Forums > General Industry > MM - The frustrating Parts

Photographer

Frank Dickinson

Posts: 12

Aguas Buenas, Puerto Rico, US

I've been a member of MM for 22 years and have grown more frustrated every year.
While it has be helpful from time to time when finding models, WAY to many times i
have contacted girls who say they want to work and get NO reply.

That, plus the fact that they have HUNDREDS (MAYBE THOUSANDS) of inactive accounts that
continue to pop up, is frustrating.

This past two weeks, i have had 4 MM no shows - no warning, and i am finally convinced that it's time for me
to reevaluate the benefits of MM to me..

At this very moment i am battling a model that wants me to provide a 30% cancellation fee when i sent her a
weeks notice that i couldn't shoot. First time ever but convinced me it's time to retire...
I am terminating my MM account this week...

Sep 15 21 10:15 am Link

Photographer

EdAlemanPhotography

Posts: 35

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Post hidden on Sep 15, 2021 03:09 pm
Reason: outing

Sep 15 21 12:03 pm Link

Photographer

HiResPhotographs

Posts: 92

Corona, California, US

EdAlemanPhotography wrote:
....
As you can see, they don't see a problem here even so much as deflecting the problem back onto me.

I'm with the mods.  I don't see a problem.  You're reading way way way way into this.  Also, the link points to her IG musician page.  Her iG page has a linktree for her....wait for it...musician pages   LOL!

The only scam is you badmouthing her for no reason.

Sep 15 21 12:52 pm Link

Photographer

EdAlemanPhotography

Posts: 35

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

HiResPhotographs wrote:

I'm with the mods.  I don't see a problem.  You're reading way way way way into this.  Also, the link points to her IG musician page.  Her iG page has a linktree for her....wait for it...musician pages   LOL!

The only scam is you badmouthing her for no reason.

You may be right. I have been a member for many years like Frank and am just not used to seeing posts that are encouraging both sides to make money. When I started MM in 2016, that was unheard of so maybe I am reading too much into it as times have changed

Sep 15 21 01:07 pm Link

Photographer

HiResPhotographs

Posts: 92

Corona, California, US

EdAlemanPhotography wrote:
You may be right. I have been a member for many years like Frank and am just not used to seeing posts that are encouraging both sides to make money.

You are still not understanding...

1.  She is looking for great pics = she's willing to collab
2.  She is looking for $$ = she'll take paid work.
3.  She is looking for opportunities = #1 and/or #2. 

That's it.  Nothing nefarious  about it.

Sep 15 21 01:26 pm Link

Photographer

EdAlemanPhotography

Posts: 35

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

HiResPhotographs wrote:

You are still not understanding...

1.  She is looking for great pics = she's willing to collab
2.  She is looking for $$ = she'll take paid work.
3.  She is looking for opportunities = #1 and/or #2. 

That's it.  Nothing nefarious  about it.

Oh I understand perfectly, I am old school and just not used to acronyms but to each his/her own. There was no argument there btw as I said you were right. smile

Sep 15 21 01:30 pm Link

Photographer

Jason McKendricks

Posts: 6014

Chico, California, US

No shows have been a problem long before Mayhem existed. It just became more common when internet modeling became a thing. Anybody with a fantasy of becoming a model could create a profile and enjoy the experience of setting up a shoot but actually showing up is a little too scary for some. It goes the other way too. Some new photographers bother models about shooting but have no plans to actually go through with it.

I find that a pre-shoot meeting or at least a phone call with the model helps to weed out the flakes. A meeting is not usually possible with traveling models but they will have a list of references that can vouch for their professionalism. If for some reason you have a shoot planned with a model who cannot meet or call beforehand and has no references then I'd suggest having a back up plan.

Sep 15 21 02:28 pm Link

Photographer

Mark Salo

Posts: 11168

Olney, Maryland, US

Jason McKendricks wrote:
No shows have been a problem long before Mayhem existed.

My veterinarian sends me four emails to be sure that I am going to show up (with my cat).

Sep 15 21 03:25 pm Link

Photographer

G Reese

Posts: 819

Marion, Indiana, US

I don't see the 30% for canceling  a week before as too unreasonable.  Not easy to get another job within a week.
No easier  than me finding another model after one canceled. Didn't get the deposit back either. 
It's plainly stated, MM can't be  involved in disputes. We are all on our own.

Sep 15 21 05:20 pm Link

Photographer

EdAlemanPhotography

Posts: 35

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

Mark Salo wrote:

My veterinarian sends me four emails to be sure that I am going to show up (with my cat).

Mark,
My church is the same way for the volunteers. We get an email asking if we are interested in serving, one if we don't respond by Monday of the next week, and finally one 24 hours prior to serving. The service industry has it right IMO

Sep 15 21 05:21 pm Link

Photographer

Fred Gerhart

Posts: 745

San Antonio, Texas, US

Easily solved by a contract that the model and photographer both sign. The contract will contain or should contain the cancelation policy that both are in agreement.

