Forums > General Industry > Photographers who pay or trade for OnlyFans

Model

Kayla_Ann

Posts: 73

Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US

Eric212Grapher wrote:
what is obvious to you and I is sometimes not so to others. Hence the note stating permission was granted.  This avoids some photographers getting bent out of shape seeing the model edit the images.

Yea... but if photographers are getting bent out of shape over assumptions they are making about my relationships with OTHER photographers... That isn't really MY problem at all.

If photographers are about to assume something like that and judge me in a negative light about it without proof, I'd rather not find out what other judgements those photographers would hold against me for other things without just cause.

I know your suggestion was made with good intention, but it just seem ridiculous to me that the level of trust would be so low to warrant that. It also just kind of seems wrong--everything is a negotiation--putting that something was done "with the permission of the photographer" makes it sound like the photographer is the only one involved with decision-making power--and all my shoots are negotiations in which I expect equal respect.

Oct 20 20 01:52 pm Link

Photographer

LA StarShooter

Posts: 2704

Los Angeles, California, US

Kayla_Ann wrote:
Yea... but if photographers are getting bent out of shape over assumptions they are making about my relationships with OTHER photographers... That isn't really MY problem at all.

If photographers are about to assume something like that and judge me in a negative light about it without proof, I'd rather not find out what other judgements those photographers would hold against me for other things without just cause.

I know your suggestion was made with good intention, but it just seem ridiculous to me that the level of trust would be so low to warrant that. It also just kind of seems wrong--everything is a negotiation--putting that something was done "with the permission of the photographer" makes it sound like the photographer is the only one involved with decision-making power--and all my shoots are negotiations in which I expect equal respect.

Copyright is something that requires permission,which is sometimes difficult a concept for people to understand, particularly people who use or take an image without a license to do so. }

Here's a copyright definition: "Copyright in photography means that you own an image you created. The law says you created that image as soon as the shutter is released.

The photographer who pushed the button owns the copyright. A photographer will own that copyright throughout their life and 70 years afterwards.

Whether it’s photography on your hard drive, online portfolio, or a post on your Instagram feed, with this ownership, you have exclusive rights to your image according to the Copyright Law of the United States of America. This includes:

    Reproducing your photography
    Preparing derivative works based on your photography
    Distributing copies of your photography to the public (by sale, rental, lease, or lending.  . ."

Now for sources: https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#106   And you can see that the photographer has control of the image.  It's important to have a release. . .for many types of projects, for commercial projects, etc. However, your idea about the image, that the image maker somehow is not the only one with decision-making power is not why we have copyright law. It's not shared unless the image maker loses their mind. or licenses it to another party . .

Oct 20 20 03:24 pm Link

Model

Kayla_Ann

Posts: 73

Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US

LA StarShooter wrote:
Copyright is something that requires permission,which is sometimes difficult a concept for people to understand, particularly people who use or take an image without a license to do so. }

Here's a copyright definition: "Copyright in photography means that you own an image you created. The law says you created that image as soon as the shutter is released.

The photographer who pushed the button owns the copyright. A photographer will own that copyright throughout their life and 70 years afterwards.

Whether it’s photography on your hard drive, online portfolio, or a post on your Instagram feed, with this ownership, you have exclusive rights to your image according to the Copyright Law of the United States of America. This includes:

    Reproducing your photography
    Preparing derivative works based on your photography
    Distributing copies of your photography to the public (by sale, rental, lease, or lending.  . ."

Now for sources: https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#106   And you can see that the photographer has control of the image.  It's important to have a release. . .for many types of projects, for commercial projects, etc. However, your idea about the image, that the image maker somehow is not the only one with decision-making power is not why we have copyright law. It's not shared unless the image maker loses their mind. or licenses it to another party . .

I don't understand what you saw from my comments that made you think I needed to be educated on copyright law...

Saying I don't like the connotation of a statement and it seems unnecessary doesn't = that I didn't have an agreement from the photographers that I work with to do exactly what I am doing with the images they took of me. I don't edit work without an agreement... obviously.

My comment about decision making power was about negotiations that occur BEFORE the shoot... since I don't participate in a photoshoot unless we can create an agreement for the images that we are both happy with BEFORE any photos are taken.

My mind is a little bit blown at that conclusion you jumped to about me.

I actually have a lot of experience with copyrights as the person actually taking images as well.

Oct 20 20 03:57 pm Link

Model

Kayla_Ann

Posts: 73

Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US

I'm not going to be checking the forums anymore.

If any photographers would like to work with me, shoot me a message directly.

