Michael Pandolfo wrote:
I'm trying to do a little research on rigging a DIY portable power unit for strobes (similar to the AB Vagabond) and determining whether it's worth it vs. purchasing the $499 Vagabond.

...

You also need to verify that your lights will work with this sort of system.

Monolights typically have very high, momentary, power needs.  It isn't unusual for a monolight to pull 8 amps for a second or so while it is recycling. (This is a peak of over 800 watts per light)

Many inverters can't power this sort of load.  They are unable to provide that much current at 120 Volts.

The Vagabond system does not shut down when it starts to get overloaded.  Instead it reduces the output voltage, which reduces the power available to the monolights.

Alien Bee (and White Lightning) monolights are designed to continue to operate under these low voltage conditions.  They take longer to recycle, but they continue to work.


If you have another brand of light, you either need to make sure they can handle low voltage conditions, or you need to get an inverter powerful enough to handle the peak load.


-Michael

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
I keep hearing Marine Battery but wonder why that's preferred. Surely the Vagabond isn't a marine battery at that weight.

"Marine Battery" implies that the battery is designed for deeper discharge cycles than standard automotive batteries.  Discharged lead-acid batteries suffer from "sulfation" -- basically lead sulfate precipitating out of the electrolyte and depositing onto the battery plates.  It quickly kills the battery's efficiency, since the lead sulfate doesn't readily dissolve back into the electrolyte -- it just sits on the plates and gets in the way.  Marine batteries and most of the compact sealed lead acid (SLA) batteries have been designed in such a way that they're less susceptible to this than automotive batteries (but you still want to keep them charged up as much as possible).

For your purposes, a car battery is probably not a good choice.  Either the marine battery or the other SLAs you mentioned should be OK.

-Brian

Full Frame Photography wrote:
i took Brandon Ching's advice and got a Tronix Explorer, it's wonderful. and only $250.00, no assembly required

Got one myself. Nice unit.

Colegrove Photography wrote:
Honda, Gas, Generator.

Expensive, permit. But lots of constant current

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
I'm trying to do a little research on rigging a DIY portable power unit for strobes (similar to the AB Vagabond) and determining whether it's worth it vs. purchasing the $499 Vagabond.

Here's what I've come up with:

Inverter

Samlex 300W 12V Pure Sine Wave Inverter - $148.00 (4 lbs)
http://store.altenergystore.com/Inverte … ter/p1044/

Battery Options
Universal Battery UB12180 12V 18AH (Sealed Lead Acid AGM) - $61.50 (14 lbs)
http://www.batteryweb.com/ub_slavrla-de … UB-12180NB

or...

Optima D34M Blue Top (Marine Battery) - $228.00 (44 lbs!)
http://www.1st-optima-batteries.com/blu … attery.asp

I keep hearing Marine Battery but wonder why that's preferred. Surely the Vagabond isn't a marine battery at that weight.

Also, what additional equipment would be needed? Battery to Inverter Cables? What type of charger?

Any help and opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Save the money on the battery. You don't need an Optima. If you need monster amounts of capacity, then a car battery is plenty. Sulfation occurs when the battery is discharged too far, so spend $10 on a generic multimeter, check the voltage every once in a while when shooting, and call it quits when the voltage drops below 12V (or just watch the recycle times). Buy multiple batteries if needed, but I really don't think it's practical spending $200+ on an Optima.

E6 Photo wrote:
"Marine Battery" implies that the battery is designed for deeper discharge cycles than standard automotive batteries.  Discharged lead-acid batteries suffer from "sulfation" -- basically lead sulfate precipitating out of the electrolyte and depositing onto the battery plates.  It quickly kills the battery's efficiency, since the lead sulfate doesn't readily dissolve back into the electrolyte -- it just sits on the plates and gets in the way.  Marine batteries and most of the compact sealed lead acid (SLA) batteries have been designed in such a way that they're less susceptible to this than automotive batteries (but you still want to keep them charged up as much as possible).

For your purposes, a car battery is probably not a good choice.  Either the marine battery or the other SLAs you mentioned should be OK.

