Forums > Off-Topic Discussion > Politics - News, Arguments & Suggested Solutions

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LightDreams

Posts: 2871

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

As per one of the moderator's suggestion, here's a forum thread that's dedicated to political news, issues and discussions that aren't really appropriate under other, more specific, forum threads. Hopefully we'll see some positive discussions along the way.

Keep in mind the latest rules as set by the moderators:

Joe Tomasone wrote:
The OT rules against political threads are being revised.   

Basically, “be civil and do not engage in personal attacks” will be the prevailing rule as opposed to just stopping argumentative topics.   Argue all you like, but be nice about it.   If you have to walk away from a thread for 10 minutes (or forever) to contain yourself, that’s what you likely should do.

Plus I'm sure we'll hear more from the moderators, as needed.

"Be Civil and Do Not Engage in Personal Attacks"

"Argue all you like, but be nice about it"

Go to it!

Oct 23 20 01:12 pm Link

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LightDreams

Posts: 2871

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

CNN reports that over 55 million people watched the final Trump / Biden debate.

Their "flash poll" results shows that 53% think that Biden won, while 39% believe that Trump won.  As those numbers sound suspiciously similar to the popular vote polling, I'd suggest that it might just mean that people viewed it through their own previous political leanings and there really wasn't any significant change as a result of the debate.

CNN also put together a surprisingly long fact checking article, calling out statements made by both candidates, as the debate progressed:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/22/politics … index.html

Oct 23 20 01:31 pm Link

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Focuspuller

Posts: 1147

Los Angeles, California, US

LightDreams wrote:
CNN reports that over 55 million people watched the final Trump / Biden debate.

Their "flash poll" results shows that 53% think that Biden won, while 39% believe that Trump won.  As those numbers sound suspiciously similar to the popular vote polling, I'd suggest that it might just mean that people viewed it through their own previous political leanings and there really wasn't any significant change as a result of the debate.

CNN also put together a surprisingly long fact checking article, calling out statements made by both candidates, as the debate progressed:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/22/politics … index.html

The only poll that matters happens in 11 days. Remember 2016.

MEANWHILE, America's Drunk Uncle courts impeachable crimes AGAIN:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/202 … ip-vpx.cnn

This damaged brain learns NOTHING. Should be donated to pseudo-science.

Oct 23 20 01:57 pm Link

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LightDreams

Posts: 2871

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Focuspuller wrote:
[The only poll that matters happens in 11 days. Remember 2016.

Absolutely.  The differences between both what people told pollsters in 2016 and the reality, plus the differences between the electoral college and the popular vote...

Focuspuller wrote:
This damaged brain learns NOTHING. Should be donated to pseudo-science.

Don't be shy Focuspuller, tell us how you really feel.  Hah!

Oct 23 20 02:18 pm Link

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LightDreams

Posts: 2871

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

I do worry about how the debate will affect Pennsylvania though.  Polls had Biden up by 10 points in that critical state, right before the debate.

I don't believe that Trump's suggestions that Biden was on the take from Russia, will have nave any serious impact (especially after today's FBI / WSJ news updates that effectively destroyed Trump's latest Ukraine "evidence" claims).

However, I DO wonder how the oil issue will play in Pennsylvania.  Even though Biden carefully qualified it with long dates for the energy transition and the new energy jobs.  But still, it might just have a significant voting impact in Pennsylvania(?).

Oct 23 20 02:32 pm Link

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rfordphotos

Posts: 8396

Antioch, California, US

attempting to move this from the Covid thread to the political thread.....

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
BLUE SHIRT.

if thats your view on the Hunter/Biden scandal I'd like to hear your notes on the fake news Trump/Russian collusion nonsense.

Focuspuller wrote:
Uh oh! SOMEONE hasn't read the Mueller Report.

____IF_____ Trump loses.

What do you suppose the DOJ---one not run by Trump's toady Burr---- will do AFTER Trump loses his immunity?

