" of Covid-19 infections in the country.   

The curfew was announced today and will go into effect starting Wednesday.

From Jan. 12, all cafes, bars and restaurants in the country will have to close at 11 p.m. and a maximum of eight people will be allowed to eat together for seated service. Adults were advised to limit their close contacts indoors by refraining from larger dinners and parties at home, although a specific number of "close contacts" was not given by officials.

Universities and other higher education establishments in the country have been advised by the government to partially carry out remote learning. Practical assessments such as examinations are to be conducted on site with risk reducing measures.   

These follow measures previously announced by the Swedish government on Dec. 23, advising all people who can to work from home. Limits were also placed on indoor public events, requiring people attending indoor events over 20 people to sit in groups of no more than eight, and people attending events of over 500 people must display a Covid-19 vaccination certificate to attend.

Sweden recorded at least 17,376 daily coronavirus cases on Jan. 6, according to the latest data from the public health institute's dashboard.

LightDreams wrote:
Just under 4,000 people complained to Offcom, the UK "Media Watchdog", after a medical expert claimed on air (on ITV) that "90% of Covid patients in hospital had not been vaccinated".

The interesting part is that the investigation discovered that the claim was false BECAUSE the facts actually showed that it was 90% of Covid patients IN THE ICU (Intensive Care Unit) who had not been vaccinated.

I suspect that's not quite the result the complainants were hoping for...


(Source:  The Guardian / Live Covid Updates Newsfeed)

Another factor to consider- the UK has roughly 83% of all people age 12 and up vaccinated.( two shots) and 56% with the booster (third shot)---

In the US the rate is significantly lower--- roughly 62.5% have had 2 shots, and just over 36% have had the third booster shot.

That leaves a larger "un-vaccinated" pool of people to hit the hospitals....

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
Hmmm.  Which thread does this go in?  Republicans telling lies and stirring violence impulses in the crazies or Pandemic since it directly involves Republicans lies, fear mongering and attacks making Fauci the boogieman?

"Fauci has drawn repeated criticism from Paul and others who question the science behind coronavirus vaccines, masks and other public health guidance.

After a heated exchange with Paul at the hearing, Fauci asked to speak uninterrupted and unloaded on the senator.
“Before he was accusing me of being responsible for the death of five — 4 to 5 million people, which is really irresponsible. … What happens when he gets out and accuses me of things that are completely untrue is that all of a sudden, that kindles the crazies out there, and I have life — threats upon my life, harassment of my family and my children with obscene phone calls because people are lying about me. Now, you know, I guess you could say, ‘Well, that’s the way it goes. I can take the hit.’

“Well, it makes a difference because, as some of you may know, just about three or four weeks ago, on December 21st, a person was arrested who was on their way from Sacramento to Washington, D.C., at a speed stop in Iowa. And they asked, the police asked him where he was going, and he was going to Washington, D.C., to kill Dr. Fauci. And they found in his car an AR-15 and multiple magazines of ammunition because he thinks that maybe I’m killing people.

“So I ask myself, why would senator want to do this? So go to Rand Paul website, and you see ‘Fire Dr. Fauci’ with a little box that says ‘Contribute here.’ You can do five dollars. Ten dollars. Twenty dollars. A hundred dollars. So you are making a catastrophic epidemic for your political gain.”"


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 … M455TA4ZJM

This response also walks that same tightrope- is it politics or pandemic--- 

While Sen.Rand Paul {Republican, Kentucky} falsely accuses Dr. Fauci of killing millions, while he does a re-election fundraiser on his website under the banner "Fire Fauci"--- Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear is calling out the National Guard to bolster the health care system in his state...

This is what is going on in Rand Paul's homestate:

Kentucky has mobilized the National Guard to provide support, with 445 members sent to 30 health care facilities, the state announced.

"Omicron continues to burn through the commonwealth, growing at levels we have never seen before. Omicron is significantly more contagious than even the Delta variant," said Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear, noting the earlier variant that spurred a surge of cases in the summer and fall months.

"If it spreads at the rate we are seeing, it is certainly going to fill up our hospitals," he said, and Kentucky is "down to 134 adult ICU beds available."
CNN - https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/11/health/u … index.html

LightDreams wrote:
In a new approach, Quebec has announced that they are going to impose a "Health Contribution Tax" on those that have refused Covid vaccines on non-medical grounds.

Full details aren't yet available but the Premier indicated that it will certainly be more than $50 or $100.

The logic is related to the heavy additional costs that they are costing the healthcare system, the economy and to the rest of the population generally.  People will have a short window to get their first vaccine before the special tax kicks in.

---

This follows Quebec's move a few days ago, to specifically bar people from shopping in liquor stores or pot shops without proof of vaccination.  Seriously!    Daily vaccine appointment requests jumped by 400% after THAT particular announcement...