-Brian

Or you could just watch the voltage to keep it from discharging too far, much cheaper

BlindMike wrote:

Or you could just watch the voltage to keep it from discharging too far, much cheaper

That could work. I see two downsides to this plan:
(1) Battery voltage is related to charge, but the relationship isn't nearly as simple as you'd like. It's not totally simple to judge what's happening with the chemistry from a voltmeter reading.
(2) He needs to carry around enough battery capacity to do the job. The amount of charge a battery can hold is proportional to its weight. To keep the battery healthy, he'll have to quit shooting when there's still a substantial charge stored in the battery...so he'll be carrying a lot of weight around with him that isn't providing any benefit for firing the strobes. A battery that can handle deeper cycling will be more expensive, but it won't be as heavy.  He'll have to analyze his budget vs. back strength to make the tradeoff

-Brian

Full Frame Photography wrote:
i took Brandon Ching's advice and got a Tronix Explorer, it's wonderful. and only $250.00, no assembly required

ditto

E6 Photo wrote:
That could work. I see two downsides to this plan:
(1) Battery voltage is related to charge, but the relationship isn't nearly as simple as you'd like. It's not totally simple to judge what's happening with the chemistry from a voltmeter reading.

True to a point, but for this application, since the discharge is not continuous with plenty of relaxation time, the voltage is a pretty good indication of the state of charge of the battery.  In order to know the chemistry inside the battery at all time you would have to run EIS (ElectroImpedance Spectroscopy), which is impractical.

(2) He needs to carry around enough battery capacity to do the job. The amount of charge a battery can hold is proportional to its weight. To keep the battery healthy, he'll have to quit shooting when there's still a substantial charge stored in the battery...so he'll be carrying a lot of weight around with him that isn't providing any benefit for firing the strobes. A battery that can handle deeper cycling will be more expensive, but it won't be as heavy.  He'll have to analyze his budget vs. back strength to make the tradeoff

For the same chemistry, yes.  Deep cycle battery works better in this case simply because it can tolerate more deep discharge, unlike most "normal" auto batteries.  Most auto batteries cannot be deep discharged, or it would cause irreversible capacity fade.

Lumigraphics wrote:
Don't forget the most important DYI component- circuit breakers! I'm an electrician...you wouldn't believe how much damage electricity can do if something goes wrong.

Safety first!

The Samlex inverter has a built in 40 amp fuse which serves as a circuit breaker. I keep a spare taped to the inside. I also wire a spike to the ground wire which I stake into the ground for outdoor use.

Gary Davis wrote:
Did you get my reply to you message Michael?

No...wasn't sure if you were around so I posted. Could you resend? I'd welcome any input.

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
At this point I'm only looking to power 2 AB 800's. Ok so I think I've narrowed down the choices based on everybody's input:

True Sine Wave Inverter
Samlex 300W 12V Pure Sine Wave Inverter - $148.00

Battery
12V 18AH SLA Battery - $34.95

Charger
Battery Tender Plus 12V 1.25 Amp - $45.95

Cables
Battery to Inverter Cables 14-16 gauge (no idea about price of these...still looking). Since it will be a "close" setup in one bag, the distance will be short.

The Alternative Energy Store sells these cables but they're listed at around $70...seemed quite high just for a 2 foot cable (they're actually 5 foot which is quite more than I would need). Possibly an auto parts store might also have these?

The inverter comes with cables. I can't remember exactly, but I think they're 12ga. If you don't have plans to use the cable with anything else, then cut off the alligator clips, trim it down to length, and put some connectors on so you can attach to the battery (auto parts store or Radio Shack will have the connectors).

Or just pick up some 14ga cable at the store. No need to pay $70 for a 12 inch run or whatever you need.

Full Frame Photography wrote:
i took Brandon Ching's advice and got a Tronix Explorer, it's wonderful. and only $250.00, no assembly required

Does this unit come with a charger and all necessary accessories?

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
No...wasn't sure if you were around so I posted. Could you resend? I'd welcome any input.

Bah, MM probably choked on it because it was so long   I'll just paste it here for everyone.  Pretty much the same thing Prizo said though, he covered it pretty well.

BTW, are you using AB or WL strobes or another brand?

Alien Bee's makes a big deal about their inverter being pure sine wave and current limiting. This is key to being able to use a low power inverter with the AB strobes. Most of the other inexpensive inverters available are not current limiting and can damage the strobe (or will just blow the fuse). To use a non-currently limiting inverter you need one rated for quite a bit of power to handle the recharge surge.

Regarding the Samlex unit specifically, there has been a lot of discussion about it on various forums. I'm not offering any guarantee, but as far as I can tell it is nearly identical to the AB unit except for the lack of a ground lug. In fact, I suspect either Samlux is the supplier for AB, or they both use the same supplier. The ground lug provides additional safety since the strobes use every high voltages which can present a danger if there is any sort of damage or fault in the strobe, but it isn't necessary for the strobes to function and there is no danger if the strobes are in good working order. Using a wireless sync helps reduce some of the danger as well. Even though I have the AB unit with the ground lug, I rarely use it but you should be aware of the issue.