Will they act on the 10 instances of obstruction detailed in the Mueller report?

as much as I would like to see Trump in handcuffs (oh please!) I seriously doubt the political animals in DC will follow thru (politicians are generally spineless, and live in glass houses, etc etc)

By tradition-Trump will most likely avoid prosecution on his obstruction charges...

But-- (my prediction) His toadies wont fare so well.

I would not be surprised to see Burr prosecuted. I would not be surprised to see Pompeo prosecuted.

I will look forward to the charges I expect against little Donnie Jr, Eric and their sister Ivanka (and particularly  her slime ball husband Jared Kushner)--- their profiting from their positions is well known---and easily proven.

Without Burr running interference- I would expect the District Court for the Southern District of New York to begin piling on charges for tax evasion, fraud etc etc,

I would expect the State of New York courts will also have a field day filing against Trump---- without his immunity toooooo much has come to light for him to avoid prosecution.

As for his 400+million in personal debt--- normally he would "re-finance" but given the visibility of his multiple scams---- I think he is going to have a hell of a time finding a bank to loan him a nickle. Deutsche Bank has so many investigations going on now regarding Trump and his various frauds --- litigation HAS to be costing them more than they make loaning him money....

_____IF______ Trump loses--- 2021 could be one shitty year for Putin's pal.

Oct 23 20 02:40 pm Link

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LightDreams

Posts: 2871

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

rfordphotos wrote:
What do you suppose the DOJ---one not run by Trump's toady Burr---- will do AFTER Trump loses his immunity?

Will they act on the 10 instances of obstruction detailed in the Mueller report?

as much as I would like to see Trump in handcuffs (oh please!) I seriously doubt the political animals in DC will follow thru (politicians are generally spineless, and live in glass houses, etc etc)

By tradition-Trump will most likely avoid prosecution on his obstruction charges...

I think I'll make a somewhat similar prediction...

I suspect that, Federally, they'll leave Trump be.  For the same reasons that Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon.  It was originally thought to be a political act, but Ford explained that he felt that it was the best way to just bury the whole mess that the country had gone through and try to start fresh.   An attempt to just take Trump out of the news and make him irrelevant to the future (not that he won't do everything in his power to try and remain as the center of attention!).

But I will predict that the State of New York's investigations will continue. And will get VERY messy for Trump.  Not many people will remember this, but Mueller deliberately referred a number of ongoing investigations over to New York, where they would be much more insulated from Federal DOJ influence and decision making.

Trump's been "joking" lately about having to leave the country.  Similar to his other "jokes", he's always been pretty transparent about what he's really thinking.   And I suspect those "what if" possibilities have at least been on his mind.  Not his first choice, but just in case...
.

Oct 23 20 02:55 pm Link

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rfordphotos

Posts: 8396

Antioch, California, US

LightDreams wrote:
I do worry about how the debate will affect Pennsylvania though.  Polls had Biden up by 10 points in that critical state, right before the debate.
[...]

consensus seems to be that the debate changed no one's mind. Supporters remained supporters, detractors remained detractors. The undecided have to be brain dead (smile)

After 2016, I have virtually zero faith in the polls.

The one Friday poll listed on Real ClearPolitics for Pennsylvania had Biden at +7 points..., the Pennsylvania polls for Wednesday showed Biden up +7, +5, +8, +10
----  https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll … s_general/

Trump's lead (as well as Biden's) in Friday polling in Florida, Arizona and Georgia are all narrow (within the margin of error) making it look like those states may still be in play. Trump holds more significant leads in Montana, Utah and West Virginia. Biden's lead in Michigan and Wisconsin still seems relatively strong.