Oct 20 20 04:33 pm Link

Admin

Model Mayhem Edu

Posts: 1146

Los Angeles, California, US

Photographers complain about there being a Female Models Only forum and that no models post in the regular forums anymore. This thread is yet another example of why.

Oct 20 20 04:40 pm Link

Photographer

LA StarShooter

Posts: 2704

Los Angeles, California, US

Model Mayhem Edu wrote:
Photographers complain about there being a Female Models Only forum and that no models post in the regular forums anymore. This thread is yet another example of why.

Some photographers complain. . .

Oct 20 20 07:17 pm Link

Photographer

Camera Buff

Posts: 923

Maryborough, Queensland, Australia

LA StarShooter wrote:
Some photographers complain. . .

..... while others lecture?

Oct 20 20 07:26 pm Link

Photographer

LA StarShooter

Posts: 2704

Los Angeles, California, US

Camera Buff wrote:

..... while others lecture?

You should write to her.

Oct 20 20 07:35 pm Link

Artist/Painter

Hunter GWPB

Posts: 6986

King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, US

Kayla_Ann wrote:
I'm not going to be checking the forums anymore.

<snip>

That would be a mistake and be a shame.  Not everybody is always pleasant and we don't always communicate well or understand well.  Sometimes we down right fight.  Sometimes feelings are hurt.  Sorry.  But we are constrained by the rules so it never gets too ugly. 

You get to set people straight, but you have to be able to take it.   Sometimes you have to let comments go or compartmentalize.

You should participate.

There are things to learn here and things to teach.

Oct 22 20 03:20 pm Link

Photographer

Karen Engel Photography

Posts: 110

Manteca, California, US

Kayla_Ann wrote:
I obviously credit myself for my own work. I'm not going to do post-production work and not credit myself for the work. If there is attribution given to a photo, I point out who did what with the image--so I really don't understand photographers who say things like "other people doing post production on my images is going to reflect back poorly on me."

Even though you may be "gone" - with attribution being a disclaimer for a photographer "I did NOT do the post work" - if the resultant 3rd party PP image looks bad, and is posted publicly with their name on it - it's not a good reflection - so I see their point.

I don't use that particular phrase "other people doing post production on my images is going to reflect back poorly on me."
I simply don't give permission to edit in the first place - unless the retoucher is our equal in skill or better - or the paying client provides their own.  There are tons of really good retouchers out there - but like photography, owning the gear (software) doesn't make everyone a good retoucher.  There are countless millions of bad ones.

Oct 24 20 02:02 pm Link

Photographer

WRJR Photography

Posts: 1

Chicago, Illinois, US

What action can be taken if a TPF model has posted on OnlyFans without my consent?

Oct 26 20 11:30 am Link

Model

Notavailableforhire

Posts: 6563

MacMurdo - permanent station of the US, Sector claimed by New Zealand, Antarctica

WRJR Photography wrote:
What action can be taken if a TPF model has posted on OnlyFans without my consent?

It would depend on your agreement. Also, it would depend on if she is selling the pictures or just using the pics to promote herself. Some models have free feeds where they post pics but then they have some posts that followers have to pay for.

If someone is posting your work without permission, you can ask them to take it down. If they don't, you can initiate a DMCA takedown request.

Oct 26 20 11:36 am Link

Model

Kayla_Ann

Posts: 73

Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
That would be a mistake and be a shame.  Not everybody is always pleasant and we don't always communicate well or understand well.  Sometimes we down right fight.  Sometimes feelings are hurt.  Sorry.  But we are constrained by the rules so it never gets too ugly. 

You get to set people straight, but you have to be able to take it.   Sometimes you have to let comments go or compartmentalize.

You should participate.

There are things to learn here and things to teach.

Telling anyone they "should" do anything that has been a frequent waste of their time and has caused them to be distracted from work that is actually productive is actually pretty toxic...

I don't care to be insulted and disrespected.

I don't think people acting childish and insulting each other should be something that models or ANYONE should just accept.

Oct 26 20 12:15 pm Link

Model

Kayla_Ann

Posts: 73

Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US

WRJR Photography wrote:
What action can be taken if a TPF model has posted on OnlyFans without my consent?

You can google copyright laws to see all of your options. Generally, you want to threaten legal action.

Oct 26 20 12:18 pm Link

Photographer

Camera Buff

Posts: 923

Maryborough, Queensland, Australia

WRJR Photography wrote:
What action can be taken if a TPF model has posted on OnlyFans without my consent?

