Brian Doherty wrote:
are those better than getting the canon MR-14EX?

well, that canon is good for table top and product stuff, not people. rings need serious power.

Brian Doherty wrote:
cool, so ill stay away from that, i'm def looking to use it for portrait and glam work... also i'd like to try it out at a club photographing a dj

dj's move a lot, and remember he has to be closer to the background than you are too him, rings are very cumbersome too, so good luck with that. you'll light up a club, so i hope this is afterhours and set up. The less power the weaker the halo'd shadow effect. I always shoot around 1200-1800ws

TestShoot wrote:

dj's move a lot, and remember he has to be closer to the background than you are too him, rings are very cumbersome too, so good luck with that. you'll light up a club, so i hope this is afterhours and set up. The less power the weaker the halo'd shadow effect. I always shoot around 1200-1800ws

TestShoot - you have just made me green with envy!

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

TestShoot wrote:

dj's move a lot, and remember he has to be closer to the background than you are too him, rings are very cumbersome too, so good luck with that. you'll light up a club, so i hope this is afterhours and set up. The less power the weaker the halo'd shadow effect. I always shoot around 1200-1800ws

Which ringliight unit is that?

RAW-R IMAGE wrote:
May as well be the 1st before the flaming starts.

Get an AlienBee ABR 800 and a Vagabond 300. Total $4000.

Sorry that logic is very flawed,  use what you have currently and make money and save up for what you want,  It may well be that the alienbee is fine for your needs, but either way, its rarely ever wise to buy something that is not needed just to wait to save for a more expensive version of the same. 

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

RAW-R IMAGE wrote:
May as well be the 1st before the flaming starts.

Get an AlienBee ABR 800 and a Vagabond 300. Total $4000.

Now that I've acquired a Profoto 7b & B2, my Elinchrom Ranger w/"A" head & ringlight is up for sale. PM me for details.

TestShoot wrote:

well, that canon is good for table top and product stuff, not people. rings need serious power.

Here we go again!

Sigh!

NYPHOTOGRAPHICS wrote:
the best would be the broncolor verso 2400ws with 300w modeling lights  Its a great flash and the packs are amazing, can do battery and ac adapters for studio. 

Also a bit expensive, but you asked the best.  Now in a good and less expensive one, the hensel and porty is great and the handle and octahaze are worth it.  Lumedyne makes one with a modeling light as well, very low power though, the ringflash is the same as the hensel.  Elinchrom is about the same price for a setup as the hensel, no handle or octahaze.  The profoto makes one for the 7 series also expensive and they ahve one for the 600acute which is less but half the power of the hensel, elinchrom versions.  And the zeus by white lighting is a 1200 or 2400 ws pack and ring which can be powered by the vagabond 2 and I hear it works nicely.  I would not recommend the alienbee one as its not powerful and I have heard many complaints about it for various reasons, though there are people who swear by them.  There were also people who love the yugo go figure?

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

Stephen, let's say I don't want to use the Hensel Porty for power, since it's battery. What would you recommend for AC based power? Also, am I correct in assuming you were referring to the Hensel 1200P ring light? They have that 3000 XS on their site as well. In your opinion, is 1200 WS the minimum, entry level power for fashion, etc.?

Thanks in advance.

Greg

criderphotography wrote:
Stephen, let's say I don't want to use the Hensel Porty for power, since it's battery. What would you recommend for AC based power? Also, am I correct in assuming you were referring to the Hensel 1200P ring light? They have that 3000 XS on their site as well. In your opinion, is 1200 WS the minimum, entry level power for fashion, etc.?

Thanks in advance.

Greg

I'm not Stephen, but I have the Hensel porty and 1200ws ringflash, and its fine for fashion, etc. I personally don't see any need for more power, but if I did for an occasional special shot, I'd rent it. I've used mine inside and, outside (that's how the cover of my calendar on my avatar was lit), and almost always at one of the lower power settings, usually around f8 or f11. The best way to use the Hensel on "AC" power is to actually have two batteries, and keep one on the charger. That way, it will re-charge the second battery in about an hour or less, normally before you run down the primary battery. I found out the hard way that if I left the installed battery on the charger while shooting, it still ran down (because of the way it charges the battery only, it doesn't provide directly power to the pack), then I was stuck. This info straight from the Hensel rep, and its worked fine ever since. I used to have a Profoto ringflash (that I used with an adapter to run it from my studio Norman packs), but having the ability to go battery, without the expense and weight of a Profoto 7b system made me go with Hensel.

