Forums > Off-Topic Discussion > Question for lawyers amateur photographers.

Photographer

IMAGINERIES

Posts: 2048

New York, New York, US

I live in Manhattan, New York City...When I walk outside wearing mask gloves etc... I often see people not wearing protection
walking around, or wearing a mask around their neck....I guess if the president does not see it necessary...Oh...Well.
My question is, what would happen if I take pictures of these people without asking their permission to do so, and post the resulting pictures on social media? what would happen? These are people  are dangerous to other people and are breaking NYC law.
I wish the TV networks would post "the idiots of the day pictures" every day.....

May 07 20 07:31 am Link

Photographer

Rays Fine Art

Posts: 7504

New York, New York, US

not a lawyer so this is just a guess, but we all have a right of privacy when in a private place.  Not necessarily so when on a public street, so my guess would be that so long as their faces are covered and they are not recognizable, you are probably OK so long as you don't identify them, but if they can somehow be identified (through costume, your naming or otherwise identifying them in the picture or any article that accompanies the picture) then you might be on the hook for at least one very expensive legal action.  My guess again, but I wouldn't think a minor misdemeanor such as this, resulting in little if any demonstrable injury to anyone would obviate their right to privacy and person.
All IMHO as always, of course.

May 07 20 08:29 am Link

Photographer

Bob Helm Photography

Posts: 18903

Cherry Hill, New Jersey, US

Are they? The experts are divided on the benefits of wearing masks and even then if you have separation of at least 6' whatever value they have diminishes.
On my daily walks I never wear or bring a mask and rarely see anyone else wearing one and when I do I think what an idiot as you will never be within 6' of anyone and definitely for more than ten minutes( which is the forgotten part of the social distancing thing).
When I go to the store I do wear one for two reason, neither is because some politician say so. First it the store being private property has the tight to require it for entry without any EO saying they eeed to. Second is it could have some minimal benefit  .
Also who appointed you your brother's keeper? Feed the fear?

May 07 20 08:34 am Link

Photographer

Bob Helm Photography

Posts: 18903

Cherry Hill, New Jersey, US

I think a network having an "idiot of the day" would open them to litigation if there was ANY possibility of the person being identified .Legal would nix it.

May 07 20 08:36 am Link

Photographer

Warren Leimbach

Posts: 3223

Tampa, Florida, US

I am not a lawyer and I am not in New York.



You seem to be trying to publicly shame individual people.  You might be asking for trouble with libel suits.  Ask yourself, can you make your point without shaming the specific person?  Are you illustrating a problem generally or do you need to call out and embarrass this specific individual?  If he's a hypocritical politician who called hand washing a janitorial conspiracy, then by all means make him famous.  For some random schlub, consider anonymizing it - blur out the eyes, for example.

If it is for a commercial advertising, be very careful.  Don't use the photo of the person with a finger up their nose as an implied endorsement for Groucho Marx Booger Shields(tm).  Get a model release.

May 07 20 08:37 am Link

Clothing Designer

Baanthai

Posts: 1218

Bangkok, Bangkok, Thailand

When people walk on a public sidewalk, they no longer have an expectation of privacy and therefore may be photographed without their permission. (That absolutely does not mean you can take “up skirt” photos as that would violate that person’s privacy and local laws.) Usage is the second issue. Obviously commercial usage would require a release. You also can’t use the photo to cast the person in a false light.

But your usage appears non-commercial and you’ll be posting to IG. I don’t see a legal problem with what you intend to do as you’ve described. You are exercising the 1st Amend.

That’s my 2 cents for what it’s worth. There’s lots of great articles for the lay person on this subject. I’m a retired attorney and I’ve practiced many different types of law over my career.