MoRina wrote:
If someone is posting your work without permission, you can ask them to take it down. If they don't, you can initiate a DMCA takedown request.

IMO, MoRina's suggestion is the best course of action to take first up.

Start by politely telling the model what you want to see happen with the images, no need to rush in with threats, legal or otherwise.

If the model is using image(s) you've given them as compensation for their modelling in a TFP collaboration with you, and they've signed a TFP agreement that clearly outlines they are in breach of the Usage Rights, then I can understand your concern.

However, if nothing has been signed/agreed, why not be kind and generous and allow your model to post/use the image(s) they have kindly helped you to create.

Oct 27 20 12:43 am Link

Photographer

BC Vorderbrug

Posts: 6

Valrico, Florida, US

It seems to me if you want that much control over editing and posting decisions on OF, learn to self-shoot. I follow several girls who do and their work is brilliant, you would never know that a photographer didn't take it. Why deal with all this squabbling and legal self-flagellation just nut up and do it yourselves.  No copyright issues, no content-sharing arrangements, no hurt feelings, just increase your skillset.

Nov 23 20 08:58 pm Link

Photographer

FIFTYONE PHOTOGRAPHY

Posts: 6597

Uniontown, Pennsylvania, US

BC Vorderbrug wrote:
It seems to me if you want that much control over editing and posting decisions on OF, learn to self-shoot.

Fixed that for Ya.

Nov 24 20 05:16 am Link

Photographer

FIFTYONE PHOTOGRAPHY

Posts: 6597

Uniontown, Pennsylvania, US

WRJR Photography wrote:
What action can be taken if a TPF model has posted on OnlyFans without my consent?

Obviously it would depend on what type of agreement within the TF agreement You have with the Model.

Firstly, I'd ask the Model in a non-threatening way that they remove the image.

if that doesn't work

I believe OnlyFans is hosted in the UK,  DCMA is U.S. law so that route may not work but I'm sure they have a way of sorting issues, ask them directly.

Nov 24 20 08:21 am Link

Photographer

Noah Russell

Posts: 609

Seattle, Washington, US

I think this thread has gotten way off topic. To the Ops question.

I shoot trade for content, which means we both get content we want out of the deal.  We are both free to sell the content.

I trade in finished images and videos and would be wary of giving out raw files for one reason. I did a shoot for a pay site  once and let the model do post production. She had the wrong white balance set so all of the images looked orange. I can't even use the images as a tear sheet because they don't accurately reflect the work I do. At least I was paid. It still bothers me that the images were not what they could have been if I had handled the raw conversion myself.

I would need to see proof that the model is capable of handling raw files before handing them over. It's very easy for me to have the model select the images they want and then handle the raw conversion in lightroom  myself. In the end they get high resolution jpg files of whatever files they picked. If they wanted to pick all of them I would be ok with that, but as a practical matter selecting only the best saves us both time.

The videos I shoot are also in raw and it would be impractical to hand them over due to the sheer size of the files. The camera records to a  1 terabyte ssd and it fills up quick. Once again, I could handle the raw conversion and give unedited footage in a more compressed format. But I go one step further and handle editing myself.

I am curious what editing you are doing that requires raw files. I accidentally set my camera to jpg once for an entire shoot and I didn't have any problems with the files. Unless you need to make exposure adjustments I see no benefit to raw files.

Cheers,
Noah

Nov 27 20 12:03 am Link

Photographer

Midnight Dreams Imaging

Posts: 5

Gurnee, Illinois, US

In the Chicago area and have done both. Paid for models and done TFP both have then used them for subscription type sites.  I enjoy the creative outlet and if it allows someone to make some $$ more power to them.  I have ideas for shoots they have ideas as well so why not work together 💁🏻‍♂️?  If you are ever in Chicago would love to see what we can come up with.

Just my $.02

Nov 30 20 07:34 am Link

Photographer

Sal W Hanna

Posts: 6683

Huntington Beach, California, US

I offer both Trade and Paid shoots for OF content.

Dec 08 20 11:10 pm Link

Photographer

John Jebbia

Posts: 28562

Phoenix, Arizona, US

WRJR Photography wrote:
What action can be taken if a TPF model has posted on OnlyFans without my consent?

While photographers may have a legal leg to stand on regarding this, this simply isn't a battle I want to have with the models I work with. As far as I'm concerned any content I give to the model, she's free to do with as she pleases. Based on my experience, trying to police this sort of thing just causes additional unnecessary stress.