But as has been said---- THE ONLY poll that matters is November 3

Oct 23 20 03:23 pm Link

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rfordphotos

Posts: 8396

Antioch, California, US

If you really want to get into the weeds on polling--- these two live and die polling... Nate Silver and Galen Druke (FiveThirtyEight) in a ~hour long podcast today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAkoWbUcquA

Oct 23 20 03:54 pm Link

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Hunter GWPB

Posts: 6481

King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, US

LightDreams wrote:
I do worry about how the debate will affect Pennsylvania though.  Polls had Biden up by 10 points in that critical state, right before the debate.
[...]
However, I DO wonder how the oil issue will play in Pennsylvania.  Even though Biden carefully qualified it with long dates for the energy transition and the new energy jobs.  But still, it might just have a significant voting impact in Pennsylvania(?).

I know a few people that have been laid off from jobs that are supported by the fracking industry.  A major refinery was shut down due to a fire a while back.  There are pipelines being built around the state,  Nothing Biden said changes that.  The price of natural gas right now doesn't encourage many new wells. 

Coal ain't coming back.

Despite the energy business in PA, there are solar cells appearing on people's roofs and out in the fields.  Pennsylvania is well represented by hunters, people who fish, hikers, canoeists, and all manner of outdoor enthusiasts.  It is a beautiful state that has been marred by coal.  Plenty of people do not like the scars caused by gassiness.  Fracking is less in the news, but I think the anger is still simmering the water in people's minds. 

The rural part of the state is different from where I live and though they may like trump, they also like the woods and fields.  That aren't stupid. 

The cities and suburban area of Philly have already taken republicans to the wood shed in every election since 2016.  A trump like gubernatorial candidate was kicked to the curb.  All but one of Philly's PA ring counties kicked republican leadership to the curb.  Places that were reliably red before.  There are many signs that trump was not popular before the trump-19 flu

We will see.

Oct 23 20 04:52 pm Link

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rfordphotos

Posts: 8396

Antioch, California, US

here is just ONE reason this veteran voted for Biden----

Lies from the coward who was on the golf course while John McCain was being tortured in a N.Vietnamese prison....
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spin, hyperbole and deception: How Trump claimed credit for an Obama veterans achievement

President Trump has told mistruths about the 2014 VA Choice Act more than 156 times, seeking to deny the contributions of rivals including Barack Obama and John McCain.
----  https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics … rc404=true

The first time President Trump claimed false credit for the Veterans Access, Choice and Accountability Act — which President Barack Obama signed into law in 2014 — was on June 6, 2018. That day, as Trump signed the Mission Act, a modest update to the bipartisan VA Choice legislation, he seemed to conflate the two.

“So it’s now my great honor to sign the VA Mission Act, or as we all know it, the Choice Act, and to make Veterans Choice the permanent law of our great country,” the president said, standing in the Rose Garden. “And nobody deserves it more than our veterans.”

In the coming weeks, Trump began systematically erasing from the legislation’s history not just Obama but also the late senator John McCain (R-Ariz.), who not only co-sponsored the VA Choice Act but also was so instrumental in passing the Mission Act that he is one of three senators for whom the act is officially named.

That didn’t stop Trump from falsely claiming — as he did at a tank factory in Lima, Ohio, in March 2019 — that McCain, his frequent political rival, failed to make any progress on the VA Choice Act.

“McCain didn’t get the job done for our great vets and the VA, and they knew it,” Trump said.

More than two years after signing the Mission Act, which made limited changes to the much broader Obama veterans law, Trump has repeated some version of his VA Choice Act mistruth more than 156 times, according to an analysis by The Washington Post’s Fact Checker, eventually claiming full credit for the bill codified by his predecessor.

“We’ve got Choice approved,” Trump told a Fox-affiliate reporter in Michigan in January. “I mean, nobody thought we could possibly get Choice approved. We have Veterans Choice approved.”

[...]

“I disagree with John McCain on the way he handled the vets, because I said, ‘You got to get to Choice,’ ” Trump said as he departed for Marine One in May 2019. “He was never able to get Choice. I got Choice.”

His rhetoric also had the benefit of minimizing the role of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), a co-sponsor of VA Choice with McCain and a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2016 and 2020.