Andy Pearlman

Brian Doherty wrote:
would it be better to use a ring on a fixed lens? and thats a damn nice set up you have there.
about the power... it's adjustable?

Since your exposure is based on the flash-to-subject distance, its best to be able to set it and not change the camera to subject distance, since the flash is attached to the camera. For this reason, I prefer to use a zoom lens to re-frame. If you are hand-holding and moving around a room, be prepared to take meter readings and/or check the LCD to determine necessary exposure adjustments. You can make those adjustments by the f-stop on the camera (always shoot in manual for this) or most power packs have adjustable power output settings (much easier if you have an assistant), although... the Hensel has a wireless trigger with a built-in power output adjustment, so you can adjust your power in 1/10th of a stop at time, up or down, from the camera position. All the other pack and head systems (Profoto, Elinchrome, Norman, etc) have adjustable power as well, just not sure how they're controlled.

Andy Pearlman

Andy Pearlman wrote:

I'm not Stephen, but I have the Hensel porty and 1200ws ringflash, and its fine for fashion, etc. I personally don't see any need for more power, but if I did for an occasional special shot, I'd rent it. I've used mine inside and, outside (that's how the cover of my calendar on my avatar was lit), and almost always at one of the lower power settings, usually around f8 or f11. The best way to use the Hensel on "AC" power is to actually have two batteries, and keep one on the charger. That way, it will re-charge the second battery in about an hour or less, normally before you run down the primary battery. I found out the hard way that if I left the installed battery on the charger while shooting, it still ran down (because of the way it charges the battery only, it doesn't provide directly power to the pack), then I was stuck. This info straight from the Hensel rep, and its worked fine ever since. I used to have a Profoto (that I used with an adapter to run it from my studio Norman packs), but having the ability to go battery, without the expense and weight of a Profoto 7b system made me go with Hensel.

Andy Pearlman

Thanks Andy, that answered all of my concerns. Since the recharge time on the battery is relatively quick, then the swapping technique you describe is fine. The ability to use outdoors is nice too.

BTW, how do you find using the Hensel ringlight without the benefit of modeling lights on it for studio work?

Either way, thanks for your feedback.

criderphotography wrote:
BTW, how do you find using the Hensel ringlight without the benefit of modeling lights on it for studio work?

Either way, thanks for your feedback.

Especially since the advent of the LCD, its no problem. You're essentially seeing what you're shooting if the ambient light is flat, meaning not shadowy, but it always looks better with the ring doing its thing. When I'm in the studio (hard to do this on a beach) I try to get some really bright light source, like a 1000w shop light, and put it on a boom right over the ringlight. (Setting a proper f-stop and shutter speed, you won't see it at all). It isn't really a modeling light, but in a dark studio (since you might be using only the ringlight for exposure) it addresses three issues: 1) Gives you a bright light to focus by (or your AF to work by), 2) lets you see the model and her pose, and 3) reduces or eliminates the red-eye you will almost certainly get from the ringflash if used in a dark environment.

Andy Pearlman

TestShoot wrote:
The less power the weaker the halo'd shadow effect. I always shoot around 1200-1800ws

This is not correct information.  Several factors including flash to subject distance, subject to background distance and angle, tone and reflectivity of background and ratio of ringflash exposure to ambient or other strobe exposure all effect the impact of the halo effect.   Quoting watt seconds is worthless information without taking into account all of the other factors and not accruate or useful in most situations.  The same halo effect can be made at numerous levels of strobe power. 

A more accurate statement would be that the halo effect is greater at closer ringflash to subject distances regardless of watt second power.  The OP will have to experiment to get his own desired effect.  I tend to work w/ no greater than twice the subject to background distance than ringflash to subject distance, but that is my preference.

And since the OP asked about battery powered ring flash--how is exactly that you get 1800ws thru your Profoto Acute2Ring?  The Acute 600b battery pack, the only Profoto battery pack designed to work with the Acute2Ring is 600ws.  I do have a Hesel Porty with a modified cable that allows me to shoot the w/ my Acute2Ring but it only goes up to 1200ws.  I'm not familiar w/ any 1800ws battery strobe packs, but maybe there are some.  At 1800ws the Acute2Ring heats up very quickly and is rated for only 6 flashes per minute or less (9600 Joules per minute).

criderphotography wrote:

Stephen, let's say I don't want to use the Hensel Porty for power, since it's battery. What would you recommend for AC based power? Also, am I correct in assuming you were referring to the Hensel 1200P ring light? They have that 3000 XS on their site as well. In your opinion, is 1200 WS the minimum, entry level power for fashion, etc.?