Dec 09 20 06:44 am Link

Clothing Designer

veypurr

Posts: 422

Albuquerque, New Mexico, US

John Jebbia  wrote:
While photographers may have a legal leg to stand on regarding this, this simply isn't a battle I want to have with the models I work with. As far as I'm concerned any content I give to the model, she's free to do with as she pleases. Based on my experience, trying to police this sort of thing just causes additional unnecessary stress.

I think you are correct

Dec 09 20 07:53 pm Link

Photographer

Eye of the World

Posts: 1384

Corvallis, Oregon, US

MoRina wrote:

It would depend on your agreement. Also, it would depend on if she is selling the pictures or just using the pics to promote herself. Some models have free feeds where they post pics but then they have some posts that followers have to pay for.

If someone is posting your work without permission, you can ask them to take it down. If they don't, you can initiate a DMCA takedown request.

The problem with this is that you first have to discover the images are being used outside your agreement, and if they are only posted on the subscription side you have to subscribe first to see if anything is there. And even if you don’t find any usage, the operative word could be “yet”, meaning the subscription would have to be renewed if the intent was to continue to watch for unauthorized use that is posted anytime in the future. Believe it or not, some models (like some photographers) do not honor their agreements. And sites such as OF that can hide images behind a pay wall make that easier.

Dec 13 20 04:40 pm Link

Photographer

kgsphoto

Posts: 208

Saint Louis, Missouri, US

Kayla_Ann wrote:
Trying to create a directory of photographers who have OnlyFans that will either do trade shoots for all RAW images, or who pay models for content. This directory is mainly for my purposes, but I know other women who occasionally enjoy modeling but do not have an MM account that I may be sharing this information with as well to help them out.

So if you're a photographer with an OF, give a shoutout.

(Note--I'm looking for photographers that shoot female presenting models specifically.)

Dec 25 20 08:19 am Link

Photographer

Robert Lynch

Posts: 2547

Bowie, Maryland, US

BC Vorderbrug wrote:
I follow several girls who do and their work is brilliant, you would never know that a photographer didn't take it.

This statement goes wrong in so many different ways.

Dec 25 20 12:19 pm Link

Photographer

Eros Fine Art Photo

Posts: 3097

Torrance, California, US

Aaron Pawlak wrote:

Photographers that do not pay are not photographers.

Hmmmm.  Let me see...

I own a camera.

I take photos with it.

I've been published several times for some of my commercial work.

I've been hired for shoots.

I've done a lot of trade shoots with models here.

And I don't pay most models (unless I REALLY like their look and they're already pretty established).

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Webster's dictionary would define me as a photographer.   lol

Dec 31 20 02:59 am Link

Photographer

PhotoMike

Posts: 18

Gurnee, Illinois, US

I don't have an OF page but I am willing to trade RAW images or processed images for shoots and will consider other compensation.

I am based in the greater Chicago area.

Jan 19 21 11:05 am Link

Photographer

Ken Marcus Studios

Posts: 9358

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Aaron Pawlak wrote:
Photographers that do not pay are not photographers.

Interesting Concept . . .

In the last 25 years, I've taken pictures of over 400 models . . . but I'm not a photographer

I've never paid any of those models . . .  but I'm not a photographer

I guess the 40+ layouts that have been published of those models prove that I'm really not a photographer

Jan 19 21 03:53 pm Link

Photographer

KII Art Photos

Posts: 6

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US

I dont currently have OF - but have done sessions where the model used photos for their page.

I also pay models so kinda fall into both groups

Jan 20 21 06:55 am Link

Photographer

Select Model Studios

Posts: 818

Tempe, Arizona, US

I do not have an Onlyfans. I considered starting one. And I'm not at all against paying a model for the content needed for my Onlyfans. I just don't know if I'd make enough in the end to see any profit. What does annoy me is when a model wants to be paid for a shoot, then takes those photos and puts them on her onlyfans page. That is double dipping. Frankly, since onlyfans started to become a thing. Unless it's for something outside portfolio work. I won't even message a model about a paid shoot.. Not that I pay a lot of models anyways. I rarely shoot nudes or lingerie. I think it's wrong for them to charge, then use the images somebody else worked hard on,  to profit yourself even more. At the very least, give them a cut back. I don't know. Just annoys me.

I am willing to do trade shoots with models who want or need content for their onlyfans. If no money changes hands, I don't really care what they do with the images. If they can make money off our work. Good for them! I don't know about handing over raw files though. After all a trade shoot is about both parties benefiting from the session. And while some models can retouch and do it well.. many can not. And if they mess up the images, that's my name attracted to it. So the easy policy is just say no to everyone. Unless I'm being paid. Then I'm more open to it, just so I'm not tagged or credited if the image ends up looking bad.