Oct 23 20 06:44 pm Link

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Focuspuller

Posts: 1147

Los Angeles, California, US

rfordphotos wrote:
here is just ONE reason this veteran voted for Biden----

Lies from the coward who was on the golf course while John McCain was being tortured in a N.Vietnamese prison....]

And don't forget, he likes "people who weren't captured." But at least give him credit for suffering through 18 holes of golf on those bone spurs, and fighting his personal Viet Nam dodging STD's in the deadly  war zone of Studio 54. "It is my personal Vietnam. I feel like a great and very brave soldier."

What a  Patriot.

Oct 24 20 12:33 pm Link

Artist/Painter

Hunter GWPB

Posts: 6481

King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, US

"A vote for a second Trump term is a vote for an America in decline and an American democracy in danger."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions … story.html

Oct 25 20 05:21 am Link

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Sablesword

Posts: 352

Gurnee, Illinois, US

If we're to have political threads here on MM, I'd prefer to keep them in a "Politics" forum or subforum, much as critiques are kept in their own forum.

Oct 25 20 02:14 pm Link

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Focuspuller

Posts: 1147

Los Angeles, California, US

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
"A vote for a second Trump term is a vote for an America in decline and an American democracy in danger."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions … story.html

Actually, that was true for the vote for the first term. Voting for a SECOND term means Americans do not believe in "American values" anymore, in which case it would be better to let more advanced countries take up the cause.

Oct 25 20 05:35 pm Link

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Tony From Syracuse

Posts: 2397

Syracuse, New York, US

I am excited about whats going to happen, but mostly I want it to be over one way or the other. because once a president has been elected its like you can go back to your life and not be caught up in the politics of it all.

no matter who was elected the dynamics my life never changed. still got to go to work. ugh, so ready for it to be over!

Oct 25 20 05:47 pm Link

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LightDreams

Posts: 2871

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Deleted...

I had originally posted about a strange boast Trump made at a rally today, about winning the Nobel prize twice.  However, it turns out that he did retract it (at the same rally) and there actually was a reasonably plausible explanation for his confusion at the time.  So I'll just leave it as a mistake and delete the post (with this explanation for those who had already read the original post).

Oct 25 20 07:44 pm Link

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rfordphotos

Posts: 8396

Antioch, California, US

LightDreams wrote:
Deleted...

I had originally posted about a strange boast Trump made about winning the Nobel prize twice during a rally today.  However he did retract it at the same rally, and there actually was a reasonably plausible explanation for his confusion at the time.  So I'll just leave it as a mistake.

you are FAR more generous than I.

Trump has had a lot of trouble with the Nobel Peace Prize--- he knows damn well he will NEVER win one--- so he resorts to his normal lies and distortions--

It drives him to distraction that Obama was awarded one----

Trump has been nominated---each time by an ultra-right fringe political figure...

poor bastard---just cant get the adulation he craves...

Trump says he deserves Nobel Peace Prize not Abiy Ahmed
10 January 2020
----  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-51063149

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/121AC/production/_110465147_gettyimages-491868080.jpg

"I'm going to tell you about the Nobel Peace Prize, I'll tell you about that. I made a deal, I saved a country, and I just heard that the head of that country is now getting the Nobel Peace Prize for saving the country. I said: 'What, did I have something to do with it?' Yeah, but you know, that's the way it is. As long as we know, that's all that matters... I saved a big war, I've saved a couple of them."

A video clip of him talking to supporters at a campaign event in Toledo, Ohio, on Thursday evening was shared on Twitter.
[...]
Did Trump help broker peace between Ethiopia and Eritrea?

Not really - the US's influence in the peace talks was minimal. The United Arab Emirates, which has a lot of influence in the Horn of Africa, was key in helping to bring the two parties together, says the BBC's former Ethiopia correspondent, Emmanuel Igunza.

Saudi Arabia also played a key role in helping end the dispute.

Oct 25 20 08:22 pm Link

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Tony From Syracuse

Posts: 2397

Syracuse, New York, US

Speaking of underserved Nobel peace prizes for PR reasons rather than actual merit....