According to AB, any 12V lead-acid battery rated above some number of AH will work. I don't remember the exact number but I'm sure it's less than 15 AH (I think I'm currently using an 11 AH battery). Marine or "deep cycle" batteries are recommended because they perform better when frequently drained. Normal lead-acid batteries don't like to be drained down, they like to be constantly charged and only drained slightly, i.e. car batteries which provide a small burst of energy to start the car then are charging the whole time you're driving. Either type will work, but the marine or deep cycle should work better. The battery I have I think is for a computer UPS unit. It acts like it's dead even when it's been sitting on the charger for an extended period of time and only gives a few pops. I have to go through a few cycles of discharging a little and recharging before it behaves.

The Optima has a lot more juice than the Universal, but they will both work. You'll get more pops out of the Optima. The AH rating tells you how much energy the battery can store which is directly related to how long it will last. My missbehaving 11AH battery just about holds up enough for me to do a sunset shoot with one AB1600, maybe 100 full power pops. The Universal is 18AH and the Optima is 55AH so you can see the optima has considerably more energy and should last quite a bit longer all else being equal.

The inverter, battery, charger, cable from the battery to the inverter is about all you need. If you plan to use more than one strobe at the same time (or more than two with the vagabond 300) you'll need something like a power strip. And something to pack all the stuff up together.

You do realize that the vagabond 300 is the same as the 150 but with two inverters instead of one? All the 300 does is reduce the recycle time with 2 or more strobes. If you're just using 1 strobe the extra inverter does nothing for you. The 300W Samlux should be faster with one strobe than the 150 though. But if you can deal with an extra second or two of recycle time the 150 is fine. I have the vagabond 150 and it recycles one AB1600 at full power in about 4 seconds.

Hope that helps.

BlindMike wrote:
The inverter comes with cables. I can't remember exactly, but I think they're 12ga. If you don't have plans to use the cable with anything else, then cut off the alligator clips, trim it down to length, and put some connectors on so you can attach to the battery (auto parts store or Radio Shack will have the connectors).

Or just pick up some 14ga cable at the store. No need to pay $70 for a 12 inch run.

Excellent. Good to know. I did think it was odd that the inverter wouldn't include cables.

Gary Davis wrote:
The 300W Samlux should be faster with one strobe than the 150 though. But if you can deal with an extra second or two of recycle time the 150 is fine. I have the vagabond 150 and it recycles one AB1600 at full power in about 4 seconds.

Hope that helps.

You answered my next question. The benefits of the 300W vs the 150W when using 2 AB 1600's. I think the battery I listed was 18AH.

Gary Davis wrote:
Pretty much the same thing Prizo said though, he covered it pretty well.

Source (with pictures and plenty of discussion) -
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. … e=21173329

BlindMike wrote:
Source (with pictures and plenty of discussion) -
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. … e=21173329

Well what do you know.  Credit where credit was due would have been nice.  Mine was written off the top of my head and not cut and pasted

BlindMike wrote:

Source (with pictures and plenty of discussion) -
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. … e=21173329

Excellent info

prizo wrote:
The functional components are a true sine wave inverter, a sealed lead acid battery, and a charger. You want to make sure that you're using a true sine wave inverter. Cheaper modified sine wave inverters don't put out clean power. If you use a modified inverter with your strobes, you'll run the risk of either misfiring or frying your equipment. Blown caps smell bad.
The Vagabond uses this -
http://www.samlexamerica.com/... .../productdescription.asp?ProductsID=7013

http://store.altenergystore.com/... .../p1043/

It's a 150W Samlex. They're cheap, but anyone that uses the Vagabond can tell you that the 150W continuous current can be limiting for recycle times especially for more powerful units (AB1600, X3200). I strongly recommend stepping up to the 300W Samlex. It's not that much more expensive, and 300W continuous will cut down your recycle times.

http://store.altenergystore.com/... .../p1044/
If you have a Fry's Electronics locally, they'll have them for $130.

Next you need a 12V battery. Sealed lead acid is cheap so it's the most economical way to go. The higher the AH rating, the longer it'll last and the heavier it'll be. It's up to you to figure out what the best compromise is for weight vs battery life. The Vagabond uses a 15AH battery. In testing I've found that it's best to stay above 10AH at a bare minimum. If you need them shipped, either one of these would work -
http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=SLA-12V12

http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=SLA-12V18

If you need something more heavy duty and don't mind the weight, then pick up a motorcycle or car battery at your local auto shop. Another good place to check locally would be a hobby shop.