Mar 23 21 01:19 am Link

Photographer

Chou Chiang Photography

Posts: 5

Berlin, Berlin, Germany

Photographer with an Onlyfans page. Interested in female models to shoot for trade

Recent joinee into the OF world, so I don't have many images to showcase as of now.

Based in Mumbai / India

Apr 21 21 11:34 pm Link

Photographer

David A Reichel

Posts: 19

San Diego, California, US

I do not have an Onlyfans account and I do shoot content with models for their OF account.  I pay the models my typical rate.

Apr 22 21 08:38 am Link

Photographer

david durkee

Posts: 101

Long Beach, California, US

I don't have an OF account but have been approached by a few models to trade work. I'll do trades with someone I really want in my book, but usually pay all my models anyway. I HAVE had models looking for OF content that asked me to *pay them* to create that content though... Giving up my RAW (or any format) files with the understanding that the model will have it retouched by someone else with my name attached? Absolutely not. There are some very good retouchers out there, there are also some that are jaw-droppingly bad. If the model is doing the retouch as they don't want what I try and offer - a true representation of her, or just because they don't like the way that I don't put filters on stuff... Well, find someone else that does. Retouching is a sore spot with me. Shoot it right (even though it takes a lot of attention and detailed work), and you don't need to spend time fixing it in post. I worked back in the days of 4x5 film and although it could be retouched, the idea was to create a perfect chrome to hand to the client.

I am also available to create images for OF/patreon/etc.

Sometimes I wish we could go back to shooting photos with a difficult process to retouch.

May 07 21 12:35 pm Link

Photographer

Underwater_Nomad

Posts: 1

Chattanooga, Tennessee, US

I hire models for work pretty regularly

Jun 13 22 04:47 pm Link

Photographer

JSouthworth

Posts: 410

Kingston upon Hull, England, United Kingdom

From a marketing perspective, OnlyFans is a flawed concept because it relies on people paying to view images, when they have no idea what they're going to be getting for their money.

Jun 14 22 01:58 am Link

Photographer

LA StarShooter

Posts: 2704

Los Angeles, California, US

PHP-Photography wrote:

That does not mean his is right. TIFF is not raw format.
Maybe he is talking about DNG.

Nikon "raw" files, the NEF, are tiff-based and use a standard tiff header. Tiff is a format associated with . . .Adobe who bought the company that created Tiff-which was the brilliant Aldus. Camera Manufacturers came up with their own tiff-based versions with their own tiff header, which they subsequently dubbed "The Raw" and the software to open the Tiff-based files. Adobe always declared you need a software like its, to open Tiff files. Due to working on beauty photos I open in NX studio first then export the tiff file to Adobe Camera Raw. I never open a Nef file in Camera Raw as Adobe cannot read all the colour information properly so, since Beauty is so different from shorting sports and weddings, as with beauty it is often just one photo from a shoot.  . . that is sought.
   

The advantages of Tiff, to quote Adobe: " Predominantly lossless compression means TIFF files retain the original image’s detail and color depth — perfect for high-quality professional photos." So all camera manufacturers have done is taken the Aldus created "Tiff" and bent it to their needs.

I don't expect you to know this stuff. Beauty photography and related retouchings closest cousin is table shot photography also known as product photography and unless you dive deeply in those fields I think you have little need to understand such stuff there's a thing called "Raw" and its not a big crime that  you don't know it is a tiff-based file that runs around Adobe's Tiff to achieve the camera manufacturer's aims. . .

Jun 14 22 02:29 am Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 44692

Salinas, California, US

JSouthworth wrote:
From a marketing perspective, OnlyFans is a flawed concept because it relies on people paying to view images, when they have no idea what they're going to be getting for their money.

I agree!  It wont last.  Something else will come along that is better.

Jun 14 22 12:37 pm Link

Photographer

JSouthworth

Posts: 410

Kingston upon Hull, England, United Kingdom

Patrick Walberg wrote:

I agree!  It wont last.  Something else will come along that is better.

OnlyFans is the nearest digital equivalent to the cottage industry that existed in the 50s, 60s and 70s selling prints, slides and 8mm films by mail order. Quite often, the buyers would get softer material than they were expecting. They couldn't really go to the police or trading standards complaining that they didn't get something that was illegal by the standards of the day.

Jun 22 22 06:53 am Link