May 07 20 08:42 am Link

Clothing Designer

Baanthai

Posts: 1218

Bangkok, Bangkok, Thailand

Rays Fine Art wrote:
not a lawyer so this is just a guess, but we all have a right of privacy when in a private place.  Not necessarily so when on a public street, so my guess would be that so long as their faces are covered and they are not recognizable, you are probably OK so long as you don't identify them, but if they can somehow be identified (through costume, your naming or otherwise identifying them in the picture or any article that accompanies the picture) then you might be on the hook for at least one very expensive legal action.  My guess again, but I wouldn't think a minor misdemeanor such as this, resulting in little if any demonstrable injury to anyone would obviate their right to privacy and person.
All IMHO as always, of course.

This is not a correct statement of law or analysis. Sorry.

May 07 20 08:45 am Link

Photographer

Shadow Dancer

Posts: 9775

Bellingham, Washington, US

IMAGINERIES wrote:
I often see people not wearing protection

There is nothing extraordinary about this at all.
We all see it all the time.

Covid_19 continues to ramp up, current fatality rate in the US is 6%.
Wearing a mask does not protect you as much as it protects other people from you.

2 days ago I watched a young man walk in to the grocery store with no mask and no gloves. He grabbed the nearest shopping cart by the corners of the handle, just like everybody else does now. He did not stop to wipe the cart and his hands with the available disinfectent wipes.

If his nose itches and he forgets not to touch his face, he could be 6 feet under in 3 weeks. If he is infected he could be passing it along.

You cannot stop stupid, we see so much stupid every day that we consider it normal.

May 07 20 08:48 am Link

Photographer

IMAGINERIES

Posts: 2048

New York, New York, US

Bob Helm Photography wrote:
Are they? The experts are divided on the benefits of wearing masks and even then if you have separation of at least 6' whatever value they have diminishes.
On my daily walks I never wear or bring a mask and rarely see anyone else wearing one and when I do I think what an idiot as you will never be within 6' of anyone and definitely for more than ten minutes( which is the forgotten part of the social distancing thing).
When I go to the store I do wear one for two reason, neither is because some politician say so. First it the store being private property has the tight to require it for entry without any EO saying they eeed to. Second is it could have some minimal benefit  .
Also who appointed you your brother's keeper? Feed the fear?

So far the scientist have admitted that this virus is totally new! it may not even have originated from the far east (China)..It would have been so convenient!... But they have figured out that it is far more contagious that previous viruses and the period of incubation could be 2 weeks before you have signs of being aware that you may have already contaminated douzaines of people, strangers or friends.
You are a happy go lucky man and hope you will find many models willing to cooperate with you!
I am a 77 years old prime target, rather be "safe than sorry". And consider myself lucky that I am not living in a nursing.
home.

May 07 20 09:05 am Link

Photographer

IMAGINERIES

Posts: 2048

New York, New York, US

One last thought....Who claims that "ignorance is/was bliss"?...

May 07 20 09:21 am Link

Photographer

PHP-Photography

Posts: 1390

Vaasa, Ostrobothnia, Finland

IMAGINERIES wrote:
I am a 77 years old prime target, rather be "safe than sorry"

Shouldn't you stay inside ?

May 07 20 10:07 am Link

Photographer

Focuspuller

Posts: 2752

Los Angeles, California, US

deleted. not worth it.

May 07 20 10:24 am Link

Photographer

Brooklyn Bridge Images

Posts: 13200

Brooklyn, New York, US

Street photography is legal and protected by the constitution.

I dont see your badge...Who made you the germ police ?
What might happen is some stressed out person might take your camera and smash it into a zillion pieces
Or worse.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/04/us/michi … index.html
https://www.wpxi.com/news/trending/coro … GOODQWPRQ/
Tense times lots of people are extremely frustrated
DONT POKE THE BEAR !!!
My reccommendation
Be safe, Stay home and mind your own biz

May 07 20 11:56 am Link

Photographer

IMAGINERIES

Posts: 2048

New York, New York, US

PHP-Photography wrote:

Shouldn't you stay inside ?