Nobel secretary regrets Obama peace prize


Geir Lundestad told the AP news agency that the committee hoped the award would strengthen Mr Obama.

Instead, the decision was met with criticism in the US. Many argued he had not had any impact worthy of the award.

Mr Lundestad, writing in his memoir, Secretary of Peace, said even Mr Obama himself had been surprised.

"No Nobel Peace Prize ever elicited more attention than the 2009 prize to Barack Obama," Mr Lundestad writes.

"Even many of Obama's supporters believed that the prize was a mistake," he says. "In that sense the committee didn't achieve what it had hoped for".

or even Obamas own words.... 'To be honest, I still don’t know what my Nobel Peace Prize was for'
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/peop … 67321.html

Oct 25 20 11:05 pm Link

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rfordphotos

Posts: 8396

Antioch, California, US

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
Speaking of underserved Nobel peace prizes for PR reasons rather than actual merit....

[...]

we werent talking about anything other than Trump's lies.

We were talking about the lies your boy KEEPS telling about HIS suitability for a Nobel prize. (He has none)

You wont get a debate out of me on Obama's award---never had a clue why it was awarded...

But we were talking about Trump, not Obama----Obama isnt running for re-election, and Trump, and his constant stream of lies and distortions is...


Edit to add: And can ----ANYONE---- anyone at all, even remotely imagine Trump having the honesty, the courage, the humility to say" 'To be honest, I still don’t know what my Nobel Peace Prize was for'"----

Totally incapable of that kind of honesty---he proves it DAILY

Oct 25 20 11:40 pm Link

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Tony From Syracuse

Posts: 2397

Syracuse, New York, US

Oh cripes sake all these people Trump included are lying. Biden saying what he has to per audience regarding fracking and him most likely taking bags of cash via his son from China for a couple.

But...What I was actually thinking is how the Obama Nobel peace prize thing mirrors affirmative action in America only on a global scale.
Given something as a “leg up” not based on merit or skill. But given based on his race.they wont say that of course. but its good to see you at least recognize that HUGE sham. I dont think they hand out those peace prizes like samples at hickory farms.

Oct 26 20 06:47 am Link

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LightDreams

Posts: 2871

Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

Tony, some of your statements are just shameful.  And I'm NOT talking about the "wild political claims" about Biden, or anything like that.  There's a very different word for the later statements that you just made, the ones that I'm referring to.  I'd STRONGLY suggest deleting them.

We finally got a "politics" based thread approved, and it looks like you're absolutely determined to get this thread shut down as well.  Please don't.

Oct 26 20 07:17 am Link

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Baanthai

Posts: 1177

Bangkok, Bangkok, Thailand

rfordphotos wrote:
You wont get a debate out of me on Obama's award---never had a clue why it was awarded...

Although this thread has quickly devolved into racism, I will post this link:

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace … s-release/

Oct 26 20 08:29 am Link

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rfordphotos

Posts: 8396

Antioch, California, US

Baanthai wrote:

Although this thread has quickly devolved into racism, I will post this link:

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace … s-release/

I hope you are not accusing me of racism. Particularly when I am voicing the identical questions about the award Obama himself voiced.

His award was -as the committee has since said- given more for potential actions, rather than historical actions. *What he could do- not what he has done* I cant fault their motives, but it was rather unprecedented. Sad for world peace that he wasnt more successful. Sad that so much hate and violence still exists, even after the notable efforts of -all- the Nobel Peace Prize winners.

Oct 26 20 08:59 am Link

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Baanthai

Posts: 1177

Bangkok, Bangkok, Thailand

rfordphotos wrote:
I hope you are not accusing me of racism.

Nope.

Oct 26 20 09:35 am Link

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rxz

Posts: 831

Glen Ellyn, Illinois, US

I think the Nobel committee awarded Pres Obama the Peace Prize as a reward to the American voters for not electing another Republican.  It was a slap in the face to Bush.  They had enough of the Bush administration with the invasion and starting a war with Iraq and sitting back while they let financial greet bring the American banking system and the rest of the world to almost a complete collapse.  And for Trump, the Joe Stalin War award for sitting back while North Korea developed an intercontinental missile to strike the U.S. and and backing out of a treaty to let Iran restart and continue the development of nuclear weapons.