There are plenty of options for battery chargers. If you want to prolong the life of your battery, then go with a "smart" multistage charger. They adjust according to what charging stage your battery is in, and they're safe to leave plugged in to maintain storage charge. The Battery Tender is a solid unit, and it's international.
http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p … 0139-DL-UK

Then again, SLA batteries are cheap and life span is 3 years max. If you have more than 1 battery to charge at a time, going with cheaper chargers might be a more practical route.
http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=ACC-12BC1000D-1

I'd avoid fast chargers though.

Here's a simplified overview of SLA charging -
http://www.rcbatteryclinic.com/lead.html

After that, all that's left is to wire everything up and find something to store it in. Your local auto or electronic shop will have all the cables and connectors you need. Wire gauge from your battery to your inverter will depend on the length of the run. If it's short then you don't need anything super heavy duty - 14-16ga will be fine. For smaller capacity batteries, 1/4" spade connectors (.250) will fit the battery terminals. Bigger capacity batteries will have ring terminals. It all depends on what you go with, but it's not hard to find.

NEC requires a ground circuit. Local and state laws will vary, but the reason the Vagabond comes with a ground is a CYA. The Samlex instruction manual will show you where to attach a ground cable on the inverter chassis. Your auto store has ground cables and spikes for sale. Then again, it's probably a good idea to avoid using faulty cabling and equipment in the first place.

Toolboxes work great for storage. Walmart has a 22" plastic Black & Decker for under $10. Anything will work as long as it's sturdy and waterproof (though I do recommend plastic in order to avoid shorting anything if your cables come loose).

This is what mine looked like when I got done. The wiring's a little different because I used 5AH batteries in parallel. I also used fast disconnects for everything to make swapping batteries and plugging in chargers easier. They sell them at Fry's.

Wow, taken straight from DPreview.  Thanks Virtual Mike!

Michael Pandolfo wrote:

Does this unit come with a charger and all necessary accessories?

Accessories? Comes with the unit, A/C plug for charging, and car adapter for charging via cigg lighter. What more do you need?

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
How would the Tronix Explorer compare to the setup with the 300W Samlex and 18AH Universal battery? Let's use 2 AB 1600's just for reference.

No comparison. The Tronix is 150W like the single inverter Vagabond. Not sure of the battery capacity of the Tronix but I have read the Vagabond batteries last longer from several reports I've seen. The Tronix is comparable to AlienBees' V150.. it lasts a bit shorter, but is also cheaper.

A 300W Samlex and 18AH battery will outlast the V300, which will recycle faster than the V150, which will outlast the Tronix.

Brandon Ching wrote:
A 300W Samlex and 18AH battery will outlast the V300, which will recycle faster than the V150, which will outlast the Tronix.

Well said. After reading the Tronix review I was less than impressed. Thanks.

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
Charger
Battery Tender Plus 12V 1.25 Amp - $45.95

You might want to rethink the 1.25 amp charger. It'll take a very long time to charge the battery. 1.25 amp is really only good for maintenance charge. I use a Vector 2/6/10 charger. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=p … 6-VEC1087B

For full size car batteries, start at 10 amps. For lawn mower batteries, start at 6 amps. For smaller batteries, start at 2 amps. It automatically reduces the amps as the charge gets full. Of course, this also serve to charge your car battery.

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
I'm trying to do a little research on rigging a DIY portable power unit for strobes (similar to the AB Vagabond) and determining whether it's worth it vs. purchasing the $499 Vagabond.

Here's what I've come up with:

Inverter

Samlex 300W 12V Pure Sine Wave Inverter - $148.00 (4 lbs)
http://store.altenergystore.com/Inverte … ter/p1044/

Battery Options
Universal Battery UB12180 12V 18AH (Sealed Lead Acid AGM) - $61.50 (14 lbs)
http://www.batteryweb.com/ub_slavrla-de … UB-12180NB

or...

Optima D34M Blue Top (Marine Battery) - $228.00 (44 lbs!)
http://www.1st-optima-batteries.com/blu … attery.asp

I keep hearing Marine Battery but wonder why that's preferred. Surely the Vagabond isn't a marine battery at that weight.

Also, what additional equipment would be needed? Battery to Inverter Cables? What type of charger?

Any help and opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Marine battery last the longest, think about how large the ocean is? If you are out there you want something that works and lasts. Heavy duty!