Sep 16 21 04:58 am Link

Photographer

Red Sky Photography

Posts: 3800

Germantown, Maryland, US

Frank Dickinson wrote:
At this very moment i am battling a model that wants me to provide a 30% cancellation fee when i sent her a
weeks notice that i couldn't shoot. First time ever but convinced me it's time to retire...
I am terminating my MM account this week...

I have been a VIP member for as long as that was available. Since I rarely shoot anymore due to medical issues, I recently downgraded to a Basic membership. It costs me nothing and I can still keep in touch with traveling and local modes I know and might want to shoot when possible.

As to the cancellation fee...pretty much every service industry has cancellation protocols.

Sep 16 21 06:29 am Link

Photographer

Paolo D Photography

Posts: 11447

San Francisco, California, US

Frank Dickinson wrote:
I've been a member of MM for 22 years....

um,... wait. what?


I've had consistently good results with MM for at least the last 53 years.
For anyone having difficulty with flakes or whatever, i suggest reevaluate your communication skills / style / creep factor.

Sep 16 21 09:33 am Link

Photographer

Brooklyn Bridge Images

Posts: 13088

Brooklyn, New York, US

Frank Dickinson wrote:
I've been a member of MM for 22 years and have grown more frustrated every year.

At this very moment i am battling a model that wants me to provide a 30% cancellation fee

Didnt MM start cira 2005 ?
My maths are very poor but isnt MM 16 yrs old

Did you know she charged fees b4 you booked her ?
I wont work with any internet model that charges deposits, fees etc

Sep 16 21 09:59 am Link

Photographer

Flex Photography

Posts: 6432

Sudbury, Ontario, Canada

Paolo D Photography wrote:

um,... wait. what?


I've had consistently good results with MM for at least the last 53 years.
For anyone having difficulty with flakes or whatever, i suggest reevaluate your communication skills / style / creep factor.

...and math!!

Sep 17 21 07:49 pm Link

Photographer

All Yours Photography

Posts: 2702

Toledo, Ohio, US

Paolo D Photography wrote:

um,... wait. what?


I've had consistently good results with MM for at least the last 53 years.
For anyone having difficulty with flakes or whatever, i suggest reevaluate your communication skills / style / creep factor.

So you were using MM for 15 years before the internet was created?

Oct 13 21 12:20 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 44624

Salinas, California, US

Frank Dickinson wrote:
I've been a member of MM for 22 years....

Paolo D Photography wrote:
um,... wait. what?


I've had consistently good results with MM for at least the last 53 years.
For anyone having difficulty with flakes or whatever, i suggest reevaluate your communication skills / style / creep factor.

Incredible that these two members were using Modelmayhem before it existed!   Could either of you please send me the future lottery numbers?  I've only been on here since Apr 09, 2005 and I feel like I've missed so much!

Oct 13 21 05:15 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 44624

Salinas, California, US

Frank Dickinson wrote:
I've been a member of MM for 22 years and have grown more frustrated every year.
While it has be helpful from time to time when finding models, WAY to many times i
have contacted girls who say they want to work and get NO reply.

That, plus the fact that they have HUNDREDS (MAYBE THOUSANDS) of inactive accounts that
continue to pop up, is frustrating.

This past two weeks, i have had 4 MM no shows - no warning, and i am finally convinced that it's time for me
to reevaluate the benefits of MM to me..

At this very moment i am battling a model that wants me to provide a 30% cancellation fee when i sent her a
weeks notice that i couldn't shoot. First time ever but convinced me it's time to retire...
I am terminating my MM account this week...

If you were on here as a member before the website launched, I understand your frustration.

You say it's been helpful.  Okay.  You say you have contacted "girls" who say they want to work .. that is a problem right there.  Contact women, not "girls" or perhaps you are degrading women by calling them "girls?"   Also how do you know "they say they want to work"  if in that same sentence, you say you don't get a reply??  I do not understand this. 

Then you mention the "inactive accounts" thta pop up.  I'm sorry that life has such challenges, but I drive for Lyft and everyday I am faced with challenges that take human intervention.  I don't expect this website to be perfect.  I don't own this domain.  I do not own this website.  I suggest that if you have time to waste concerning yourself with the many inactive accounts, that you report them to the Administration of this website. 

I've been a photographer of people for over 40 years.  I've had many people flake on me over the years, and I learned to do things to reduce the number of no shows/no calls that I have.  In fact, I have posted tips regarding how I wor,k on ohere many times.  https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post/948053/3

Models are human beings too!  Thye have had photographers flake on them.  They have had photographers short change them on their time & money.  They have the right to ask for a deposit just as much as you have a right to reject it.  Don't go around calling them "girls" and perhaps they will respond to you better? 

Since you've been a member before the website was even launched, you might be tired.  So I can't blame you if you retire.  However, you made your announcement to leave sometime ago, but are still here.  I'm not a complainer, and will still be here.

Oct 13 21 05:41 pm Link

Photographer

Mark Salo

Posts: 11168

Olney, Maryland, US

Frank Dickinson wrote:
At this very moment i am battling a model that wants me to provide a 30% cancellation fee ...

You either will pay or you won't. Why are you battling?

Oct 13 21 07:04 pm Link

Photographer

Immersion Studios

Posts: 809

Dayton, Ohio, US

Frank Dickinson wrote:
I am terminating my MM account this week...