Oct 26 20 10:48 am Link

Artist/Painter

jmillerpainter

Posts: 23

Buffalo, New York, US

Who cares about the Nobel prize? The process has always been flawed, it has limits to how many people can get it for the same research among other things. Why there is even a list! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize_controversies

Oct 26 20 11:37 am Link

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Chuckarelei

Posts: 11242

Seattle, Washington, US

rxz wrote:
I think the Nobel committee awarded Pres Obama the Peace Prize as a reward to the American voters for not electing another Republican.  It was a slap in the face to Bush.  They had enough of the Bush administration with the invasion and starting a war with Iraq and sitting back while they let financial greet bring the American banking system and the rest of the world to almost a complete collapse.  And for Trump, the Joe Stalin War award for sitting back while North Korea developed an intercontinental missile to strike the U.S. and and backing out of a treaty to let Iran restart and continue the development of nuclear weapons.

Your opinion, not necessary the fact.  smile

Oct 26 20 12:37 pm Link

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Focuspuller

Posts: 1147

Los Angeles, California, US

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
I am excited about whats going to happen, but mostly I want it to be over one way or the other. because once a president has been elected its like you can go back to your life and not be caught up in the politics of it all.

no matter who was elected the dynamics my life never changed. still got to go to work. ugh, so ready for it to be over!

SOOO good to know that Tony is ok as long as the knee is not on HIS neck or HIS kids are not ripped from him forever.  Also doesn't mind being lied to CONSTANTLY by a con artist posing as a president or whether his great  grandkids will have to find another planet to live on. Good solid citizenship, there, sport.

Oct 26 20 03:29 pm Link

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Tony From Syracuse

Posts: 2397

Syracuse, New York, US

AND.... the Obama/Biden admin BUILT those cages, so you have to at least give thanks for your sides admin for being so nice to have cages ready for the children, and lets not forget your con man appears to have been raking in cash from China, and lets not forget all those police officers murdered during the protests by the.... peaceful... protestors.
as if you lost some sleep over Floyd. boo...hoo.

Oct 26 20 03:34 pm Link

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Focuspuller

Posts: 1147

Los Angeles, California, US

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
AND.... the Obama/Biden admin BUILT those cages, so you have to at least give thanks for your sides admin for being so nice to have cages ready for the children, and lets not forget your con man appears to have been raking in cash from China, and lets not forget all those police officers murdered during the protests by the.... peaceful... protestors.
as if you lost some sleep over Floyd. boo...hoo.

AND the ISSUE is children separated from their parents FOREVER. Even allowing for you lot's incapacity for staying on topic, but really...DO give it a go, just ONCE, ok, mate? Cheers.

AND If Biden "APPEARS" to be taking money from China, then Trump "APPEARS" to be a Russian stooge, felonious obstructor of justice, tax evader, bankrupt, and in violation of the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution. Fair?

AND "police officers murdered" is a LIE. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/were- … -protests/

Anything else, model citizen?

Oct 26 20 04:09 pm Link

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Kens Lens

Posts: 838

Aurora, Colorado, US

Focuspuller wrote:
AND the ISSUE is children separated from their parents FOREVER. Even allowing for you lot's incapacity for staying on topic, but really...DO give it a go, just ONCE, ok, mate? Cheers.

AND If Biden "APPEARS" to be taking money from China, then Trump "APPEARS" to be a Russian stooge, felonious obstructor of justice, tax evader, bankrupt, and in violation of the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution. Fair?

AND "police officers murdered" is a LIE. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/were- … -protests/

Anything else, model citizen?