Tomorrow will be the 50th day of lockdown in New York City. I wear mask and gloves take all the protection I can think of
and keep a very safe distance of every one. I should say that (my wife and I) are very aware that we could present a danger to other people if we get too close even  thought we have no symptoms that we could be carriers of the virus.
This could be a long haul and every one has to comply to the scientists recommendations even when themselves admit that they haven't find a cure and if they do it can take a long long time . And now they suspect that young children may also be affected differently by this virus.. And the virus may have been already present in the eastern part of France in September…
The more they look in to it the more baffle they are!
And it is not in "full bloom" yet in South America, Africa, and India....
The world and specifically the most powerful, richest, with the most Nobel Prices country in the world was caught with it's pants down!! We know more about Mars, the galaxies etc...Than a thing that is the 30th of a human hair in diameter.

May 07 20 11:59 am Link

Photographer

IMAGINERIES

Posts: 2048

New York, New York, US

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
Street photography is legal and protected by the constitution.

I dont see your badge...Who made you the germ police ?
What might happen is some stressed out person might take your camera and smash it into a zillion pieces
Or worse.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/04/us/michi … index.html
https://www.wpxi.com/news/trending/coro … GOODQWPRQ/
Tense times lots of people are extremely frustrated
DONT POKE THE BEAR !!!
My reccommendation
Be safe, Stay home and mind your own biz

I see that you live in Brooklyn, and you don't have any problem seeing people who don't care or I should say you do not worry about getting some of their covid19....I assume you must be my age or older and have no children or grand children
"So no need to poke the bear"....On the positive side social security wont have to worry about so many senior citizen....And  Honeywell will be making masks listening  to the tune of "Live and let Die"

May 07 20 12:51 pm Link

Model

Model MoRina

Posts: 6638

MacMurdo - permanent station of the US, Sector claimed by New Zealand, Antarctica

I think if you are that concerned you should stay home and just worry about yourself.
If you've been out walking around the streets of NYC you shouldn't be visiting your grandchildren anyway, by your own rules.

May 07 20 01:14 pm Link

Photographer

Ken Marcus Studios

Posts: 9421

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Ask first and get a model release signed . . . then take the photos, if you haven't been beaten up first

May 07 20 02:35 pm Link

Photographer

IMAGINERIES

Posts: 2048

New York, New York, US

MoRina wrote:
I think if you are that concerned you should stay home and just worry about yourself.
If you've been out walking around the streets of NYC you shouldn't be visiting your grandchildren anyway, by your own rules.

I have no children and off course no grand children, but I have very close friends and their children and grand children that are like my family in the States...I have not been closed to them in almost 6 weeks

May 07 20 02:40 pm Link

Model

Model MoRina

Posts: 6638

MacMurdo - permanent station of the US, Sector claimed by New Zealand, Antarctica

IMAGINERIES wrote:
I have no children and off course no grand children, but I have very close friends and their children and grand children that are like my family in the States...I have not been closed to them in almost 6 weeks

yeah, nevermind

May 07 20 03:45 pm Link

Photographer

Znude!

Posts: 3317

Baton Rouge, Louisiana, US

I've seen people get attacked and beaten for less. So be careful.

May 07 20 03:58 pm Link

Photographer

rxz

Posts: 1084

Glen Ellyn, Illinois, US

There's your local TV stations.  Mine are always slowing photos submitted by viewers.  Just forward photos with date, time, and location.  If any station uses them they can always blur faces and clothing logos.

May 07 20 05:24 pm Link

Photographer

Brooklyn Bridge Images

Posts: 13200

Brooklyn, New York, US

IMAGINERIES wrote:

I see that you live in Brooklyn, and you don't have any problem seeing people who don't care or I should say you do not worry about getting some of their covid19....I assume you must be my age or older and have no children or grand children
"So no need to poke the bear"....On the positive side social security wont have to worry about so many senior citizen....And  Honeywell will be making masks listening  to the tune of "Live and let Die"

A:No I dont worry about catching a non-airborne ailment when not getting closer than 10ft (Most times more) to people on the street.
B: I am a few years younger than you with no children. I suspect we have different ways of seeing the world. We probably see life and death very differently.