That's absolutely disgusting and extremely un-Canadian... Anyone who applauds this is a psycho. A penalty for daring to excercise one's body autonomy, first it will be fines then imprisonment for not complying. We're on a slippery slope here

Bunny Bombshell wrote:
That's absolutely disgusting and extremely un-Canadian... Anyone who applauds this is a psycho. A penalty for daring to excercise one's body autonomy, first it will be fines then imprisonment for not complying. We're on a slippery slope here

I posted it as it was a significantly different new twist (i.e. "news") related to Covid restrictions.

However, just to clarify my own personal view...

I don't happen to think that the Quebec Premier's "tax on the unvaxxed" idea is a good one.  Not only do I think it wouldn't stand up legally, I also don't think that legally requiring everyone to get vaccinated is the way to go.  My suspicion is that the Quebec Premier knows it, but is using the "prospect that it is coming" to pile on the pressure to get more people vaccinated.

But, where I do think that we'll disagree, is that I AM comfortable restricting the so-called "optional" activities of those who are not vaccinated IF, and I repeat IF, it allows others (who chose to be fully vaccinated) the benefits of their improved protection.  I.E. To safely mingle at limited optional social events, without the danger of being exposed to those who chose not to be vaccinated.

Otherwise, for safety's sake, we'd have to lockdown everyone, because of the decisions of the few.

So I agree with the way most major Governments around the world have chosen to go, which is the "two tiered" approach.  What the fully vaccinated can do, versus what the unvaccinated can do.  And yes, as a practical matter, that means vaccine passports in some form or another.

In my mind, there's an issue when it comes to personal rights and the right to be protected from others and their actions / decisions.  I also distinguish between "core" needs (buying food and other necessities, seeking medical attention, etc) versus "optional" activities (joining a group of people at a restaurant, attending the movies where there are lots of other people, etc).

Bunny Bombshell wrote:
Anyone who applauds this is a psycho. A penalty for daring to excercise one's body autonomy, first it will be fines then imprisonment for not complying. We're on a slippery slope here

That's hilarious, considering that all of the true "psychos" are on your side of the fence.

"..first it will be fines then imprisonment for not complying. We're on a slippery slope here"

You're talking about anti-abortion laws in anti-vaxxer states, right?

RIGHT?

Focuspuller wrote:

That's hilarious, considering that all of the true "psychos" are on your side of the fence.

"..first it will be fines then imprisonment for not complying. We're on a slippery slope here"

You're talking about anti-abortion laws in anti-vaxxer states, right?

RIGHT?

...not ALL Canadians are psychos...Where's the love?

Keith NYC wrote:

...not ALL Canadians are psychos...Where's the love?

?
I love Canadians. Just like Americans...only better.

Bunny Bombshell wrote:
A penalty for daring to excercise one's body autonomy

You bring up an interesting point:  Where does personal autonomy end and civic responsibility begin?

There are all manner of restrictions to autonomy that we have adopted for the public good that aren't nearly as divisive.    We generally accept that your right to drink intoxicating beverages ends at the wheel of a car because of the danger you pose to others.  Smoking is likewise restricted in many places for the same reason.   If you could be potentially asymptomatic and yet contagious, how does this not align with those examples?  At what point does your responsibility to those around you outweigh your autonomy?

Bunny Bombshell wrote:
That's absolutely disgusting and extremely un-Canadian... Anyone who applauds this is a psycho. A penalty for daring to excercise one's body autonomy, first it will be fines then imprisonment for not complying. We're on a slippery slope here

Freedom to choose is not the same thing as freedom from consequences, particularly if the choice impacts the people around you.

Keith NYC wrote:

...not ALL Canadians are psychos...Where's the love?

Different fence.  Not a fence between the people of nations.  The one between vax and anti vax.

Joe Tomasone wrote:
You bring up an interesting point:  Where does personal autonomy end and civic responsibility begin?

Joe, some folks will never feel any "civic responsibility", they just are not wired that way. The very concept of "civic responsibility" is alien to them.

They see that drink-and-drive rule as "the man" bossing them around "because he can". That anti smoking rule-- just a bunch of do-gooders interfering with his rights...

Making him vax his kids for school- nothing but interference in his rights to do as he sees fit.

Some things will never change.

Focuspuller wrote:

?
I love Canadians. Just like Americans...only better.

I'll admit I was being a little facetious. A Canadian being concerned with a vaccine mandate/tax in Canada, somehow got compared to abortion in the United States. In a pandemic thread. I'll also admit that I haven't opened this thread in months. So there is good chance the groundwork for that comparison was already laid. Eitherway, sorry to interrupt. Carry on.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:

Different fence.  Not a fence between the people of nations.  The one between vax and anti vax.

That makes more sense. I can see that. The abortion/vax fence is where I got lost. Are there more fences? Are unvaccinated people who are pro vaccine on a certain side of a fence? Are the vaccinated anti vax people on another side of the fence?