Here are the names of officers killed in the line of duty for several years, and the type a fatality, back you model citizen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_l … ted_States

Oct 26 20 04:19 pm Link

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Focuspuller

Posts: 1147

Los Angeles, California, US

Kens Lens wrote:

Here are the names of officers killed in the line of duty for several years, and the type a fatality, back you model citizen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_l … ted_States

Don't know what that proves, other than police are killed in the line of duty, which is very sad. The accusation in question, however, is " police officers murdered during the protests by the.... peaceful... protestors. "

Oct 26 20 04:32 pm Link

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Chuckarelei

Posts: 11242

Seattle, Washington, US

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
AND.... the Obama/Biden admin BUILT those cages, so you have to at least give thanks for your sides admin for being so nice to have cages ready for the children, and lets not forget your con man appears to have been raking in cash from China, and lets not forget all those police officers murdered during the protests by the.... peaceful... protestors.
as if you lost some sleep over Floyd. boo...hoo.

Also, those children died along the way in order to enter the U.S. illegally. Apparently they don't mean anything because it does not fit their trump hating narrative.

Oct 26 20 04:40 pm Link

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Chuckarelei

Posts: 11242

Seattle, Washington, US

Kens Lens wrote:
Don't know what that proves, other than police are killed in the line of duty, which is very sad. The accusation in question, however, is " police officers murdered during the protests by the.... peaceful... protestors. "

There you go, PEACEFUL PROTESTORS!

Unbelievable!?!

Oct 26 20 04:41 pm Link

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Kens Lens

Posts: 838

Aurora, Colorado, US

Chuckarelei wrote:
There you go, PEACEFUL PROTESTORS!

Unbelievable!?!

https://tnc.news/2020/06/10/a-comprehen … -us-riots/

You probably can not name one officer killed by the peaceful protesters and to be honest neither can I, but I can tell you this name David Dorn killed by non peaceful protesters because I actually saw this one. A simple google search would show how many have been killed or injured during your peaceful protests  but that does not fit your narrative. Here here is what turned up on one search, feel free to ignore it, you can take my word that it will not fit your narrative.

https://tnc.news/2020/06/10/a-comprehen … -us-riots/

Oct 26 20 04:55 pm Link

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Tony From Syracuse

Posts: 2397

Syracuse, New York, US

First off, spare us all your pretend "internet caring" Mr Malibu.  all of us here are just too old to buy it.

Obama did the same thing with the children as far as separating them at the border. and you are adding the silly "FOREVER"  just for emotional reasons
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politi … 25764.html

President Barack Obama separated parents from their children at the border.

Obama prosecuted mothers for coming to the United States illegally. He fast tracked deportations. And yes, he housed unaccompanied children in tent cities.

For much of the country — and President Donald Trump — the prevailing belief is that Obama was the president who went easier on immigrants.


BUT I digress... every day in america, children are separated from their parents when their parents commit a crime, the children...dont follow them into the prison system. the separated children go to sponsor families. nobody is lost FOREVER.

but I support any action taken...because the end result of NOT taking action is just going to encourage....MORE parents to take their children on the dangerous journey which puts their lives in danger plus is going to also encourage a LARGER stream of illegals.

also I dont know what the point of posting the snopes article was. more police are supporting Trump. obviously they know which side has created an atmosphere of hate and murder against the police during the riots.

oh one more thing....enjoy!

https://www.google.com/search?q=obama+p … _3xlrUEsPM

Oct 26 20 04:59 pm Link

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Tony From Syracuse

Posts: 2397

Syracuse, New York, US

Chuckarelei wrote:
Also, those children died along the way in order to enter the U.S. illegally. Apparently they don't mean anything because it does not fit their trump hating narrative.

Thats the other obvious good point.  if you look at so many places in california with the tent cities...you are seeing the end game of of the reckless liberal mindset.  just turn a blind eye and let what happens happen. and you see the future of what will happen when "tolerance" meets reality.