Thanks in advance.

Greg

1200 is the minimum if you want full control at overpowering daylight  check here http://stepheneastwood.com/tutorials/sk … ychart.htm  Now if you are OK with limitations you do not need 1200ws or more, if yuo shoot with a wide lens and can get in 2 feet from he model you don't need 1200ws, if you want to be about 6-8 feet away using a long lens to get a nice compression of the features to make the face look flattering than you need the power to do it.

In studio the broncolor is the best you can buy.  Aside from that the hensel and elinchrom are both good, I would also say that the porty ringflash does fit on a hensel mini 1200 studio pack as well, and the 3000ws flash fits the older style packs, I am not a huge fan of those.  Elinchrom are also great rings and have studio packs.  The broncolor has a super bright modeling light if thats ever needed.  Profoto also has rings for the acute and 7 series, I am not a huge fan of either but I like the d4 packs and the rings also fit on those as well. 

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

Andy Pearlman wrote:
Regarding the halo effect... I played with this a bit after buying my Hensel ringflash (while I still had the Profoto) and determined that part of the effect is created by the large silver reflector dish that is used with the Profoto (sold separately, it looks like this, only mine is chrome http://tinyurl.com/2tw6ny). When I sold my Profoto I kept the reflector and adapted it to fit my Hensel (exactly the same size unit!) so I could get that effect when I wanted it, since when using the ringlight inside, I usually prefer to have the model right up against the background.

Andy Pearlman

Andy, Stephen,

Thank you very much for you feedback. It's been very helpful. I've been going back and forth on which ringlight to pickup, and the Hensel seems to be more inline with what I can afford with respect to how I want to use it.

Andy Pearlman wrote:
... I played with this a bit after buying my Hensel ringflash (while I still had the Profoto) and determined that part of the effect is created by the large silver reflector dish that is used with the Profoto

The halo effect is created by a light source surrounding the lens and traveling in the same line/angle as that of the lens and causing the subject to create a shadow on the background.  It is not neccessarily enhanced by the softlight or wide-angle ringflash reflector, in fact those usually dimish the effect by making the light source larger and effectively wrapping around the subject. 

Not sure how you were using your Profoto ringflash w/o out the reflector, but it certainly does make the halo effect on it's own.

Andy Pearlman wrote:
... I played with this a bit after buying my Hensel ringflash (while I still had the Profoto) and determined that part of the effect is created by the large silver reflector dish that is used with the Profoto

Dan Howell wrote:
The halo effect is created by a light source surrounding the lens and traveling in the same line/angle as that of the lens and causing the subject to create a shadow on the background.  It is not neccessarily enhanced by the softlight or wide-angle ringflash reflector, in fact those usually dimish the effect by making the light source larger and effectively wrapping around the subject. 

Not sure how you were using your Profoto ringflash w/o out the reflector, but it certainly does make the halo effect on it's own.

The shadow (halo) is created by that portion of the background receiving half as much light as the rest of the background. Most of the background is lit (equally) by all of the ringlight, so for example, a section at the 9 O'clock position outside the halo, is being lit by both the 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock sides of the ringlight. But inside the halo, the 3 o'clock side of the ringlight's light is being blocked by the model, letting only the direct 9 o'clock side hit the background. If the source of the ring is larger, the light comes in at more of an angle, meaning the 3 o'clock side will have a more pronounced shadow, with the 9 o'clock side still hitting the background directly. The way the reflector works (and remember, mine is brushed aluminum, not soft white), it masks the light emitting from the ringflash directly, so that only the larger reflector actively sends out light. The closer you are to the model, the more pronounced the effect is. I did try it without the reflector at various distances (both ring to model and model to background) and could never get the effect as well as when I used the reflector, so I kept it. Frankly, I'd love to get rid of it since its a PITA to travel with, so I'm open to suggestions.

Here's an old example with the reflector on (she's about 18" from the background paper):



Andy Pearlman

Andy Pearlman wrote:
The way the reflector works (and remember, mine is brushed aluminum, not soft white), it masks the light emitting from the ringflash directly, so that only the larger reflector actively sends out light. The closer you are to the model, the more pronounced the effect is. I did try it without the reflector at various distances (both ring to model and model to background) and could never get the effect as well as when I used the reflector, so I kept it.