Why wait until the end of the week. It sounds like your mind is made up. 

I'm not sure why you posted this.  Serves no purpose to yourself or to others.

Oct 14 21 05:02 am Link

Photographer

Tony Lawrence

Posts: 21488

Chicago, Illinois, US

Over the last month I have had models from Facebook reach out to me about shoots and then flaked or stopped responding to messages.   Does it bother me, a bit but I try to focus on those models who have shown up.  Some who have posed nude in dirty and abandoned factories and buildings.  Several who have driven miles too shoot for no money.  Several who treated me too lunches. Yet, I don't expect professionalism from non professionals.  I ask models to confirm the day of our shoot a few hours before by text or messenger.   I consider how often models seem to update their photos.   One who reached out to me had images years old on her FB profile.   That doesn't mean she'll flake but I consider that its more likely then not.

Guys, don't set up sessions where you are paying for studio time or a MUA or where you are taking off work too shoot.  Always get a phone number for your model and if she/he refuses move on.  Get that confirmation text or message before you travel to a location.  Last, never make or take what others do personally.   Despite what a member here has said  95%  of the time its not what you've said that made a difference.

Oct 14 21 07:35 am Link

Photographer

Mark Salo

Posts: 11168

Olney, Maryland, US

Frank Dickinson wrote:
I've been a member of MM for 22 years....

Paolo D Photography wrote:
I've had consistently good results with MM for at least the last 53 years.

My Godparents signed me up at birth and I haven't regretted one year.

Oct 14 21 10:48 am Link

Photographer

Paolo D Photography

Posts: 11447

San Francisco, California, US

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Incredible that these two members were using Modelmayhem before it existed!   Could either of you please send me the future lottery numbers?  I've only been on here since Apr 09, 2005 and I feel like I've missed so much!

not only before it existed but also before i was born!
heres the numbers you requested:
22 25 37 41 69 23

Oct 14 21 05:56 pm Link

Photographer

Camera Buff

Posts: 837

Maryborough, Queensland, Australia

Expectation feeds frustration ... lower your expectations and continue to enjoy the opportunities to photograph those models who do come your way.

Oct 14 21 06:22 pm Link

Clothing Designer

veypurr

Posts: 380

Albuquerque, New Mexico, US

Paolo D Photography wrote:

um,... wait. what?


I've had consistently good results with MM for at least the last 53 years.
For anyone having difficulty with flakes or whatever, i suggest reevaluate your communication skills / style / creep factor.

You are a relative newcomer to MM. I have been a member since 1824, before the camera was invented.

Oct 14 21 08:20 pm Link

Photographer

Bob Helm Photography

Posts: 18762

Cherry Hill, New Jersey, US

How do you know an account is inactive?

Just because a person has not logged into their account for some time does not mean that they are not checking it regularly without logging in and they could be reading their emails by having them forwarded.

Today both models and photographers have multiple social media accounts and may use FB or Ig more and if they have multiple MM accounts they may always answer from one to keep thing simple.

I know of one model that I shot back in 2015 that hasn't logged in here since 2015 but has over 3 million followers on IG and just landed a major ad campaign. I assume that most photographers here could no longer afford her rates now any way

Oct 15 21 11:40 am Link

Photographer

Randy Poe

Posts: 1599

Colorado Springs, Colorado, US

Edited, decided to leave it alone.

Oct 15 21 06:38 pm Link

Photographer

Mark Salo

Posts: 11168

Olney, Maryland, US

Jason McKendricks wrote:
No shows have been a problem long before Mayhem existed.

And even outside of Model Mayhem.

My wife ordered a new stove from a big box store. It was scheduled to be delivered this morning. No stove, no call, no nothing. The store says that the delivery man does not have a phone.

Now I'm doing battle with the store for a 30% cancellation fee.

Oct 16 21 02:09 pm Link

Photographer

JSouthworth

Posts: 2

Kingston upon Hull, England, United Kingdom

If you think this is bad, I've just been banned from two UK modelling sites (run by the same people) simply for posting a photograph they didn't like, which I will now add to my profile so that you can see what I'm referring to.
To explain a little further, the picture shows a model called Penny Dreadful, who was working for Humberside Police at the time we did a photoshoot about  5 years ago.

Oct 16 21 03:19 pm Link

Photographer

Francisco Castro

Posts: 2572

Cincinnati, Ohio, US

If you can't take cancellations, no shows, people who are late, or refuse to work with you, you're in the wrong business. To quote Alec Baldwin in "Glengarry Glenn Ross".

"Nice guy? I don't give a shit. Good father? Fuck you! Go home and play with your kids. You wanna work here—close! You think this is abuse? You think this is abuse, you cocksucker? You can't take this, how can you take the abuse you get on a sit? You don't like it, leave.

As you all know, first prize is Cadillac Eldorado. Anybody wanna see second prize? Second prize's a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired. Do you get the picture? Are you laughing now?"


If a shoot doesn't go as planned, move on. If the crew doesn't show, move on. Move on.

Shoots are for closers.

Oct 16 21 10:19 pm Link