May 07 20 05:30 pm Link

Photographer

LnN Studio

Posts: 303

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US

IMAGINERIES wrote:
So far the scientist have admitted that this virus is totally new! it may not even have originated from the far east (China)..It would have been so convenient!... But they have figured out that it is far more contagious that previous viruses and the period of incubation could be 2 weeks before you have signs of being aware that you may have already contaminated douzaines of people, strangers or friends.
You are a happy go lucky man and hope you will find many models willing to cooperate with you!
I am a 77 years old prime target, rather be "safe than sorry". And consider myself lucky that I am not living in a nursing.
home.

So far the scientists have only been right on two things, it is new and a virus. Every projection has been wrong, every method of dealing with it has been criticized and "Stay at home" was the standard till yesterday when NY Gov pointed out how most of the new hospitalizations were folks who followed "Stay at Home"
No where in my reply did I mention any photography. The first planned model shoot is in end of JULY and that is subject to change.
You are right on one thing I am a happy guy, just a little younger than you and I don't live in NYC
In my county (pop 500,000) 156 of the 193 dead lived( and died ) in Long term care facilities.

May 08 20 08:23 am Link

Artist/Painter

ethasleftthebuilding

Posts: 16685

Key West, Florida, US

Why would you do that?  Are you the self appointed health and safety police?

All of this hysteria has turned everyone into an expert and destroyed liberty for everyone.

Take care of yourself and your family and mind your own business.

May 12 20 07:08 pm Link

Photographer

Eric212Grapher

Posts: 3770

Saint Louis, Missouri, US

IMAGINERIES wrote:
I live in Manhattan, New York City...When I walk outside wearing mask gloves etc... I often see people not wearing protection
walking around, or wearing a mask around their neck....I guess if the president does not see it necessary...Oh...Well.
My question is, what would happen if I take pictures of these people without asking their permission to do so, and post the resulting pictures on social media? what would happen? These are people  are dangerous to other people and are breaking NYC law.
I wish the TV networks would post "the idiots of the day pictures" every day.....

fwiw, Karen, you may have the right to do something, but that does not make it right to do it.
Do you call the police anytime you see someone littering in NYC? Why not, Karen? It is against the law, too.

You asked what would happen, and I demonstrated a small bit of what you will encounter on social media. You will get the ridicule, not the person walking down the the street being photographed by you. You will be mocked. You will get five times the wrath you hoped the others would get.

What is the probability your images of others being seen by them or people they know? Very, very low. What is the probability of your "outing" pics being seen by people you know? Very high. Do you expect your social media "friends" to award you a gold star? Doubtful. All you might accomplish is a spitting war amongst people following your social media page.

May 12 20 08:53 pm Link

Photographer

Brooklyn Bridge Images

Posts: 13200

Brooklyn, New York, US

News article made me think of this thread
https://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2020/05/smash_feat-800x420.jpg
"Man Faces Up to 5 Years in Prison for Smashing News Photographer’s Camera"
https://petapixel.com/2020/05/11/man-fa … rs-camera/

The Walking dead shirt might have been a red flag...lol

May 13 20 03:43 pm Link

Photographer

goofus

Posts: 808

Santa Barbara, California, US

I think if they were shot in public places (although now..it seems, even a store can be considered a public space?????) and you did not comment on them or use some hashtag in a commenting way #masklessidiots  - you should be okay

May 18 20 09:54 am Link

Photographer

FIFTYONE PHOTOGRAPHY

Posts: 6597

Uniontown, Pennsylvania, US

always seek advice to legal questions in the MM forums Kids, it's the best!

roll

May 18 20 02:54 pm Link