That would be correct except for the fact that you are forgetting that when you increase the size of the light source, the '9 o'clock' side is now also out further and filling in a greater of shadow area on it's own side of the subject while the same thing is happening on the '3 o'clock' side. 

And, yeah, I know which reflector you are referring to, as I have one myself.  The intended use of that reflector is to widen the array of the ringflash to work with wider lenses.  I most commonly use my ringflash to create more of a spectral reflection in jeweled or reflective dresses and the somewhat mirror-like effect on skin.  The halo-effect shadow is not as often the reason I select the ringflash and I often defeat the shadow with other lighting.

NYPHOTOGRAPHICS wrote:
I would not recommend the alienbee one as its not powerful and I have heard many complaints about it for various reasons, though there are people who swear by them.  There were also people who love the yugo go figure?

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

Ok I'm a poor fine art photographer..poor $$ wise not talent. I Don't drive a Yugo but I do drive Hondas and not BWM's. I like wise use and love and find plenty powerful enough the AB 800 ring light. But then i make art and an shoot with wide angles and am therefore close...only a couple of times have I had to crank the AB unit up to full power. usually I'm at 1/4 power. I like to shoot around F/4 and I am usually less than 8' (more often less than 4') away. ll this factors in to why I like it. Now if I had $4K I'd love a smaller unit that had more power..in fact as Stephen mentioned i am looking at the Zeus set up. But it's totally for the depth of the hole on the ring NOT the power. I'd like to use a wider lens and not have to work around the vignetting. NOw all that said...I HATE the frigin cheap ass mount..and I spent $400 on a Custom bracket mount to get around it. But it also makes verticals a snap as well. And unlike many I also use the rig on my tripod more than hand held.

curvacionphoto wrote:
Whats the best battery ring flash for a Nikon D200?

I use the D200 BTW...and the AB 800 Ring light. Here is an example (18+) of the ring light outside... https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pic_id= … id=3965115
And another outside using a wider lens, over powering the sun and playing with the vignetting creatively... https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pic_id= … id=5128326

R Michael Walker wrote:

I use the D200 BTW...and the AB 800 Ring light. Here is an example (18+) of the ring light outside... https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pic_id= … id=3965115
And another outside using a wider lens, over powering the sun and playing with the vignetting creatively... https://modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pic_id= … id=5128326

Your pics look really good..thanks.......

TestShoot wrote:

dj's move a lot, and remember he has to be closer to the background than you are too him, rings are very cumbersome too, so good luck with that. you'll light up a club, so i hope this is afterhours and set up. The less power the weaker the halo'd shadow effect. I always shoot around 1200-1800ws

Andy Pearlman wrote:
The way the reflector works (and remember, mine is brushed aluminum, not soft white), it masks the light emitting from the ringflash directly, so that only the larger reflector actively sends out light. The closer you are to the model, the more pronounced the effect is. I did try it without the reflector at various distances (both ring to model and model to background) and could never get the effect as well as when I used the reflector, so I kept it.

Dan Howell wrote:
That would be correct except for the fact that you are forgetting that when you increase the size of the light source, the '9 o'clock' side is now also out further and filling in a greater of shadow area on it's own side of the subject while the same thing is happening on the '3 o'clock' side.

No its not. Light doesn't bend, so all the 9 o'clock side can get is the same straight on fill it was getting before. (If the reflector itself were getting larger in diameter, you'd be correct). As the reflector gets closer to the model, and the shadow increases, the shadow area is darker because its getting half the light hitting it from the 3 o'clock side, it can't get any more fill from the 9 o'clock side.

In your use of the ringlight, on those dresss, you do want a small spectral light source to make the jewels glisten, but you also have other lights working on the background to clean up any telltale shadows. I don't use anything back there if I want to see the graphic shadow.

Andy Pearlman

curvacionphoto wrote:
Whats the best battery ring flash for a Nikon D200?

It doesn't matter what camera you're on, as long as the ringflash fits and fires, the effect will be the same regardless of camera brand/model, you just point the lens through the ring. I've used the Profoto (which I used to rent) on various Nikon cameras (film: FM2, F4, F100, digital D70, D2X), and my Mamiya RZ system, as well as my new Canons, which I now use with the Hensel.

Andy Pearlman

Brian Doherty wrote:
cool, so ill stay away from that, i'm def looking to use it for portrait and glam work... also i'd like to try it out at a club photographing a dj

don't use any flash photographing live dj performance or live music.

you'll need a fast lens