Oct 26 20 05:04 pm Link

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rfordphotos

Posts: 8396

Antioch, California, US

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
AND.... the Obama/Biden admin BUILT those cages, so you have to at least give thanks for your sides admin for being so nice to have cages ready for the children, and lets not forget your con man appears to have been raking in cash from China, and lets not forget all those police officers murdered during the protests by the.... peaceful... protestors.
as if you lost some sleep over Floyd. boo...hoo.

There you go again Tony----EXACTLY what makes you think poor behavior by Obama excuses even worse behavior by Trump.

Even if I accepted your premise that  Obama built those cages to separate children from their parents...(I dont) ... how would that even remotely excuse Trump filling them to capacity? How could it POSSIBLY excuse the 500+ children now in custody WITH NO CLUE where their parents are....

And while you are at it---please Tony post your proof that Biden was "raking in the cash from China"

Tony---once more ---two wrongs dont make a right.
==============================================

There is absolutely NO JUSTIFICATION for violence against police officers. NONE. FAR too many violent events happened in the protests this year. But far more protests were---non-violent.

"all those police officers murdered during the protests by the.... peaceful... protestors"

As I said- there is NO justification for violence against a police officer (or any one else for that matter)...

But as hard as I looked---- I can find precisely ONE retired police officer killed during the protests. Murdered by a looter.

------David Dorn, a 77-year-old retired St. Louis police captain was shot and killed on June 2 by looters who broke into a pawn shop. Dorn went to the pawn shop to check on a burglar alarm.David Dorn, a 77-year-old retired St. Louis police captain was shot and killed on June 2 by looters who broke into a pawn shop. Dorn went to the pawn shop to check on a burglar alarm.

I find one other officer who died guarding a Federal building during protests...
-----Patrick Underwood, 53, a federal officer, died as he was providing security at a U.S. courthouse in Oakland, Calif., during a protest when someone fired shots from a vehicle. Another officer was critically wounded.

the facts surrounding his death dont support your premise--- quite the opposite.

(CN) — An Air Force sergeant suspected of ties to a far-right extremist movement pleaded not guilty Thursday to the first-degree murder and attempted murder of two Federal Protective Services officers as they guarded the Ronald V. Dellums Federal Building and U.S. Courthouse in Oakland on May 29.

Sgt. Steven Carrillo, 32, appeared by video before U.S. District Magistrate Judge Nathanael Cousins from Santa Rita Jail. He and co-defendant Robert Alvin Justus Jr., 30, were indicted by a grand jury last Thursday for killing officer David Patrick Underwood and wounding his partner in a drive-by shooting, which federal authorities believe was part of a specific plan to target law enforcement officers during a racial justice protest that was happening simultaneously in downtown Oakland.

FAR FAR TOO many officers have been injured during the protests---that simply isnt acceptable.... but they were the exceptions --the majority of the protests were non-violent.

Oct 26 20 05:31 pm Link

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Tony From Syracuse

Posts: 2397

Syracuse, New York, US

The Biden allegations is a breaking story....but its most likely true.  if this allegation was against Trump and his sons you would believe it outright. but you can play it off now... asking, "where's the evidence" while knowing there has been no investigation, but you wouldnt take that bet. thats a SCARY bet. knowing what you know about Hunter and his dealings with foreign countries and getting rich with no tangible background in the roles he plays. I will let your conscious be the word on that one.

as far as the border separations, you admit that Obama made some mistakes....so now what we have is a sort of justice scale..rising and lowering against both sides....trying to determine, shades....of their responses to the immigration CRISIS.
BOTH put children in cages. both seperated parents. BUT only 1.....Trump prosecuted the parents. what you might consider bad, short term, is having the proper results that will stop children and families from having to go thru this unlike the Obama revolving door policy which will just6 encourage more suffering for families.

Like them or not, Trump policies are reducing immigration
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/co … mmigration

as far as the officers murdered by the protestors there is also a site that logged many of the injured which is absolutely ridiculous for what is in the eyes of the media...peaceful protests.

https://www.cullmantribune.com/2020/06/ … -s-2-dead/

Oct 26 20 06:17 pm Link